Question about the shield spell

[Max Caysey]

I was looking through the spells and saw that shield (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shield.htm) spell's shield bonus applies against incorporeal touch attack, being made of [force] and all, but if its made of force and applies its armor bonus against incorporeal, should it not too apply against normal touch and ranged touch? Wouldn't that be the logical inference?

[AlanBruce]

I was looking through the spells and saw that shield (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shield.htm) spell's shield bonus applies against incorporeal touch attack, being made of [force] and all, but if its made of force and applies its armor bonus against incorporeal, should it not too apply against normal touch and ranged touch? Wouldn't that be the logical inference?

Force has always been the bane of incorporeal creatures like Shadows, so yes, Shield will protect you against their touch attack.

But do not confuse an incorporeal touch attack with a ranged touch attack or a touch attack delivered by a corporeal caster.

For further reference into this, check out Mage Armor. Same level as Shield, same (Force) tag. They too make incorporeals harder to hit you...

But they cannot afford defense versus an orb or scorching ray cast by someone since despite their make, they serve the function of a shield and armor, which are ignored by touch attacks and ranged touch attacks alike.

[Crake]

I was looking through the spells and saw that shield (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shield.htm) spell's shield bonus applies against incorporeal touch attack, being made of [force] and all, but if its made of force and applies its armor bonus against incorporeal, should it not too apply against normal touch and ranged touch? Wouldn't that be the logical inference?

The reason incorporeal touch attacks are touch attacks is because they pass through all your mundane material defenses and reach your soft, juicy flesh and rend it with negative energy. Think of it kinda like a wight's slam attack, but it goes through all your armor and shields. The force effects act as a barrier for those things, but other touch spells simply need to contact "you". It's the same reason a shield and armor doesn't stop those kinds of touch attacks, because it's not about a barrier being in the way. If you need to reconcile it, imagine that the spell is hitting your chakra, and your chakra is not protected by the shield.

[Max Caysey]

The reason incorporeal touch attacks are touch attacks is because they pass through all your mundane material defenses and reach your soft, juicy flesh and rend it with negative energy. Think of it kinda like a wight's slam attack, but it goes through all your armor and shields. The force effects act as a barrier for those things, but other touch spells simply need to contact "you". It's the same reason a shield and armor doesn't stop those kinds of touch attacks, because it's not about a barrier being in the way. If you need to reconcile it, imagine that the spell is hitting your chakra, and your chakra is not protected by the shield.

I get that... but the difference is, that a normal shield is lashed to the arm or held, thus in close contact of the bearer. The shield spell has no contact. And since a force barrier blocks normal spells too, i would IMHO block normal touch as well. Assume a ray hits hits this shield (I get that its actually impossible since it doesn't count against ranged touch attacks), but if there is an active blocking plane of force, trying to block incoming attacks and it can "catch" incoming magic missiles and the hand of a ghost, then surely it could "catch" a ray of enfeeblement.

What I'm trying to say is that I think its illogical or silly that the spell functions as it does. It either blocks incoming attack or it does not...

[AlanBruce]

What I'm trying to say is that I think its illogical or silly that the spell functions as it does. It either blocks incoming attack or it does not...

And therein lies the biggest problem: you are trying to make sense out of D&D, a game known for having absurd rules that make no sense whatsoever in the real world.

And that's before magic comes into play.

In the end, talk it up with your DM: maybe he will allow the Shield spell to block range touch attacks, but in my experience, the spell replaces a physical shield, only that it works against incorporeal touch attacks and blocks Magic Missile. And that's it.

[Max Caysey]

And therein lies the biggest problem: you are trying to make sense out of D&D, a game known for having absurd rules that make no sense whatsoever in the real world.

And that's before magic comes into play.

In the end, talk it up with your DM: maybe he will allow the Shield spell to block range touch attacks, but in my experience, the spell replaces a physical shield, only that it works against incorporeal touch attacks and blocks Magic Missile. And that's it.

Indeed... I have never really thought about it before I noticed the "stopping of incorporeal touches". Its simply just the "if a ghost reaches its hand out to touch you, the shield actively tries to block the incoming ghost arm, but if a human does it, the shield does not, unless that arm/hand is holding a dagger, then it does!" I also get that a normal shield is touching the arm/hand and therefore touching the shield is enough to deliver the touch attack, but since that's not the case with the magical shield of force, there should be no passing on through the shield...


Anyways you are right... I shouldn't be trying to make too much sense of the rules... I guess the easy solution is simply to create a similar version spell, which is just a plane of force that actively stops incoming attack, which would give a circumstance bonus instead of shield bonus... Or as you say, have a talk with my DM..

Thanks for a nice little discussion! :smallsmile:

[Kallimakus]

Another angle, sort of is this: All incorporeal attacks are touch attacks, or at least I can't think of an incorporeal non-touch attacks. So it would be just as right to call it as applying against incorporeal attacks. As for the reason it doesn't apply to regular touch attacks, I think that the one making the touch attack can aim past the shield spell or shield, since all they need is the touch.

[AlanBruce]

Another angle, sort of is this: All incorporeal attacks are touch attacks, or at least I can't think of an incorporeal non-touch attacks. So it would be just as right to call it as applying against incorporeal attacks. As for the reason it doesn't apply to regular touch attacks, I think that the one making the touch attack can aim past the shield spell or shield, since all they need is the touch.

Look at it this way:

1. It's a 1st level spell, so when you have access to it (usually level 1 if starting a game from scratch), chances are you will be a lot more protected than half the party members.

2. It blocks Magic Missiles. Flat out negates them. Another great way to survive when enemies at level 1 will probably spam a Magic Missile or two.

3. It helps against incorporeal touch attacks- this is gold right here for a low level party. How many tales abound of a single Allip or Shadow taking down the melee in a round or two because of this?

4. It grants a nice +4 shield bonus- the equivalent of a Tower Shield, but without the drawbacks.

And all that at level 1. Throw some Abjurant Champion later on and watch that spell shine even more so. So yes, some DMs may point out the above points when asked why it doesn't block ranged touch attacks, stating that the caster is a lot better protected than the rest of the party (again, assuming all are level 1 and just starting).

[Kallimakus]

In interest of perfect clarity, I think that shield is the best 1st level defensive spell, with the only drawback being duration compared to mage armor. And it isn't hard to get armour that gives a point or two to AC without failure chance. And unlike a normal shield it leaves a hand free, as well as being better than any actual shield.

[Max Caysey]

In interest of perfect clarity, I think that shield is the best 1st level defensive spell, with the only drawback being duration compared to mage armor. And it isn't hard to get armour that gives a point or two to AC without failure chance. And unlike a normal shield it leaves a hand free, as well as being better than any actual shield.

It is a great spell, however I just found it peculiar that is the guy attacking you with an unarmed attack it block, but if the same hand is trying to touch you, it doesn't block. I understand it from a rule perspective, but not from a logical point!

Anyways you all have answered my questions... thanks guys!