Gun-wielding druid: could it work?

[Ellrin]

I've been considering making a ranged druid for a little while, and this crack-fueled idea somehow managed to worm its way into my head. I don't really have a specific build idea, since I'm not super familiar with the way guns work in Pathfinder, but I was sort of thinking a nature fang Druid with a 1-level dip into spellslinger Wizard might just be able to get the bare essentials for gunplay at reasonable levels—with slayer talents, I should be able to get most of the important combat feats by level 7 or 9, I think, and TWF and dual-wielding revolvers, using Deadly Aim and Studied Target, should net me some decent damage, even if I don't get any ability mods as bonus.

I'm learning towards druidic herbalism over a domain or animal companion for the extra utility and free potions, counting on dealing some okay damage in combat myself to make up for the loss of the domain slot or my companion's potential damage, but primarily functioning as a full caster.

As for race, maybe Strix or another flier to help keep out of reach since nature fang gives up wildshape, though I suppose a flying companion and staying mounted will probably let me full attack more often.

Any suggestions for improvements or changes? Or is a gun-toting treehugger just not a good option?

Oh, and just to confirm I'm actually reading it right, the spellslinger's ACFs do work with divine spells, right? I don't see anything limiting it to wizard spells, or even arcane spells, despite names like "arcane gun" and "mage bullet."

[Geddy2112]

Druid and gunslinger can work really well-I played in a pf game with commonplace firearms as a rule, so gunslingers got Dex to damage at level one. My urban druid then took a rank in gunslinger and it served him fairly well. At higher levels the gun was more a show piece and backup, but I used gunsligner dodge a fair amount.

I would avoid going spellslinger and just go gunslinger- the spellslinger can cast through guns which is cool, but burning 4 schools of magic is not. Likewise, you can still wear medium and heavy armor with decent dexterity, and better to have that than none at all. There are several druid spells that are ranged touch attacks, and while you can cast those through your gun, it is not like it adds that much more oomph. Certainly cool though.

Going nature fang is a good idea, since you can't use a gun while wildshaped, and guns are not for melee brute beatstick shifters anyways. You will still in large be a druid, but instead of falling back on a sling you can whip out a six shooter and go to town when you don't have any spells to cast. I would probably keep a domain for more casting, but herbalism is not the worst choice.

The build is basically SAD, as you only need wisdom and dexterity, being able to safely dump charisma/strength, and while you don't dump con it is not a huge deal. Intelligence only being important if you want a lot of skills. If you go wizard you still only need an INT of 11/12, as you are only casting first level spells, have no cantrips, and have 4 opposition schools.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

There is the problem of guns being made of metal and thus banned for use by Druids. However, you could play a bolt ace to bypass that. I would also recommend VMC Fighter or Unchained Barbarian, since Druid doesn't require that many feats to function and you could use the To-hit bonus

[Goaty14]

Who hasn't suggested ironwood yet?

[Ellrin]

There is the problem of guns being made of metal and thus banned for use by Druids. However, you could play a bolt ace to bypass that. I would also recommend VMC Fighter or Unchained Barbarian, since Druid doesn't require that many feats to function and you could use the To-hit bonus

Aren't Pathfinder druids only barred from using metal armor, not weapons?

[druid91]

Aren't Pathfinder druids only barred from using metal armor, not weapons?

Yep. Same as 3.5 was. Druids have always been able to use metal weapons. Just not armor or shields.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Huh, TIL. Always thought that was another thing they gave Rangers thinking it was an advantage

[Psyren]

I'd personally go with slings rather than guns. Druids are natively proficient, it's a bit more fitting thematically, and slings got a lot of support in PF.

[Ellrin]

Druid and gunslinger can work really well-I played in a pf game with commonplace firearms as a rule, so gunslingers got Dex to damage at level one. My urban druid then took a rank in gunslinger and it served him fairly well. At higher levels the gun was more a show piece and backup, but I used gunsligner dodge a fair amount.

I would avoid going spellslinger and just go gunslinger- the spellslinger can cast through guns which is cool, but burning 4 schools of magic is not. Likewise, you can still wear medium and heavy armor with decent dexterity, and better to have that than none at all. There are several druid spells that are ranged touch attacks, and while you can cast those through your gun, it is not like it adds that much more oomph. Certainly cool though.

Going nature fang is a good idea, since you can't use a gun while wildshaped, and guns are not for melee brute beatstick shifters anyways. You will still in large be a druid, but instead of falling back on a sling you can whip out a six shooter and go to town when you don't have any spells to cast. I would probably keep a domain for more casting, but herbalism is not the worst choice.

