Breaking campaign sterotypes, role reversal.

[Dankus Memakus]

Now many games ive been a part of that have homebrew settings have one thing in common, there was a major event long before the pcs are born (such as a war or cataclysm) that caused the elves dwarves gnomes and other such creatures to be the dominant cultures in the world and the goblinoids, orcs, ogres, kobolds and other creatures on the opposite end of the spectrum. Now what if the war or disaster happened but instead of an elven empire forming why not a Hobgoblin empire? Since goblins and orcs and such are capable of good why not male them the good guys for once and make elves forest dwelling evil magic wielding savages and dwarves isolationists that would let the world burn to protect their riches? Just a thought, maybe someone has tried this i mean i doubt this is an original idea. If you did try this how would you go about it? What races would have what role?

[Thrudd]

Sure, do whatever you want. The reason for that stereotype is that those have been the playable races in D&D - so they are generally the "good guys", or at least the "civilized guys", because the game is about going out from civilization into wild dangerous places. In the world where goblins are the good/civilized folk, then they will be the main playable races, that's all there is to it. 5e already has stats for those races established in Volo's Guide, so you don't even need to do much work. Just tell players which races are playable. Of course, changing those creatures from monsters into civilized people might also suggest you should alter some of their abilities - because some of those creatures' stats might be determined based on the assumed setting, where they live on the fringes. You might want to determine what their cultures are like first, then look at how they are represented by the rules and decide what is appropriate and what isn't.

[Footman]

This sounds like a Great Idea! I would likely reverse the roles.
I would Turn the Elves into Marauders, ruthless Nomads who take what they can take to survive, Magical Still but they would have thrown away all that "refinement" Stuff. They would rely on Archers on Horseback as well as quick Cavalvary Strikes (a bit Hun like). While they would still have Magic, they wouldn't focuse on the "Elegant" Schools, but on Evocation blasting their Enemys away.

Hobgoblins could easily build a very big and orderly Empire, set on Expanding itself but not outright Evil. They would even have good trade relations with many countries to help their own Economy. They could actually turn into a good Race that primarely replaces the humans.

Orcs would still be very Tribal, but you could make them to be "noble savage" Tribes of deeply Spiritual People. (Kinda like Native Americans, or you could give them a Nordish Culture.) They would replace the Wood Elves in a sense.

The Dwarfs are the easiest to Make Evil. They would Tunnel under the World, and build Massiver Fortresses. They technological highly Advanced Army would suddenly strike like a Warhammer when they emerge from the Earth to raid a City into the Ground to take all of theire Gold.

The Halflings would be a Race of poisners, thieves Murderers and Backstabbers. (Like the Drow just egalitarian instead of Martriarchal)

Humans as varied as they come have many options to make Evil.

The Drow could also be made into a good Race, you just have to revluff them so that they become a bit more like WOW Night Elves. (Who knows maybe some Divine Stuff happend Lolth turned back to good reforming the Dark Elves.) They would be the highly Magical Moonlight Empire whos Castles only appear in the Night.

Goblins and Kobolds, can actually take the Role of Halflings, as nice little Fellows. They would be mostly in the Shadow of the Hobgoblins, but would none the less thrive in the Hobgoblin Empire.

There are so many options! I can't list them all! Your Idea would make for a very refreshing Campaign.

[Dankus Memakus]

This sounds like a Great Idea! I would likely reverse the roles.
I would Turn the Elves into Marauders, ruthless Nomads who take what they can take to survive, Magical Still but they would have thrown away all that "refinement" Stuff. They would rely on Archers on Horseback as well as quick Cavalvary Strikes (a bit Hun like). While they would still have Magic, they wouldn't focuse on the "Elegant" Schools, but on Evocation blasting their Enemys away.

Hobgoblins could easily build a very big and orderly Empire, set on Expanding itself but not outright Evil. They would even have good trade relations with many countries to help their own Economy. They could actually turn into a good Race that primarely replaces the humans.

Orcs would still be very Tribal, but you could make them to be "noble savage" Tribes of deeply Spiritual People. (Kinda like Native Americans, or you could give them a Nordish Culture.) They would replace the Wood Elves in a sense.

The Dwarfs are the easiest to Make Evil. They would Tunnel under the World, and build Massiver Fortresses. They technological highly Advanced Army would suddenly strike like a Warhammer when they emerge from the Earth to raid a City into the Ground to take all of theire Gold.

