Arcane trickster best build?

[Shadowbane13]

We just hit level 3 and I went AT. I was curious though would it be more beneficial to stick with arcane trickster or to multiclass? If multiclass what would be ideal to dip into?

[smcmike]

What are you trying to do with the build?

[SharkForce]

i would probably continue in arcane trickster for at least several more levels. possibly until you could learn haste (i think the earliest is at level 13, when you could trade your level 1 or 2 special spell known for it). probably i would at least pick up evasion, and i would say never rolling less than 10 on an ability check that you're proficient in is worth sticking around for as well.

that said, i also don't think there is "one true build" that is best for arcane tricksters. it's all about what you want to get out of it. and that, well... i can't tell you what you want to get out of it.

[Specter]

Don't multiclass before level 7, unless you know what you want.

You improve your striker ability at every two levels, and that's good enough on its own to go Rogue all the way. Along with that, you have Uncanny Dodge and Evasion, which will make you outlast many others in your party, and 2nd-level spells, which include Blur, so you can be sure to be prepared for most of what comes your way. And if you're regularly casting debuff spells, then level 9 for Magical Ambush is a must.

[Easy_Lee]

Arcane Trickster is the best in the game at being an Arcane Trickster. Don't multiclass unless you specifically want something from another class. Fighter and Wizard are both reasonable classes you might want something from, it just depends. But staying pure is often the correct choice, particularly on a caster.

[Eko]

1 level in knowledge cleric. That gets you: shields (+2 AC), two languages (works well with disguise spells AT gives you), expertise in two knowledge skills (AT already has good INT, this plays to advantages), and some cleric spells/cantrips (guiding bolt is HUGE, and there are many other good ones). Other cleric types also work, knowledge just works the best (Light is ok if you are strictly melee, war is also not too bad). If you're dipping 2 levels, knowledge is almost always best (Best channel divinity by far).

Just something to point out: at level 9 (Rogue 8, Cleric 1) you're looking at: shield of faith + shield + studded leather + 20 dex = 22 AC. Add mirror image (no concentration) for extra fun. 1/3 chance to hit, then needing to hit 22 AC, only to deal half damage? You will outlast the barbarian, if you do that. And you can do this twice per long rest for 1 minute (limited by mirror shield), on top of all your other stuff! Find me another build that can do that RAW at level 9!

[MeeposFire]

I don't know if I would want to use a spell with an attack roll unless my wisdom score was high enough to give a good chance at hitting.

As for fun dips I like bard two after getting rogue to at least 11. Getting the ability to treat all rolls as a minimum of an 11 on every ability check, skill, and tool is pretty cool. Does cost you a slight amount of sneak attack though.

[Gurifu]

If your experience in combat leans towards being the team's marksman, a level in Fighter for Archery Fighting Style and longbow/heavy crossbow proficiency will help you do that job even better.

[miburo]

We just hit level 3 and I went AT. I was curious though would it be more beneficial to stick with arcane trickster or to multiclass? If multiclass what would be ideal to dip into?

What race are you? Do you play ranged or melee with your AT? And what's the rest of the party like?

[coredump]

I don't know if I would want to use a spell with an attack roll unless my wisdom score was high enough to give a good chance at hitting.

As for fun dips I like bard two after getting rogue to at least 11. Getting the ability to treat all rolls as a minimum of an 11 on every ability check, skill, and tool is pretty cool. Does cost you a slight amount of sneak attack though.
I can't check my book right now, but that doesn't sound right. How are you doing that?

[djreynolds]

What race are you? Do you play ranged or melee with your AT? And what's the rest of the party like?

This is important. 100%

How do you get it done in battle?

Also what skills do you have with expertise?

How high is your intelligence?

Charm person is an awesome spell, but you have to put more into your casting stat at the expense of dexterity for spells that have a save attached to it.

Do you use your spells to maximize your skills? High athletics score and say spider climb, or high stealth and invisibility, whatever.

Do you use your spells in place of skills? Say you dumped strength and athletics because you have access to levitate and spider climb and have expertise in deception and persuasion?

[Shadowbane13]

What race are you? Do you play ranged or melee with your AT? And what's the rest of the party like?

Sorry I was so vague before. I'm a halfling lightfoot mostly dual wielding shortswords. My only ranged is a couple daggers. Our campaign is more role playing than combat but there is enough where attack spells can come in handy. I've picked up fire bolt, mage hand, and sword burst as cantrips and disguise self, find familiar, and silent image as 1st level spells.

Rest of my party is:
Dwarf barbarian
Halfling swashbuckler
Gnome artificier
Human fighter

[Dudewithknives]

Sorry I was so vague before. I'm a halfling lightfoot mostly dual wielding shortswords. My only ranged is a couple daggers. Our campaign is more role playing than combat but there is enough where attack spells can come in handy. I've picked up fire bolt, mage hand, and sword burst as cantrips and disguise self, find familiar, and silent image as 1st level spells.

