Master of masks level 3 + Brass mane soulmeld

[daremetoidareyo]

Couple questions about the interplay of the master of masks class and the totemist.

Does the level 3 ability that increases skill bonuses from a mask stack with each point of essencia? Here is the text of the ability


Mask Specialist (Su): Starting at 3rd level, you innately enhance the abilities of any magic mask you wear (such as the mask of the skull, DMG 262). If the mask creates an effect that requires a saving throw, the save DC increases by 2. If the mask grants a bonus on skill checks, that bonus is increased by 2. Otherwise, the mask's caster level is treated as two higher.

Exact wording of brass mane:

This feral mask has leonine qualities, including a coarse mane of thick, brass-colored hair. Onlookers familiar with the mighty dragonnes recognize the similarities between those fearsome desert predators and the features of the mask.
Dragonnes are vicious and deadly hunters. Because of their terrible roar, totemists associate them with fear and don brass manes to strike terror into enemy hearts. While you wear your brass mane, you gain a +4 competence bonus on Intimidate checks.
Essentia: Every point of essentia invested in this soulmeld increases the competence bonus it grants on Intimidate checks by 2.

Another question
What happens when I combine the hidden mask ability with the basilisk mask soulmeld during non combat situations? Can I petrify people before combat even starts? They can see me, apparently maskless, and then they turn to stone?


Hidden Mask (Su): Beginning at 6th level, you can make any mask you wear become invisible (or return an invisible mask to visibility). Activating or deactivating this ability requires a swift action. The mask's benefit applies regardless of whether it is visible.

[JNAProductions]

I think it's referring specifically to mask-based magic items. Now, ask your DM-but I personally would not allow it, unless the rest of the table is pretty cheesy too.

That being said, neat find!

[ExLibrisMortis]

I think the soulmeld is not so much a mask you wear as it is a soumeld you have shaped (that happens to manifest itself by being visible around your face, as a mask would). I wouldn't let any effect that targets types of items (be it masks, cloaks, gloves, ...) affect soulmelds that are named after/shaped like those items.

That said, balance-wise, there is no objection to stacking the two, and it is, in fact, a cool bit of interaction.

[daremetoidareyo]

Here's the relevant text that leads me to believe that you can ask your DM with reasonable assurance:

A soulmeld is a semipermanent magical effect :smallsmile:crafted from raw incarnum. Soulmelds are “worn” much like magic items. :smallsmile:

Once shaped (a daily process much like prepping spells), a soulmeld lasts as long as its creator wants it to. The characters who make use of the options in this book— new classes, prestige classes, feats, and other options—gain the ability to shape incarnum into magical objects called soulmelds.... A soulmeld somewhat resembles a magic item or a spell effect in physical form. :smallsmile:

It is the physical embodiment of incarnum, linked to the meldshaper’s body and worn almost like a physical item. :smallannoyed: Shaping incarnum into soulmelds requires time and effort, much like a wizard preparing spells. Unlike spells, though, soulmelds generally last until the meldshaper decides to unshape them, withdrawing the incarnum for future use.


Similar to and closely linked with ten of the magic item spaces on the body described in the Dungeon Master’s Guide, the ten chakras represent locations on the body where a meldshaper can place a soulmeld.

A soulmeld can be bound to a chakra in order to gain a secondary (and often more potent) effect from it. Doing so cuts off the corresponding body slot from magic item use—binding a soulmeld to your feet chakra means you can’t wear magic boots, for example.

...
In general, binding a soulmeld to a chakra produces an effect similar to that granted by a magic item worn on the corresponding body slot. :smallsmile: For example, binding a soulmeld to the throat chakra often grants the meldshaper abilities related to protection or discernment, just as a magic amulet or scarab usually does. Other thematic ties link the powers of soulmelds to their chakra binds. A soulmeld bound to the throat chakra might also grant the meldshaper a breath weapon or some ability related to speech, since these abilities are symbolically connected to the throat. See the Behind the Curtain sidebar entitled Body Slot Affinities on page 288 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide for more about the abilities granted by magic items that occupy different body slots. :smallsmile:


Similarly, your soulmelds always radiate good, evil, law, or chaos (according to your alignment) as though they were aligned magic items with a caster level equal to your class level.


Mask Specialist (Su): Starting at 3rd level, you innately enhance the abilities of any magic mask you wear (such as the mask of the skull, DMG 262). If the mask creates an effect that requires a saving throw, the save DC increases by 2. If the mask grants a bonus on skill checks, that bonus is increased by 2. Otherwise, the mask's caster level is treated as two higher. This ability has no effect on the persona masks you create and use.

