Whats the best Barbarian/Rogue MC strategy?

[prototype00]

Now, we are all aware that the Barbarian Rogue Multiclass has some pretty good synergies, which can be distilled mostly to as follows:

1. Infinite Sneak Attack: With the Barbarians Reckless Attack giving you Advantage against your foes (at a price), the Rogue can Sneak attack a whole lot more effectively, with Rage providing the protection that you will need to survive any counterattacks (resist physical, and almost everything with the bear totem). Barbarians also get that really useful extra attack at 5th level, making a 15 Rog/5 Bar a very damaging opponent (with 8d6 sneak attack on basically every attack). You do have to use a Finesse weapon however, but dual shortswords/rapiers or shield and rapier are a good combo anyway.

2. Grapple master: Now Rogues get expertise, which means that they can add double a proficiency mod to a skill check, and barbarians get advantage on any strength skill check they make while raging. This basically means that they get a massive bonus+advantage on grapple checks - i.e. you can grapple most things. Throw in shield master and you can Shove as a bonus action (once again a strength check that gets advantage and double proficiency bonus), so most enemies end up grappled and prone, which is basically death if your party gangs up on them. Now this can get even crazier if you have access to Enlarge person via either the Arcane Trickster Rogue subclass or various racial abilities like the Duregars.

I was just wondering which one was better, or if there was some way to harmoniously synchronize both approaches, what say you, board?

prototype00

[JellyPooga]

It kind of depends on what level you're starting and/or playing to. If starting at level 1, then going Barbarian at 1st for Rage, followed by Rogue 2 for Cunning Action (it's all sorts of useful; trust me, you want it sooner rather than later) is a great start and hella fun, whatever direction you go from there.

After that, there's some decisions to be made. Barbarian 5 is essential for the "grappler" build; Extra Attack lets you take advantage of being able to knock foes prone followed by a Sneak Attack while they're down. On the flipside, advancing Rogue will get you your first Feat sooner, so unless you go V.Human for the bonus Feat, you may want to go this route to get Shield Master online ASAP.

I'd advise against Arcane Trickster; Rage prevents you from concentrating on any self-buffs, so your spells are going to be utility or fire-and-forget only. Both Thief and Assassin are good choices though; the former for wrecking furniture with Fast Hands and the latter for the auto-crit.

[prototype00]

It kind of depends on what level you're starting and/or playing to. If starting at level 1, then going Barbarian at 1st for Rage, followed by Rogue 2 for Cunning Action (it's all sorts of useful; trust me, you want it sooner rather than later) is a great start and hella fun, whatever direction you go from there.

Hmm, I'd probably stick for Barbarian until Extra action personally. Makes for a more survivable start.


After that, there's some decisions to be made. Barbarian 5 is essential for the "grappler" build; Extra Attack lets you take advantage of being able to knock foes prone followed by a Sneak Attack while they're down. On the flipside, advancing Rogue will get you your first Feat sooner, so unless you go V.Human for the bonus Feat, you may want to go this route to get Shield Master online ASAP.

I'd advise against Arcane Trickster; Rage prevents you from concentrating on any self-buffs, so your spells are going to be utility or fire-and-forget only. Both Thief and Assassin are good choices though; the former for wrecking furniture with Fast Hands and the latter for the auto-crit.

Yeah, I think the extra feat from vHuman is a bit hard to pass up. And the thing about grappling is you always need one hand free to maintain it (so you have to go captain America unarmed and shield if you want to have a good knockdown or you could go rapier/shield and the Thief subclass to rapidly sheathe and pull out a rapier with fast hands?)

For the sneak attack all the time build, you could either tank it up with shield + rapier or go straight TWF with either rapier or shortswords.

Either way, grapple doesn't play at all well with twf, unfortunately. Hmm...

prototype00

[djreynolds]

I would want at least 5 rogue for uncanny dodge to help offset reckless attack

The key is to be happy in medium armor, breast plate & 14 dex, is 16AC and is the same as chainmail and you can still stealth.

IMO, place a 14 in dex and leave it. And never worry about MAM, its too expensive

And I would grab a non-human, darkvision for a rogue is important.

If you just want to mess it up in melee, I prefer this build


http://burrowowl.net/2014/10/the-5e-savage-duelist/

Its a rogue, fighter, barbarian

[Sans.]

6th of Barbarian is nice for Bear Totem. You get double carrying potential and advantage on pushes, drags or lifts. Pretty nice for a grappler. You can only Sneak Attack once per turn, so the Extra Attack isn't that amazing, but on a grappler you can replace it with a grapple check, so it's awesome for that.

[JNAProductions]

Rogue 18/Barb 2 is good. Reckless Attack with Elusive means no penalty.

