Arcane domain cleric help

[deiowf]

Hey everyone first time posting. I have a few questions and need suggestions on how to improve it. First off we are going to have a party of 7, three of us are going to play cleric my brother (death domain) friend (nature domain) and me (arcane domain). We're all going to be triplets and tie our backstory together. We are all going to be variant human and have the sentinel feat so at least 2 of us will get a reaction attack every round.

Starting off with my stats I have, starting level 5th.
18 - Wisdom
17 (18 with variant human) - Strength
15 (16 variant human) con/dex
15 con/dex
14 int
14 cha
Skills- religion, medicine, athletics, perception, arcana
Background - sailor
The DM is letting me drop the extra skill to get a weapon proficiency (long sword) I wanted to do flail for bludgeoning dmg and it's cool as F. But he wants a human to be using a sword for the story so I'm doing that.
Feats - Sentinel and shield master.
Spell cantrips from arcane - green flame blade and true strike for the buffing utility (could use suggestions). I don't think booming blade will be good because the move will never proc with all 3 of us using sentinel. With me using shield master to push every turn to knock them prone so we get advantage on attacks.

I'm thinking about dipping one into fighter for heavy armor and +2 dmg every attack but I reaaly don't want to slow my spell progression down.

Future ASI I'm planning warcaster, resilient or tough 20 Wisdom and Strength.

Basically am I missing anything any areas for improving cantrip suggestions ect.

Our nature cleric is going to stand behind me and the death cleric on the front line keeping bless on us. Me and death will maintain shield of faith while 2 of us being able to use sentinel and me trying to push them prone with my shield. What do you all think? Suggestions for improvement? Thanks all.

[Willie the Duck]

GFB is probably the better cantrip for you. BB works well for a cleric who uses spirit guardians a lot--get up close and personal and attack with it--if they move, they get thundered, if they don't, the guardians damage them.

with a 14+ Dex, heavy armor is not worth the delay. +2 damage (max +4 per round, if you get your reaction attack) likely is not as well. True Strike is rarely worth the casting time--exchange the ability to attack twice in two rounds for the ability to attack once in two rounds with advantage. Yes, there are exceptions (like reactions), but often times it is not worth it.

Overall, it sounds neat. I've never played in a 7-person party. Do you know the rest of the line-up?

[bid]

We are all going to be variant human and have the sentinel feat so at least 2 of us will get a reaction attack every round.
Nope. Sentinel does not work when the target has sentinel.

True strike almost won the contest for worst spell.

[deiowf]

Nope. Sentinel does not work when the target has sentinel.

True strike almost won the contest for worst spell.

Thanks for the suggestion.... not worried about a creature having sentinel especially since there's zero monsters in the monster manual with sentinel feat. How about a suggestion instead of being next to usless?

[ZealousEdge]

Hey everyone first time posting. I have a few questions and need suggestions on how to improve it. First off we are going to have a party of 7, three of us are going to play cleric my brother (death domain) friend (nature domain) and me (arcane domain). We're all going to be triplets and tie our backstory together. We are all going to be variant human and have the sentinel feat so at least 2 of us will get a reaction attack every round.

Starting off with my stats I have, starting level 5th.
18 - Wisdom
17 (18 with variant human) - Strength
15 (16 variant human) con/dex
15 con/dex
14 int
14 cha
Skills- religion, medicine, athletics, perception, arcana
Background - sailor
The DM is letting me drop the extra skill to get a weapon proficiency (long sword) I wanted to do flail for bludgeoning dmg and it's cool as F. But he wants a human to be using a sword for the story so I'm doing that.
Feats - Sentinel and shield master.
Spell cantrips from arcane - green flame blade and true strike for the buffing utility (could use suggestions). I don't think booming blade will be good because the move will never proc with all 3 of us using sentinel. With me using shield master to push every turn to knock them prone so we get advantage on attacks.

I'm thinking about dipping one into fighter for heavy armor and +2 dmg every attack but I reaaly don't want to slow my spell progression down.

Future ASI I'm planning warcaster, resilient or tough 20 Wisdom and Strength.

Basically am I missing anything any areas for improving cantrip suggestions ect.

Our nature cleric is going to stand behind me and the death cleric on the front line keeping bless on us. Me and death will maintain shield of faith while 2 of us being able to use sentinel and me trying to push them prone with my shield. What do you all think? Suggestions for improvement? Thanks all.

The Death Domain Cleric sounds pretty awesome. Maybe you should rethink your build and take pointers from that guy?

[Sir cryosin]

I love the arcane domain played 1 playing right now my second one. Replace blade Ward with any of these prestidigitation, Firbolg, minor illusion, Mage hand, message. For cleric pick sacred flame, light and guidance.

I feel the Sentinel feat is going to be wasted with all three of you having it. So I would drop it for something else.

Also you can muiltilclass into fighter or paladin for heavy armor. You have to start out in those classes to get it. There's a page in the player hand book after the back grounds that tells you what you get when muiltilclass into a class.

[Varlon]

Thanks for the suggestion.... not worried about a creature having sentinel especially since there's zero monsters in the monster manual with sentinel feat. How about a suggestion instead of being next to usless?

"When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn’t have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature."

How will at least 2 of you be getting a reaction attack every round?

