The Nature of Vampires: Malack vs. Durkon

[CowardlyPaladin]

So rereading the comic, I've noticed that the giant has a very distinctive view of undead as a whole, as Redcloak said, they are just flesh animated by negative energy that pretend to be people, unlike in a lot of stories they are pretty clearly their own thing. Vampires are anything but sexy, with the corpse pale skin, red eyes, prominent fangs, and radiating negative energy, they aren't like Buffy Vamps who can walk among the living. And it seems to change them, the wights were wholly new creatures, and as we can see from Durkon's mind, the priest of Hel is only faking complexity, in reality he is like most of the undead we have encounter, kind of deliberately simplistic and emotionally stunted, spiteful and sort of...emotionally shallow. He can't understand the emotional logic of Durkon's memories, he never shows any real emotional maturity outside his devotion to Hel, he fails to understand Roy, he seems to be intellectually mature but emotionally just...not human. Again, they are not people, just negative energy pretending to be a person, masquerading complexity to hide a more horrifying monster underneath, a monster which is both inhuman and lacking the depth of a full person.

There are two exceptions to this in terms of undead.
Firstly Xykon seems to be the exact same person he was when he was a living, but Lichs are sort of special so I just assume that comes with the territory

Secondly there is Malack who just behaves...really differently than Vamp Durkon
Vamp Durkon is really single minded, emotionally shallow, and seems disgusted/bored by the behavior of the living, be it their biology or social interactions, the family gatherings make him almost as queasy as basic biological functions. The other vampires he created are similarly simplistic, they are spiteful, single minded and kinda...stupid. They feel like half formed people...because they literally are. A little bit like Qaar the Imp, they aren't really people.

Malack however seems like a person, an evil one but with the same emotional range and complexity as Tarquin, Redcloak or any of the other mature villains, he has nuanced feelings and feels conflicted. He is basically just a guy who happens to be a vampire, while vamp Durkon is more 'negative energy cos playing as a person'. In fact he displays far more emotional depth than many of the living characters, like Nale, and it is clear he is very thoughtful, he doesn't seem like negative energy parasite wearing a skin suit at all, in fact he displays nostalgia, grief, companionship, love, regret, and a desire for friendship, all traits the other vamps seem incapable of displaying. But we know he isn't the original, Malack refers to a resurrection spell as removing the person he is now, so we can presume there is a Lizardfolk shaman trapped in his skull as well.
So why is that? I have a few theories

1) When Vampires absorb all the memories of the host, it allows them to grow some level of complexity, so presumable if Vamp Durkon managed to get all of the memories, it would start to actually appreciate the feelings and emotions of the living, vampires just grow more mature as they age. This is supported by Malack's reflections on his "youth", he implies the younger him was more vicious and just ate people, but over 200 years has changed who he is, he desires a sibling now more than he did when he sort of had them. Presumably Durkon's parasite would similarly be reflecting on having a mother figure to look up too and comrades to fight with, though it would likely take more than 200 years considering Durkon's age.

2) Malack's parasite is just a more mature creature than Durkon, and the difference is simply the difference in depth with see in all the characters, I mean Xykon is a really simplistic person on purpose maybe Durkon's parasite is the same. The fact that all the other vampires behave the same kinda underminds that a bit.

3) The emotional devoplment stage of Vamp Durkon is tied to his sire, who died, and Malack just had more time with his. Vamp Durkon's minions are similarly affected. Vamp Durkon behaved very differently when he was a thrall vs. when he was independent.

4) Malack is actually a different type of creature, like a more powerful vampire or blessed by his god.

5) Conversely, the influence of Hel is making Durkon behave more undead and less like a person

Thoughts?

[Gift Jeraff]

So rereading the comic, I've noticed that the giant has a very distinctive view of undead as a whole, as Redcloak said, they are just flesh animated by negative energy that pretend to be people, unlike in a lot of stories they are pretty clearly their own thing.

I'm pretty sure I remember a post from Rich talking about how Redcloak's views on undead in that strip don't reflect in-universe reality or even his own views.

EDIT: I think I was thinking of this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19164058&postcount=91). While not quite what OP is saying, I think it does counter the general idea that "undead aren't real characters" which keeps popping up ever since the vampire mechanics were revealed.

