Same Proficiencies from 2 different sources help

[lord4571]

ok so i tried searching this up and got an answer but it left me with another question.

so you get proficiencies from 2 sources and pg 125 PHB does say if that happens you couse the same kind of skill or tool to be profincient in.

my question is if its a skill, like deception, what would be another same skill? or tool? (also already have disguise and forgery kit pros.)

Example: Human variant charlatan warlock
gain *deception* and arcane from warlock
gain *deception* and slight of hand from charlatan
(so you go back to the class and pick another skill to replace deception from warlock)
bouns feat: you chose Actor which gives you *deception* and performance

still at character creation, what do you do about feat Actor's Deception and Charlatan's Deception?

[Waterdeep Merch]

Per page 125 of the PHB, you get to choose a different skill any time you have a duplicate. Since I *believe* you'd count racial and background perks first, that means you'd get to choose one skill amongst anything. Then, you'd need to pick something other than deception from the warlock list, unless you can't because there aren't enough skills available- in which case, you'd yet again get to choose from any possible skill. I don't think that can apply unless you're a half-elf in a game with a free feat and you picked Skilled, however. And that's a weird way of causing that interaction, since you'd need to deliberately spend your Skilled feat/racial skills on warlock skills, essentially causing things to work as though you'd done it backwards.

[ZorroGames]

Just build a custom background (it is mentioned in the PHB in the backgrounds section.)

[DarkKnightJin]

Just build a custom background (it is mentioned in the PHB in the backgrounds section.)

Not so much custom as you can shift some skills or languages around if they'd fit your character better.

Let's say your Soldier is more.inclined to use Persuasion than Intimidation. Nothing is stopping you from swapping the 2 skills. Save maybe a DM that's being uptight about it.

[DivisibleByZero]

Per page 125 of the PHB, you get to choose a different skill any time you have a duplicate. Since I *believe* you'd count racial and background perks first, that means you'd get to choose one skill amongst anything. Then, you'd need to pick something other than deception from the warlock list, unless you can't because there aren't enough skills available- in which case, you'd yet again get to choose from any possible skill. I don't think that can apply unless you're a half-elf in a game with a free feat and you picked Skilled, however. And that's a weird way of causing that interaction, since you'd need to deliberately spend your Skilled feat/racial skills on warlock skills, essentially causing things to work as though you'd done it backwards.

FIFY. If you get a duplicate skill, you get to choose *any* skill to replace it with. It doesn't have to be a class option. Same goes for tools.
Choosing a BG which has a skill/tool that you were already planning on taking is a great way to free up a skill choice to take any other skill/tool that you wanted, but which isn't a class option.
Example: Want to play a Dwarven Cleric with Perception? Perception isn't on the Cleric list. But History is, and you might want it. So choose the Sage BG, grab History via BG, then choose History from Cleric. But you already have it, so now you can choose any skill you want. And you take Perception with that choice.


Not so much custom as you can shift some skills or languages around if they'd fit your character better.

Let's say your Soldier is more.inclined to use Persuasion than Intimidation. Nothing is stopping you from swapping the 2 skills. Save maybe a DM that's being uptight about it.

The BGs in the book(s) are examples. AL play where things need to be documented and referenced when needed, or tables where the DM doesn't realize this fact, are the only times that you should ever get any backlash from it. Creating your own is literally stated in the PHB as an option, and the BGs listed are only examples.

"The sample backgrounds in this chapter provide both concrete benefits (features, proficiencies, and languages) and roleplaying suggestions."

[Millstone85]

so you get proficiencies from 2 sources and pg 125 PHB does say if that happens you couse the same kind of skill or tool to be profincient in.

my question is if its a skill, like deception, what would be another same skill? or tool? (also already have disguise and forgery kit pros.)It is not the same kind of skill or tool.

It is the same kind of proficiency, which is either skill proficiency or tool proficiency.


Example: Human variant charlatan warlock
gain *deception* and arcane from warlock
gain *deception* and slight of hand from charlatan
(so you go back to the class and pick another skill to replace deception from warlock)
bouns feat: you chose Actor which gives you *deception* and performance
I *believe* you'd count racial and background perks firstIt is actually supposed to go race, then class, then background. I agree it doesn't make sense flavor-wise.