The Halflings would be a Race of poisners, thieves Murderers and Backstabbers. (Like the Drow just egalitarian instead of Martriarchal)

Humans as varied as they come have many options to make Evil.

The Drow could also be made into a good Race, you just have to revluff them so that they become a bit more like WOW Night Elves. (Who knows maybe some Divine Stuff happend Lolth turned back to good reforming the Dark Elves.) They would be the highly Magical Moonlight Empire whos Castles only appear in the Night.

Goblins and Kobolds, can actually take the Role of Halflings, as nice little Fellows. They would be mostly in the Shadow of the Hobgoblins, but would none the less thrive in the Hobgoblin Empire.

There are so many options! I can't list them all! Your Idea would make for a very refreshing Campaign.
I actually thought that humans could be left unchanged due to the fact that they are varied so much some would be bound to join the hobgoblin. The halflings i was unsure what to do with, i thought that maybe I could make them chaotic neutral paranoid wanderers since after the elves fell the halflings lost everything and fell into the shadows of the new empires, making the urban halflings theives and the rural ones just wanderers, making them near extinct maybe.

Edit: or maybe give them a small enclave like the shire but they fervently defend it because they never joined the goblins but they broke off all contact with the elves when fell to darkness. Making them neutral between the factions and they are tiny knights and defenders who stay in their lands and protect their people. That would break halfling sterotypes.

[Footman]

I actually thought that humans could be left unchanged due to the fact that they are varied so much some would be bound to join the hobgoblin. The halflings i was unsure what to do with, i thought that maybe I could make them chaotic neutral paranoid wanderers since after the elves fell the halflings lost everything and fell into the shadows of the new empires, making the urban halflings theives and the rural ones just wanderers, making them near extinct maybe.

These are just my Ideas, since you asked for Opinions, it's your Campaign, so change them how you feel most comfortable with.
Humans of course can take any role. That is because pretty much any Fantasy Race is either directly or by Extension (Legends, Fairy Tails), some Human culture.

[Dankus Memakus]

These are just my Ideas, since you asked for Opinions, it's your Campaign, so change them how you feel most comfortable with.
Humans of course can take any role. That is because pretty much any Fantasy Race is either directly or by Extension (Legends, Fairy Tails), some Human culture.

I didn't mean to dis your ideas lol I'm just spewing thoughts. I do like your dwarf thoughts alot, would you toss gnomes in the mix with the dwarves too?

[2D8HP]

...make elves forest dwelling evil magic wielding savages and dwarves isolationists that would let the world burn to protect their riches? Just a thought, maybe someone has tried this i mean i doubt this is an original idea. If you did try this how would you go about it? What races would have what role?


:confused:

Elves and Dwarves aren't like that already?

Dwarves are underground dwellers who make cursed items (The Ring des Nibelungen (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Ring_des_Nibelungen)), and Elves are child stealing near demons ( the "Fair Folk" (https://www.tor.com/2015/10/21/five-reasons-not-to-piss-off-the-fair-folk/)).

When in doubt, just assume that they're going to torture and kill you.

Goblins?

Steal your cattle, and poison your wells in the night.

Kings?

Take your crops, and maybe your children for their wars.

Gods/Goddesses

Out of spite they turn you into spider or a tree, and make you suffer eternally.


Best to keep your head low and escape "the high ones" notice.

Failing that?

Grab some iron, and cut the bastards!

[Pex]

A great Human-Orc alliance and their Half-Orc progeny. They can even be one nation. Male humans and orcs boast of their bravado, tease each other all the time with racial jokes, then drink together. The Women Folk chuckle how the men are all one and the same.

Their cordial neighbor is the hobgoblins, a benign military dictatorship. The hobgoblins are the generals. The goblins are the foot soldiers. Bugbears are special forces.

A bit father away is Giant Country. The giants never lost their Grand Empire. They mostly keep to themselves and think upon philosophical matters. They leave it to the Ogres and Trolls to deal with mundane matters of governing and foreign affairs. The Hill Giants are their go-between.

If you can earn their trust, the Kobold Dragon Riders would be a formidable ally.

[Footman]

I didn't mean to dis your ideas lol I'm just spewing thoughts. I do like your dwarf thoughts alot, would you toss gnomes in the mix with the dwarves too?