[QuintonBeck]

I would suggest Guidance or Sacred Flame in the place of True Strike. As for feats, War Caster is the first one I would go for. Advantage on Concentration checks can be a big deal.

Arcana Domain seems cool and has interested me though I haven't gotten the chance to play one. I believe there's some shenanigans you can pull to become almost solely reliant on Wisdom with Magic Initiate (Druid) and Shillelagh that at Level 8 has you rolling Wisdom to hit and double Wis to damage though given your across the board good stats you probably don't need to SADden your build :smalltongue:

EDIT: You may want to consider dropping Sentinel for Magic Initiate Druid and moving your 18 Strength to Constitution or Dexterity. As someone mentioned, Fighter multiclass doesn't grant heavy armor proficiency so Medium and a decent Dex might serve you better in the long run. With Green Flame Blade, Shillelagh, and maining Wisdom to 20 either before or after War Caster is easier than doing Strength and Wisdom.

[Exaltes]

"When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn’t have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature."

How will at least 2 of you be getting a reaction attack every round?

So if there are 3 of them and they are together within a 5 foot range of each other (or in errata the 5 ft range is ignored) and an enemy attacks a friendly player the other 2 with sentinel would get a reaction to attack.

Depending on how you interpret this in the parenthesis part either the target that is being attacked cannot have sentinel for this to work or it is referring to the target attacking does not have this feat and would make this viable.

Could use some clarification on this if anyone has a set in stone rules on how this functions.

[KnotaGuru]

Bid did offer a suggestion, two in fact, so be nice. You asked if you missed anything and you did.

You can't use the reaction attack from sentinel if the guy next to you that's being attacked also has sentinel. Only one of you should have the feat. You listed some other feats you wanted later on, grab one of those instead.

And true strike takes an action to cast so you don't get the benefit until next round, meaning for your build it's a wasted cantrip.

Dipping fighter for a fighting style isn't worth the loss in spell progression. That extra +2 to damage won't do much for you since you'll only have one attack. That style works for fighters because they get multiple attacks.

[Exaltes]

Bid did offer a suggestion, two in fact, so be nice. You asked if you missed anything and you did.

You can't use the reaction attack from sentinel if the guy next to you that's being attacked also has sentinel. Only one of you should have the feat. You listed some other feats you wanted later on, grab one of those instead.

And true strike takes an action to cast so you don't get the benefit until next round, meaning for your build it's a wasted cantrip.

Dipping fighter for a fighting style isn't worth the loss in spell progression. That extra +2 to damage won't do much for you since you'll only have one attack. That style works for fighters because they get multiple attacks.

"and that target doesn't have sentinel" could be referring to the attacker

edit: it doesn't make sense that you wouldn't be able to use sentinel just because an ally has it, it does make sense that if the enemy has sentinel you would not be able to use this feat against that target who has it.

[JBPuffin]

Bid did offer a suggestion, two in fact, so be nice. You asked if you missed anything and you did.

You can't use the reaction attack from sentinel if the guy next to you that's being attacked also has sentinel. Only one of you should have the feat. You listed some other feats you wanted later on, grab one of those instead.

And true strike takes an action to cast so you don't get the benefit until next round, meaning for your build it's a wasted cantrip.

Dipping fighter for a fighting style isn't worth the loss in spell progression. That extra +2 to damage won't do much for you since you'll only have one attack. That style works for fighters because they get multiple attacks.

You seem to be the one with a tone, not Exaltes...

You can take Sentinel, and have each of you stick to one of your other mates instead. That accomplishes the same idea of multiple people getting OAs, just in a different formation. True strike is sad that it's not something easier to use (an action to cast? ought to allow allies advantage, like pick an ally within range to get the advantage), and one level of fighter is probably not worth it, but two could be. Grab that action surge and have fun (plus, second wind so you don't get killed in the fray).

As for the line, I think it's actually to prevent what you and your friends are trying to do with clusters of OA triggers (and it does explicitly distinguish between "that target" by using "attacking creature" when referring to the person you attack). Flavorwise, it is weird, but it's purely a mechanical thing. A full party with this would trivialize combat pretty easily. I mean, not that a seven-man party won't already...but yeah, split your clerics up and you'll be able to maximize Sentinel coverage.

[Vorpalchicken]

"and that target doesn't have sentinel" could be referring to the attacker

edit: it doesn't make sense that you wouldn't be able to use sentinel just because an ally has it, it does make sense that if the enemy has sentinel you would not be able to use this feat against that target who has it.

It makes perfect sense because without that clause this feat would be abused in exactly the manner you are describing.

[Exaltes]

It makes perfect sense because without that clause this feat would be abused in exactly the manner you are describing.

yeah, I see how it could be abused, but just wish it wasn't so vague. regardless there are tons of other feats if the DM says it's not going to happen

[KnotaGuru]

You seem to be the one with a tone, not Exaltes...

I was referring to this statement from the OP, not Exaltes:


Thanks for the suggestion.... not worried about a creature having sentinel especially since there's zero monsters in the monster manual with sentinel feat. How about a suggestion instead of being next to usless?

In regards to bid's advice:


Nope. Sentinel does not work when the target has sentinel.

True strike almost won the contest for worst spell.

