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Fredaintdead
2017-08-30, 11:03 AM
So, recently my Gunsmith Artificer managed to luck into getting a small Earth Elemental as a familiar. As it stands, said Elemental has the stats of a Crab (I was allowed to pick the stats of any of the possible familiars for Find Familiar, and Crab sounded coolest at the time), but with the Earth Glide and Siege Monster abilities from the Earth Elemental statblock. Essentially his statblock looks like this:

Pebblesworth Flintbeard
AC: 11 (natural armour)
HP: 2 (1d4)
Speed: Land 20ft, Swim 20ft, Burrow 20ft
STR 2 (-4) DEX 11 (+0) CON 10 (+0) INT 1 (-5) WIS 8 (-1) CHA 2 (-4)
Skills: Stealth +2
Senses: Blindsight 30 ft, Passive Perception 9

Amphibious - Can breathe air and water
Earth Glide - Can burrow through non magical, unworked earth and stone. While doing so, the elemental doesn't disturb the material it moves through.
Siege Monster - Deals double damage to objects and structures.

ACTIONS
Slam. Melee Weapon Attack: +0 to hit, reach 5ft, one target. Hit: 1 bludgeoning damage.

So, my question is, what cool stuff can I do with him? My DM suggested that he could mess up doors and structures because of Siege Monster, but I'm not sure they realised that Crabs only deal 1 damage.

Campaign Context: It's basically a series of one-shots. If you sign up you end up doing whatever the DM planned with whoever else signed up. In light of that, relying on other party members to provide combos is tenuous at best. Downtime is always limited to a maximum of 1 week, so crafting stuff for him (I have access to Alchemy, Cooking and Masonry for crafting) needs to be small stuff.

Ventruenox
2017-08-30, 12:27 PM
Those traits are amazing, even if the damage is negligible. For utility, this familiar can be perfect for sabatoge. Siege monster will allow you to bypass damage thresholds of ships, towers, castles, etc. If there is a trap built into the walls or floor, it can disarm/spring those safely. Find out if you can cast things like Shatter through the familiar and have that trait apply. Use knowledge skill checks to identify crucial points in a construction, then have it target that. If the DM of one session doesn't allow it, at least you have a scout who can move through walls and let you see what's inside.

If you have a bag of holding, keep him in it till needed to avoid AoE attacks. An elemental shouldn't need to breathe.

JackPhoenix
2017-08-30, 03:48 PM
The "familiar can't attack" clause in Find Familiar makes Siege Monster useless.

Blindsight and Earth Glide may turn the familiar into an alarm. He's safely hidden underground, yet still knows what's going on around him. The same combo may be used for scouting hard to reach places, though "unworked earth and stone" limits that somewhat.

Ventruenox
2017-08-30, 04:00 PM
It can't use the attack action, but allowing it to do damage to the environment is permissible. Ever have a weasel familiar chew through ropes?

JackPhoenix
2017-08-30, 04:05 PM
It can't use the attack action, but allowing it to do damage to the environment is permissible. Ever have a weasel familiar chew through ropes?

It doesn't say attack action, it says can't attack. Period. RAW, damaging objects is attacking. Yes, this is one of the situations when common sense should overrule RAW.

Chugger
2017-08-30, 04:05 PM
Since it is homebrew make sure you can resummon it if it dies. If not (or if it's stupid expensive to resummon) be careful with it - just use it for scouting and socially.

You can always have it help you or a party member in combat, to get adv on an attack. Even though it's just a little guy, I would imagine that someone poking your leg would distract you enough to grant someone attacking you an advantage (and a toad familiar can help you in combat - I suppose that's the mechanism how - I have an owl familiar, which is easier to envision distracting targets as it helps you in combat).

Check w/ your DM but your DM seems already cool with it being able to damage structures. That's good. As others said, trap evasion seems great.