Counter argument


Soulmelds are persistent magical constructions :smallsmile: shaped from pure incarnum—the power of souls living, dead, and yet unborn—fused with the meldshaper’s own essence. They resemble both long-lasting spells and magic items in many ways, but truly are neither. :smallannoyed:

counter counter argument


Soulmeld–Magic Transparency: Spells, spell-like abilities,
and magic items that could potentially affect soulmelds do affect soulmelds. When the rule about soulmeld–magic transparency is in effect, it has the following ramifications.


List of other "masks" for future self reference
A&EG: mask of lies, mask of feather queen p.134, johydee's mask p.151
Lords of Darkness: Darkmask's Dark Embrace (Su): A darkmask of 3rd level or higher has the ability to invoke dark embrace once per day, which manifests as a mask of shadow that girds the darkmask's face. The darkmask then casts a divine spell, which is absorbed by the mask of shadow; the spell must be a touch spell or a target spell. As a free action, the darkmask may command the mask to fly at a single creature within 100 feet, at which point that creature is affected by the absorbed spell. (saving throws and spell resistance apply normally to the spell) and the dark embrace ends. The dark embrace can remain for 10 minutes. If it vanishes before its stored spell is unleashed, the spell is lost.
Legend of the silver Skeleton: Clockwork Mask of the Mind Flayer p.21
MoI: Silvertongue mask, fearsome mask, 3fold mask of chimera, basilisk mask, disenchanter mask, great raptor mask, krenshar mask, yrthak mask, gorgon mask, winter mask, brass mane, psionkiller mask
Underdark: spidermask p.75
defenders of faith: mask of the dead p.75

[ExLibrisMortis]

All the fluff on soulmelds points out how similar they really are to magic items (crunch and fluff), but always with the caveat that they are not quite the same. I don't disagree that there are a lot of nudge nudge-wink wink hints at MoM/brass mane interaction, but I still say that's all they are--hints.

Master of Masks is pretty darn cool, I still want to use it every time I see it, but it's just not quite there power-wise. It doesn't feel like each mask is enough of a complete character. Quick buffs:
Increase skill points from 4 to 6, add a bunch of class skills (Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Hide, Intimidate, Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Spellcraft, Spot)
Increase base attack to 3/4
Increase casting to 5/10 (all even levels)
Enhanced Masks
Angel: permanent 30' + 5'/level (good) flight and scaling angel abilities (resistances, immunities, Protective Aura, tongues).
Archmage: bonus CL equal to 1/2 class level (round up), with SLAs that are at least on-level (not a CL 4 scorching ray at ECL 4).
Assassin: 1d6 SA/2 levels (round up), bonus on Hide/Move Silently equal to class level, and one rogue special ability at level 4 and 8.
Demon: summon monster as-is, but at +5 CL, since the duration is too short. Plus tanar'ri traits (resistances, immunities, telepathy)
Dragon: over time, Frightful Presence, blindsight, superior low-light vision, and maybe some skill bonuses to Intimidate, Spot, and Listen. Oh, and the breath weapon shouldn't be 3/day.
Faceless: over time, upgrade to mind blank, maybe some other magical defenses as well, like SR/spell turning, or the ability to read minds & make people forget about it (psionics are good here).
Gladiator: over time, grant a bunch of weapon feats, like Improved [maneuver] and Spring Attack (gladiators are about spectacle, not pure damage), and bonuses on opposed maneuver rolls.
High priest: as Archmage.
Jester: eh, add some bardic music abilities, or bard SLAs?
Lich: as demon and angel, add more undead traits, including DR/bludgeoning, immunities, paralysis. And better SLAs.
Lord: better SLAs, and maybe an aura of courage or marshal/dragon shaman aura.
Savage: add Climb, Handle Animal, Survival, and Swim skill bonuses. Maybe Rage, too?

[XionUnborn01]

----They resemble both long-lasting spells and magic items in many ways, but truly are neither.---

I think that's the most definitive answer. They're not magic items no matter similar they are.

I agree that it would be a cool interaction but it doesn't officially work. Ask your DM though, I'm sure plenty would allow it.

[Nifft]

"Mask" is not a body-slot, nor a mechanical term.

Thus, an item or effect being a "mask" is almost entirely a matter of finding the word "mask" in an item or effect's name or flavor text.

I'd have no problem applying the bonus from Master of Masks to that Soulmeld.

