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Metahuman1
2017-09-03, 02:09 AM
Alright, so, quick bit of relevant information.


I am running an IRL group in a Monster Gestalt Sandbox game. This past session, the party member whom was hosting us in his house (Him doing so due to having both space AND sufficient Air Conditioning at his place.) had a couple of friends over.

One of whom wanted to give the game a try because he's played before but never a monster game. He rolled up a Drow with Wizard on the Drow LA side and after I'd showed him Tome of Battle, he decided he wanted to give that a try and rolled up a Warblade. Bought a pair of Kukri's after seeing Blood In The Water stance, and the picked up Mountain Hammer and all the rest of his maneuver's aside from those are Diamond Mind.


He has rolled a Good Str, Dex and Int. He's still figuring out what else he might want to do. His other feats are a reserve feat that keys off his wizard casting cause he wants to have some kind of magic kept in his back pocket, Improved Inititative, and I suggested and let him take as a first level feat Keen Intellect. He has 2 flaws which are of nominal importance, and is at 3rd level.



I'm considering suggesting he steer toward a Crit Fisher Build.

The problem I'm having is he can't crit about 5 types of enemy's, and anything with heavy Fortification or a buff spell effecting them that duplicates that effect. Which are going to get more common as he gains levels.

He doesn't have PA, so Str, Int and Maneuver's and Crits are going to be his damage output source. And I've no plans to coddle the players.


All that leads into my question.

TLDR: How badly would it hurt game balance if over the course of a couple of encounters, I dropped him Items that let him between them bypass ALL forms of Crit Immunity, and later down the road allowed him to buy Katori Resin Kukri's?








And then there's the other person. She didn't join in last session, but wants too. As we were packing up she mentioned briefly liking cat creatures, so I suggested maybe something with a Were Tiger off hand, and she's thinking on it. I'm going to assume a yes for the purposes of asking this question, so I can have everything thought out if the answer IS yes.

She's a beginner player, she's been in 1 game at low levels before and that's it. So I expect she'll be asking lot's of questions and interested in advice I give.

And I in turn am going to try to steer her in simple but effective directions. Barbarian is being very heavily considered by me. And then I remembered She already HAS pounce and Improved Grab from Were Tiger.

So, the second question becomes, are there any other AFC's that swap out Fast Movement for something more useful then Fast Movement, but grant something OTHER then pounce or Improved Grab because this is for a character who already has them from elsewhere?




Thanks for the help!

Eldariel
2017-09-03, 03:57 AM
Alright, so, quick bit of relevant information.

I am running an IRL group in a Monster Gestalt Sandbox game. This past session, the party member whom was hosting us in his house (Him doing so due to having both space AND sufficient Air Conditioning at his place.) had a couple of friends over.

One of whom wanted to give the game a try because he's played before but never a monster game. He rolled up a Drow with Wizard on the Drow LA side and after I'd showed him Tome of Battle, he decided he wanted to give that a try and rolled up a Warblade. Bought a pair of Kukri's after seeing Blood In The Water stance, and the picked up Mountain Hammer and all the rest of his maneuver's aside from those are Diamond Mind.


He has rolled a Good Str, Dex and Int. He's still figuring out what else he might want to do. His other feats are a reserve feat that keys off his wizard casting cause he wants to have some kind of magic kept in his back pocket, Improved Inititative, and I suggested and let him take as a first level feat Keen Intellect. He has 2 flaws which are of nominal importance, and is at 3rd level.



I'm considering suggesting he steer toward a Crit Fisher Build.

The problem I'm having is he can't crit about 5 types of enemy's, and anything with heavy Fortification or a buff spell effecting them that duplicates that effect. Which are going to get more common as he gains levels.

He doesn't have PA, so Str, Int and Maneuver's and Crits are going to be his damage output source. And I've no plans to coddle the players.


All that leads into my question.

TLDR: How badly would it hurt game balance if over the course of a couple of encounters, I dropped him Items that let him between them bypass ALL forms of Crit Immunity, and later down the road allowed him to buy Katori Resin Kukri's?


Balance always Depends on the rest of the party, but probably, not very. The Greater Crystals from MIC pretty much do this already, though you'd have to switch the Crystal being used to match the enemy you're facing. But no, I doubt you'd be breaking much. Kaorti Resin is another matter; it does quite the number for his damage, particularly if you allow some 3.0 stuff that enable improving the crit range (Weapon Master, Disciple of Dispater, etc.). That said, damage is just damage so it's not all that. Also, Stormguard Warrior is really solid on TWF chassis so you might want to give him that idea as well.


And then there's the other person. She didn't join in last session, but wants too. As we were packing up she mentioned briefly liking cat creatures, so I suggested maybe something with a Were Tiger off hand, and she's thinking on it. I'm going to assume a yes for the purposes of asking this question, so I can have everything thought out if the answer IS yes.

She's a beginner player, she's been in 1 game at low levels before and that's it. So I expect she'll be asking lot's of questions and interested in advice I give.

