Spells for Broken Bones?

[egglegg]

So, one of my NPCs has a fairly severe limp from a broken bone that healed improperly.
The party Wizard asked if there was a spell that could fix his limp. I didn't have an answer.
Is there any Wizard spell/any spell at all that would be able to fix the limp by any means? Even if it would take rediculous lengths I'd like to hear it!

[Safety Sword]

So, one of my NPCs has a fairly severe limp from a broken bone that healed improperly.
The party Wizard asked if there was a spell that could fix his limp. I didn't have an answer.
Is there any Wizard spell/any spell at all that would be able to fix the limp by any means? Even if it would take rediculous lengths I'd like to hear it!

I'd think Heal would definitely fix it?

[JellyPooga]

Explicitly? No. No spell mentions healing that sort of thing (to my knowledge). Implicitly? A generous GM might allow Restoration, perhaps, or as Safety Sword says Heal might do the trick. Chopping the limb off and Regeneration would "cure" the limp too. Or of course there's Reincarnation...

[DarkKnightJin]

You could do what I've seen done on Critical Role, and allow the Cleric/healer to use Cure Wounds and add in a Medicine check to see how well they manage to guide the injury to heal/regen properly.

...This might also mean they'd have to re-break the bone to set it properly before more healing is applied.

Also, make sure any such thing isn't just instant. Outside of maybe high level spells like Heal which are an insane resource to spend like that. Those should have a lower DC on the check to make sure everything is set right before they overcharge the healing to mend the bone.

[Ninja_Prawn]

RAW, I'd say it's covered by regenerate, which can restore *lost* limbs, so you could just amputate and regenerate if you were desperate for healing. I definitely feel it's within the scope of greater restoration and heal, as well.

But frankly, a limp is a minor thing for magic. On page 272 of the DMG, under 'lingering injuries', both the limp and the internal injury are healed by "magical healing" - i.e. cure wounds/healing word are sufficient to remove a limp. When you think about it, that's exactly what cure wounds is supposed to do. If you get beaten up in combat, broken bones are one of the more likely things to happen, and cure wounds restores you to full fitness in that situation, so why not this one?

[Findulidas]

Healing a bone is a quite simple procedure compared to what you might suffer if you lets say get an arrow in your belly.

[Vingelot]

So, one of my NPCs has a fairly severe limp from a broken bone that healed improperly.
The party Wizard asked if there was a spell that could fix his limp. I didn't have an answer.
Is there any Wizard spell/any spell at all that would be able to fix the limp by any means? Even if it would take rediculous lengths I'd like to hear it!

Well IIRC the lowest-level wizard spell that can heal is Wish, so you might have better luck with a temple healer. On the other hand, Wish will certainly fix it, although I'm not sure if it's worth the cost :smallbiggrin:

[Joe the Rat]

I'm disinclined to go with cure wounds. It heals abstract damage (hit points), not concrete things like bones.

Along the lines of lingering injuries having associated penalties and status effects, a restoration spell or heal really fits the bill. I'd allow Regeneration without amputation, on the principle of the spell repairing and restoring tissues, rather than strictly regrowing them.

[egglegg]

Alrighty, thanks everyone! I'll have a good look at the spells suggested and think what would work best in the situation.

[willdaBEAST]

If it wasn't a compound or complicated break, I'd allow mending to repair the damage if the party reset the limb. The spell specifies an object, but in my mind that could include a bone (it would if you found a bone on the ground). Again, it'd have to be a relatively simple break that was never set properly and there'd probably need to be some kind of healing spell used in conjunction, since you'd have to re-break the limb to align it.

[Toofey]

I was thinking about this earlier today actually, I'm probably going to make repair injury available and make it a ritual spell to avoid forcing the players to use the slot for that. (hopefully they're use it as a ritual which will be good for gameplay as effects from breaks will last through the fight if I'm sparing enough that I don't make it worth it to prepare)

[Mellack]

Since there is no way to break a bone outside of DM fiat, the only way to heal it is DM fiat as well. Have them decide how difficult they want it to be and then choose a spell of that level. That could be anything from cure wounds to Heal.

[Findulidas]

Since there is no way to break a bone outside of DM fiat

By RAW there is though.

[Willie the Duck]

So, one of my NPCs has a fairly severe limp from a broken bone that healed improperly.
The party Wizard asked if there was a spell that could fix his limp. I didn't have an answer.
Is there any Wizard spell/any spell at all that would be able to fix the limp by any means? Even if it would take rediculous lengths I'd like to hear it!

Regardless of what people find within the rule books, it sounds like this NPC has a limp because you the DM decided that they do. Therefore, the limp should be curable if and when you decide it should be. A plot hook for the PCs to follow a trail of rumors to get to a purveyor of famed 'Miracle Joe's Amazing Joint and Osteo-scar-reducing Liniment Ointment (the first three bottles of which they tracked down being disappointing frauds, but the fourth one is the real deal) sounds like a lovely off-kilter adventure.


By RAW there is though.

State your argument, or you didn't make it. Where are broken bones in the game? What is the context? And how do you think it fits with the premise of the thread?

[Findulidas]

State your argument, or you didn't make it.



But frankly, a limp is a minor thing for magic. On page 272 of the DMG, under 'lingering injuries', both the limp and the internal injury are healed by "magical healing" - i.e. cure wounds/healing word are sufficient to remove a limp. When you think about it, that's exactly what cure wounds is supposed to do. If you get beaten up in combat, broken bones are one of the more likely things to happen, and cure wounds restores you to full fitness in that situation, so why not this one?

Also what ever gave you the impression that I wanted to have a argument. I quite frankly dont care that much if you arent convinced by it.