Errr, i didn't feel disst. Did i implay that? English is not my own Language, and some things i say might be misunderstood. I just meant that even if you ask for Ideas, if you have your own you like better - just use what you like more =).

Actually Gnomes, are mostly smart Inventors. I would invert this completly to make them into a savage Horde of low Int Barbarians, who only live for Fighting, and throw themselves on the Enemy. Just because it would be funny to see People running from a Barabrian Gnome Horde. They would be like Honey Badgers. Small but friggin vicious!

@2d8HP
Depending on what Depiciton you use, you are absolutly right. You gave to very good examples.

[OracularPoet]

This sounds like a Great Idea! I would likely reverse the roles.
I would Turn the Elves into Marauders, ruthless Nomads who take what they can take to survive, Magical Still but they would have thrown away all that "refinement" Stuff. They would rely on Archers on Horseback as well as quick Cavalvary Strikes (a bit Hun like). While they would still have Magic, they wouldn't focuse on the "Elegant" Schools, but on Evocation blasting their Enemys away.

Hobgoblins could easily build a very big and orderly Empire, set on Expanding itself but not outright Evil. They would even have good trade relations with many countries to help their own Economy. They could actually turn into a good Race that primarely replaces the humans.

Orcs would still be very Tribal, but you could make them to be "noble savage" Tribes of deeply Spiritual People. (Kinda like Native Americans, or you could give them a Nordish Culture.) They would replace the Wood Elves in a sense.

The Dwarfs are the easiest to Make Evil. They would Tunnel under the World, and build Massiver Fortresses. They technological highly Advanced Army would suddenly strike like a Warhammer when they emerge from the Earth to raid a City into the Ground to take all of theire Gold.

The Halflings would be a Race of poisners, thieves Murderers and Backstabbers. (Like the Drow just egalitarian instead of Martriarchal)

Humans as varied as they come have many options to make Evil.

The Drow could also be made into a good Race, you just have to revluff them so that they become a bit more like WOW Night Elves. (Who knows maybe some Divine Stuff happend Lolth turned back to good reforming the Dark Elves.) They would be the highly Magical Moonlight Empire whos Castles only appear in the Night.

Goblins and Kobolds, can actually take the Role of Halflings, as nice little Fellows. They would be mostly in the Shadow of the Hobgoblins, but would none the less thrive in the Hobgoblin Empire.

There are so many options! I can't list them all! Your Idea would make for a very refreshing Campaign.

That's almost a description of Eberron. Marauding elves of Aerenal, halfling crime syndicates of Sharn, Druidic orcish Gatekeepers, ruthless but honorable Dhakhani hobgoblins who are a remnant of an ancient continent-wide hobgoblin empire, jungle-dwelling non-evil tribes of drow. There are even tribes of anti-demon orcs worshipping an abstract lawful good entity.

[ZorroGames]

Now many games ive been a part of that have homebrew settings have one thing in common, there was a major event long before the pcs are born (such as a war or cataclysm) that caused the elves dwarves gnomes and other such creatures to be the dominant cultures in the world and the goblinoids, orcs, ogres, kobolds and other creatures on the opposite end of the spectrum. Now what if the war or disaster happened but instead of an elven empire forming why not a Hobgoblin empire? Since goblins and orcs and such are capable of good why not male them the good guys for once and make elves forest dwelling evil magic wielding savages and dwarves isolationists that would let the world burn to protect their riches? Just a thought, maybe someone has tried this i mean i doubt this is an original idea. If you did try this how would you go about it? What races would have what role?

In Literature you have Grunts by Mary Gentle.

Edit: An offline friend suggests Goblin Corps.

[Dankus Memakus]

Errr, i didn't feel disst. Did i implay that? English is not my own Language, and some things i say might be misunderstood. I just meant that even if you ask for Ideas, if you have your own you like better - just use what you like more =).

Actually Gnomes, are mostly smart Inventors. I would invert this completly to make them into a savage Horde of low Int Barbarians, who only live for Fighting, and throw themselves on the Enemy. Just because it would be funny to see People running from a Barabrian Gnome Horde. They would be like Honey Badgers. Small but friggin vicious!

@2d8HP
Depending on what Depiciton you use, you are absolutly right. You gave to very good examples.