[martianmister]

I'm on the camp that "Vampire spirit and original spirit became one after some time".

[2D8HP]

Greg/Durkula/Durkon* and his posse, are much younger vamps than was Malack, thus the difference.

[hroþila]

I'm on the camp that "Vampire spirit and original spirit became one after some time".
I don't think they literally become one, but I do think the vampire spirit eventually thinks and behaves as if they were. The distinction between their own memories and their host's pre-vampire memories probably ends up being pretty academic.

[Grey Watcher]

I don't think they literally become one, but I do think the vampire spirit eventually thinks and behaves as if they were. The distinction between their own memories and their host's pre-vampire memories probably ends up being pretty academic.

This is basically how I read it.

To make an analogy: Bob the pickpocket steals a nice pocketwatch one day. He decides not to fence it, but keep it for himself. Three decades later, he and his family are visiting the Grand Canyon, when the watch tumbles down into the chasm, shattering on the rocks below. Bob is not going talk about how he lost "that guy's watch." He's going to refer to it as "my watch."

So yeah, Malack refers to the Lizardfolk's life, memories, and identity as his own, because he stole them and he doesn't recognize the original Lizardfolk's soul's claim on them.

If (improbably) Greg doesn't get dusted within the next 24 hours, he'll go on to have the same attitude towards Durkon's self.

(There is some inconsistency when Greg refers to "eternal dormancy" which suggests Durkon's soul/consciousness remains distinct, and "merging" which implies Durkon's very soul will eventually be... consumed, I guess is the right word?)

[JeenLeen]

4) Malack is actually a different type of creature, like a more powerful vampire or blessed by his god.



I'm pretty sure that The Giant has posted that Malack and Durkon are the same type of vampire. Don't know the post, but I reckon someone can find a link to it (or you can search the index maintained in this subforum). The only difference being who made the vampiric spirit, since they come under the jurisdiction of different pantheons, but all the metaphysics/mechanics are still the same.

[factotum]

The Giant is on record as saying that there is only one type of vampire in the Stickverse, yes. As others have said, I think the differences between Durkula and Malack can be very easily explained by the latter having had more than 200 years of experience--even without the input of the original host soul, you have to think that someone who's been around that long will be a more complex personality than a spirit who's only existed for a few weeks.

[Fyraltari]

I agree that it is probably just because Nokrud is still very young (He and his gang are the youngest charcters in the entire comic !) that he is so stereotypically evil.

But I would not rule out "Malack and Greg simply have different personnalities like Xykon and Redcloak" that easily : the other vampires have only appeared in a couple of strips and always in the presence of an ennemy or of a superior, none of which are situations where they can express genuine introspection and reflexion, while Malack and Durkula both has/had a personnal connection with Durkon (and Tarquin) to show their selves.

In short we do not know team Vampire except the Thorsaken enough for this discussion and probably never will : they are but minions.

[CowardlyPaladin]

One thing to bear in mind which I should have mentioned in the first post is that when Malack raises Durkon, he hints that he will be interacting with Durkon...as a vampire, not a parasite who is dwelling inside of him but is a totally different person. If there is a merging process, perhaps there is a way to speed the experience up

[Jasdoif]

In fact he displays far more emotional depth than many of the living characters....This seems like a good reason not to assume undeadity has anything to do with whatever "emotional depth" means to you.


The Giant is on record as saying that there is only one type of vampire in the Stickverse, yes. As others have said, I think the differences between Durkula and Malack can be very easily explained by the latter having had more than 200 years of experience--even without the input of the original host soul, you have to think that someone who's been around that long will be a more complex personality than a spirit who's only existed for a few weeks.Indeed. I'll also point out that the same post suggests Hel took a personal interest in the powerful cleric that would become HPoH.

[CowardlyPaladin]

Both the behavior of the wights, and the inside of Durkon's head implies that undead have a different range of emotions than people, cause they are negative energy making flesh just look like people, but Malack is different, which I think has to do with him living long enough to sort of merge/absorb the original soul

[Kish]

The comic has never depicted a free-willed wight.

I think you're taking what Redcloak said as significantly more "conveying How It Works In Rich's Writing" and significantly less "what Redcloak believes, largely because he doesn't want to admit he's the slave of an undead sorcerer" than you should.