Azgeroth
2017-08-31, 10:25 AM
a little clarification would be good,

did you summon this familiar, or find it in the world and it chose to serve you?

big difference as others have pointed out, any familiar you gain through the summon familiar spell can not take the attack action.

however, if you gained a familiar by it choosing to serve you, (per pseudo/luck dragon as a wizard) then it can use its abilities as it normally would. however, it is not a summoned familiar, so you cannot communicate
by psychic means, or cast spells through it.

if its something other than those 2 due to homebrew, let us know!

Waterdeep Merch
2017-08-31, 12:39 PM
The "familiar can't attack" clause in Find Familiar makes Siege Monster useless.

Blindsight and Earth Glide may turn the familiar into an alarm. He's safely hidden underground, yet still knows what's going on around him. The same combo may be used for scouting hard to reach places, though "unworked earth and stone" limits that somewhat.
Are you... serious, right now? RAW, you can't have an earth elemental familiar. RAW, there is no earth elemental crab. RAW, you cannot have an earth elemental crab familiar.

The DM specifically stated he could use it to attack structures. RAW stopped applying long before this, but it's pretty clear arguing that RAW doesn't allow for this behavior stopped mattering at the very beginning.

On topic, the ability to tunnel under a structure and attack whatever holds up those structures can allow you to topple castles and fortresses faster than you'd imagine. Ask if you get the standard two-way telepathy of a familiar, then plan out some demolitions. Try to compromise the integrity of a few specific points, then destroy them when needed as you enter.

You can make more advantageous doorways into dungeons, too. If the front looks too well guarded, see if you can figure out a place where your crabmental can create a tunnel into the place. If it's a totally natural cave, even better- have the little guy scout the place out for you.

JackPhoenix
2017-08-31, 05:16 PM
Are you... serious, right now? RAW, you can't have an earth elemental familiar. RAW, there is no earth elemental crab. RAW, you cannot have an earth elemental crab familiar.

The DM specifically stated he could use it to attack structures. RAW stopped applying long before this, but it's pretty clear arguing that RAW doesn't allow for this behavior stopped mattering at the very beginning.

There's a difference between refluffing (which this is) and outright ignoring existing rules. I can say my Green-Flame Blade is actually black, it's a different thing to say I can use it with ranged weapons. The DM *suggested* it could be used to attack structures, but apparently missed the fact a crab only does 1 damage. He could've just as easily missed the "no attack" from Find Familiar.

Jerrykhor
2017-09-01, 05:57 AM
There's a difference between refluffing (which this is) and outright ignoring existing rules. I can say my Green-Flame Blade is actually black, it's a different thing to say I can use it with ranged weapons. The DM *suggested* it could be used to attack structures, but apparently missed the fact a crab only does 1 damage. He could've just as easily missed the "no attack" from Find Familiar.

Oh sod off. The OP didn't say his familiar is from the Find Familiar spell. Its simply a custom familiar with custom rules and custom stats, so it is not tied to the rules from Find Familiar.

Waterdeep Merch gets it. Be like Waterdeep Merch.

Fredaintdead
2017-09-01, 06:20 AM
Oh sod off. The OP didn't say his familiar is from the Find Familiar spell. Its simply a custom familiar with custom rules and custom stats, so it is not tied to the rules from Find Familiar.

Waterdeep Merch gets it. Be like Waterdeep Merch.

To be fair, the basis of the familiar is the Find Familiar spell (including that since I don't know the spell, I can't re-summon it if it dies without a scroll of Find Familiar), since that's where I had to choose its stats from (For the record, it has the STATS of a crab, it isn't actually a crab). Anyway, my DM's not replied other than to say he'd like to chat about it at some, so I'll let you know the details as and when that happens.

Ventruenox
2017-09-01, 07:18 AM
Since this is a situation where RAW is a guideline and not gospel, it may be useful to go in to that conversation with your DM with game balance in mind.

