Asmodeus is fighting a god, how does he prep?

[flamewolf393]

Im running a game where my player is a god, the only god. At some point hes going to have to enter Asmodeus's home realm and kill him. Asmodeus knows this is coming and is prepared for it. Its a "technically non-divine" asmodeus, so the power difference is obvious, but he has been watching the god rise since he was born mortal. He knows his personality, fighting style, powers and tactics.

What kind of preparations should Asmodeus have? Contigent/permanancy'd spells, what artifacts would he be wearing/weilding, opening tactics, etc?

Edit: Asmodeus needs to win this fight, rather than avoid it. The god is powerful, but does not have *My will be done* level of power. Definate caster type with leadership and good improvisation

[GrayDeath]

If he is the only God, does that mean EVERYBODY worships him?

Ergo Divine Rank is what?

Aside from at will alter reality, which autobeats just about everything, what does he usually use to fight his big bad enemies?


Because my tactic as nonDivine Asmodeus would be: Hide/and/or strike a deal.

[Afgncaap5]

I would fight with leverage and legalism if I were Asmodeus. If we can assume that the deity doesn't have "speak and it is so" levels of powers, I'd use secret details of the mortal's life, possibly threatened loved ones. Asmodeus might not have the power of a god, but the resources of Hell have a lot to choose from. "Surrender and your three best friends from childhood can leave this domain" might be a decent start. I'd also suggest taking a page from Ursula's book and try to get some sort of agreement that the deity might not recognize, one that is "legal, binding, and completely unbreakable, even for you." Let the contract be Asmodeus' shield, if possible.

[flamewolf393]

If he is the only God, does that mean EVERYBODY worships him?

Ergo Divine Rank is what?

Aside from at will alter reality, which autobeats just about everything, what does he usually use to fight his big bad enemies?


Because my tactic as nonDivine Asmodeus would be: Hide/and/or strike a deal.

Its a world where asmodeus killed all the gods, the universe has nearly died, and this dude is the first to rise back to godhood. Thats why hes the only one :P

Usual tactics are unlimited number of spells per day, with a backup of basic divine bull****. No alter reality cause he hasnt taken that salient ability.

[Telonius]

I think this would be approximately how it goes down.


Asmo: "Mephistopheles, you've annoyed me for the last time. I challenge you to a duel, winner takes Nessus. I'm right here, unless you're chicken."

Mephisto: "You're on, dude!" ::Hellfire::

Asmo: "Alack, I am defeated. Welp, there you go, man." ::poofs off to chill in some other plane for a bit::

::other god shows up::

Mephisto: "Uhh ...."



EDIT: If he absolutely has to fight (and destroy) the guy, he's going to want to pull every cheesy rules-legal trick in the book. He'll throw every possible minion at him. Levistus gets let out of the ice, any secret weapons are brought forth. He kills this guy with extreme prejudice.

[GrayDeath]

I think this would be approximately how it goes down.


Asmo: "Mephistopheles, you've annoyed me for the last time. I challenge you to a duel, winner takes Nessus. I'm right here, unless you're chicken."

Mephisto: "You're on, dude!" ::Hellfire::

Asmo: "Alack, I am defeated. Welp, there you go, man." ::poofs off to chill in some other plane for a bit::

::other god shows up::

Mephisto: "Uhh ...."



EDIT: If he absolutely has to fight (and destroy) the guy, he's going to want to pull every cheesy rules-legal trick in the book. He'll throw every possible minion at him. Levistus gets let out of the ice, any secret weapons are brought forth. He kills this guy with extreme prejudice.


If he didn`t take alter Reality, and somehow Asmodeus cheesed/manipulated/lucked some/all other gods to death, then probably this, yeah. ;)

[Yogibear41]

If Asmodeus wiped out the other deities who had been around for god knows how long(its so punny ha ha) why is he having trouble with a young upstart who has just come into his divine abilities?

I feel like we are missing part of the story here.

[Mordaedil]

Does your player character have any loved ones?

[Vhaidara]

Asmo: "Mephistopheles, you've annoyed me for the last time. I challenge you to a duel, winner takes Nessus. I'm right here, unless you're chicken."

Mephisto: "You're on, dude!" ::Hellfire::

Asmo: "Alack, I am defeated. Welp, there you go, man." ::poofs off to chill in some other plane for a bit::

::other god shows up::

Mephisto: "Uhh ...."

This is too canon.