[Jasdoif]

Both the behavior of the wights, and the inside of Durkon's head implies that undead have a different range of emotions than people, cause they are negative energy making flesh just look like people, but Malack is different, which I think has to do with him living long enough to sort of merge/absorb the original soulIt's true that Malack and HPoH aren't the same person, much as Haley and Belkar aren't the same person. I think your perception has more to do with the amount of screentime we've seen with Malack reacting to a lot of activity he's not at the center of, giving a more rounded impression of his personality, while HPoH has pretty much only been seen while driving events in a single direction.

[137beth]

Both the behavior of the wights,

You mean, the wights that were kept under mind-control continuously, first by Tsukiko and then by Redcloak? That's not indicitive of how OOTS wights think or behave, since we haven't actually seen a non-enslaved wight. You might as well say humans are one-dimensional and lack independent thought, since Thanh was dominated by Tsukiko temporarily.

[Porthos]

One thing to bear in mind which I should have mentioned in the first post is that when Malack raises Durkon, he hints that he will be interacting with Durkon...as a vampire, not a parasite who is dwelling inside of him but is a totally different person. If there is a merging process, perhaps there is a way to speed the experience up

That's because Rich didn't want to spoil the surprise (and Rich has said as much somewhere).

There are handwaves, of course, to explain it away but when it boils right down to it is was a Writer's Cheat and should be seen as such. If one is trying to construct a theory about vampires, that is.

[hroþila]

That's because Rich didn't want to spoil the surprise (and Rich has said as much somewhere).

There are handwaves, of course, to explain it away but when it boils right down to it is was a Writer's Cheat and should be seen as such. If one is trying to construct a theory about vampires, that is.
There's no reason why withholding information for a big reveal shouldn't be compatible with not introducing contradictions into the story, and it just so happens there's a perfectly plausible theory that explains why Malack said those things that at first glance contradict how vampires work. No need to posit the author was cheating.

[martianmister]

One thing to bear in mind which I should have mentioned in the first post is that when Malack raises Durkon, he hints that he will be interacting with Durkon...as a vampire, not a parasite who is dwelling inside of him but is a totally different person. If there is a merging process, perhaps there is a way to speed the experience up

That's why I think thst their souls will merge and they become one soul after a while.

[Caldman]

Greg/Durkula/Durkon* and his posse, are much younger vamps than was Malack, thus the difference.

I think this is really the crux of the issue. Malack was a very old vampire, and as such was mature by the sheer virtue of age. Durkula acts young and immature, because... honestly? That's what he is. He's young. He's immature. He'll have to grow up the way everybody else does- the hard way.

[factotum]

That's why I think thst their souls will merge and they become one soul after a while.

I don't think so, for a couple of reasons:

1) Durkula talked about Durkon's soul going into "eternal dormancy". That, to my mind, implies the soul is still there, just dormant.

2) Malack said that resurrecting him would essentially be killing the person he is *now*. So, that implies the original non-vampire soul would be inserted into the resurrected body and he'd be back the way he was then, while the vampire soul...disappears? The actual D&D rules on resurrection also support this interpretation, because if you cast Resurrection on a 200-year-old corpse you're supposed to get back the person as they were the moment they died.

[unbeliever536]

One thing to bear in mind which I should have mentioned in the first post is that when Malack raises Durkon, he hints that he will be interacting with Durkon...as a vampire, not a parasite who is dwelling inside of him but is a totally different person. If there is a merging process, perhaps there is a way to speed the experience up


As for you, halfling ... I spare your life and release you from my dominion. My final token to the Durkon that was. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0879.html)

(emphasis added)

Some two panels after the line you are presumably referencing.

[Murk]

Also, we might see vampires as totally different persons than the host they live in, but that does not mean that the vampires themselves see it that way. The way Greg looks down on Durkon, but also how he claims to be born from his worst side, indicates to me that Greg thinks he is the same Durkon - but better.
I don't know if that's true, but it doesn't really matter as long as the vampires believe it is true. Since they share memories and a body, and maybe even most personality traits, they might see themselves as a sort of "grown up" version of the host; born from the host, similar except for the points where they are enhanced.