Savage gnomes....there is some hilarious potential there

[CaptainSarathai]

I ran a "noble savages" (hate that name) once, where the elves were still wild, primitive nature spirits, and dwarfs were disaffected, choosing to delve deep into earth and had passed into myth. Humans were still very barbaric.
Meanwhile, I used Hobgoblins as a standing for Imperial Rome. The campaign was based on the expeditions into Germania, attacking the Rhine, but drew inspiration from imperialism throughout history.

I'm realizing now how dark my campaigns get sometimes...

[Kane0]

My gameworld deliberately flips the humanoid superiority thing.

I leaned heavily on the Rule of 3, so in the backstory lore the powers made three different sets of humanoids, which developed into the 'races' that are seen in the books:
Bluebloods ('Scaleykind'): Lizardfolk, dragonborn, Yuan-Ti, Kobolds
Greenbloods ('Beastkin'): Orcs, Goblinoids, Bugbears, Minotaurs, Gnolls
Redbloods ('Manlings'): Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, Gnomes, Goliath
- Creatures of the same blood type can interbreed. Essentially there are only three actual 'races', and each one has many variations. Some of these are very different to each other both physically and culturally but can still make viable offspring. Sort of like dog breeds.
- Planetouched (Tiefling, Aasimar, Genasi, etc) can come from any blood type. It's sort of a template applied to the race.
- Each bloodrace is roughly equal in terms of cultural and technological development as well as age since creation. Different deities/powers patron and play favourites with each one so they are rather balanced despite long histories of conflict.

So when the time to play comes around one can be of pretty much any race and none are considered 'monstrous', even though depending on where you are playing you may or may not be discrimiated against due to race. For example the primarily greenblooded pirates of the Taidan don't really care for race as long as you obey the laws of the captain and can pull your weight whereas the super xenophobic redbloods living in the northern Ashmar mountains might just kill you regardless of what color you bleed, even red if you're ugly ('not gnomish') enough.

[Dankus Memakus]

My gameworld deliberately flips the humanoid superiority thing.

I leaned heavily on the Rule of 3, so in the backstory lore the powers made three different sets of humanoids, which developed into the 'races' that are seen in the books:
Bluebloods ('Scaleykind'): Lizardfolk, dragonborn, Yuan-Ti, Kobolds
Greenbloods ('Beastkin'): Orcs, Goblinoids, Bugbears, Minotaurs, Gnolls
Redbloods ('Manlings'): Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, Gnomes, Goliath
- Creatures of the same blood type can interbreed. Essentially there are only three actual 'races', and each one has many variations. Some of these are very different to each other both physically and culturally but can still make viable offspring. Sort of like dog breeds.
- Planetouched (Tiefling, Aasimar, Genasi, etc) can come from any blood type. It's sort of a template applied to the race.
- Each bloodrace is roughly equal in terms of cultural and technological development as well as age since creation. Different deities/powers patron and play favourites with each one so they are rather balanced despite long histories of conflict.

So when the time to play comes around one can be of pretty much any race and none are considered 'monstrous', even though depending on where you are playing you may or may not be discrimiated against due to race. For example the primarily greenblooded pirates of the Taidan don't really care for race as long as you obey the laws of the captain and can pull your weight whereas the super xenophobic redbloods living in the northern Ashmar mountains might just kill you regardless of what color you bleed, even red if you're ugly ('not gnomish') enough.

I like your ideas...nuff said.

[Dankus Memakus]

I ran a "noble savages" (hate that name) once, where the elves were still wild, primitive nature spirits, and dwarfs were disaffected, choosing to delve deep into earth and had passed into myth. Humans were still very barbaric.
Meanwhile, I used Hobgoblins as a standing for Imperial Rome. The campaign was based on the expeditions into Germania, attacking the Rhine, but drew inspiration from imperialism throughout history.

I'm realizing now how dark my campaigns get sometimes...

What alignment were your hobgoblins? I'm my world I'd like them to be good because a friends lawful good hobgoblin cleric holds a special place in my heart.

[Kane0]

I like your ideas...nuff said.

Steal as much as you like :smallsmile:
One small problem I've come across is that there is no convenient humanoid race to use as an enemy in a pinch, or to use for a Beer & Pretzels & Orcslaying sort of game. Well unless you get creative with centaurs and the like.