Rest of my party is:
Dwarf barbarian
Halfling swashbuckler
Gnome artificier
Human fighter

Sounds like your group is lacking in caster power, but is still well rounded.

Your build seems solid assuming your stats are aligned correctly.

I would drop Firebolt though, and sword burst though. Just get a shortbow to replace firebolt.
You can sneak attack with a shortbow, but not with firebolt. Unless you have it just to set fires with or something, then you are fine.
Also I would pick up booming blade and minor illusion in their place.
Booming blade is gold for a rogue, adds flat damage at level 5+, and you can bonus action Disengage to force them to come after you if they want to melee. Also, I would pick up the Mobile feat ASAP, if you are melee centered, or crossbow master if ranged.
Bonus action hand crossbow shot it great for if you miss your first attack.

Not sure I would want to be a second halfling rogue in a group of 5, but hey if you RP well it could be very interesting.

Also, having a familiar is huge for a rogue. Free advantage so essentially free sneak attack each round. Great scouting backup. And other nifty tricks like having your familiar hold something and then dismissing it so it takes the item with it. Great way to sneak a small item in somewhere or to hide something.

[Shadowbane13]

I have used fire bolt to burn some things both out of the way and for small ranged damage when I can't get close enough in one round. And I was torn between booming blade and sword burst. In my first two levels I got surrounded several times when our tank would fall and it seemed ideal for a possible quick damage and disengage in sticky situations. I may play with it for another level or two then swap depending on the frequency of use. I have used it probably 4-5 times since we've hit 3rd level (which is about 7 sessions so far)

[Shadowbane13]

Side note... if you dual wield could you apply BB to both attacks? Obviously the effect is only on the target once but at 5th level could I have an extra d8 on both attacks?

[malachi]

If you use BB, you can't make a second attack (neither TWF or Extra Attack apply, in case you're thinking about MCing for 5 levels). Attacking with BB is casting a spell, not making an Attack action.

[Easy_Lee]

Side note... if you dual wield could you apply BB to both attacks? Obviously the effect is only on the target once but at 5th level could I have an extra d8 on both attacks?

No. Casting a cantrip is not the attack action. TWF doesn't work.

[Citan]

Sorry I was so vague before. I'm a halfling lightfoot mostly dual wielding shortswords. My only ranged is a couple daggers. Our campaign is more role playing than combat but there is enough where attack spells can come in handy. I've picked up fire bolt, mage hand, and sword burst as cantrips and disguise self, find familiar, and silent image as 1st level spells.

Rest of my party is:
Dwarf barbarian
Halfling swashbuckler
Gnome artificier
Human fighter
Hmm. Well, there are several things you could do as quick improvments.

1. If you feel you most generally use your bonus action to get another weapon attack, then a single dip into Fighter would be worth it for the TWF (if however you find yourself most often using Cunning Action, then don't bother, the benefit is not worth delaying Rogue by a full level), to pair maybe with Sharpshooter later (so you can still be effective with your daggers at up to 60 feet when melee is not possible or too dangerous/inappropriate).

2. If you consider using offensive spells, then keep Arcane Trickster until you get level 9. Magical Ambush is great. Paired with bumps in casting stat, it makes you even better than most fullcasters (well, they do have much better and higher spells though, but any successful Blindness/Hold Person/Slow/Faerie Fire/Web/Fireball can be a game changer even at higher levels ;)).

3. If you have 13+ WIS, you could seriously consider a dip into Cleric. Using Bless on yourself means more chance to land Sneak Attack (and consequently no need to use dual-wielding just for another chance, instead you can hide/disengage/dash).
If you have 16+ WIS, you could even make a true multiclass and then grab War domain ("über precision every short rest, a few bonus action attacks every long rest).

4. If you have 13+ WIS, a dip in Druid could also be an option if you like the Wild Shape ability. Especially once you get Magical Ambush, you could use tiny beast forms to infiltrate a place while hidden and create a big diversion or otherwise put a big dent in enemy forces before your friends invade. You also get many great low-WIS spells (Guidance, Healing Words, Longstrider, Jump, Fog Cloud, Animal Friendship, Speak with Animals, Absorb Elements) and high-WIS spells (Thorns Whip, Earth Tremor, Thunderwave, Entangle).

5. If you have 13+ CHA, you could seriously consider a dip into Warlock: either using Hex (paired with Expertise in Athletics) to shove enemy prone (and get advantage), or Armor of Agathys (help a bit repel enemies) or Comprehend Languages (great for your spying activities). And if you have 16+ CHA, Eldricht Blast covers your ranged attacks well.