[Arnie82]

Mountain Dwarf Barbarian / Rogue is really fun. You can get 16STR/14DEX/16CON and you really don't have to worry about armor at all. There is almost no wrong way to built, as long as you get to a 5/5 split by level 10. I would only ever push strength and constitution. I wouldn't worry too much about feats too much.

[JNAProductions]

Rogue 18/Barb 2 is good. Reckless Attack with Elusive means no penalty.

To add onto that, I'd go Rogue 18 first, then add on Barbarian levels. You get 2 rages and Unarmored Defense instead of an ASI, and Reckless Attack (AKA permanent advantage at no penalty on every melee attack ever) for your capstone.

[Xetheral]

To maximize the synergies between the classes, don't forget to consider the other abilities the classes grant. In particular, Unarmored Defense, while often providing a bit less AC than Medium Armor, has the non-combat benefit of opening up a vast range of potential disguises and subterfuges. You can maximize that by taking Deception as your other Expertise skill.

You can even go all-out and pick up Tavern Brawler too... now you don't need any weapons OR armor. Dress like a civilian. Scream in terror or whimper and cry when a fight breaks out, and civilized enemies will likely ignore you (or even try to protect you). Get yourself in an advantageous position (preferably by a leader or a spellcaster), take out/grab a table knife/screwdriver/pen (or anything else your DM rules to be an improvised dagger) and go to town. (Intimidation proficiency would also be appropriate, to help maximize the morale impact on the enemy of your sudden switch from noncombatant to bloodthirsty-weasel-with-a-screwdriver.)

Tavern Brawler lets you attack and grapple in the same turn (although not on the same round you rage), so you're in good shape even before you get Extra Attack. A Barbarian 2/Rogue 1 VHuman with Tavern Brawler already has all the key features of this build, and after that you can simply take levels to taste.

Caveat: this build is wasted in campaigns revolving around mindless or monstrous foes.

[Naanomi]

This isn't the 'best' but I had a lot of fun with a half-Orc Rogue (Assassin) 3/Barbarian (totem) 17... scouting ahead, getting those surprise attack rounds in with auto-critical Great Axe attacks but then having the HP to stay up while the party caught up... the sneaky Barbarian instead of the angry Rogue in focus

[Specter]

Barbarian works well especially if you are STR focused; the Rage attack bonus is better than it seems. But a DEX build is cool too; if you max DEX and CON you'll have 22AC with a shield.

With you resisting physical damage (Rage) and area damage (Evasion), the next step is to reinforce your mental abilities (Resilient WIS or Mindless Rage from Frenzy).

[JellyPooga]

Hmm, I'd probably stick for Barbarian until Extra action personally. Makes for a more survivable start.

Don't underestimate Cunning Action; it gets you where you need to be, when you you need to be there (whether that be up in someones grill or far far away from something nasty!).


Yeah, I think the extra feat from vHuman is a bit hard to pass up.

V.Human is good, but don't jump just yet. As has been mentioned, Darkvision is very handy and other Races offer some very nice things;

- the Con/Wis bump and extra HP of Hill Dwarf is very nice for a Barb/Rogue, not to mention the Poison Resistance.

- Halfling may not seem like an intuitive choice, but the restriction on heavy weapons isn't so bad when you're using a Rapier for Sneak Attack anyway and Halfling Luck can get you out of scrapes when you totally fluff a roll (and you'll be making lots of those!).

[GlenSmash!]

UA Scout Rogue would be my favorite on a Rogue/Barb. I think I'd go Bear totem on the Barb side.

[suplee215]

I would honesty go a shieldmaster set that allows you to shove the enemy as a bonus action and then get sneak attack. wish you could a third arm to grapple but o well, can't have everything.

[smcmike]

Half Orc - good stats & darkvison.

Barbarian 5/Rogue 15 - two attacks and lots of sneak attack dice.

You definitely want to start with barbarian. The full 12 hitpoints at first level is huge, but it isn't the only reason. If you start with rogue, you don't get medium armor proficiency. Also, con saving throw is nice - you'll get evasion and advantage on most DEX saves anyways.

For feats, shieldmaster is the obvious. Sentinel seems pretty awesome too. Otherwise, strength and constitution.

[Scathain]

Don't underestimate Cunning Action; it gets you where you need to be, when you you need to be there (whether that be up in someones grill or far far away from something nasty!).



V.Human is good, but don't jump just yet. As has been mentioned, Darkvision is very handy and other Races offer some very nice things;

- the Con/Wis bump and extra HP of Hill Dwarf is very nice for a Barb/Rogue, not to mention the Poison Resistance.

- Halfling may not seem like an intuitive choice, but the restriction on heavy weapons isn't so bad when you're using a Rapier for Sneak Attack anyway and Halfling Luck can get you out of scrapes when you totally fluff a roll (and you'll be making lots of those!).

See this is why I wish they just gave Tritons darkvision. Luckily, my DM does, because Triton Barb / Swashbuckler is a fun build 10/10 would recommend.