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View Full Version : Homebrew Class Feature: Wild Magic Legacy (and balance discussion)



dreast
2017-09-02, 03:36 PM
Class Feature: Wild Magic Legacy
At 3rd level, Sorcerers who take the Wild Magic sorcerous origin gain the following two spells. These spells do not count against the max number of cantrips or spells they may know, and may not be traded out for other spells. These spells count as sorcerer spells for the sorcerer.

Nahal's Reckless Dweomer*
Evocation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous

You tap into the forces of raw chaos and deliberately trigger a Wild Surge. Since this effort is deliberate, you have some slight measure of influence over the outcome. Roll 1d8 and add the result to your Wild Surge roll. (Any roll over 100 counts as a roll of 100.) If you have the Controlled Chaos class feature, add the same bonus to both rolls. Any additional Wild Surge rolls that result from this surge are rolled normally.
Your ability to influence the outcome increases by 1d8 when you reach 5th level (2d8), 11th level (3d8), and 17th level (4d8).
Note: This roll uses the default wild surge table even if other wild surge tables are being used for randomly generated wild surges (with appropriate substitutions if, for example, your campaign doesn't have modrons).

Chaos Shield*
2nd level Abjuration
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self
Components: V, S
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

This powerful spell increases a Wild Mage's chance to gain a favorable result when a wild surge occurs. The first time a roll is made on the Wild Surge chart during this spell's duration, you add 25 to the die roll. (Any roll over 100 counts as a 100.) If the wild surge is the result of Nahal's Reckless Dweomer, the bonus stacks with the bonus rolled by the cantrip.

*These spells are not technically part of any class's spell list, so only a class feature that grants them will allow a character access to them.

Balance discussion (contributions welcome!)

The intent of the old Nahal's (a 1st level spell in AD&D 2e) was to give casters a slim chance to cast any spell from their spellbook in return for the massive risk of a wild surge (of course, that risk carried its own chance of reward). Since 5e Wild Surges don't interfere with the spells being cast (usually), the old "spell cast normally" result on the old tables doesn't apply, so any attempt at conversion needs to look to intent rather than wording.

The modern equivalent to the old 100 roll is the "sorcerer regains all spell points" roll, which has its own intriguing possibilities. For sorcerers, this is arguably more powerful than getting an Xth level slot for a 1st level slot was for old wild mages, since a Sorcerer can always recover at least their highest level spell slot (up to 5th, which is where the "normal" spell levels end, and is a reasonable cap for the effectiveness of NRD in this much more balanced setting) from their current sorcery points, and as they gain levels they get more and more of them. In addition, Wild Sorcerers can start using Bend Luck at 6th level to get even more utility out of their SPs. Sorcerers don't need the flexibility of the old NRD because they can already cast any spell they know if they've got the slot, and this new NRD will give them the slot(s)... if they're lucky.

The die progression works pretty well as well. It's on average more powerful (but more swingy... yay wild magic!) than the old "+1 per caster level", although it tapers off at very high levels (which are unbalanced anyway, so no apologies).

Of course, the downside is that even if you get your 100, you've just spent your action; however, since it's a cantrip, a quickened spell is allowed as a bonus action, so the end result is probably exactly what it looked like in AD&D 2nd: nahal's worked, yay, fireball. (Or, more commonly, the group party cry of "Oh no! Not Nahal's!") In the case that the player is completely out of spell slots, the bonus action can instead be used to recover some: still a very useful turn, and still very much in keeping with the spirit of the action economy.

DMs who house rule that Tides of Chaos comes back on the next randomly rolled wild surge (to prevent any DM discretion in what should be purely random) should specifically not let their players use Nahal's to get it back. (It wouldn't from the RAW anyway.)

Being a cantrip has its own concerns, so let's split those up:

1. In combat: In combat, the expected return on Nahal's is generally less than a firebolt spell. How many turns did you spend on Nahal's? And what did it do for you? It summoned an unhappy Modron and turned you into a potted plant. Yay? Meanwhile, Mr. Firebolt just did 4d10 damage. (+a lot if he's a firey dragonblood!) Even beneficial outcomes (besides the Big One, which is generally what the player is aiming for) are typically situationally beneficial, with the occasional rare universally nice outcome (resistance to all damage for a minute, regain lowest expended spell slot, etc.). The upside, of course, is that it CAN be very powerful, and especially once the wild sorcerer hits level 14 they should probably be casting it frequently. That said, that's beyond the "balanced" part of the game and perfectly in flavor, so it works.

2. Out of Combat: More of a concern, since a wild sorcerer could delay the game while they carefully recover all spell slots this way. In all practicality, though, the party will probably get sick of randomly being fireballed and confused long before they get sick of the table time wasted, and a "no Nahal's outside of combat" rule would probably be passed in-game before it became necessary to mandate one out-of-game. At the end of the day, retreating and resting is just plum more effective, even with any penalties for doing so (random encounters, dungeon denizens reacting, etc.).