Malak then wouldn't see Greg as a parasite, a different person, but as a new, better Durkon - almost the same person he was friends with. "The Durkon that was" is just the lesser version that gets discarded after the upgrade.

[Grey Watcher]

There's also something to be said for remembering exactly what Malack wanted out of Greg: someone to talk shop with. So for Malack, the important parts of Durkon are his memories and knowledge, which Greg would acquire as he reviewed Durkon's memories.

So yeah, not technically the same guy that he shared tea with at Bleedingham, but close enough.

[Gift Jeraff]

Another factor to consider might be how long a vampire is enthralled. Durkon was freed early and Malack said that such a situation would be confusing for a vampire. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0879.html)

[Jaxzan Proditor]

For the record, the Giant's comments about vampirism (I think most, but not all, of them have been posted by now) can be found in my signature.

For the record, I think part of it is a personality difference driven by the differences in who the original Durkon and Malack were, and part of it is that the High Priest of Hel still has spent relatively little time with Durkon's memories.

[KarlMarx]

Is there also a possibility that their respective gods made the spirits differently, to fulfill different purposes?

Nergal, as far as we know, didn't need Malack for anything in particular, and may not have had much time to make vampires. Thus, he may have constructed a more complex, patient, and cunning spirit to advance his interests generally over time on his own initiative, which he largely did in his plans for the Empire of Blood, etc. after Tarquin's death.

On the other hand, Hel needed Greg ASAP to fulfill a specific goal. While he's plenty cunning in disguising himself, he also seems direct and oversuspicious (and thus unlikely to pick up on what he should be suspicious of). He's made to directly fulfill a specific task, and, if/when it's complete, Hel won't much care for the vampire servitor, or the rest of the former world. Thus, she made a less complex personality for a specific goal.

I have no idea whether this hypothesis fully squares with the Giant's comments mentioned above, but it seems reasonable in that its' a difference resulting from the differing needs of differing gods, inserted into the same metaphysical pattern.

[JeenLeen]

Another factor to consider might be how long a vampire is enthralled. Durkon was freed early and Malack said that such a situation would be confusing for a vampire. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0879.html)

I took that "confusion" as "might not be sure to be loyal to me or your old allies", i.e., too like the living Durkon. Perhaps with fear that the new vampire would react like how the vampire did react to Nale's offer of alliance.

Although, with what we know about vampires now, it seems odd that Malack would be too concerned about old traits still lingering--but maybe it isn't. He wouldn't know how Durkon's vamp-spirit would manifest.

[unbeliever536]

I took that "confusion" as "might not be sure to be loyal to me or your old allies", i.e., too like the living Durkon. Perhaps with fear that the new vampire would react like how the vampire did react to Nale's offer of alliance.

Although, with what we know about vampires now, it seems odd that Malack would be too concerned about old traits still lingering--but maybe it isn't. He wouldn't know how Durkon's vamp-spirit would manifest.

Actually, he might just have meant "confused". Given that Greg later mentions Durkon fighting him over stuff like Roy's name (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0948.html), it seems like it may have taken a few hours for him to actually absorb enough memories to figure out what was going on. Sure, he can absorb any memory he knows to call for effectively instantaneously, but he's not going to know what he needs right at the start, and Durkon wouldn't be inclined to help. Without at least a bit of lead time, he'd effectively be an amnesiac waking up in a middle of a dangerous dungeon filled with people claiming he should be loyal to them, with an almost guaranteed death waiting for him if he steps outside (due to the lack of shelter outside the pyramid, combined with the distance from Bleedingham and other cities). Could be a pretty confusing situation. He had marching orders from Hel that probably would have helped in that situation (and probably did, for that matter), but Malack didn't know that.

[Grey Watcher]

Actually, he might just have meant "confused". Given that Greg later mentions Durkon fighting him over stuff like Roy's name (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0948.html), it seems like it may have taken a few hours for him to actually absorb enough memories to figure out what was going on. Sure, he can absorb any memory he knows to call for effectively instantaneously, but he's not going to know what he needs right at the start, and Durkon wouldn't be inclined to help. Without at least a bit of lead time, he'd effectively be an amnesiac waking up in a middle of a dangerous dungeon filled with people claiming he should be loyal to them, with an almost guaranteed death waiting for him if he steps outside (due to the lack of shelter outside the pyramid, combined with the distance from Bleedingham and other cities). Could be a pretty confusing situation. He had marching orders from Hel that probably would have helped in that situation (and probably did, for that matter), but Malack didn't know that.