[Dankus Memakus]

Steal as much as you like :smallsmile:
One small problem I've come across is that there is no convenient humanoid race to use as an enemy in a pinch, or to use for a Beer & Pretzels & Orcslaying sort of game. Well unless you get creative with centaurs and the like.

I think my elves will replace my orcs

I want mt elves to be irredeemably evil because i hate elves lol

[Dankus Memakus]

For all who are reminded of Rome by hobgoblins im the same way how do you flesh it out?

[The Shadowdove]

I've played a couple of lengthy campaigns with the same/similar concepts.

If you do have a party or very just player characters, make sure that they develop strong npc relationships with those they save from the grasp of evil tyrants.

That way when the characters return to find that the NPCs have been slaughtered in horrible ways to make an example of anyone who dares defy the monster races they take it personally.

Strong subterfuge is usually necessary to get around too. So the face of the party could really benefit from disguise kit or illusion usage.

In any of the many fantasy novels with this sort of setting, usually the player characters have to cover up that they helped the Innocents to spare them punishment. They also tend to have to use deceit and back roads to get from plot device to plot device while they try to find some mcguffin or get artifact, person, item, etc. From point A to point B.

Unsavory alliances also make for great npc and theme flavor. With the 50/50 chance of having a useful ally who expects something in return, or that same ally turning them in for their own benefit.

The one thing that's important is that you never reveal the bbegs boss, make them a terrifying enigma. Make the bbeg that wants the players Alive or dead terrifying themselves, and emphasize that they fear and respect their ruler.

The players should feel that they are in constant threat of being ended even when they make a huge breakthrough. Everything is a double edged sword and you can only hope that one edge is slightly duller than the other.

[JackPhoenix]

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/89/15/ee/8915ee67c43f0d24f7e429d62e33851c--nerd-jokes-dungeons-and-dragons.jpg

All right, not all: Eberron game set during the times of Dhaakani Empire would be interesting, though no humans were present back then, and depending on the period, elves were driven off Khorvaire when http://68.media.tumblr.com/1fb367756f6fbc8d1874588b8ee228e1/tumblr_nixz6l2bIG1rv231do1_500.jpg hit. The empire itself lasted for thousands of years, so lot of things happened during that time. And even after their civilization was shattered, there's an opportunity to play whatever remains facing the first humans invaders, returning elves and formerly "pacified" gnomes and halflings. Dwarves were also around, but they kept to themselves. Malleon the Reaver got his nickname for a reason, and he certainly fills the role of marauding CE monster perfectly.

[JBPuffin]

I've played a couple of lengthy campaigns with the same/similar concepts.

If you do have a party or very just player characters, make sure that they develop strong npc relationships with those they save from the grasp of evil tyrants.

That way when the characters return to find that the NPCs have been slaughtered in horrible ways to make an example of anyone who dares defy the monster races they take it personally.

Strong subterfuge is usually necessary to get around too. So the face of the party could really benefit from disguise kit or illusion usage.

In any of the many fantasy novels with this sort of setting, usually the player characters have to cover up that they helped the Innocents to spare them punishment. They also tend to have to use deceit and back roads to get from plot device to plot device while they try to find some mcguffin or get artifact, person, item, etc. From point A to point B.

Unsavory alliances also make for great npc and theme flavor. With the 50/50 chance of having a useful ally who expects something in return, or that same ally turning them in for their own benefit.

The one thing that's important is that you never reveal the bbegs boss, make them a terrifying enigma. Make the bbeg that wants the players Alive or dead terrifying themselves, and emphasize that they fear and respect their ruler.

The players should feel that they are in constant threat of being ended even when they make a huge breakthrough. Everything is a double edged sword and you can only hope that one edge is slightly duller than the other.

Honestly, most of this sounds like stereotypical campaigning rather than "breaking" stereotypes. OP's coming at this more from the race perspective, with the traditionally good races (elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes) trading roles with traditionally monstrous races (kobolds, goblinoids, orcs) and have legitimately swapped rather than simply the PCs being confused/tricked. Hobgoblins building Lawful and/or Good empires which maintain peace at least as well as Nerath did, Humans still being their usual cosmopolitan selves, Drow being the heroic elves and the others being just vile. Most of this, I think, is coming from the idea that the races in charge flip, but not their moralities; that is, Sauron won the war, rather than the hobbits having been goblins living in a Shire who alongside bugbears, hobgoblins, and orcs fought off an elven invasion force in order to destroy the One Ring, which I think is what OP's talking about and definitely what the rest of us are going off of.

