The Depressed Paladin Build

[GuestEleven]

Hello, I am building a character for future use and I'm seeking the advice of people more experienced with Paladins than I am. My group most typically uses 3.5 and Pathfinder together.

Here is what I have decided for the character so far:

Race: Aasimar

Class: Paladin with the Tortured Crusader and Warrior of Holy Light archetypes (We allow two archetypes if they don't interfere with one another, for instance if an archetype has an ability that replaces the Rage class feature and another alters the Rage class feature you cannot have both unless it can possibly be altered to work and make sense. Also it could be made to work with the surrendering of a feat.)

Racial Variant: Angel-Blooded from the Blood of Angels Pathfinder Companion and +2 str, this will give me +4 str and a couple of other neat tricks

Possible feats: I haven't hammered out a lot of my feat choices yet, but I certainly have my eyes set upon Greater Mercy and Ultimate Mercy, sacrificing 10 uses of LoH to Raise Dead seems quite nice in my eyes but I could just be fooling myself. I am also considering any and all smite feats to make the character a great destroyer of evil. Let's work under the assumption that I will only have nine feats to spend in the event that I do need to sacrifice one for both archetypes.

Character story: This is where I would really like some ideas and input. The Tortured Crusader archetypes with entries such as "Everything around a tortured crusader is so bleak that detecting evil only reminds her that the odds are always against her." and "Though tortured crusaders may be beaten and battered, body, mind, and soul, they still somehow continue through torment and hardship. Despite setbacks and impossible odds, they shine like candles even in the darkest times. Somewhere in their minds, they realize that they can’t win in the end, but this only strengthens their resolve to fight for what is right, rather than giving in to hopelessness." leads me to believe that this character would only be suitable for an extreme horror setting and that he would have an extremely tragic back story(Leave it to me to make an edgy paladin). Also I don't know much in the way of Pathfinder gods, but as far a 3.5 goes I will always love the Silver Flame from the Eberron setting. It is by far my favorite religion for holy men.

I am quite interested in this concept I have schemed up and hope I have a chance to play him one day, the real hang-up I am seeing is that for the Ultimate Mercy feat the prereq is 19 cha but with Tortured Crusader cha stops being an important stat and wis takes its place for the purposes of smiting, LoH, etc. Do you guys think a lenient DM would alter the feat's prereqs to suit the new relevant stat for the ability that the feat applies to?

Thanks in advance for all advice.

[Florian]

I´m not so much a fan of WoHL as you drop spellcasting, meaning also no Oath of Vengeance.
I based my Tortured Crusader on a Changeling, as knowledge about what that means and what she´ll eventually become makes for a very easy backstory for this archetype.

Feats are pretty basic and unspectacular. Power Attack, Critical Focus, Extra LoH, Step Up > Step Up And Strike, Strike Back, Unsanctioned Knowledge, Greater Mercy, Ultimate Mercy.

[Stormstrider]

Hello, I am building a character for future use and I'm seeking the advice of people more experienced with Paladins than I am. My group most typically uses 3.5 and Pathfinder together.

Here is what I have decided for the character so far:

Race: Aasimar

Class: Paladin with the Tortured Crusader and Warrior of Holy Light archetypes (We allow two archetypes if they don't interfere with one another, for instance if an archetype has an ability that replaces the Rage class feature and another alters the Rage class feature you cannot have both unless it can possibly be altered to work and make sense. Also it could be made to work with the surrendering of a feat.)

Racial Variant: Angel-Blooded from the Blood of Angels Pathfinder Companion and +2 str, this will give me +4 str and a couple of other neat tricks

Possible feats: I haven't hammered out a lot of my feat choices yet, but I certainly have my eyes set upon Greater Mercy and Ultimate Mercy, sacrificing 10 uses of LoH to Raise Dead seems quite nice in my eyes but I could just be fooling myself. I am also considering any and all smite feats to make the character a great destroyer of evil. Let's work under the assumption that I will only have nine feats to spend in the event that I do need to sacrifice one for both archetypes.

Character story: This is where I would really like some ideas and input. The Tortured Crusader archetypes with entries such as "Everything around a tortured crusader is so bleak that detecting evil only reminds her that the odds are always against her." and "Though tortured crusaders may be beaten and battered, body, mind, and soul, they still somehow continue through torment and hardship. Despite setbacks and impossible odds, they shine like candles even in the darkest times. Somewhere in their minds, they realize that they can’t win in the end, but this only strengthens their resolve to fight for what is right, rather than giving in to hopelessness." leads me to believe that this character would only be suitable for an extreme horror setting and that he would have an extremely tragic back story(Leave it to me to make an edgy paladin). Also I don't know much in the way of Pathfinder gods, but as far a 3.5 goes I will always love the Silver Flame from the Eberron setting. It is by far my favorite religion for holy men.