Chaos Shield only applies to one wild surge instead of all of them (and takes concentration) to avoid abuses of quickened spells with Nahal's. It's still a viable pre-combat buff, but it's not nearly as broken as it was back in 2e. That said, it gets better the more sorcerer points the wild sorcerer has (i.e., the higher their level), so it's probably not worth it the level the sorcerer gets it.

The old Improved Chaos Shield is supplanted by the Controlled Chaos class feature, which is a) much more powerful statistically b) always on, permanently and c) appears at the same time that Improved Chaos Shield used to (14th level, since it was a 7th level spell). As such, I feel no need to reproduce it here.

So, lastly, the question: Is this necessary? Given that the wild sorcerer is generally considered a second-class citizen to the dragonblood or the storm sorcerer in terms of raw power (although still perfectly playable), I think the answer is a solid maybe. It all depends on the group, but especially old-timer players should really enjoy the return of the classic flavor of the great Hail Mary of wild magic options. And who knows? It may just save the day!

Ninja_Prawn
2017-09-03, 07:41 AM
This is an interesting implementation of wild magic and admirably faithful to the original, but... doesn't this fall down on the fact that the WMS results aren't sorted from least to most desirable? Yes, the 100 result is pretty good, which makes your chaos shield worth casting, but it's not that much above the other beneficial WMS results.

And I don't think this solves the issue of wild magic seeming less attractive than draconic ancestry. Firstly, mage armour is still a tax on both your spells known and your spell slots. At low levels, that's crippling. Plus the extra hit points, Cha to damage and at-will flight that draconic sorcerers get are all solid, combat-power features, while the wild mage features are a little lacklustre from start to finish. It's not just the unpredictability of WMS that's scaring people off.

If it's of any interest, I made my own version of Nahal's reckless dweomer over here (http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2017/06/blast-from-past-spells.html). It's completely different from the original, but intended to be equally thematic, clearly useful and easier to balance.


Since 5e Wild Surges don't interfere with the spells being cast (usually)

As an aside, my players and I thought about this pretty hard and decided that the WMS has to replace the intended spell. Otherwise it seems grossly overpowered, since several of the WMS options are as powerful as spells in their own right. We've had four surges so far, and I feel our approach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?504278-A-Faerie-Affair-OOC-III-Fey-Were-Expendable) has worked well.

dreast
2017-09-03, 10:26 AM
This is an interesting implementation of wild magic and admirably faithful to the original, but... doesn't this fall down on the fact that the WMS results aren't sorted from least to most desirable? Yes, the 100 result is pretty good, which makes your chaos shield worth casting, but it's not that much above the other beneficial WMS results.[\QUOTE]

Neither were the wild magic tables in AD&D 2e. In fact, if they were, this cantrip would be much too powerful (and much less fun!).

"In magical terms, I can play a pretty mean tune. But when I miss a note, the flute shoots fire at everyone. Also, the flute sometimes turns me into a hamster." - Neera, Wild Mage

"You have to take the good with the bad!" - Adoy, Wild Mage

[QUOTE]And I don't think this solves the issue of wild magic seeming less attractive than draconic ancestry. Firstly, mage armour is still a tax on both your spells known and your spell slots. At low levels, that's crippling. Plus the extra hit points, Cha to damage and at-will flight that draconic sorcerers get are all solid, combat-power features, while the wild mage features are a lacklustre from start to finish. It's not just the unpredictability of WMS that's scaring people off.

I'd actually say that the availability of mage armor reduces the potency of that draconic ancestry trait, since wild sorcerers can get a similar effect easily. At-will flight hits at the same time as controlled chaos, which wildly increases the utility of NRD, so this does sort of fix that (as is the intent). The extra hit points and the bonus damage are high utility, yes, but also somewhat boring; I think this would come down to player preference.


If it's of any interest, I made my own version of Nahal's reckless dweomer over here. It's completely different from the original, but intended to be equally thematic, clearly useful and easier to balance.

RAW, that spell will let you generate infinite 100 gp pearls by selecting identify over and over again. Might want to tweak that a bit.

And I would argue that "clearly useful" and "equally thematic" are oxymorons when it comes to wild mages and wild sorcerers. The theme, after all, is "swingy."


As an aside, my players and I thought about this pretty hard and decided that the WMS has to replace the intended spell. Otherwise it seems grossly overpowered, since several of the WMS options are as powerful as spells in their own right. We've had four surges so far, and I feel our approach has worked well.