And I in turn am going to try to steer her in simple but effective directions. Barbarian is being very heavily considered by me. And then I remembered She already HAS pounce and Improved Grab from Were Tiger.

So, the second question becomes, are there any other AFC's that swap out Fast Movement for something more useful then Fast Movement, but grant something OTHER then pounce or Improved Grab because this is for a character who already has them from elsewhere?



See Being Bane (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?105525-3-5e-Being-Bane-Eldariel-s-Guide-to-Barbarians): all the Spirit Totems, Aquatic Barbarian, Roofdweller. Not all that amazing options, but some reasonable ones - basically all related to movement. CChamp Wolf Totem improves flanking, Fox/Eagle grant skill bonuses. Aquatic grants swim speed, Roofdweller some dumb feats. Fast Movement itself is quite solid though. I really like it in Core, and if you ever use flight based on landspeed (e.g. Feathered Wings graft [Fiend Folio] or Air Walk), it still follows through.

If you want to give her straight Barbarian, I recommend:
Trapkiller
Street Fighter
Skilled City-Dweller: Ride for Tumble (since Weretiger benefits awfully lot more from the latter than the former)

Other ACFs to taste. But those are cool upgrades on the base chassis that slowly grant her added options. Bear Totem (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bearTotemClassFeatures ) is reasonable, while Toughness is useless, getting Improved Grapple and +4 to Grappling for free is pretty nice for a Weretiger. Wolf Totem is the classic option, of course. Sadly there's no Tiger totem :smalltongue:

Metahuman1
2017-09-03, 04:32 AM
Right. But the thing is, he doesn't have many other ways to scale up his damage right now with out seriously sinking his spells into it. He can, when he get's the class feature on Warblade, pump his Str AND Int, and he can greater Magic Weapon his blades and use his maneuver's, but he can't PA or Sneak Attack with them or the like. And he can Crit. And yeah, I was thinking the Greater True Death and Demolition Crystals would be a worth while start point, maybe drop him some for elementals, Oozees and comparable monsters and for Plants. And then at higher levels give him something to bypass Fortification and comparable buff spells. I'm thinking it will buff his damage enough to keep it from becoming an irrelevancy, but not enough to make it Unmanageable. And with a Dragon and a Were Tiger in the party I anticipate I'll just have to cope with a party with high DPS sooner or later anyway, so that's already factored in.








I was eyeing the Unearthed Arcana Wolf Totem for her. Thing is Were Tiger get's both Pounce AND improved Grab. Which is why I wasn't leaning toward Bear Totem as a go too to fix this.

I'd leave it alone if it stacked with Haste as was. But Alas, it doesn't, so while it might be nice for a level or two, it will eventually go away when they start popping that spell at the start of fights in the party.

ExLibrisMortis
2017-09-03, 07:00 AM
The warblade is still advancing wizard, right? How about Arcane Strike?


For the were-tiger: How about a Swift Hunter build, with were-tiger 7/scout 3/ranger 4 as starting point? You have native pounce and a ton of attacks, so you're really good at ambushing. Later on, you can expand the were-tiger side by adding simple or complicated stuff: fighter, totemist, battle dancer, warblade.

A single level of Bloodclaw Master will get you full damage on off-hand claw attacks. I'd say that might affect rakes, but maybe not. Worth looking at, anyway.

Metahuman1
2017-09-03, 08:06 AM
Hmmmm, I might point that one out to him. Don't know how much he'd go for it but it's gotta be worth a shot.

How do you feel about the crit fishing ideas though?









En, I'm probably going to suggest one of three builds. Either a kind of tanky Crusader so she can learn about the wonderful world of reach and locking down the battle field, a Barbarian/Fighter/Warblade so she can learn some of the Intimidation Tricks, Scouting, 2 handed power attacking, maybe Bullsrushing, and later in the game she can have a chance to learn to use Tome of Battle as well.

Third option is Unarmed Swordsage so she can learn the wonderful World of Tome of Battle when you have 3 Natural Attacks + Unarmed Strikes + Snap Kicks + Rakes to help back those maneuvers.


I'm just trying to get the Barbarian part of that second one Ironed out.

ExLibrisMortis
2017-09-03, 09:50 AM
I'm not that well-versed in critfishing, I'm afraid. It's good, I guess? Got to make those crits stick on immune targets, which means magic.


For an intimidating barbarian were-tiger, you can't go wrong with Champion of Gwynharwyf 4. Enter rage, make an Intimidate check, anyone coming within 30' of you while you rage must save (DC = check result) or be shaken. Add some Imperious Command, and you're pouncing on cowering enemies (fear immunity is a thing, but okay).

daremetoidareyo
2017-09-03, 10:20 AM
Ape totem barbarian 3 gives you power attack and a climb speed which is awesome for a tiger that might one day get to fight in the woods. Unfortunately, you need to trade out uncanny dodge and trapsense as well as fast movement.

Metahuman1
2017-09-03, 07:25 PM
Darn, that would have been perfect if it wasn't for that.