Sentinel is pretty clear. "When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn't have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon weapon attack against the attacking creature"

Target is referring to your teammate. If the target were referring to the attacker it would state "attacker" or "attacking creature."

So yeah, only having one party member have the sentinel feat is all you need.

[JBPuffin]

I was referring to this statement from the OP, not Exaltes, in regards to bid's advice.

I at some point thought Exaltes was the OP, so I was double confused. That quote is a bit snippy.



Sentinel is pretty clear. "When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn't have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon weapon attack against the attacking creature"

Target is referring to your teammate. If the target were referring to the attacker it would state "attacker" or "attacking creature."

So yeah, only having one party member have the sentinel feat is all you need.

I'm gonna keep pushing for this "three sets of Sentinel+other party member" idea. The idea that the trio received similar training as part of their shared upbringing makes a cool mechanical-flavor crossing, and keeping everyone covered (fourth member can pick a cleric to hang around) by Sentinel would be awesome. Original plan won't work, but it's honestly horribly inefficient anyway, so if there's gonna be a Sentinel trio, it ought to be one that loads the party up.

Actually, you can do a phalanx still, with each cleric hanging around a different side of a single party member; mobs that are dumb (in my campaigns, a surprising amount) can get clobbered by two, and anything going after that ally gets at least one. Stick the others in this formation, get a nice 2x3 with an extra either front or back center, and all you have to worry about is AoEs, for which I'd suggest someone grab a Paladin (a pretty reasonable request as all things go).

[djreynolds]

Read the monster manual almost no one resists thunder damage, so IMO booming blade is stronger.

Fire is resisted a lot and may force you to spend an ASI on elemental adept.

But why not have both GFB and BB, and just dump true strike.

I personally would grab war caster only because I'm unsure of the wizard cantrips and going S&B, because they are arcane but they are now cleric spells and focus and all, and advantage on concentration checks is nice, and AoO with BB/GFB is nice

I do like resilient con, these saves do come up a lot and this would also help concentration checks.

Its a toss up between war caster and resilient con. Because of the spell breaker feature, it would suck if you are paralyzed because you failed your con save and can't fix anyone else

So in regards to war caster or resilient con, if you have a paladin in the party... go for war caster. If you are the debuffer of the group... resilient con

As for tough, just cast a healing spell instead, you are a cleric

I like the fighter dip for heavy armor but its a no go because you only get heavy armor at 1st character level. And your dex is +14, so half-plate and shield is AC 19. Breast plate and shield is AC18 and you can stealth. So stick with medium armor and forget fighter

Also, I would stick with strength because you have shield master and I might grab the brawny feat for expertise and a +1 in strength.

[Aaron Underhand]

Hey everyone first time posting. I have a few questions and need suggestions on how to improve it. First off we are going to have a party of 7, three of us are going to play cleric my brother (death domain) friend (nature domain) and me (arcane domain). We're all going to be triplets and tie our backstory together. We are all going to be variant human and have the sentinel feat so at least 2 of us will get a reaction attack every round.

Starting off with my stats I have, starting level 5th.
18 - Wisdom
17 (18 with variant human) - Strength
15 (16 variant human) con/dex
15 con/dex
14 int
14 cha
Skills- religion, medicine, athletics, perception, arcana
Background - sailor
The DM is letting me drop the extra skill to get a weapon proficiency (long sword) I wanted to do flail for bludgeoning dmg and it's cool as F. But he wants a human to be using a sword for the story so I'm doing that.
Feats - Sentinel and shield master.
Spell cantrips from arcane - green flame blade and true strike for the buffing utility (could use suggestions). I don't think booming blade will be good because the move will never proc with all 3 of us using sentinel. With me using shield master to push every turn to knock them prone so we get advantage on attacks.

I'm thinking about dipping one into fighter for heavy armor and +2 dmg every attack but I reaaly don't want to slow my spell progression down.

Future ASI I'm planning warcaster, resilient or tough 20 Wisdom and Strength.

Basically am I missing anything any areas for improving cantrip suggestions ect.

Our nature cleric is going to stand behind me and the death cleric on the front line keeping bless on us. Me and death will maintain shield of faith while 2 of us being able to use sentinel and me trying to push them prone with my shield. What do you all think? Suggestions for improvement? Thanks all.

Lots of good discussion above, just let me add.

If there are fighters/barbarians/paladins or melee rangers or rogues in the party they will likely out damage straight clerics due to the second attack at 5th level. Also they will need their own 'spotlight time. Difficult to discuss this without the other party members being known. However your plan with Sentinel is specifically excluded by the rules. If you want all three of you to have identical training pick something else, or leave that feat to the nature cleric who doesn't get the SCAG cantrips.

Secondly you have awesome stats, so no need to consider things like Mage Initiate (Druid) - your hit probability with longsword is fine.

Thirdly - shield master is better on someone with extra attacks - on a cleric you give up your whole action to do it - there are much better feats for you.

If you want the triplet of clerics to be a meat grinder I would suggest the concentration spells are Bless + 2 spirit guardians - overlapping spirit guardians will rend enemies with your longsword making a minor contribution. Swap round who gives the bless to maximise the number of encounters where the meat grinder operates.

For this I suggest a better (common training) feat selection is Resilient Con plus Warcaster - so you keep concentration and end up with Wis/Str at 18 and Con 16. Dex 15 is fine with Medium armour.