The build is basically SAD, as you only need wisdom and dexterity, being able to safely dump charisma/strength, and while you don't dump con it is not a huge deal. Intelligence only being important if you want a lot of skills. If you go wizard you still only need an INT of 11/12, as you are only casting first level spells, have no cantrips, and have 4 opposition schools.

I sort of remember seeing it somewhere before, but I can't find the dex to damage at level 1 thing anywhere. Do you have a page number or link?

[grarrrg]

I sort of remember seeing it somewhere before, but I can't find the dex to damage at level 1 thing anywhere. Do you have a page number or link?

Linky (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/firearms/)
"Firearms in your campaign">
"Guns everywhere">
"The Gunslinger loses the gunsmith class feature and instead gains the gun training class feature at 1st level." Which is the ability that gives Dex to damage.

[Ellrin]

Linky (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/firearms/)
"Firearms in your campaign">
"Guns everywhere">
"The Gunslinger loses the gunsmith class feature and instead gains the gun training class feature at 1st level." Which is the ability that gives Dex to damage.

Ugh, that's why I couldn't find it. I did Ctrl+F "gunsmithing" instead of just "gunsmith."

*headdesk*

Thanks!

[Ellrin]

Alright, so after some messing around, right now I'm thinking my combat feats will look something like this:

Level 1: Point-Blank Shot
Level 3: Precise Shot
Level 5: Rapid Reload, Two-Weapon Fighting (from Ranger Combat Style via Slayer Talent)
Level 7: Deadly Aim, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (from Ranger Combat Style via Slayer Talent)

Gunsmithing will either be at first or second level, depending on whether I go with a gunslinger or spellslinger dip. Still undecided on that—it's really down to the spellslinger's mage bullets vs. the gunslinger's level one deeds (and that +1 BAB). Dex to damage would probably push things over to the gunslinger's court, but I'm not sure I can count on a Guns Everywhere setting.

I might push Deadly Aim back a little to pull in some more castery/flavor feats around 7-9, since I can use the Combat Trick Rogue Talent to pile on the extra combat feats via slayer talents, and I'll be taking Greater TWF at 11th; but I think that should form a pretty decent core. If I find I'm not having much trouble hitting touch AC, I can always pile Rapid Shot on there, too.

Snap Shot (the rogue talent, not the feat) for the increased initiative in surprise rounds and Deadly Range (so my max sneak attack range = 40' = first range increment of pistols/revolvers with the distance enhance) seem vaguely appealing, as well, but I only get a native 1d6 SA, meaning I only really care about it for establishing studied target pre-swift-action-study, so I'm thinking stuff like metamagic and Augment Summons is probably more important since the gunslinging is supposed to be secondary.

Since I'm probably going with a flying race and ranged combat, I don't guess Flyby Attack would actually be at all useful, generally speaking? I mean, I only need to beat a DC 15 Fly to stay aloft without moving, so I'm probably going to mostly be full attacking.

That's also why I went TWF for Ranger Combat Style instead of Archery or Crossbow, since I'm not sure I need Improved Precise Shot ASAP—with three dimensions of movement, I probably don't need to worry as much about cover, though concealment could still be a drag.

[Geddy2112]

The good thing about point blank and precise shot is that they benefit spells that require a ranged touch attack even if you use em the good old fashioned way(and don't go spellslinger) so it is not a total waste of feats. If you can count on guns everywhere getting dex to damage is really strong at level one, and if you can count on guns everywhere you probably have revolvers, meaning you don't need rapid reload(most combats you won't empty all six cylinders, even TWF dakkaing). If you don;t have advanced guns reloading two gets tricky and requires gun twirling, or a tail, or dipping into juggler bard. If you have revolvers, get rapid shot and really go to town.

Snap shot is cool if there is a surprise round and you want to be Han Solo(because you DO shoot first). However, surprise rounds seem to be pretty rare in my experience. If nobody is surprised or everyone is, this won't happen. It also only gets a single shot off, which is really good for rogues and great for any kind of assassin since they have sneak attack/death attack, but it just won't do all that much damage for you.

Spell focus conjuration and augment summons are bread and butter for any caster, and well worth pushing back damage feats. Having guns is good, but having guns and a bunch of bodies all over the table is better.

It is only a DC10 to move half speed and maintain flight, and 15 to hover. Once you have a +14 to fly you are set as you can hang out in the air and pewpew. Keep in mind druids have other ways to get flight besides nature shape, namely the air domain.