Making Elves a bit different

[Arastel]

Hello everyone, I'm trying to make Elves in my setting a bit more atypical and would like some help. I haven't posted in the world building forum before so I'm not sure if this is quite the right place.

So from my quick research on the web and amongst my friends I've found that most people have a perception that Elves in fantasy or D&D tend to like nature and value protecting it. My goal is to retain this outer appearance/behaviour (to some extent), but change their reason for doing so. Hopefully my players will then get a surprise when they learn about or investigate the Elves, and this will excite them to go and explore/learn about more things in the setting. Also I'm a bit sick of 'normal' elves.



So my question is: does the following depiction of elves make sense or are there big inconsistencies?

Elves are fundamentally different from humans in that their mindset/value is not on growth or power or control, but instead on peace and continuity of the same things. A long time ago, after a lengthy struggle to suppress hostile creatures which shared their homeland, the elves had a period where their culture flourshed and they mastered their art and music.

But due to time and some outside influence of other races, their environment and arts began to slowly change. This change was not received well by most of the elves, due to their nature of consistency. And so they used their magic to prevent the world they lived in from growing or moving forward, allowing their culture to remain as it was. This is why they use their magic to tend to nature, not to make it flourish for its own good, but to stop it from moving away from where they want it.

The culture that they so highly value could be considered barbaric or uncivilized in the 'present time' of the setting. They are very tribal, using simple woodwind instruments and drums for ritual dances. They are highly tattooed and practice magic which is 'voodoo' like. Others might call it blood-magic, usually they use the blood of animals caught in a great hunt (one reason they use their magic to preserve the natural world is so there will be sufficient prey for their magic, it works in positive feedback), but if they can't get prey the Elves are prepared to use their own blood to fuel their rituals to keep their homeland from changing.

Does this sound like a good change? Thanks for any feedback!

[redwizard007]

Hello everyone, I'm trying to make Elves in my setting a bit more atypical and would like some help. I haven't posted in the world building forum before so I'm not sure if this is quite the right place.

So from my quick research on the web and amongst my friends I've found that most people have a perception that Elves in fantasy or D&D tend to like nature and value protecting it. My goal is to retain this outer appearance/behaviour (to some extent), but change their reason for doing so. Hopefully my players will then get a surprise when they learn about or investigate the Elves, and this will excite them to go and explore/learn about more things in the setting. Also I'm a bit sick of 'normal' elves.



So my question is: does the following depiction of elves make sense or are there big inconsistencies?

Elves are fundamentally different from humans in that their mindset/value is not on growth or power or control, but instead on peace and continuity of the same things. A long time ago, after a lengthy struggle to suppress hostile creatures which shared their homeland, the elves had a period where their culture flourshed and they mastered their art and music.

But due to time and some outside influence of other races, their environment and arts began to slowly change. This change was not received well by most of the elves, due to their nature of consistency. And so they used their magic to prevent the world they lived in from growing or moving forward, allowing their culture to remain as it was. This is why they use their magic to tend to nature, not to make it flourish for its own good, but to stop it from moving away from where they want it.

The culture that they so highly value could be considered barbaric or uncivilized in the 'present time' of the setting. They are very tribal, using simple woodwind instruments and drums for ritual dances. They are highly tattooed and practice magic which is 'voodoo' like. Others might call it blood-magic, usually they use the blood of animals caught in a great hunt (one reason they use their magic to preserve the natural world is so there will be sufficient prey for their magic, it works in positive feedback), but if they can't get prey the Elves are prepared to use their own blood to fuel their rituals to keep their homeland from changing.

Does this sound like a good change? Thanks for any feedback!

Yes, this sounds like a good change for a homebrew setting.

There are some issues that may crop up regarding expectations and game mechanics. (I didn't see, but wasn't looking for, a tag IDing the game system, and will assume some version of D&D or similar.)

Are your elves still chaotic and good? It sounds like they are not. There is nothing wrong with that, but it does mean that you may need to slide another playable race into the CG slot to provide the assumed PC options. As written, I would call your elves Lawful evil. Now, that could change based on more expanded write-ups, but the fear of change and sacrifices (even animal) are pretty solid indicators.