True strike is a trap - take Booming blade and Green Flame blade... or possibly Firebolt for an additional ranged option. These cantrips get to add your casting stat later, so you want two damage dealers - utility from cleric or MI later.

Booming blade is a very powerful option with the opportunity attack from War caster - especially when you get to add your casting stat to it twice - (if they move). Indeed it might be that at 8th you consider the mobile feat - Booming blade then take a pace back - they either advance to hit you (taking damage), or are forced to use a ranged attack - often less powerful.

Of course at 8th level Medium armour master is Dex 16, so +1 Dex skills, imitative and +1 AC, plus ability to stealth in half plate - depending upon the party that may be significant.

edited for typos

[coredump]

Hmmmm....
You could BB, then Shield Master shove them away. Now they can either stand still and do nothing, or move and proc damage

[Corran]

I'm gonna keep pushing for this "three sets of Sentinel+other party member" idea. The idea that the trio received similar training as part of their shared upbringing makes a cool mechanical-flavor crossing
I view this in quite the opposite way. Since multiple sentinel allies underperform when fighting together, it wouldnt make sense, IMO, if all 3 of these characters, who were trained to fight together, have sentinel.

--------------------------------------------------------------
@OP: Here is an alternative, at least for the first few levels.
The one (cleric A) who takes sentinel might want to concentrate on shield of faith, so that having a higher AC might tempt the enemies attack his adjacent non-sentinel allies, and thus allow him to make a reactionary attack with sentinel.
The one (cleric B) fighting adjacent to the sentinel cleric (cleric A), might want to concentrate on spirit guardians. That is for several reasons. First off, the enemies that try to flee the SG area, that are adjacent to the sentinel cleric (cleric A), might be forced to remain in the SG area, if the sentinel cleric (cleric A) hits them with his sentinel reactionary attack. Moreover, the cleric B who will be using spirit guardians, is quite possibly to get targeted a lot by the enemies, so being adjacent to his sentinel ally (cleric A) will allow the sentinel ally to attack more often with his sentinel reactionary attack, or even better, exactly because of his sentinel reactionary attack, the enemies might prefer to target him (cleric A, who is using shield of faith) more often than cleric B (who is using spirit guardians), so that is a good thing, both because cleric B is concentrating on a more important spell (spirit guardians), hence he doesnt want to risk getting hit, and thus risk losing concentration, but also because it is preferable for cleric A to attract more attacks than cleric B, as cleric A is using shield of faith. I would suggest for cleric B (the one using spirit guardians), to take a concentration boosting feat (so either resilient con or warcaster). If that cleric is you (the arcana cleric), I would make that warcaster, and I would take BB as one of the arcane domain cantrips (for good damage OA's against enemies that will try to flee your spirit guardians area, concentration benefits aside).
Cleric C, can sit back and concentrate on bless, as you said, in which case, I dont think sentinel could be very valuable to him.

Edit: Arcana clerics can make good use of the scag cantrips, GFB and BB. These cantrips dont work well with shield master (cause in order to use the bonus action shove from SM, you need to take the attack action, and casting these cantrips, ie BB or GFB, is casting a spell, and not taking the attack action. So be mindfull of that.

[KnotaGuru]

Hmmmm....
You could BB, then Shield Master shove them away. Now they can either stand still and do nothing, or move and proc damage

The bonus action shove from shield master requires you to use the attack action (before or after the shove). Using BB is casting a spell and making an attack as part of casting that spell, but it is not an attack action. Shield master isn't a great feat for clerics or anyone using BB/GFB as their main attack.

[bid]

Thanks for the suggestion.... not worried about a creature having sentinel especially since there's zero monsters in the monster manual with sentinel feat. How about a suggestion instead of being next to usless?
How about getting a clue before you reply?

[8wGremlin]

Arcana Cleric is one of my favourite builds, there was a lot of discussion about it a while ago, and the consensus was that

The two Wizard cantrips to take were

Booming blade as it was seen to be more effective than GFB.
Chill touch, as it has extended range 120' does a fairly decent damage dice and type, as well as having a nice rider effect.

With the stats you have, I wouldn't bother too much with Magic Initiate (Druid) but it is useful.
With either longstrider, goodberries or absorb elements as your spell choices.

Longstrider is a non concentration bonus that you will cast fairly often.
Goodberry is just more healing, useful but not necessary.
Absorb Elements is a reaction, and can save your life if and when you need it, plus it has a nice rider effect.

The two Druid cantrips are Shillelagh, so all attacks key off your Wisdom stat, it's a d8 and counts as a magic attack all from the get go.
The other one I take is Thorn whip, 30' range to pull them back next to you.

Take Warcaster so you can cast spells for OA attack, this will allow you to booming blade them, so if they move they take the damage, or thornwhip them, to pull them back next to you.

This combined with Spirit Guardians makes you a small gravity well, pulling opponents towards you.

It should also be noted that at 8th level you get your Wis mod on all CLERIC cantrips, so this includes Chill touch and Booming blade, so focusing on Wisdom is a good call.

You'll need Dex at around 14 for the +2 ac, use a shield and get a breastplate asap, this will get you to AC18.