Wait... you thought wild sorcerers were underpowered so you gave them an up to 5% spell failure chance? The wild table in the PHB is built around the fact that it accompanies the spell. The potentially powerful utility of the surge is intended to counteract the weaknesses of that origin when compared to draconic bloodline, and make for some great gameplay moments when the fate of the party hangs on the wildly unpredictable surge. It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!

EdenIndustries
2017-09-03, 11:15 AM
Since I love the Wild Magic Sorcerer (it's just so fun!) I would use your Nahal's Reckless Dweomer cantrip pretty much every turn! You just can't beat that for hilarious and unexpected results, and that's why I love the Wild Magic Sorcerer in the first place! However adding the d8s seems unnecessary to me. You're not really adding any control to the spell. If I could roll a d8 and either add or subtract it from the result I roll on the Surge table, that'd at least be something. Otherwise it's basically just replacing a random roll with another random roll. I know it provides a higher chance of hitting higher values but meh. Personally I'd opt for no d8s, or if thematically you do want the "slight measure of influence over the outcome", I'd be a fan of choosing to add or subtract after you see the normal d100 roll.

Also Ninja_Prawn, I would also use your version of Nahal’s Reckless Dweomer too. Not all the time, perhaps, but sometimes you really want a 1st level spell off of another class list and this is a very fun way to make it happen!

Ninja_Prawn
2017-09-03, 11:29 AM
RAW, that spell will let you generate infinite 100 gp pearls by selecting identify over and over again. Might want to tweak that a bit.

True. The intent is that the components disappear once they've been used, but I should probably write that in black and white...


Wait... you thought wild sorcerers were underpowered so you gave them an up to 5% spell failure chance?

Well, I don't really think they're underpowered, what I said before was more like... why other people get turned off the wild mage. And my starting position was that the WMS shouldn't replace the spell, but my players (including the sorcerer) argued otherwise. It probably helps that the particular game is very heavy on the social and exploration pillars, so the direct combat power of a draconic sorcerer is relatively less attractive and they're generally able to parlay negative WMS results into positive outcomes via roleplaying.


You're not really adding any control to the spell. If I could roll a d8 and either add or subtract it from the result I roll on the Surge table, that'd at least be something. Otherwise it's basically just replacing a random roll with another random roll.

That's what I was trying to get at. Having the choice of + or - (in which case, I'd probably make it a d4) would massively improve this spell.

dreast
2017-09-03, 11:42 AM
That's what I was trying to get at. Having the choice of + or - (in which case, I'd probably make it a d4) would massively improve this spell.

I thought about this, but that makes it almost identical to the Controlled Chaos feature (a 14th level ability!). The intent of that part is to replicate the old "more powerful wild sorcerers have a higher percent chance of getting exactly what they want"... a free spell in AD&D 2nd (well, free minus one first level slot), and sorcery points (one bonus action away from at least one free spell) in 5e, where the action economy would probably frown on the AD&D 2nd version anyway. Statistically, it doesn't only change out one random effect for another... it reduces the possibility of getting a low roll (the lowest of which is a minute (!!!) of pure randomness) in exchange for an equally increased possibility of getting the 100 roll.

Wild sorcerers never got to CHOOSE their wild surge under NRD... they only got to weight the odds slightly in their favor (and more heavily the higher level they got). So if it's not unbalanced, the D&D historian in me wants to keep the wording as is... scaling equally with other cantrips with an effect that's pretty close to the original.

On perhaps a side note, it's interesting to note that they completely eliminated multiple wild surges in a single turn for sorcerers... the only thing that comes close is the 01-02 roll of wild surging every round for a minute. That single effect means that wild sorcerers share the fairly unique ability, along with 2nd level fighters and their multiclasses, of having two spell effects going off in a single round, breaking the action economy. Granted, they don't get to CONTROL those effects, but it still must have caused some winces around the table when wild sorcerers were being balanced for 5e. [Edit: Okay, twinned spell sort of does the same thing, so I guess it's more of a guideline than a rule...]

EdenIndustries
2017-09-03, 11:49 AM
I thought about this, but that makes it almost identical to the Controlled Chaos feature (a 14th level ability!).
Yeah that is true, but it would also interact nicely with that feature once you get it.


it reduces the possibility of getting a low roll (the lowest of which is a minute (!!!) of pure randomness)
That's the one roll I wish it didn't reduce the possibility of! That's my favourite result! Which probably shouldn't surprise you given that I just said I wanted to cast the cantrip every turn so I could constantly be surging :smallsmile:

EdenIndustries
2017-09-03, 02:54 PM
Putting aside the notion of the d8 mod to the cantrip, I wonder how balanced the cantrip would be if all it did was trigger a Wild Magic Surge with no d8s or other rolls. Because even that I'd still use all the time. I guess it depends on the DM, but if I found one that allowed it, boy that'd make me a happy Sorcerer!

dreast
2017-09-08, 04:01 PM
Well, it's good you found your class!