I've got my own homebrew familiar, as one of my current character's classes was based on the Eberron Artificer with the furitive filcher.
(Essentially a bardlock, but I digress) I forego the pocket dimension abilities since I could easily abuse them. I now keep it as a noncombatant because every time I used it for advantage, it ended up getting destroyed. My DM still gets annoyed that I use it to break action economy (Immovable Rod shenanigans), but we've come to an understanding to preserve game balance. Figure out the role you want your familiar to play, and promise to stick to it. You may get more latitude that way, whoever the DM of the day may be for that campaign.

I for one would be curious to the outcome.

Beelzebubba
2017-09-01, 08:14 AM
1) If you want to be a total stickler, I can play that game too. So, 'attack' involves sentient creatures in combat with the Attack Action. Chewing through rope or loosening the earth under a pillar is not an Attack.

2) The intent is to prevent Familiars from adding to the action economy of one character in combat. They're all about out-of-combat utility otherwise. So, for the familiars that can't fly, limiting that too much makes them into '30 foot touch spells' and that's it.

3) I'd allow the earth elemental to do that stuff, but due to it's tiny size it's not going to be fast about it, on the order of a minute or so to do anything worthwhile, and I'd say the size of the structures it could affect would be limited via innate damage resistance to anything 'hardened'. So, fence posts, sure...earth under a fortress wall? Too tough.

Millstone85
2017-09-01, 08:36 AM
If you want to be a total stickler, I can play that game too. So, 'attack' involves sentient creatures in combat with the Attack Action. Chewing through rope or loosening the earth under a pillar is not an Attack.There are actually a couple options for this.
The DM determines an object's Armor Class and hit points, and might decide that certain objects have resistance or immunity to certain kinds of attacks. (lt's hard to cut a rope with a club, for example.)
A character can also attempt a Strength check to break an object. The DM sets the DC for any such check.Now, would you have an ability check be followed by a damage roll? Eh, why not, though it does seem unusual.

Fredaintdead
2017-09-01, 12:34 PM
Well, the DM cleared some things up for me.
Firstly: Yes, it does have the 100ft telepathy with me.
Secondly: Yes, it can transfer touch spells for me.
Thirdly: It CAN attack, using the same rules as Pact of the Chain familiars, in that I have to use my action tell it to do so.

Stat changes: Not Amphibious (trades the Crab's swim speed for Earth Glide basically). Speed increased to 25ft. Strength increased to 16 (I am not allowed to use it to carry things, but given that I have a Bag of Holding this doesn't particularly matter to me). Slam base damage boosted to 1d6.

Pebblesworth Flintbeard
Small Elemental
AC: 11 (natural armour)
HP: 2 (1d4)
Speed: Land 25ft, Burrow 25ft
STR 16 (+3) DEX 11 (+0) CON 10 (+0) INT 1 (-5) WIS 8 (-1) CHA 2 (-4)
Skills: Stealth +2
Senses: Blindsight 30 ft, Passive Perception 9

Earth Glide - Can burrow through non magical, unworked earth and stone. While doing so, the elemental doesn't disturb the material it moves through.
Siege Monster - Deals double damage to objects and structures.

ACTIONS
Slam. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5ft, one target. Hit: 1d6+3 bludgeoning damage.

Waterdeep Merch
2017-09-01, 02:53 PM
Well, the DM cleared some things up for me.
Firstly: Yes, it does have the 100ft telepathy with me.
Secondly: Yes, it can transfer touch spells for me.
Thirdly: It CAN attack, using the same rules as Pact of the Chain familiars, in that I have to use my action tell it to do so.

Stat changes: Not Amphibious (trades the Crab's swim speed for Earth Glide basically). Speed increased to 25ft. Strength increased to 16 (I am not allowed to use it to carry things, but given that I have a Bag of Holding this doesn't particularly matter to me). Slam base damage boosted to 1d6.

Pebblesworth Flintbeard
Small Elemental
AC: 11 (natural armour)
HP: 2 (1d4)
Speed: Land 25ft, Burrow 25ft
STR 16 (+3) DEX 11 (+0) CON 10 (+0) INT 1 (-5) WIS 8 (-1) CHA 2 (-4)
Skills: Stealth +2
Senses: Blindsight 30 ft, Passive Perception 9

Earth Glide - Can burrow through non magical, unworked earth and stone. While doing so, the elemental doesn't disturb the material it moves through.
Siege Monster - Deals double damage to objects and structures.