Flavor text and fluff will probably need edited for other races and classes to maintain consistency. Orcs could become righteous freedom fighters. Goblins culture might become an exagerated caricature of the elves. Dwarves could see elves as more of an enemy, though one worthy of respect...

The trick I think you were going for, is to make the elves different while making them seem the same. You didn't pull that off, but you may have something better. Take a look at elves from Dark Sun, Dragon Lance, the Forgotten Realms, and Lord of the Rings. You have wildly different options there. Mix and match as needed. Tweak to taste. But always anticipate how the new creations will affect the rest of your world. That's not something many designers do well.

[Arastel]

Yes, this sounds like a good change for a homebrew setting.

There are some issues that may crop up regarding expectations and game mechanics. (I didn't see, but wasn't looking for, a tag IDing the game system, and will assume some version of D&D or similar.)

Are your elves still chaotic and good? It sounds like they are not. There is nothing wrong with that, but it does mean that you may need to slide another playable race into the CG slot to provide the assumed PC options. As written, I would call your elves Lawful evil. Now, that could change based on more expanded write-ups, but the fear of change and sacrifices (even animal) are pretty solid indicators.

Flavor text and fluff will probably need edited for other races and classes to maintain consistency. Orcs could become righteous freedom fighters. Goblins culture might become an exagerated caricature of the elves. Dwarves could see elves as more of an enemy, though one worthy of respect...

The trick I think you were going for, is to make the elves different while making them seem the same. You didn't pull that off, but you may have something better. Take a look at elves from Dark Sun, Dragon Lance, the Forgotten Realms, and Lord of the Rings. You have wildly different options there. Mix and match as needed. Tweak to taste. But always anticipate how the new creations will affect the rest of your world. That's not something many designers do well.

Thank you! The system is 5th edition, but that shouldn't really matter. The setting I'm working on currently is actually only one half of a continent in my larger world, and I'm only planning on having humans, elves, hobgoblin and dragons (with kobold and dragonborn slaves). The humans eradicated all the dwarves from the region a while ago. But within each race there will be at least two distinct groups with different characteristics.

I hadn't thought about regarding the elves as evil though. They definitely seem lawful, but I think they are more neutral because they aren't actively threatening anyone with their practice or even intending other people harm.

I don't think that their use of animal blood is morally much of a problem, mostly because the magic they use it for will result in an increase in the number of prey animals. Also, humans (who are our moral standard here I guess) hunted animals for a long time, but their survival just depended on eating the flesh instead.

I do agree that their willingness to use their own blood if necessary is worrying. But that's how, and you using fearful is probably the right word, fearful they are of change.

The reason that the other races nearby are on friendly terms with the elves is their efforts in helping to fight off some dragons which wanted to rule the entire region. They only joined the humans and hobgoblins after the dragons reduced a large section of their homeland to ash, so the other races know that they are trustworthy.

Thank you for those suggestions, I'm glad they seem different which is more important than keeping them outwardly similar right now. I know the Lord of the Rings thoroughly and that's probably what I consider a standard elf, but haven't looked at Dark sun or Dragonlance.

[FreddyNoNose]

Hello everyone, I'm trying to make Elves in my setting a bit more atypical and would like some help. I haven't posted in the world building forum before so I'm not sure if this is quite the right place.

So from my quick research on the web and amongst my friends I've found that most people have a perception that Elves in fantasy or D&D tend to like nature and value protecting it. My goal is to retain this outer appearance/behaviour (to some extent), but change their reason for doing so. Hopefully my players will then get a surprise when they learn about or investigate the Elves, and this will excite them to go and explore/learn about more things in the setting. Also I'm a bit sick of 'normal' elves.



So my question is: does the following depiction of elves make sense or are there big inconsistencies?

Elves are fundamentally different from humans in that their mindset/value is not on growth or power or control, but instead on peace and continuity of the same things. A long time ago, after a lengthy struggle to suppress hostile creatures which shared their homeland, the elves had a period where their culture flourshed and they mastered their art and music.