So here that means:
* racial bonus feat: you chose Actor which gives you Deception and Performance
* gain Arcana and another skill proficiency from warlock (not Deception, you silly)
* gain Deception and Sleight of Hand from charlatan, but replace Deception

However, the first line is actually incorrect. The Actor feat gives you advantage on Charisma (Deception) and Charisma (Performance) checks when trying to pass yourself off as a different person. It doesn't give you proficiency in those skills.

[Arial Black]

RAW, you don't need an excuse!

Not a variant rule, not Rule 0, not the DM being kind; it is the normal rule that you can choose any background and choose any two skills to go with it. All I would ask is that you can justify it for your character by explaining how your background gives you that skill, but that isn't RAW.

RAW is:-"You might want to tweak some of the features of a background so it better fits your character or the campaign setting. To customize a background, you can replace one feature with any other one, choose any two skills, and choose a total of two tool proficiencies or languages from the sample backgrounds."

It's not an optional rule. It is the rule. You can choose any two skills, and the only RAW justification you need is that you 'want to'.

As far as JC is concerned, he wants you to have any two skills you like, and whatever combination of two tool proficiencies and allowed languages that you want, and he wants you to tie it to a backstory.

[Tanarii]

The books are contradictory. Per the DMG, backgrounds are the purview of the DM. Per the PHB, customizing backgrounds are the purview of the player. It's an ask your DM situation. If you are the DM, it's a you decide situation. If you're playing in AL ... uh, not sure what the AL rules on backgrounds are.

My personal rules as a DM are strict. Player can let me know if they want to swap something out that makes perfect sense, like an Alchemist Sage wanting to trade a Language for Alchemists' Supplies, or a Professor (of Religion) wanting to swap Arcana for Religion. But they can't just choose any two skills and any two tools/languages and a feature.

I also require that class skills be taken from the class skill list after background skills are fixed. You can't say 'the background/race skill is on my class list, so I'm choosing from the entire list'. I like strong class archetypes, or a background that doesn't line up with the archetype to do something out of archetype.

As you can see, most posters on the forums aren't strict at all. They prefer to use the PHB as the basis for their ruling on the matter.

[Pex]

The books are contradictory. Per the DMG, backgrounds are the purview of the DM. Per the PHB, customizing backgrounds are the purview of the player. It's an ask your DM situation. If you are the DM, it's a you decide situation. If you're playing in AL ... uh, not sure what the AL rules on backgrounds are.

My personal rules as a DM are strict. Player can let me know if they want to swap something out that makes perfect sense, like an Alchemist Sage wanting to trade a Language for Alchemists' Supplies, or a Professor (of Religion) wanting to swap Arcana for Religion. But they can't just choose any two skills and any two tools/languages and a feature.

I also require that class skills be taken from the class skill list after background skills are fixed. You can't say 'the background/race skill is on my class list, so I'm choosing from the entire list'. I like strong class archetypes, or a background that doesn't line up with the archetype to do something out of archetype.

As you can see, most posters on the forums aren't strict at all. They prefer to use the PHB as the basis for their ruling on the matter.

So my ability to be proficient at skills depends on who is DM that day.
:smallyuk:

[Arial Black]

As you can see, most posters on the forums aren't strict at all. They prefer to use the PHB as the basis for their ruling on the matter.

You mean, they look at the rulebook to see what the rules are? :smallsmile:

The way you run it is up to you, but you must be aware that you are not running it RAW. That's fine, but doesn't help answer a rules question.

[DivisibleByZero]

The books are contradictory. Per the DMG, backgrounds are the purview of the DM. Per the PHB, customizing backgrounds are the purview of the player. It's an ask your DM situation.

Everything in 5e is an Ask Your DM situation.
In this particular case, swapping proficiencies is perfectly viable, and is basically in the hands of the player, as per the PHB. In the case of creating a *new and customized* BG, it's in the DM's hands solely.
Big creations are in the hands of the DM. Small changes are in the hands of the player. But just like every single aspect of this game, the DM has final say over literally everything, because it's the DM's game and it's the DM's world.
The PHB and DMG aren't contradictory at all. They're describing different circumstances. The circumstance where the players have control is described in the PHB. The circumstances where the players do not have control are described in the DMG. It almost seems like they did it that way for some mysterious reason which is just out of our grasp to comprehend....