[denthor]

Red fel why are you and your uncle getting into a fight?

Red fel. We spoke about this. First strikes do not strictly give you an advantage.

Red fel do you need an ally?

[khadgar567]

Well lets make sure he gets it. Red fel Red fel Red fel and +1 to let mepistotales handle the guy plan

[daremetoidareyo]

Why not make a deal? New god gets lots of power but has to ensure that asmodeus has a way of accessing souls. Surely there needs to be a punishment for mortals not willing to pledge fealty to this new god on the block. That is where Asmodeus comes in.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Asmodeus is backed by thousands of pit fiends with maximum hp and literal thousands of years of combat training and preparation. He prepares by setting up a contingent teleportation circle around himself that allows buffed-to-the-gills pit fiends to charge out and destroy whatever Asmodeus points at.

If your player is capable of defeating a thousand pit fiends with Persistent buffs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?201638-Team-Primeval), Asmodeus needs to resort to epic magic, artifacts, and other tricks. Maybe the Pact Primeval carries some provision that protects Asmodeus.

[denthor]

If it is a true fight.

AsMO should have his ruby wand and armor. Allowing messages to fly from his home. Imps do this . Allow the nebie to screw up on his own.

Just happens that the he'll hounds are roaming the plane looking for this fool.

AsMO true intended purpose is to make him Lawful then Evil. This brings him under control.

If a fight does ensue just roll it out one on one. See who wins.

[TheBeggarDwarf]

Hmmm....if Asmodeus has killed the other gods, perhaps he has access to some fragments of their souls/consciousnesses? He could strike a deal with the vestige of a war or murder deity, perhaps binding it's soul to, say...an adamantine colossus. The colossus gains the deity's mental stats and a divine rank of 0 or 1. It's immune to all magic, and could perhaps be given hellfire-based abilities like the Hellfire Engine in Tyrants of the Nine Hells. Asmodeus is a careful planner, and is more than willing to throw the practically exhaustible resources of Hell against an opponent. He has an ace in the Pact Primeval, as well. It underpins not only his own power, but the whole of the universe as well. If he were to dissolve his protections and threaten to destroy it, all creation would be undone, reverting back into Primordial chaos. He's almost certainly willing to undo everything if he can't win, because admitting defeat and allowing the universe to be ruled by anyone other than him is something he could never tolerate.

[TheBeggarDwarf]

Sorry, your post had me curious, so I went and ran through the books just to see if any other thoughts might occur to me. I note that Tyrantssays that the Pact Primeval is indestructible and that there are two other copies (in Celestia and Mechanus), but I wonder if it could be dissolved? If Asmodeus were to simply renounce the Pact, I would think it would have same effect...though you get into the argument of whether the ultimate embodiment of Lawful Evil could commit such a Chaotic act. I guess it comes down to whether the Evil or the Lawful portion of his alignment is the greater.

I was also thinking that Asmodeus would not want the initial encounters to take place in Nessus. He'll want to wear him down at a distance first. You can only enter the Nine Hells through the first layer, so it's already a slog (unless some of the other lords go turncoat). I could imagine Asmodeus striking a deal with some of demon lords involved in the Blood War to join forces against a common enemy when your player arrives on Hell's front porch. Or, he might try opening gates between the mortal realm and the Abyss, particularly near areas filled with your player's worshipers, to allow two enemies to fight each other and be weakened. Assuming your player would actively try to protect them, of course.

[Wraith]

Asmo: "Alack, I am defeated. Welp, there you go, man." ::poofs off to chill in some other plane for a bit::

I was thinking along some similar, though perhaps slightly more drastic lines:


Asmodeus: "Fight? Okay, that's fine. I don't want to wreck this place though, it's where I keep all of my stuff. Here, step through into my personal pocket-plane and we'll duel there so nothing gets broken, okay?"

*Casts Greater Planeshift*

Asmodeus: "There we go. Sorry about the mess, but that's what happens when you create a personal pocket-plane like this one, which I named Hasturhasturhastur. Also, bye!"

*Casts Greater Planeshift. Nearby wigit casts Contingency: Greater Dimensional Anchor. Problem solves itself.*

:smalltongue:

[Telonius]

Another option: I hear Sigil is lovely this time of year. :smallbiggrin:

[Nifft]

I'm assuming that the god PC somehow dealt with whatever Asmodeus used to kill off all the previous gods.

If that is NOT the case, then the first thing Asmodeus ought to do is dust that McGuffin off and oil it up.