Your heals however small can end enemy spells on people, and this has saved our barbarian after they failed their wisdom save, and turned on the party.

Your stats are godly I'd place them like this

Wisdom: 18
Constitution: 17 (18 with variant human)
Dexterity: 15 (16 variant human)

Take: Magic initiate (Druid) at 1st level. Warcaster at 4th, then +2 Wis.
Your Con with the warcaster feat, will allow you to ride most of the concentration checks easily.

above all have fun!

[Chugger]

How about getting a clue before you reply?

Oh man, he's (the other guy - I think OP) is really not getting what we're saying - not getting how the rule works. Instead of being angry explain what this person needs to know. I have never used that feat or seen it used, so I'm not going to try.

[Chugger]

And yeah, I don't think any character with stats like this needs help at all. They can blink at red dragons and slay them. OP the game (for a lot of us, anyway) is actually better when you are forced to work with much lower stats. And as you level you get to increase stats that are too low for you - so you earn what you get. It's a different feeling. Consider it.

(edit, of course I'm being a bit sarcastic here - but meaning it in a friendly and playful way - not in a mean way)

[bid]

Oh man, he's (the other guy - I think OP) is really not getting what we're saying - not getting how the rule works. Instead of being angry explain what this person needs to know. I have never used that feat or seen it used, so I'm not going to try.
If he doesn't understand, it's his job to ask questions on where his understanding is failing. There's a effin difference between "What do you mean, it doesn't work? No creature has sentinel." and "How about a suggestion instead of being next to usless?"

It's ok for newcomers to miss some rules, but it takes a real n00b to outright reject a raised flag.

More questions, fewer assumptions.

[Aaron Underhand]

.....

Your stats are godly I'd place them like this

Wisdom: 18
Constitution: 17 (18 with variant human)
Dexterity: 15 (16 variant human)

Take: Magic initiate (Druid) at 1st level. Warcaster at 4th, then +2 Wis.
Your Con with the warcaster feat, will allow you to ride most of the concentration checks easily.

above all have fun!

I still prefer getting strength 18 and Con 16 - then you don't need to take MI Druid - The combination of Resilient Con at 1st and Warcaster at 4th means your spirit guardians will stay up (especially if you have bless). Also the OP wanted to use longsword for RP reasons. Your damage output becomes very competitive if you have both Spirit Guardians, and Booming Blade running off a str 18. Add in spiritual weapon for extra fun and use for your bonus action. Since both the spirit guardians and the spiritual weapon are magical a non magical sword is hardly a liability.

[coredump]

The bonus action shove from shield master requires you to use the attack action (before or after the shove). Using BB is casting a spell and making an attack as part of casting that spell, but it is not an attack action. Shield master isn't a great feat for clerics or anyone using BB/GFB as their main attack.

Argh!!

Thanks for catching that.

[deiowf]

Thanks for all the suggestions and great discussion! Missed a few things and after reading all the discussion about sentinel unfortunately I have to agree. So only one of us needing sentinel opens the other two up for an extra feat. So warcaster would be the feat I replace sentinel with.

I understand the point being brought up about fire resistant creatures which is what I hate about GFB and that the thunder damage from BB is far less resisted. That still brings up the problem of never getting the rider BB damage because of sentinel being used. Also BB says the target has to willingly move to take the damage from the rider so shield master wouldn't cause the rider to kick in.

As for shield master whoever pointed that out about attack action and casting a spell thanks. Didn't see that or even think about that. I think it's still a good feat for our idea and purpose especially if sentinel has affected the target movement speed of zero they can't stand up from being prone. (Unless I'm missing something here).

Whoever brought up the spirt guardian idea thanks that's an awesome suggestion. Definitely something we'll talk about for a better fighting strategy for us. We're not too worried about Aoe spells from enemies with us having silence dispel magic and a wizard in the group. Btw the rest of the group will be fighter, rogue and wiz (not in any way optimized they want to play weak toons on purpose) and the 7th player is unknown for the class.

@BID instead of saying No doesn't work doing some back hand probing method expecting me to beg you for info from your dbag response. You could have explained why like everyone else has this entire thread they have been useful and thoughtful with there response. Not "NO doesn't work now beg me the D&D God of knowledge for an explanation". Everyone else gave a thoughtful response, suggestion, and reason why it works the way it does.

Edited because I hit submit early by accident.

[Willie the Duck]

@BID instead of saying No doesn't work doing some back hand probing method expecting me to beg you for info from your dbag response. You could have explained why like everyone else has this entire thread they have been useful and thoughtful with there response. Not "NO doesn't work now beg me the D&D God of knowledge for an explanation". Everyone else gave a thoughtful response, suggestion, and reason why it works the way it does.

This is a lovely case of warring "no you're the jerk!"-ism. He took offense at your comment of, "How about a suggestion instead of being next to usless?" and let's be clear--the first person to roll a natural '1' on the saving throw vs. adulthood looks back at you in the mirror every day. Own that act of pointless jerkiness and apologize (or don't, I don't care, but either way it is on you). His response was equally inelegant. You can go back and forth on this, or you can shake hands and move on.

Now the next question I think we all have is why, in a 7-man band, are the 3 cleric brothers acting as the combat crew? What is everyone else playing?