[Vingelot]

Also what ever gave you the impression that I wanted to have a argument. I quite frankly dont care that much if you arent convinced by it.

That much is obvious.

[Mellack]

By RAW there is though.

Where? What rule is that?

[Findulidas]

That much is obvious.

Its just doesnt do go anywhere or change anything. Nobody but a few people like to read those several pages long arguments about something obscure. Nobody I play with goes to check these forums. So its better to say what you think and how you interpret it and if the other guy doesnt agree then its better to agree to disagree and let anyone reading about it decide for themselves.Refering to discussions on forums hasnt really been helpful in persuading DMs either so far, perhaps not suprisingly.

In all of the games Ive had to deal with injuries like this it has been homebrewed stuff anyway so the rules arent very important.

[Mellack]

Not asking for a pages long dissertation on this. A page number or quote on where it RAW lists how to break bones. You last post was already much longer than it would have taken to answer.

[Lombra]

Where? What rule is that?

He's referring to the DMG section about injuries probably. AFB now but I think that for some injuries there are examples of spells that should restore them. Anyways, it's in the DMG, so the DM is the solution.

[JumboWheat01]

I'm gonna get yelled at for suggesting this, but Mending repairs objects, and a bone is an object. Won't restore HP, but could set the bone right.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

I'm gonna get yelled at for suggesting this, but Mending repairs objects, and a bone is an object. Won't restore HP, but could set the bone right.

If it was outside of a person, sure, but I think being part of a 'creature' makes it no longer just an 'object' for D&D rules purposes, since they generally draw a distinction between the two.

[Willie the Duck]

Its just doesnt do go anywhere or change anything. Nobody but a few people like to read those several pages long arguments about something obscure. Nobody I play with goes to check these forums. So its better to say what you think and how you interpret it and if the other guy doesnt agree then its better to agree to disagree and let anyone reading about it decide for themselves.Refering to discussions on forums hasnt really been helpful in persuading DMs either so far, perhaps not suprisingly.

Then why bother being here?

Either way, this appears to be a tempest in a teapot. When you said it was RAW, it would have been advisable for you to indicate that your argument (by which I mean rationale, logic, reasoning) was based on the DMG page Ninja Prawn referenced. Once that was made clear, the issue was very straightforward.

[Findulidas]

Then why bother being here?


Because you can learn from someone without having a long winded philosophical argument. Ive seen way to many discussions just escalate here.

Also I suppose that if you dont like cure wounds healing broken bones you can always go with greater resoration.

[Mellack]

I think you are mistaking the use of the word argument. It was being used as a debate or a discussion based on facts. It does not always mean some big philosophical discussion or have to be acrimonious.

[foobar1969]

Willie, Mellack, and especially Findulidas, all of you are being obtuse and annoying. The answer is already explicitly stated in the thread:


On page 272 of the DMG, under 'lingering injuries', both the limp and the internal injury are healed by "magical healing"

Prawn makes a reasonable argument that Cure Wounds counts as "magical healing", but I find that option dissatisfying. 1st level curing is available in pretty much any D&D village or tribe with a population above double digits, so anything it can fix would hardly count as a "lingering" injury. I'd set the bar somewhere higher.



Lesser Restoration can remove paralysis, which is a strictly worse condition than a limp, but perhaps it doesn't include mis-healed bone.
Greater Restoration can remove petrifaction or ability score reduction. I can't think of a reason this wouldn't be sufficient for a limp.
In a pre-medical world, pretty much any ailment was believed to be the work of evil spirits, so you could make a case for Remove Curse.

[Willie the Duck]

My response was made before Findulidas clarified that he was using that part of the book as his reasoning, and have been respectful and helpful from there on out. You can think what you want, but I'm walking away with my head held high on this one.

Prawn makes a reasonable argument that Cure Wounds counts as "magical healing", but I find that option dissatisfying. 1st level curing is available in pretty much any D&D village or tribe with a population above double digits, so anything it can fix would hardly count as a "lingering" injury. I'd set the bar somewhere higher.

I tentatively agree. It seems to count as "magical healing," and also seems like a limp would be akin to a broken bone (wish they had given an example that would correlate to a broken arm).

As to the prevalence of magical healing of that level--that seems to fall into a general trend, where the distribution of magic in a D&D world should make more than a few of the 'medieval world' challenges that people face in it rather easy to solve. Sure, a plague would overwhelm a society's clerics' ability to keep up, but regular disease should be readily treated. I think in 3e, there was something online called a 'Tippy-verse,' which was a thought experiment of what the D&D world would look like if you took the game rules and applied them to the society (e.g. wizards casting Wall of Iron would make the mining industry disappear, etc.). I think the Tippy-verse equivalent for 5e would be a world without Old Joe with the Limp.

If one wanted to avoid this, but keep it at 'healing magic heals bone breakage,' one thought would be to require an up-cast (2nd or 3rd level) cure for a significant enough break. Or, the old standby, 'the rules work different for PCs.' Neither seems perfectly satisfying, but would be relatively simple workarounds.

[Slipperychicken]

So, one of my NPCs has a fairly severe limp from a broken bone that healed improperly.
The party Wizard asked if there was a spell that could fix his limp. I didn't have an answer.
Is there any Wizard spell/any spell at all that would be able to fix the limp by any means? Even if it would take rediculous lengths I'd like to hear it!

If you ask me, I think any kind of healing spell should do bones as well as flesh.

If you're a real stickler about having magical healing only restore fresh wounds instead of repairing improperly-healed stuff, then I say have someone perform surgery (or violence if you're in a hurry) to "un-fix" it, then use magic to restore it the right way.