I'm going to write up some stuff for my own use and come back with it. This has so many different directions it could go.

[T.G. Oskar]

That's almost a description of Eberron. Marauding elves of Aerenal, halfling crime syndicates of Sharn, Druidic orcish Gatekeepers, ruthless but honorable Dhakhani hobgoblins who are a remnant of an ancient continent-wide hobgoblin empire, jungle-dwelling non-evil tribes of drow. There are even tribes of anti-demon orcs worshipping an abstract lawful good entity.

I second this. Eberron has a pretty interesting inversion in multiple timelines.


The Age of Giants had Giant civilization as a very advanced one - in a way, they are the "Precursor" race, whose remaining relics, artifacts and ruins are what make much of Xen'drik, and thus make it ripe for exploration. Giants in Eberron were very intelligent, physically imposing, and magically superior to almost every race except Dragons. Then they had to fight a race of the dreamworld, and became the brutes most people know...with a few exceptions.
The Dhakaani Empire was a vast and potent empire comprised of the goblinoid races - Goblins, Hobgoblins and Bugbears, with the ones in the middle being the leaders. They were swept away by a multitude of things, including the Daelkyr (a mix of gorgeous, bizarre and terrifying, utmost fetishists, and bringers of madness), and what was left from them was swept away by Humans.
Orcs can be tribal marauders, but they were also taught (by a GREEN Dragon, nonetheless) how to protect the world from that very same Daelkyr. They have a druidic way of life for the most part, while others (as said later) viciously watch over a heavily demon-infested area (called the Demon Wastes, natch) from anyone attempting to enter...or escape. Even if you essentially worship the same deity as them.
Elves have three flavors - death fetish, ancestor worshipping mages, Klingon nomads, or your typical civilized guy (depends if the elf ends up a snob or not). Oh, and the Klingon nomad elves are an offshoot of the death fetishists that considered their form of ancestor worship a bit off.
Gnomes are amiable fellows that are also incredibly curious, hold the secrets of elemental binding, are your typical barristers, notaries and esquires (if they're from House Sivis)...oh, and their cities have ABSOLUTELY NO CRIME. Seriously. Go look at "The Trust" and the term "corligano"... Whoops, me and my loose lips! Had a visit from my old friend Zed that said that's an utter load of baloney and just plain fiction...ehehehe...help
Humans were from another continent altogether, and that continent is under new administration by some nice guys who want to lead them to a path of Inspiration. They are opposed by some similarly-dressed and behaving people who claim they are meat puppets for evil overlords from the dream world. Then there are the guys from Khorvaire, who descend pretty much from a huge invading force and are now the dominant race...in a way.
Droaam. AKA, Monster Country. Monsters here have actual rights and everything!
Halflings are fiercer than Orcs, ride in velociraptors, and actually fight the Klingon nomad elves over who's more badass. Unless they are from House Ghallanda (hostel keepers) or House Jorasco (healers), who are a bit more mellow. But yeah. Tribal dinosaur-riding halflings.
Lizardfolk...well, they are pretty standard. But they live with humans, somewhat peacefully, in a remote corner of the world.
Dwarves...are dwarves. They're the only race that can be played by the book. Except they also control the economy by having the de-facto banking system of the world. So, you either have your typical bank, or you have a dwarf banker, or a dwarf security systems salesman, complete with trap-proofing.



https://i.pinimg.com/736x/89/15/ee/8915ee67c43f0d24f7e429d62e33851c--nerd-jokes-dungeons-and-dragons.jpg

All right, not all: Eberron game set during the times of Dhaakani Empire would be interesting, though no humans were present back then, and depending on the period, elves were driven off Khorvaire when http://68.media.tumblr.com/1fb367756f6fbc8d1874588b8ee228e1/tumblr_nixz6l2bIG1rv231do1_500.jpg hit. The empire itself lasted for thousands of years, so lot of things happened during that time. And even after their civilization was shattered, there's an opportunity to play whatever remains facing the first humans invaders, returning elves and formerly "pacified" gnomes and halflings. Dwarves were also around, but they kept to themselves. Malleon the Reaver got his nickname for a reason, and he certainly fills the role of marauding CE monster perfectly.