[bid]

@BID instead of saying No doesn't work doing some back hand probing method expecting me to beg you for info from your dbag response.
Willie did well enough. I won't add to it.

[Exaltes]

Willie did well enough. I won't add to it.

Willie did but bid did not

[deiowf]

Willie did well enough. I won't add to it.

I'll be the bigger man instead of quoting someone still trying to be a dbag. Thanks for your useless response multiple times... *handshake* we cool now?

[KnotaGuru]

Warcaster would be an excellent feat for the 3 cleric brothers to take as their "background" feat instead of sentinel. It fits thematically too, the brothers attended a combat clergy school learning to blend the art of martial fighting with divine powers.

And while shield master mechanically isn't the best choice for your other feat, if you like it for thematic reasons go for it. The other clerics could choose from sentinel or PAM to round out their combat training.

You're right about the difficulty of having your BB target move willingly to trigger the bonus damage. For this reason, I think GFB is superior. Plus, with 7 players, your party will quickly overwhelm 1 or 2 BBEG so your DM will need to throw a lot of enemies at you. This should pay to the advantage of GFB's bonus effect. Use sacred flame against fire resistant/immune enemies. For the other bonus cantrip from arcane domain, I like a ranged attack roll cantrip, like chill touch, giving you a reliable 120' attack that also adds your WIS mod.

Speaking of wisdom, have it maxed by level 8 since you'll get to add your WIS mod to all your cleric cantrip damage spells then. Sacred flame, GFB, & chill touch will get a nice boost then.

[djreynolds]

Spirit guardians and booming blade combo well.

You need to be 5th level cleric with war caster and have booming blade

Move into melee, and cast spirit guardians. Then the opponent moves away and you connect with booming blade with your reaction AoO, unless they disengage which is where sentinel is nice to have

Now they have a choice, stay and fight you and continue to take radiant damage from spirit guardians or disengage and take damage from booming blade.

It is a nice combo you can pull off pretty regularly.

But you will lose your ability to cast other concentration spells like bless or shield of faith or protection from evil, which your melee buddies might want if they are using GWM for a good portion of their damage out put or that archer using SS

Also, as a cleric or wizard, since I have wisdom save proficiency I will often cast and concentrate on protection from evil on fighters, rogues, and barbarians in melee since they are very vulnerable to charm and fear.

Also remember much of my advice comes from standard array builds, you have rolled awesome stats so you can go ahead and do as you please.

Shield master is actually quite good for your build. If you have spirit guardians activated and move in to shield bash most of your enemies will have to waste half of their movement to stand. And since your spirit guardian range in 15ft, most enemy (30ft movement) who stand up usually will only have 15ft left over to move and are still stuck in the radiant damage zone.

So for your build shield master works, but with most clerics with a 15/14/13/12/10/8 build shield master or sentinel are often a luxury pick as you try to max out wisdom and perhaps grab more needed ASI/feats.

Good luck to you, and I would love to see your build as it progresses.

[KnotaGuru]

Spirit guardians and booming blade combo well.

You need to be 5th level cleric with war caster and have booming blade

Move into melee, and cast spirit guardians. Then the opponent moves away and you connect with booming blade with your reaction AoO, unless they disengage which is where sentinel is nice to have

Now they have a choice, stay and fight you and continue to take radiant damage from spirit guardians or disengage and take damage from booming blade.

It is a nice combo you can pull off pretty regularly.

But you will lose your ability to cast other concentration spells like bless or shield of faith or protection from evil, which your melee buddies might want if they are using GWM for a good portion of their damage out put or that archer using SS

Also, as a cleric or wizard, since I have wisdom save proficiency I will often cast and concentrate on protection from evil on fighters, rogues, and barbarians in melee since they are very vulnerable to charm and fear.

Also remember much of my advice comes from standard array builds, you have rolled awesome stats so you can go ahead and do as you please.

Shield master is actually quite good for your build. If you have spirit guardians activated and move in to shield bash most of your enemies will have to waste half of their movement to stand. And since your spirit guardian range in 15ft, most enemy (30ft movement) who stand up usually will only have 15ft left over to move and are still stuck in the radiant damage zone.

So for your build shield master works, but with most clerics with a 15/14/13/12/10/8 build shield master or sentinel are often a luxury pick as you try to max out wisdom and perhaps grab more needed ASI/feats.

Good luck to you, and I would love to see your build as it progresses.

This is solid advice. I didn't think of the synergy between spirit guardians, shield master, and BB with warcaster feat. I'd like to see this in action.

[ZealousEdge]

[QUOTE=deiowf;22345977]Hey everyone first time posting. I have a few questions and need suggestions on how to improve it. First off we are going to have a party of 7, three of us are going to play cleric my brother (death domain) friend (nature domain) and me (arcane domain). We're all going to be triplets and tie our backstory together. We are all going to be variant human and have the sentinel feat so at least 2 of us will get a reaction attack every round.

Hey everyone,

I am the said Cleric in the Death Domain in this upcoming game. I'm looking for any suggestions as well to see how well we will work synergistically. Here is my build:
Str 17
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 15
Cha 13
These stats reflect the bonus for variant human. I added +1 to Str and +1 to Wis. We are starting out at 5th level so I picked 1st level fighter and 4 levels in cleric. I picked the duel wielder fighting style along with the feats duel wielder and sentinel. Update: Our DM said we can all 3 benefit from sentinel! Our DM also allowed me to trade the skill proficiency in human for one cantrip that my brother taught me. I chose flame blade obviously.. This will give me two attacks each turn, damage from flame blade, and divine strike at 8th. Thoughts?