[daremetoidareyo]

More masks as reference point

complete psi: Crystal mask of terror, Crystal mask of visual insight, Crystal mask of otherworldly gaze, Crystal mask of psychometry p.109
Complete war: tatooed monk white mask
DMG: mask of the skull p.262
dragon comp: mast of the reaper p.138, spider masks, p.141, thespian's mask p.142
dragon magic: dragonfire mask soulmeld p.84, ebon mask p.100
DotU: Gloom mask p.100, mask of the matriarch p.100
DMG2: ritual of theft, travel, purity, ritual of honor (+3 to initiative checks on a mask you aren't using) p.234
Epic level handbook p.305: red skull mask (as rod of invulnerability)
Expanded psionics: Crystal mask of detection, Crystal mask of discernment, Crystal mask of dread, Crystal mask of psionic craft, crystal mask of mindarmor, Crystal mask of insightful detection, crystal mask of knowledge, crystal mask of languages
OA: mempo of purethought p.141 porcelin mask p.141,
Sandstorm: Intelligent Dance Masks of the Great Mother p.136.
Champions of Valor: mask of tears p.72,
Magic of faerun: white skull mask p.167, winged mask
Races of Faerun: Mask of the implacable p.173,
Unapproachable East: Hathran masks p.56-57, sharporal's mask

[ExLibrisMortis]

"Mask" is not a body-slot, nor a mechanical term.
It is, however, implicitly defined by all the magic items that are called 'mask', are 'worn', have a 'caster level', and so on, and by the examples of items that occupy the face slot. Though I have to say, your point has merit. There's certainly room to play it a little loose. As I said before, I'd have no problem with it balance-wise, I just prefer to keep my soulmelds a little more distinct from magic items, but that's a fluff concern at best.

[Nifft]

It is, however, implicitly defined by all the magic items that are called 'mask', are 'worn', have a 'caster level', and so on, and by the examples of items that occupy the face slot.

The problem here is that you're using a self-inclusion clause ("This thing is a mask") as though it were an exclusive definition.

Statements of inclusion are not definitions.


Here is what it looks like you are doing:

DMG: "This mask does X." <== you: Okay, that's what mask means.

MoI: "This mask does Y." <== you: That's no true mask! It wasn't like that in the earlier book.


== == ==

As an aside, I'd also allow the MoM feature to apply to mask-like spells (mask of the ideal for example) and symbiotes.

[ExLibrisMortis]

The problem here is that you're using a self-inclusion clause ("This thing is a mask") as though it were an exclusive definition.
In D&D, that is exactly how definitions work. Something is only a martial weapon until it is called a martial weapon, and only those things called martial weapons are martial weapons, because when talking about game objects, there is nothing outside what is already written in the rules. In short: the Brass Mane soulmeld is a totemist throat soulmeld with the [sonic] descriptor, but a mask, I'm not so sure.

In general, statements of inclusion are most definitely definitions. Splorgs = {cat, teapot, mask} defines exactly what members of Splorgs are, and Splorgs is exclusively defined by its members.

Anyhow, I'm not otherwise disagreeing that there's a case to let MoM boost soulmelds and whatnot.

I had a quick look at ethergaunts, who wear masks as a racial feature (they are literally too ugly to look at), but sadly, they have no abilities that depend on the mask. They just take them off to dominate/stupefy people.

[daremetoidareyo]

So far everyone has been correct. Soulless aren't magic items as defined by magic items but the are semi Permenant magical objects that are 'worn' like magic items by definition. MoM's abilities apply to "magic masks you wear such as the mask of the skull"

Magic masks you wear isn't a defined term. It could mean magic items and only magic items or it can apply to masks of any sort that can be construed to be magical. Soulmelds are definitely a go in the latter category, and I'm pretty convinced they go in the former one as well. That said, ymmv, because RAW is contradictory with Soulmelds being schroedinger's magic items.

[The Viscount]

As laid out, because soulmelds are like magic items, and because many "mask" melds have brow binds that would prevent wearing other masks, there seems to me very strong precedent to accept them on the basis of intent, (since as we've established an ironclad answer cannot be gained from the RAW).

I would personally say that the basilisk mask would function regardless of whether it was visible or not, since the force behind it is the gaze attack you gain, more than the mask. I would also hold the same for the fearsome mask, though that might seem a bit odd to say you scare enemies with an invisible mask. Fortunately the rule says simply "the benefit applies regardless of whether or not it is visible."

Looking at the ability, I'm somewhat confused why Mask Specialist would boost the power of other masks, since a Master of Masks can wear multiple persona masks, but has no ability to wear multiple of other magical masks.

[daremetoidareyo]

Looking at the ability, I'm somewhat confused why Mask Specialist would boost the power of other masks, since a Master of Masks can wear multiple persona masks, but has no ability to wear multiple of other magical masks.

It's right there in the prestige class name. They are the "master of masks."

So far, my favorite hack of the class is to use the truebond rituals on one of the alchemical masks/mundane like the desmodu breather masks to get +3 bonuses to some sweet skill boosts, depending on what you're optimizing for. Ritual of purity gives +3 to all con based skill checks, ritual of theft make open lock checks become a take 13, ritual of travel gives +3 survival.



faiths of eberron: MASK OF THE UNDYING p.154
races of eberron: tracker mask p.177
Sharn 2 towers: mask of misplaced aura p.170