A lich having clone of himself from living time, dying and being alive again?

[Sordahon]

Possible? "Hey after that hundreds of years of magic study I want some vacation, let's become human again and go do some lewd things", and can Lich shapechange into living and stay that way a bit to eat food and bang girls?

[Crake]

Possible? "Hey after that hundreds of years of magic study I want some vacation, let's become human again and go do some lewd things", and can Lich shapechange into living and stay that way a bit to eat food and bang girls?

yes and yes

Though if he uses the clone method, he has to properly be destroyed as a lich, meaning destroying his phylactery, and then if he wants to go back to being a lich, he has to go through the whole process of becoming a lich again. Much easier to just go with the polymorph option. He can just use polymorph any object for a decent duration living form, depending on what he picks he might even be able to make it permanent until dismissed/dispelled, letting him go on vacation for as long as he wants.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

That said, having an additional layer of life insurance via a handful of clones stashed in various locations seems like a wise investment for a Lich on the go. Why hang your immortality on one phylactery when you can engineer a return to life upon its destruction?

Honestly, I'd just make sure I had the needed components for the Lich ritual prepared before I left for my vacation. No sense having to quest while mortal to regain my immortality.

[J-H]

Clone carries a clause about aging.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm
"If the original creature has reached the end of its natural life span (that is, it has died of natural causes), any cloning attempt fails."

Of course, then the question is "Would a creature who spent 40 years as a human and 500 years as a lich count as a 40 year old human, or a 540 year old human?"

I suspect that the answer to that will be up to DM interpretation.

[cullynthedwarf]

Either that or you now have the best idea for a re-occuring villain.

[rel]

It works and is a great way of explaining why every lich you meet is an incompetent moron who thinks putting its phylactry in a force chest and carrying it around is a good idea.

The competent lich is sitting in town under a permanent effect of polymorph any object doing business, magical research, item crafting and occasionally sending the PC's out on quests. Competent lich is not a fun encounter.

The incompetent lich lives in a crypt, wears clothes from Goth Emporiyum and enjoys monologuing. Incompetent lich is a fun encounter.

The in world reason why the party always encounter incompetent lich is simple; competent lich doesn't live in a dungeon.

[Hackulator]

Clone carries a clause about aging.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm
"If the original creature has reached the end of its natural life span (that is, it has died of natural causes), any cloning attempt fails."

Of course, then the question is "Would a creature who spent 40 years as a human and 500 years as a lich count as a 40 year old human, or a 540 year old human?"

I suspect that the answer to that will be up to DM interpretation.

A lich has not died of natural causes.

[Crake]

A lich has not died of natural causes.

To be fair though, if you're counting the time of becoming a lich as the time of death, then living as an undead for too long will leave you unable to be resurrected, due to the 10 years/CL limitation. You'll either have to do it regularly, or have an item of gentle repose that you never take off.

[ryu]

For all of you going on about death by aging you can literally just use reincarnate to reset your timer. Even in a human lifetime earning the money to pay someone to cast it isn't hard.

[Crake]

For all of you going on about death by aging you can literally just use reincarnate to reset your timer. Even in a human lifetime earning the money to pay someone to cast it isn't hard.

Except reincarnate only works within a week of death, plus reincarnate doesn't work on creatures that have died and been turned into undead.

[ryu]

Except reincarnate only works within a week of death, plus reincarnate doesn't work on creatures that have died and been turned into undead.

Which is why you regularly turn back to normal near your reincarnate caster, die of old age, and proceed to get reset. You have at least several decades for intervals. Calm down.

[Crake]

Which is why you regularly turn back to normal near your reincarnate caster, die of old age, and proceed to get reset. You have at least several decades for intervals. Calm down.

Doubling up on the level loss each time? I feel like that's not particularly necessary, since undead don't age. What's even the point.

[Necroticplague]

Possible?
No.

(provided that the soul is free and willing to return)
A lich's soul is not free, since it's contained in it's phylactery.
and

The clone is physically identical with the original
So, even if a Lich could use a Clone, the clone would be physically identical to the lich: still undead.

"Hey after that hundreds of years of magic study I want some vacation, let's become human again and go do some lewd things", and can Lich shapechange into living and stay that way a bit to eat food and bang girls?
Sure, why wouldn't they? Most Polymorph effects have durations so short as to render this somewhat impractical, though, unless made as a continuous item (such as a Skin of the Proteus).

[ryu]

Doubling up on the level loss each time? I feel like that's not particularly necessary, since undead don't age. What's even the point.

I don't think you fully understand the phrase several decade interval, or thought bottle for that matter.

[Mordaedil]

A lich's soul is not free, since it's contained in it's phylactery.
and
Makes sense to me.



So, even if a Lich could use a Clone, the clone would be physically identical to the lich: still undead.
Makes a lot of sense as well. Heck, I'd even argue since that you'd use Clone to copy your dead-weight body, you'd only clone a soul-less copy of your own corpse, while you'd still only have a soul tied to the phylactary. And any attempt to clone the soul or phylactary itself just creates an empty phylactary.

[Fouredged Sword]

Interestingly enough, there is nothing preventing a Lich who has been using gentle repose from casting clone on themselves AFTER their transformation. The flesh expressly does not need to be fresh, only prevented from rotting.

I would still have them come back without the lich template, but it should work.

I wonder if one could PAO a bit of you into a non-rotted bit of you to use for those who forgot to gentle repose?

[Crake]

A lich's soul is not free, since it's contained in it's phylactery.

I'm pretty sure the OP meant that if his phylactery and his lich form were destroyed, essentially "killing" him for good. In that case his phylactery would no longer hold his soul and he would be able to return to life.


So, even if a Lich could use a Clone, the clone would be physically identical to the lich: still undead.


Interestingly enough, there is nothing preventing a Lich who has been using gentle repose from casting clone on themselves AFTER their transformation. The flesh expressly does not need to be fresh, only prevented from rotting.

I would still have them come back without the lich template, but it should work.

Incorrect, the clone spell specifically requires a piece of flesh from the original creature's living body, so a lich could not create a clone of himself as a lich, nor could he create a clone of his living form after becoming a lich. He would have to have taken the flesh sample before he died, then kept it from rotting, until wanting to cast the clone spell.


I wonder if one could PAO a bit of you into a non-rotted bit of you to use for those who forgot to gentle repose?

You could potentially polymorph yourself into a living version of yourself an harvest the flesh you needed then, since technically for the duration of the polymorph spell, you are considered living.

[Nibbens]

Clone carries a clause about aging.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm
"If the original creature has reached the end of its natural life span (that is, it has died of natural causes), any cloning attempt fails."

Of course, then the question is "Would a creature who spent 40 years as a human and 500 years as a lich count as a 40 year old human, or a 540 year old human?"

I suspect that the answer to that will be up to DM interpretation.

The argument around this point has been rendered somewhat moot if your DM considers things from APs, as viable material for your game.

In RoTRL, (I didn't see a PF tag, but things are comparable across systems) Veraxis (sp), has discovered modified clone spell that allows him to prolong is life indefinitely. Essentially, it just removes that "natural causes" clause from the Clone spell. It's a ninth level spell and there's a lot of fluff about the PCs destroying the spell or keeping it secret because if word gets out that this thing exists wizards will be hunting them for for all of their lives. And when all the worlds wizards come after a group of 4 or 5... well, you get it.