Playing during the Age of Giants or the early Age of Mortals (when the Dhakaani empire was at its peak, Orcs were still savages but they would be trained in the druidic ways as the first Gatekeepers, and humans were pretty much absent) could work. Ideally, you could rework Eberron so that there's a pivotal point that changed the world forever - perhaps the Orcs were trained as Gatekeepers so early, the Dhakaani Empire was at full power when the humans arrived, and Galifar could never create his empire, or the Giants weren't decimated in their war against the Quori invaders and thus the Elves still remain as their slaves...something that makes the "savage" races far more civilized, while the "civilized" races not that much.

A good way to handle it would be creating an alternate version of Eberron, where the Giants are trying to reclaim their lost power, while the Dhakaani Empire never toppled. Humans (descendants of Galifar) claimed the eastern portion of Khorvaire, but never managed to go any further. Humans are forced to deal with the races at the middle (the tribal Talenta halflings and the marauding Valenar elves) to create a unified force against the Goblinoid empire, which may now be tethering on a brink, only supported by their Orc allies (who are more worried about keeping the Daelkyr shut), the Shifters (who may have undergone a very heavy alteration, and are now goblinoids descending from lycanthrope stock, but still suffered a purge because of fear), the Silver Flame is now a minor Goblinoid faith that is gaining adepts quickly amongst Goblins and Orcs (in part because the wife of a Llesh Haruuc converted, and her husband allowed the faith to expand), and the only reason Humans are gaining ground is because the Dragonmarks manifested on them, but the Dragonmarks have no House support. It'd still be homebrew, it'd still have a very strong Eberron flavor, but it'd change the rules in favor of the "monstrous" races.

[Pelle]

In my current running campaign I have a good party of orcs, half-orcs, goblins and hobgoblins, adventuring against the evil human suntemplar necroinquisitors. In my setting, all races are neutral by default, although cultures have different tendencies. I could expand, but there's nothing special about this though.

[The Shadowdove]

snip.

Ah I get it.

I thought it was a good guys against evil empire thing.

Op literally wants to break racial stereotypes. Like the hobbygobs become more of a structured society than an evil empire sort of dealyBob?

We've bumped into small nations like that in our games but not entire worlds. It'd be fun for the whole game setting to be wary of traditionally common/goodly races.

[JBPuffin]

suntemplar necroinquisitors

If these are what they sound like they are, I think these deserve some more description :smalltongue:.

[CaptainSarathai]

What alignment were your hobgoblins? I'm my world I'd like them to be good because a friends lawful good hobgoblin cleric holds a special place in my heart.

Lawful Anything.
Much like Humans, they ranged from Good to Evil, the society itself was Lawful Neutral. There were even a few Chaotic Hobgoblins, Good and Evil.
That was the "big reveal" for the players initially - the Hobgoblins weren't intrinsically evil. Like I said, based on Romans; as long as you paid your tithes to the Empire, they would let you keep your gods or even adopt your gods into their pantheon, they'd share their technology and society with you, and you could keep most of your own culture. For every fleeing, panicked refugee, there were also people telling the rebels to "just submit, it's better on the other side."

The danger though, if you want your party to fight against this big and expanding empire - is making sure they have a reason to fight them. A few of my players actually took the side of "their stuff is better, join them!" before I worked in a way to swing them back toward opposing the Hobbies. Of course, the easiest way to do this is simply to reveal that the Hobgoblins are Lawful Evil, but there are also other ways of dealing with this. For example, make the Hobgoblins 'Lawful' concept relate to fighting for the greater-good or greater benefit of all, and sometimes that means that certain groups or people will be left to die. Then make that group your players. Something like the Hobgoblin expansion means the death of the "Old Gods" or something, and your players derive their power from that source, so if the whole realm decides to ally with the Hobbies, your players go back to being normal peasants. They won't like that much, probably. The whole "Adventuring Guild" probably won't like that much, so you have this mead-hall full of warrior-heroes (who look like savages, to the Hobgoblins) who refuse to surrender because it means the end of their way of life.

[Sariel Vailo]

I ran a drow civil war the under elves and the moon elves fight. Under elves actual drow began to get more kinky and more spider like lolth even gave her strongest priestess the ability to create the spider abominations in litters and not die. Their warriors. Gain four arms. Spider elves may be a better name.