I wonder if the confusion might actually have something to do with the Rapid Vampirization spell. Under the normal rules, a vampire lies dormant for 1d4 days before it gets up and does vampiric things. I wonder if that's usually spent reading through the victim's memories so that the vampire spirit has at least the Cliff Notes version of their hosts biography.. (Although Greg does seem to think the process takes months. that might be fore shaking out various minor memories.)

[Free Radical]

We did see that vampires initially get to see just their host's very worst memories. It would kind of make sense if the personality of the new vampire formed around that single memory - there's nothing else to them at that point, after all. Durkula couldn't even really understand Durkon being affected by the rest of his life and able to feel any differently about the Dwarven people than he did at that low point in his life.

The new vampires are simplistic by necessity because they're obsessed with the single worst thing that happened to their host.

[pendell]

So rereading the comic, I've noticed that the giant has a very distinctive view of undead as a whole, as Redcloak said, they are just flesh animated by negative energy that pretend to be people, unlike in a lot of stories they are pretty clearly their own thing. Vampires are anything but sexy, with the corpse pale skin, red eyes, prominent fangs, and radiating negative energy, they aren't like Buffy Vamps who can walk among the living. And it seems to change them, the wights were wholly new creatures, and as we can see from Durkon's mind, the priest of Hel is only faking complexity, in reality he is like most of the undead we have encounter, kind of deliberately simplistic and emotionally stunted, spiteful and sort of...emotionally shallow. He can't understand the emotional logic of Durkon's memories, he never shows any real emotional maturity outside his devotion to Hel, he fails to understand Roy, he seems to be intellectually mature but emotionally just...not human. Again, they are not people, just negative energy pretending to be a person, masquerading complexity to hide a more horrifying monster underneath, a monster which is both inhuman and lacking the depth of a full person.

There are two exceptions to this in terms of undead.
Firstly Xykon seems to be the exact same person he was when he was a living, but Lichs are sort of special so I just assume that comes with the territory

Secondly there is Malack who just behaves...really differently than Vamp Durkon
Vamp Durkon is really single minded, emotionally shallow, and seems disgusted/bored by the behavior of the living, be it their biology or social interactions, the family gatherings make him almost as queasy as basic biological functions. The other vampires he created are similarly simplistic, they are spiteful, single minded and kinda...stupid. They feel like half formed people...because they literally are. A little bit like Qaar the Imp, they aren't really people.

Malack however seems like a person, an evil one but with the same emotional range and complexity as Tarquin, Redcloak or any of the other mature villains, he has nuanced feelings and feels conflicted. He is basically just a guy who happens to be a vampire, while vamp Durkon is more 'negative energy cos playing as a person'. In fact he displays far more emotional depth than many of the living characters, like Nale, and it is clear he is very thoughtful, he doesn't seem like negative energy parasite wearing a skin suit at all, in fact he displays nostalgia, grief, companionship, love, regret, and a desire for friendship, all traits the other vamps seem incapable of displaying. But we know he isn't the original, Malack refers to a resurrection spell as removing the person he is now, so we can presume there is a Lizardfolk shaman trapped in his skull as well.
So why is that? I have a few theories

1) When Vampires absorb all the memories of the host, it allows them to grow some level of complexity, so presumable if Vamp Durkon managed to get all of the memories, it would start to actually appreciate the feelings and emotions of the living, vampires just grow more mature as they age. This is supported by Malack's reflections on his "youth", he implies the younger him was more vicious and just ate people, but over 200 years has changed who he is, he desires a sibling now more than he did when he sort of had them. Presumably Durkon's parasite would similarly be reflecting on having a mother figure to look up too and comrades to fight with, though it would likely take more than 200 years considering Durkon's age.

2) Malack's parasite is just a more mature creature than Durkon, and the difference is simply the difference in depth with see in all the characters, I mean Xykon is a really simplistic person on purpose maybe Durkon's parasite is the same. The fact that all the other vampires behave the same kinda underminds that a bit.