[djreynolds]

[QUOTE=deiowf;22345977]Hey everyone first time posting. I have a few questions and need suggestions on how to improve it. First off we are going to have a party of 7, three of us are going to play cleric my brother (death domain) friend (nature domain) and me (arcane domain). We're all going to be triplets and tie our backstory together. We are all going to be variant human and have the sentinel feat so at least 2 of us will get a reaction attack every round.

Hey everyone,

I am the said Cleric in the Death Domain in this upcoming game. I'm looking for any suggestions as well to see how well we will work synergistically. Here is my build:
Str 17
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 15
Cha 13
These stats reflect the bonus for variant human. I added +1 to Str and +1 to Wis. We are starting out at 5th level so I picked 1st level fighter and 4 levels in cleric. I picked the duel wielder fighting style along with the feats duel wielder and sentinel. Update: Our DM said we can all 3 benefit from sentinel! Our DM also allowed me to trade the skill proficiency in human for one cantrip that my brother taught me. I chose flame blade obviously.. This will give me two attacks each turn, damage from flame blade, and divine strike at 8th. Thoughts?

If you use GFB, green flame blade you are using the spell action though the spell uses a melee attack. So you only get one attack that round no bonus action other than perhaps to move say your spiritual weapon or cast healing word then.

If you use the attack action, and are dual wielding than you get 2 attacks, main attack and bonus attack

So if you are going to be using GFB a lot, IMO, dual wield is expensive. What I might do, is since your charisma is a 13, I might be inclined to grab a level of warlock for hex and concentrate on that for an extra 1d6 necrotic damage added to your 2 attacks. Obviously if your opponent you will lose your BA having to place hex on a new opponent.

Also paladin has divine favor, and for a 2 level dip into paladin you can also smite.

In fact to better take advantage of TWF and dual wielder style.... 6 levels of paladin for the extra attack at 5th is nice, aura of protection is good.

[ZealousEdge]

[QUOTE=djreynolds;22348839][QUOTE=ZealousEdge;22348830]

If you use GFB, green flame blade you are using the spell action though the spell uses a melee attack. So you only get one attack that round no bonus action other than perhaps to move say your spiritual weapon or cast healing word then.

If you use the attack action, and are dual wielding than you get 2 attacks, main attack and bonus attack

Our DM is going to let me use a bonus attack along with the GFB attack. GFB and BB are unique in allowing an attack to complete the casting. This will not be an issue in this build. Thanks for your suggestions!

[djreynolds]

Our DM is going to let me use a bonus attack along with the GFB attack. GFB and BB are unique in allowing an attack to complete the casting. This will not be an issue in this build. Thanks for your suggestions!

Well that changes things a bit, so then you are good.

Good luck storming the castle

[Willie the Duck]

Hi, ZE, welcome!
Some of our advice is going to be a little off, since it seems that, between your stat generation method and DM leeway, you are playing in a pretty high-powered game. Normally, I would say that a sentinel build should go with two-handed weapons, since you only get one reaction-attack regardless. However, with stats like these and twf-gfb, the extra damage will probably be dwarfed.

I'd round off the odd Wis and Str at 9th level (assuming that would be Ftr1Clr8). After that, it depends on whether you want to be a better spellcaster or combat monster. Both clerics and two-weapon fighters struggle to stay on top of the combat game as level goes up (and your fighter friend hits level 11 and starts doing 3x GWM-boosted smackdowns), so you will have to be creative if you want to continue in the same role.

All of this is highly dependent upon the rest of the party. Do you know what the non-3 cleric brothers are playing?

[bid]

Willie did but bid did not
Nice sockpuppet.

[ZealousEdge]

Hi, ZE, welcome!
Some of our advice is going to be a little off, since it seems that, between your stat generation method and DM leeway, you are playing in a pretty high-powered game. Normally, I would say that a sentinel build should go with two-handed weapons, since you only get one reaction-attack regardless. However, with stats like these and twf-gfb, the extra damage will probably be dwarfed.

I'd round off the odd Wis and Str at 9th level (assuming that would be Ftr1Clr8). After that, it depends on whether you want to be a better spellcaster or combat monster. Both clerics and two-weapon fighters struggle to stay on top of the combat game as level goes up (and your fighter friend hits level 11 and starts doing 3x GWM-boosted smackdowns), so you will have to be creative if you want to continue in the same role.

All of this is highly dependent upon the rest of the party. Do you know what the non-3 cleric brothers are playing?

Thanks for the advice! The other 3 party members (we are down to 6 total now) will be diviner wizard, thief rogue, and champion fighter.

[Willie the Duck]

Okay. So if the thief is played more like a skulker/skill-monkey and the diviner, as the only arcane spellcaster, is rather dedicated to problem-solving, I can see why you're gearing up for the clerics to be a big part of the combat mission. Especially if the DM is going to be throwing 150% sized encounters at you due to 6 PCs. Are you going to do adventure paths, homebrew, sandbox, or any other specific type of campaign?