6. If you have 13+ CHA, you could envision a multiclass into Sorcerer: Subtle metamagic is awesomely synergizing with Magical Ambush (they won't know what hit them) at high levels, Heightened could make a good alternative to leveling up to Rogue 9 if you are mainly interested in single-target debuff, Empowered and Quicken would allow you to make great nova damage with weapon cantrips or just allow you to enable any buff (Mirror Image, Blur, Haste, Greater Invisibility whatever else) while still having your action free for an attempt at Sneak Attack.

7. If you have 13+ INT, dipping Transmuter/Illusionist/Evoker Wizard somewhere in your progression (probably around Rogue 9) would give you a nice boost in spell variety and abilities.

Here is for a few options. ;)
The big choices to make (in that exact order) which show the way are...

A. Am I the skill-monkey of the party (or just, do I care much about being good at skills)?
If answer is yes, no need to think any further: stick pure Rogue until level 11 (Reliable Talent). Seriously.

B. Do I want to use offensive spells while having a lowish stat?
Yes? Stick Rogue until Magical Ambush. It's really the quickest way: bumping your casting stat would take too much time, all the while people count on your Sneak Attack. Best to stick with self-buffs in first half, letting other people take care of offense, then progressively replace your spell selection in the latter half of your leveling (or maybe take a dip into a spellcaster).

C. Do I want to use offensive spells, with me already having a good casting stat?
If it's INT, stick pure Rogue unless you really want more variety, in which case you can consider a dip into Wizard. If it's WIS, take a single level dip into Druid. If it's CHA, take a single level dip into Sorcerer.
In all case the dip should be made between Rogue 5 and Rogue 9, because your life will seriously change once you get the hang of Magical Ambush. After you get it, switch class and don't look back (unless you still want to get Reliable Talent sometimes).

D. Do I want to be a self-centered caster (pun intended)? If yes, you don't care about Magical Ambush, you don't care about having high casting stat, but you do care about getting some spell slots and great spells. Either stick pure Arcane Trickster because you are interested in some high-level features, or adapt your character so you can take a Knowledge (moar skills)/Light (cantrip, defense ability)/War (martial weapons, offense ability) Cleric dip early, as early as possible in fact: the immediate upgrade in AC through armor, possible upgrade in weapons (War), along with the "Rogue buff triforce" (Bless for Sneak Attack, Shield of Faith for AC, Sanctuary for fleeing) and "Roguish helpers" (Detect spells) make it a worth enough investment to warrant even delaying access to Uncanny Dodge and Evasion.

E. How much do I really need competent ranged attack?
Main ways to improve your attacks...
1. Grab Sharpshooter: effective range 60 (daggers) for occasional, 120 (hand crossbow) for full ranged encounters.

2. Grab longbow proficiency (from best to worst imo): dip in War Cleric, Ranger (revised), dip into Fighter, dip into Ranger (PHB), Weapon Master feat.
Effective range 150 (600 with Sharpshooter), best for sustained encounters, worst for occasional needs (you have to drop your daggers and you can't make OA).

3. Grab a cantrip: either as AT, or with Spell Sniper. Anyways, it's probably the worst option because you can't apply Sneak Attack on it and it totally relies on casting stat.

Hope that helps. ;)

[Specter]

Well, just to reinforce what others said, 90% of the time you're better off using a ranged weapon than a ranged cantrip, because the first one lets you include Sneak Attack to it. So at level 5, a Fire Bolt will deal 2d10 (avg 11), while a shortbow will deal 4d6+4 (avg 18).

[JBPuffin]

Yeah, I'm definitely going weird with my AT - party needs wizard stuff more, so I'll probably be jumping over to Wizard for the remainder of his career (16 levels - we just hit level 4), giving him 9th level spells and 17th level casting along with some extra tricks to play with. 18 Int, 16 Dex as a VHume, not sure which tradition I want...with the level of tactics our group usually plays with, Diviner could be pretty fun (and I do love Portent as an ability).

[Shadowbane13]

Here is a link to my character sheet so far.
https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1184087

So with these stats and what not it would seem ideal to go warlock or wizard if I wanted a large spell options. I will probably just stick with AT all the way though. I think I'll drop fire bolt and pick up booming blade in its place next level. This way I can have both sword burst and BB. Play it situational really.

[DarkKnightJin]

Since BB requires you to make a melee attack to proc the effect, I would think you might be able to add your Sneak Attack onto it if you qualify for it. Which would be pretty sweet, not gonna lie.

Then you can Bonus Action Disengage, hop back as much as remaining movement allows, and see if they chase you and possibly kill themselves.

[Specter]

Since BB requires you to make a melee attack to proc the effect, I would think you might be able to add your Sneak Attack onto it if you qualify for it. Which would be pretty sweet, not gonna lie.

Then you can Bonus Action Disengage, hop back as much as remaining movement allows, and see if they chase you and possibly kill themselves.

Yes, totally possible. It's the best cantrip for an Arcane Trickster (possibly for all rogues).