3) The emotional devoplment stage of Vamp Durkon is tied to his sire, who died, and Malack just had more time with his. Vamp Durkon's minions are similarly affected. Vamp Durkon behaved very differently when he was a thrall vs. when he was independent.

4) Malack is actually a different type of creature, like a more powerful vampire or blessed by his god.

5) Conversely, the influence of Hel is making Durkon behave more undead and less like a person

Thoughts?


One quick point worth making is that vampire-Malack has been on the prime material plane for a very long time. Greg, by contrast, has been in this world less than a month.

So it's not surprising that the HPOH acts more like an outsider. If he had any existence before inhabiting Durkon's body, it was in Hel's domain. Not exactly conducive to learning to make friends and influence people.

Malack, by contrast, somewhere along the way stopped thinking of humans solely as a food source. Apparently he adventured alongside Tarquin for years and never went crazy blood vampire on his party. He dealt with Miron and -- what's her name, Laurin? The psionic? -- as if they were equals. He later entered human society and found a place within it. An evil society, to be sure, but he was able to survive in human society without being destroyed as a danger.

The mortal Nale couldn't manage that trick.

So I think the greatest difference between Malack and Greg is simply a difference in age and experience. Malack had been in that body so long he seemingly had forgotten that he wasn't the body's original inhabitant. Greg, by contrast, is still absorbing memories, still dealing with the original Durkon inside.

If Greg remains around long enough, it wouldn't surprise me if he grew and changed. If he's going to live in human society, he'll have to. The other option is to go live in a coffin far away from anyone, lest he get staked, and you can't accomplish many schemes from that vantage point.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[elros]

Durkon, but I"ll admit he became more interesting after he was turned into a Vampire! But his death (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0877.html) is probably my favorite comic in the entire strip, and the Giant also published 9-comics-in-9-days when it came out. All in all, the highlight of the entire series!

[Emanick]

Durkon, but I"ll admit he became more interesting after he was turned into a Vampire! But his death (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0877.html) is probably my favorite comic in the entire strip, and the Giant also published 9-comics-in-9-days when it came out. All in all, the highlight of the entire series!

Wrong thread?

[alwaysbebatman]

I'm guessing: misinterpreted the title of this thread. Malack never made it out of the wildcard block of the Favorite Character Tournament. He was a close runner up to Blackwing, though.

[littlebum2002]

1) When Vampires absorb all the memories of the host, it allows them to grow some level of complexity, so presumable if Vamp Durkon managed to get all of the memories, it would start to actually appreciate the feelings and emotions of the living, vampires just grow more mature as they age. This is supported by Malack's reflections on his "youth", he implies the younger him was more vicious and just ate people, but over 200 years has changed who he is, he desires a sibling now more than he did when he sort of had them. Presumably Durkon's parasite would similarly be reflecting on having a mother figure to look up too and comrades to fight with, though it would likely take more than 200 years considering Durkon's age.

I'm pretty sure this is the reason. It's the same reason why older people are generally more complex than preteens.


I don't think they literally become one, but I do think the vampire spirit eventually thinks and behaves as if they were. The distinction between their own memories and their host's pre-vampire memories probably ends up being pretty academic.

I would love to see what happens if you tried to True Resurrect Malack's original host after being dormant for centuries. How much of the vampire's life would he remember?

[Quebbster]

I would love to see what happens if you tried to True Resurrect Malack's original host after being dormant for centuries. How much of the vampire's life would he remember?
The best story would probably be if he could remember it all but had no real Connection to the memories since he had no particular Agency in them.
If Durkon gets resurrected he would probably have a thing to say about the vampire's action in his body though.

[factotum]

I would love to see what happens if you tried to True Resurrect Malack's original host after being dormant for centuries. How much of the vampire's life would he remember?

I suspect, none at all. I find it extremely hard to believe that nobody has ever resurrected a destroyed vampire, and if they had done that, surely the knowledge of how vampires work would be a bit more widespread than it seems to be?

[georgie_leech]

I suspect, none at all. I find it extremely hard to believe that nobody has ever resurrected a destroyed vampire, and if they had done that, surely the knowledge of how vampires work would be a bit more widespread than it seems to be?