But due to time and some outside influence of other races, their environment and arts began to slowly change. This change was not received well by most of the elves, due to their nature of consistency. And so they used their magic to prevent the world they lived in from growing or moving forward, allowing their culture to remain as it was. This is why they use their magic to tend to nature, not to make it flourish for its own good, but to stop it from moving away from where they want it.

The culture that they so highly value could be considered barbaric or uncivilized in the 'present time' of the setting. They are very tribal, using simple woodwind instruments and drums for ritual dances. They are highly tattooed and practice magic which is 'voodoo' like. Others might call it blood-magic, usually they use the blood of animals caught in a great hunt (one reason they use their magic to preserve the natural world is so there will be sufficient prey for their magic, it works in positive feedback), but if they can't get prey the Elves are prepared to use their own blood to fuel their rituals to keep their homeland from changing.

Does this sound like a good change? Thanks for any feedback!

Why do they need to be elves? Can't you make a new group and get rid of elves if you don't like them?

[Knitifine]

I feel like elves have been done in every way, subversive and not.

[Moredhel24]

The idea of elves keeping everything in stasis reminds me heavily of the silvanesti elves from from Dragonlance. Haven't read the books in a while. Book I'm specifically thinking of is Dragons of a Fallen Sun. basically out of xenophobia and all the cataclysms/changes that've happened, they raise a barrier around themselves.

[Arastel]

Why do they need to be elves? Can't you make a new group and get rid of elves if you don't like them?

This is a good point. It's not that I don't like elves, its that I want them to be different from the last elven nation I made. I would much prefer to keep using elves because I have a finite number of races which I have detailed the history/creation of, and so it'll be easier to explain how they diverged from that common root to their current culture. A bit of a comparison is that the human society in this region is based off feudal Japan, compared to the medieval Europe base of the humans in the previous region I was working on.

But maybe I should think about this more seriously than just assuming that they're elves. The cultural changes I'm thinking about are probably more extreme than the changes between human societies of Europe and Japan, so a completely different race would make sense.


The idea of elves keeping everything in stasis reminds me heavily of the silvanesti elves from from Dragonlance. Haven't read the books in a while. Book I'm specifically thinking of is Dragons of a Fallen Sun. basically out of xenophobia and all the cataclysms/changes that've happened, they raise a barrier around themselves.

Yes, reading on the different elves in Dragonlance the Silvanesti seem like the best fit. They don't, however, possess the same intense social hierarchy and in many ways seem more like the wild Kagonesti elves.

[Dromedary]

Are you attempting to make these elves a playable race? Because the idea of playing something with inhuman motivations is actually extremely difficult. Even if you are not planning on making them a playable race, its going to be super hard to justify all of your elf NPCs actions with peace and continuation.

[Arastel]

Are you attempting to make these elves a playable race? Because the idea of playing something with inhuman motivations is actually extremely difficult. Even if you are not planning on making them a playable race, its going to be super hard to justify all of your elf NPCs actions with peace and continuation.

They will be playable of people wish. Yes, it will be difficult to play, and perhaps the player won't get it right but that's okay. I'd prefer my fantastical races to be fundamentally different to humans than just be humans wearing a different skin.

I think that they are highly likely to be peaceful. Conflict tends to mean change, unless it is in self defense, so I thought these elves would be quite likely to try and get along with their neighbours.

[Dromedary]

They will be playable of people wish. Yes, it will be difficult to play, and perhaps the player won't get it right but that's okay. I'd prefer my fantastical races to be fundamentally different to humans than just be humans wearing a different skin.

I think that they are highly likely to be peaceful. Conflict tends to mean change, unless it is in self defense, so I thought these elves would be quite likely to try and get along with their neighbours.

I don't think changing the fundamental nature of humans is necessary when creating a new race. That nature is really just the nature of sentient beings. Designing a race who never act in self interest would be extremely difficult if not impossible. It could be that, while they still act generally the same as humans, they have a heightened sense of the big picture, and therefore peace. Perhaps they are just very stubborn, and change feels like a danger to their homelands and society. Is this what it is? Because I really cannot see playing a character who only acts to maintain peace and prevent change.