ACTIONS
Slam. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5ft, one target. Hit: 1d6+3 bludgeoning damage.
That's a pretty awesome familiar. At that much damage, it's going to be plenty powerful against most structures, and be able to collapse most normal materials quickly. I'd rarely ever use it to attack a creature, but it might be nifty to use your actions during combat to have it cause some havoc. Like destroying supports mid-battle to rain rocks or other debris on your foes, sealing an entryway before reinforcements can arrive by collapsing the stonework above, removing the catch on a pitfall that you might have placed earlier, etc. Think controlled demolitions. Used right, your familiar can separate enemies by creating a wall of stone out of stalactites, or destroying the supports of a bridge at a distance.

Just be careful not to lose the little guy. At 2 HP, a child could punch the poor thing to death in seconds. See if you can't stock up on find familiar scrolls so you can be more daring, or grab the Ritual Caster feat later for safety.

JackPhoenix
2017-09-01, 05:08 PM
Can you even resummon it in case something happens to it, or is it an one-time deal? The later would pretty much remove any combat use. If you *can* get it back, you've got more freedom, but I'd still recommend some way to increase it's survivability... any source of temp hp would be good. In that case, it can also block enemy movement, as it's small instead of tiny (and as small creature, it should actually use 1d6 for HP instead of 1d4).

Fredaintdead
2017-09-01, 07:43 PM
Can you even resummon it in case something happens to it, or is it an one-time deal? The later would pretty much remove any combat use. If you *can* get it back, you've got more freedom, but I'd still recommend some way to increase it's survivability... any source of temp hp would be good. In that case, it can also block enemy movement, as it's small instead of tiny (and as small creature, it should actually use 1d6 for HP instead of 1d4).

Unfortunately it's been explicitly stated that I can't resummon it if it dies unless I somehow get access to the Find Familiar spell (Either by knowing the spell, or having a scroll). I did explicitly ask whether its hit points would change, but the DM who gave it to me said no. So, I figure if I keep it out of combat and use it for utility, the only way it's going to get killed is if a DM specifically targets it, which seems unlikely (and frankly a little petty).

In terms of options of keeping it alive... well, I figure these are my options within the system the DMs have set up:
1. Ritual Caster at Lv4 to pick up Find Familiar from the Wizard spell list (and one other Ritual, not sure what I'd take).
2. Lucking into Potions/Scrolls of Heroism
- Unlikely, given that the "Guildhall" system only does magic items by random rolls on the tables in the DMG. (20% chance on Table A. Rolls on Table A do show up 2-5 times a session depending on which DM it is, but the DM needs to pick Heroism specifically. 5% chance on Table C for a Potion of Heroism... I've seen like three rolls on Table C so far.)
3. Spend my Lv4 ASI on +1 Str, +1 Wis (would bump me to Str 13 and Wis 13), so I can multiclass Paladin at 5th, then take Paladin 2 at 6th and learn the Heroism spell. This frankly doesn't seem like much of an option, given how long it would take to get there, and I don't particularly want to turn my roadie of an Artificer into a Paladin.
4. At 7th level (Which is so VERY VERY VERY far away. The Guildhall system started January of this year, and despite fairly regular games, does not yet have Lv5 characters, so I don't expect my Artificer to go from Lv2 to Lv7 in any reasonable amount of time), I could learn the Aid spell 2/long rest, so I could give it +5 hit points.
5. At 3rd level I can learn the Sanctuary and Shield of Faith spells.

So, honestly it sounds like my best bet is to take Ritual Caster and then do as best as I can to keep it out of harm's way.

Beelzebubba
2017-09-02, 01:37 PM
1a) Magic Initiate: Wizard, for two cantrips and Find Familiar?