The subset of people that both have access to high-level divine magic, who nevertheless fall prey to a vampire, might be smaller than you'd think. :smalltongue:

[Gift Jeraff]

I suspect, none at all. I find it extremely hard to believe that nobody has ever resurrected a destroyed vampire, and if they had done that, surely the knowledge of how vampires work would be a bit more widespread than it seems to be?


Being a vampire is super-rare; being returned to life after being a vampire so you can share the logistics of how it worked from your point of view in such a way that it entered a general body of knowledge that people would have learned about in the course of their education is simply not something that has ever occurred.......................

[Riftwolf]

Just a quick thought on Malack getting true rezzed; he mentioned how he'd killed his brothers after his transformation. Whether unintentionally or not, the vampire spirit wiped out the people most likely to want the real Malack rezzed. My personal headcanon is now that Durkons long association with his close friends was an anomaly; normally vampires will off their hosts loved ones to prevent the chance of true resurrection.

[Chronos]

By analogy: You know about elephants, right? You certainly know that they're very big and strong, and that an elephant could easily kill any human if it tried to. You probably also know that they're very smart as animals go, and that they're usually fairly peaceful. But how much do you know about how they come to be? Do you know, for instance, what the gestation period is for an elephant? That information is out there and available, and anyone who's taken an interest in the question (even kids who just happen to be interested in elephants) is likely to know it. But most people don't, and there are probably even some professional biologists and naturalists who don't.

Similarly, in a world like Stickworld, everyone knows some basic facts about vampires: They're evil, they prey on people, they suck blood, they're repelled by garlic and holy symbols. And the information on how they interact with their body's original soul is out there, somewhere, available to anyone who takes a particular interest in the question, like the low-level cleric that the vampire had to dominate to prevent him spilling the beans. But most people don't know it, even including some fairly high-level clerics.

[Quebbster]

Around two years I believe.

[NontheistCleric]

We did see that vampires initially get to see just their host's very worst memories. It would kind of make sense if the personality of the new vampire formed around that single memory - there's nothing else to them at that point, after all.

We don't know that. We know that that's what the HPoH considers himself to be built upon, but having never seen any other vampire's inner world, we can't say that goes for all of them. After all, it's not as if every person who gets turned into a vampire will have some great tragedy in their life with the potential to define them.

For example, perhaps Malack initially witnessed memories of his brothers and the meaningful times the soul formerly in control of his body spent with them. That would explain why he places such a great value on his family and can form lasting bonds with others.


Around two years I believe.

Well, he did say that even children have the potential to know that fact. It's neither particularly impressive or relevant here.

[unbeliever536]

The first thing Malack did after becoming a vampire was eat his brothers. He cares about family generally, but his mortal brothers meant nothing to him and still do.

[factotum]

The first thing Malack did after becoming a vampire was eat his brothers.

Going to need a [citation needed] on that. Malack certainly said that he remembered the taste of his brothers' blood more than any familial connection, but there's no indication that he fed on them instantly after becoming a vampire--it could have been days, weeks, or even years later that he did that.

[unbeliever536]

Going to need a [citation needed] on that. Malack certainly said that he remembered the taste of his brothers' blood more than any familial connection, but there's no indication that he fed on them instantly after becoming a vampire--it could have been days, weeks, or even years later that he did that.

I'll cite my poor memory of Malack's exact words in the scene. In any case, my point was that his brothers were brought up specifically in contrast to his feelings towards Durkon / a vampire based on Durkon.

[Kish]

"When a new vampire spirit springs into existence, the first memories it absorbs are the lowest, darkest moments of the host's life." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1007.html)

Greg may have been lying, though I can't see why he would, but there's definitely no "that's what happened for Greg but there's no reason to think it happened for any other vampire" thing here.

[Fyraltari]

It is worth noting that Greg rebirth was sped up by Malack's spell to be immediate rather than take three days. Maybe those days are supposed to give the Vampire's personnality time to form by absobing many of the host's memory without having to worry about aanything else. In the real world children that have to work or are given important responsabilities early on or are in any way "denied their childhood" often end up having psychological problems later in life. Maybe there issomething likethat happening to Darkon.