[ZorroGames]

Nice sockpuppet.

Did I wander on To TMP?

To quote Aragorn in the movie, "That was not polite."

Neither was it necessary or helpful.

I am the grumpy old man. Get your own schtick.

[Kobard]

Any arcana cleric who does not take the Ritual Caster (Wizard) feat is squandering huge potential.

[Citan]

Hey everyone first time posting. I have a few questions and need suggestions on how to improve it. First off we are going to have a party of 7, three of us are going to play cleric my brother (death domain) friend (nature domain) and me (arcane domain). We're all going to be triplets and tie our backstory together. We are all going to be variant human and have the sentinel feat so at least 2 of us will get a reaction attack every round.

Starting off with my stats I have, starting level 5th.
18 - Wisdom
17 (18 with variant human) - Strength
15 (16 variant human) con/dex
15 con/dex
14 int
14 cha
Skills- religion, medicine, athletics, perception, arcana
Background - sailor
The DM is letting me drop the extra skill to get a weapon proficiency (long sword) I wanted to do flail for bludgeoning dmg and it's cool as F. But he wants a human to be using a sword for the story so I'm doing that.
Feats - Sentinel and shield master.
Spell cantrips from arcane - green flame blade and true strike for the buffing utility (could use suggestions). I don't think booming blade will be good because the move will never proc with all 3 of us using sentinel. With me using shield master to push every turn to knock them prone so we get advantage on attacks.

I'm thinking about dipping one into fighter for heavy armor and +2 dmg every attack but I reaaly don't want to slow my spell progression down.

Future ASI I'm planning warcaster, resilient or tough 20 Wisdom and Strength.

Basically am I missing anything any areas for improving cantrip suggestions ect.

Our nature cleric is going to stand behind me and the death cleric on the front line keeping bless on us. Me and death will maintain shield of faith while 2 of us being able to use sentinel and me trying to push them prone with my shield. What do you all think? Suggestions for improvement? Thanks all.
Hi!
Well, if you don't want to delay progression, instead of taking a starting dip into Fighter, you could grab as a starting feat (instead of one of Sentinel or Shield Master) Medium Armor Master with a starting 16 in DEX so you can reach 18 AC without Stealth penalty.
Or Heavily Armored with a starting 17 (put the +1 from Variant Human elsewhere) so you start with heavy armor and still 18 STR.

Like...
Starting array 1
17 (+1 Vhuman) STR / 15 (+1 VHuman) DEX / 15 CON / 14 INT / 18 WIS / 14 CHA.
Feats to grab (in addition to the ones you want): Medium Armor Master, Resilient: Constitution (so 16 CON).
>>> Start with directly 20 AC (medium armot + shield).

Starting array 2
17 STR (+1 Heavily Armored) / 15 DEX (+1 Vhuman) / 15 CON (+1 Vhuman) / 14 INT / 18 WIS / 14 CHA.
Here too you start at 20 AC (heavy rmor + shield) but you also start with 16 in DEX and CON altogether.
Feats to grab: Heavily Armored, Warcaster



(You cannot know how hard I'm restricting myself not to suggest dips in about every class available to make an insanely powerful gish, even more if you had the permission to change the scores attributions... Your stats are just soooo good. XD)

[Willie the Duck]

Did I wander on To TMP?

To quote Aragorn in the movie, "That was not polite."

Neither was it necessary or helpful.

I am the grumpy old man. Get your own schtick.

Speaking of not necessary or helpful, I think we've already dealt with this. I think there's plenty of sheepish head hanging going on that people are simply not saying out loud (hopefully). How about we move on and let bid and the OP decide whether they want to make different choices in the future regarding leaping to hostility?


(You cannot know how hard I'm restricting myself not to suggest dips in about every class available to make an insanely powerful gish, even more if you had the permission to change the scores attributions... Your stats are just soooo good. XD)

I know, right? There has been such a focus as of late on point-buy, RAW (or AL) builds, the idea of building for the campaigns where the gloves are off (especially with someone else's DM) is almost too good to pass up.

[bid]

Neither was it necessary or helpful.
Oh irony.

Why don't you tell that to double-D or his sick puppy?
I backed down, they kept on piling.

[KnotaGuru]

...How about a suggestion instead of being next to usless?


How about getting a clue before you reply?


If he doesn't understand, it's his job to ask questions on where his understanding is failing. There's a effin difference between "What do you mean, it doesn't work? No creature has sentinel." and "How about a suggestion instead of being next to usless?"

It's ok for newcomers to miss some rules, but it takes a real n00b to outright reject a raised flag.

More questions, fewer assumptions.


@BID instead of saying No doesn't work doing some back hand probing method expecting me to beg you for info from your dbag response. You could have explained why like everyone else has this entire thread they have been useful and thoughtful with there response. Not "NO doesn't work now beg me the D&D God of knowledge for an explanation". Everyone else gave a thoughtful response, suggestion, and reason why it works the way it does.


I'll be the bigger man instead of quoting someone still trying to be a dbag. Thanks for your useless response multiple times... *handshake* we cool now?


Nice sockpuppet.


Why don't you tell that to double-D or his sick puppy?
I backed down, they kept on piling.

This is embarrassing. You both say you're done but then have to get the last jab in. Grow up.