[Krobar]

Its a world where asmodeus killed all the gods, the universe has nearly died, and this dude is the first to rise back to godhood. Thats why hes the only one :P

Usual tactics are unlimited number of spells per day, with a backup of basic divine bull****. No alter reality cause he hasnt taken that salient ability.

How did he prep for a fight with all the other gods?

[ATHATH]

I'm assuming that the god PC somehow dealt with whatever Asmodeus used to kill off all the previous gods.

If that is NOT the case, then the first thing Asmodeus ought to do is dust that McGuffin off and oil it up.
Perhaps it wasn't a MacGuffin- maybe Asmodeus got rid of the other gods by pitting them against each other until there was only a few, weakened ones left for him to mop up.

What I'm more concerned about is why Asmodeus allowed this new god to get to this level of power. Is this all part of some master plan?

[flappeercraft]

Oh, it definitely is part of a master plan, getting a rising lone god who has had no divine master to teach him how to wield this power is the perfect thing for someone like Asmodeus. Just think of how easy it would be to manipulate a single god compared to all others, Asmodeus wouldn't even truly fight him, he would pretend to, pretend to be permanently destroyed and just pull his strings and use him as a proxy to control everything even further behind the scenes and if this God ever rebels and finds out, it is just one god to deal with as opposed to 20 or more.

[Red Fel]

Red fel why are you and your uncle getting into a fight?

Red fel. We spoke about this. First strikes do not strictly give you an advantage.

Red fel do you need an ally?


Well lets make sure he gets it. Red fel Red fel Red fel and +1 to let mepistotales handle the guy plan

Sheesh, I'm here, I'm here. Busy day. Spent all day at a continuing professional education program.

Yes. Even Red Fel attends CPEs. I try to keep on the cutting edge of Evil. And it was a great program! We covered applied human psychology (read: torture and interrogation tactics), advanced political theory (read: how to make tyranny work), and legal research (read: ... legal research).

I may be Evil, but I value proper attribution of citations. Speaking of attribution...


Im running a game where my player is a god, the only god. At some point hes going to have to enter Asmodeus's home realm and kill him. Asmodeus knows this is coming and is prepared for it. Its a "technically non-divine" asmodeus, so the power difference is obvious, but he has been watching the god rise since he was born mortal. He knows his personality, fighting style, powers and tactics.

What kind of preparations should Asmodeus have? Contigent/permanancy'd spells, what artifacts would he be wearing/weilding, opening tactics, etc?

Edit: Asmodeus needs to win this fight, rather than avoid it. The god is powerful, but does not have *My will be done* level of power. Definate caster type with leadership and good improvisation

Really, it boils down to two questions. One of those questions has already been asked: How did Asmodeus kill the other gods? I'm guessing any strategy that works decisively well against an entire pantheon of millenia-old beings will work equally well, if not better, against a single inexperienced godling.

Then again, as the philosopher Andre the Giant once opined, one uses different stratagems when opposed to the masses than one does when confronting a single foe. I may be paraphrasing.

Second question: How canonical is this Asmodeus? Other than his successful campaign against deities, how close is he to his canonical source? Because if he's close to canon, the answer is neither to fight this godling, nor to avoid fighting this godling - it's to go completely Sun Tzu up in here.

Asmodeus is the archetypical schemer, the master strategist and planner. He would never face an opponent in a fair fight, but to be fair, he wouldn't really arrange it as a fight at all. What others have described - wearing down the enemy with numerous encounters before he even enters Nessus, offering him the chance to take his loved ones out of the Pit and leave, combinations of attrition, emotional blackmail and moral decay - these are the sorts of weapons he uses.

A climactic battle against Asmodeus is necessarily anticlimactic. Once it turns into a fight, it's just another boring boss battle. That's a crunch question, and I can't help you there.

Moreover, Asmodeus would want it that way. If he had no other choice but to fight, then Asmodeus - the quintessential mastermind and hand in the shadows - has failed at being Asmodeus. He deserves the punishment of having to dirty his hands. But by the same token, if a foe were to crush him, that foe deserves to have the satisfaction of an epic victory ripped away from him - no glorious serenade awaits, no truly epic battle, no clash of soul and steel - just a mundane fight against another mundane boss, ending with a mundane deathblow. Even in death, Asmodeus will rob his enemy of joy.