I am quite interested in this concept I have schemed up and hope I have a chance to play him one day, the real hang-up I am seeing is that for the Ultimate Mercy feat the prereq is 19 cha but with Tortured Crusader cha stops being an important stat and wis takes its place for the purposes of smiting, LoH, etc. Do you guys think a lenient DM would alter the feat's prereqs to suit the new relevant stat for the ability that the feat applies to?

Thanks in advance for all advice.

TBH it really depends on the DM and the game's focus.

[JBPuffin]

Lenient DMs could very well help you out on the Wis > Cha front one way or another. Can't help much with mechanics, but the flavor...

For a paladin to have actually gone through enough to be considered "tortured" implies some kind of imprisonment - PTSD as a veteran of a religious war and POW of a god/dess of pain or torture's church? Maybe some cultists got ahold of them and just started wreaking havoc with his mind and body, until by the end you have a man with nothing left but his faith. Family probably died in the aftermath of the war, along with any friends or other major attachments, leaving them free for an adventuring party to pick up. He's still fighting the good fight, but because it's the only skill he has, the only life he knows. He couldn't stop if he wanted to; if he did, his hands would impale him on his own sword within moments of resigning from his duties. The party found him lying along a road, or alone at a bar, or somewhere else he'd gone to take a moment's respite from the weight on his shoulders, and (perhaps with some cajoling) they enlisted his aid. So, he'll follow them to hell and back, as he's done for countless others...or, at least, the first half...

[Florian]

For a paladin to have actually gone through enough to be considered "tortured" implies some kind of imprisonment

There´s more approaches than that. Let´s talk about one of the oddities of the Golarion Multiverse: You kill the evil overlord now, chances are good you´ve helped "birthing" a new Pit Fiend. At the same time, a crusader against evil might die and ascent to angel-hood, but who continues his work?
Understanding this makes the whole struggle seem all the more futile.

[GuestEleven]

I´m not so much a fan of WoHL as you drop spellcasting, meaning also no Oath of Vengeance.
I based my Tortured Crusader on a Changeling, as knowledge about what that means and what she´ll eventually become makes for a very easy backstory for this archetype.

Feats are pretty basic and unspectacular. Power Attack, Critical Focus, Extra LoH, Step Up > Step Up And Strike, Strike Back, Unsanctioned Knowledge, Greater Mercy, Ultimate Mercy.

Personally I think Paladin spell casting is so underwhelming and partially useless 9/10 circumstances. If you want good Ranger spells play a Druid, if you want good Paladin spells play a Cleric. Taking WoHL doesn't so much negate the possibility of getting Oath of Vengeance as much as not taking Oathbound Paladin negates the ability to get it, though it is something I have yet to run into and I thank you for turning my eyes toward it, I may be able to work out a way to get it another way. I like your Changeling idea, but it doesn't have the flavor of the character I am seeking to make. I adore making broken/evil Aasimar as well as truly good Tieflings, I find the irony to be sweet. Step Up and Strike might work fantastically with Reflexive Smite, Unsanctioned Knowledge is interesting if I do ultimately decide to steer toward casting instead of dropping it. I can't help but to be skeptical about Strike Back, is it really useful enough to warrant a feat?


For a paladin to have actually gone through enough to be considered "tortured" implies some kind of imprisonment - PTSD as a veteran of a religious war and POW of a god/dess of pain or torture's church? Maybe some cultists got ahold of them and just started wreaking havoc with his mind and body, until by the end you have a man with nothing left but his faith. Family probably died in the aftermath of the war, along with any friends or other major attachments, leaving them free for an adventuring party to pick up. He's still fighting the good fight, but because it's the only skill he has, the only life he knows. He couldn't stop if he wanted to; if he did, his hands would impale him on his own sword within moments of resigning from his duties. The party found him lying along a road, or alone at a bar, or somewhere else he'd gone to take a moment's respite from the weight on his shoulders, and (perhaps with some cajoling) they enlisted his aid. So, he'll follow them to hell and back, as he's done for countless others...or, at least, the first half...

A lot of this is definitely usable but I think we're lingering too hard on one application of the term "tortured". Though yes I'm certain a long period of torture in the character's past is warranted and will likely add to the character, I lean a lot more toward the character having a tortured existence. Perhaps he has been on many missions or quests that lead to him losing many friends/family, and has walked away from so many punishing/terrifying situations he should not have made it out from. Also what about the prospect of a divine level curse to live out a tortured existence, he is doomed to bring the end of all that he loves and cherishes. What do you think?

[daryen]

I based my Tortured Crusader on a Changeling, as knowledge about what that means and what she´ll eventually become makes for a very easy backstory for this archetype.

Assuming a Changeling ignores/overcomes her calling, she's basically free. A Changeling most definitely does not have to become a hag. Really, considering that her calling happens around puberty, I would assume a PC Changling has already successfully resisted her calling.

[GuestEleven]

Assuming a Changeling ignores/overcomes her calling, she's basically free. A Changeling most definitely does not have to become a hag. Really, considering that her calling happens around puberty, I would assume a PC Changling has already successfully resisted her calling.

Good catch.