The point is, Asmodeus isn't going to want this to be a proper fight. He'll want this to be blackmail. Either he can manipulate this godling into leaving in disgrace, or Asmodeus will feign defeat in order to manipulate this guy from a position of perceived subjugation. (You'd be surprised how good a "minion" is at warping your sense of morality.) Unless Asmodeus is certain of an absolute and decisive victory - and from the sound of it, he's not - he doesn't want to actually fight this guy.

And if you're saying, "No, it has to be a legitimate face-to-face battle" that basically ignores who Asmodeus is. It's basically another character at that point, calling himself Asmodeus. And that's fine - if you want that, you're running the game and you're entitled to it. But I can't tell you how you should play your OC.

[Bohandas]

*Do gods get power from worshippers in this campaign? If so, and given that it's a newly risen god with presumably a small base, sending minions to eliminate the god's followers might be a good strategy.

*Also, Asmodeus is bonded to the plane of Baator, he is its lord and master and presumably can reshape it's terrain (or at least the terrain of Nessus) to the same degree that Abyssal lords can reshape their layers. This could be a major tactical advantage.

*If he could somehow suspend the astral connections on Baator necessary for teleportation/plane-shifting it wouls force the god to first punch through the heavily fortified city of Dis

*Presumably Asmodeus is clever enough to not let the god get a chance to rest between pu ching through frontline defenses and confronting Asmodeus himself; send expendable minions to attack him if he tries to sleep.

*some of the evil artifacts from BoVD would be useful if he could get his hands on them, particularly the Angelwing Razor, which ignores all damage reduction (also I imagine if he had the Angelwing Razor he would chain it to his person somehow to prevent the possibility of it from being knocked from his grasp and picked up by an enemy who could then use it against him)

*does the deity have any subtypes? Creatures with multiple subtypes are heavily vulnerable to bane weapons. You said he was once mortal so he probably has at least one subtype, if he's non-neutral he probably has one or two additional subtypes. A +1 (alignment) bane (alignment) bane (type of humanoid) bane weapon will hit him as a +7 weapon and deal an extra 6d6 points of damage, and a +4 (any applicable subtype) bane weapon will hit as +6 and therefore bypass epic damage reduction

[Spore]

The obvious solution is hordes of increasingly more powerful minions. As the hero enters his lair, giving a speech about the value of friendship, Asmodeus reveals his new allies who help him defeat this god for a fraction of his divine essence and portfolios. The scene concludes by Asmodeus perverting the quote about friendship: "Friendship is for life, but alliances are for winning."

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Asmodeus would avoid a direct confrontation. He would plot and scheme and undermine the enemy's power and influence for years, decades even. He would put their lovedones' faces on his minions. He would have Simulacrums, illusions, and similar to try to convince the opponent he's been defeated. If the god does catch him on his own turf, he's still in control of his planar realm. Between effects like Reverse Gravity and Downdraft (SC) to force the opponent to move, and just being able to cause a ravine the opponent is cast into to close around them, trapping them forever, I don't think there's much chance he can be defeated under these circumstances. Don't forget to include permanent Dimensional Lock and Private Sanctum effects where he traps the god.

[Sagetim]

I think he would offer the nascent godling a job.

No, seriously, think about it. He gets nothing if he kills this god, but if he gives the guy a fair shake (a lawful action), that makes him a subordinate, he can start playing a very long game of gradually allowing his new hire to corrupt himself. He has eternity, he can wait.

And if, instead of greeting this new godling with fire and sword, armies of devils, and so on and so on, he greets him with a well appointed but not ostentatious office, from the other side of a nice desk and with very clear and straightforward paperwork, he can proceed to mind game the godling into falling to evil all on his own. Then, if/when the godling breaks that very straightforward contract, Azzy can proceed to try and enforce the penalties or what have you.

After all, not everyone is suited to living for hundreds of years, and with no peers to socialize with, this newly risen god is going to wind up having to eventually confront a lot of mortal level psychological issues. Now, he might manage to overcome those problems...but I don't think I've seen any deity in any pantheon, save perhaps one of the Pathfinder ones, who has actually come across as having reached that level of maturity and emotional self control and awareness. So all Azzy would really have to do is buy time and wait. He could even perform any number of apparently good acts in the pursuit of long term and greater evil. After all, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but the path to heaven isn't paved with bad ones.

Is there any reason that Azzy can't come across as a personable, professional, respectable, and downright nice individual? Because as long as he can act that way when interacting the the godling, he can potentially set himself up for a long term win.