Moon elves are dark elves who forewent lolth escaped to the surface and believe in a new and ambiguous deity. They are. Slowly losing sunlight sensitivity their skin changes to gray and silver skin with hair of silver and white. They believe in song and life. Some players of mine met the drow railroad leader he helped any who wished to escape to the surface he was named claude. A racial civil war was fun and intresting

[ZorroGames]

Flipping Good Guy stereotype creatures and Bad Guy stereotype creatures may be cool for a campaign but not breaking stereotype.

Having degrees of Law-Chaos and Good-Evil within a stock race and having that play out in a campaign on a table is closer to breaking stereotypes.

[Pelle]

If these are what they sound like they are, I think these deserve some more description :smalltongue:.

It's just a monotheistic military order (kinda inspired by the baltic Teutonic knights) worshipping the sun god, where its Inquisition faction has gotten in control and is dabbling in the taboo of necromancy...

[fbelanger]

My favorite is an lawfull evil society lead by Eladerin. Arts, flowers, nice architecture, but also cruelty, slavery.
The rebels are Drow who have freed themselves from evil and Lolth.

Hobgoblin can make perfect leader of a classic Japan samurai socitety.

Orc can be seen as WoW, more neutral and shamanistic.

But don't forget that players should have their way to make a party and go for adventures.

[Kane0]

Heh, also in my gameworld I made *sure* every nation/culture has its own good and bad sides. Some examples:

The redblood nation is a loose alliance of kingdoms and very metropolitan, the kind of place that most players would consider the 'default' for their characters. Trouble is they also feature some pretty heavy corruption and a big dose of slavery. See colonial Europe for reference.

A tribal society way south is populated only by greenbloods (it's too cold for the others) and portrayed as 'noble savage' types, but when times get tough they don't shy away from cannibalism to survive the harsh winters and have no problems with growing hallucinogenic and addictive arctic herbs to sell to outsiders.

The bluebloods have themselves a classic empire, aggressive expansionists that subjugate all in their way. However once claimed and converted the peoples within the empire are actually treated very well and often enjoy the benefits of the empire's advancements in society and technology. Overall they are actually quite civilized except for their fascination with blood sports. Think Persian or Roman empire with Bloodbowl played at the coliseum.

[Jorgo]

My best friend is starting a campaign in which humans and goblins/elves fall on the side of evil and gnomes, halflings, and dwarves are in a massive war against them.

[CaptainSarathai]

Heh, also in my gameworld I made *sure* every nation/culture has its own good and bad sides. Some examples:

YMMV, but I've found that if you have too much "gray morality" the players become a bit jaded and turn to murder-hoboism. I've run 2 different groups through my setting now, and the world has had to change around the second group.
The newer players seem to need the black/white morality, at least in regards to who they "should ally with" and who "the bbeg is". I quote those things, because this didn't phase the first group, who are a bit more veteran.
The main premise of my campaign is that it's basically Mordred returning from the dead and fracturing the Round Table (again) and tearing down Camelot (again) to rule in Arthur's stead. To this end a lot of the knights who made up the 'Council of the Round' were meant to have their own rivalries, political disputes, and so on. Players were expected to each side with different lords and so on, so that whenever Mordred showed up to break the table, the players had to pick if they'd support their lords or band together and fight as a party. Think a bit like 'Captain America: Civil War'.
The veterans handled this morality just fine. They gray blur made it easy for them to decide that it would be better to save the kingdom and let their lords live or die as they pleased, so that the players would be free to rebuild the realm with true equality and justice for all, blah blah. It worked.
For the second group, the newer players - it hasn't worked quite so well. Firstly, they weren't as interested in the complexities of the setting, which is fine, it happens. It's a risk that we all take as DMs - I didn't want to give them "homework" explaining all the minute political actions in the realm. When they all sort of came together to pick their first alliances, they seemed a bit put off to find out that nobody in the setting was as squeaky-clean-heroic as they had expected. I could see the gears turn, churn, and then stall and die. They didn't want to side with someone who might be evil, and they didn't know who they could trust, so they chose to isolate themselves and not take any lord at all. That's all well and good, but they were still searching for a quest-giver. Someone had to be good, they "just knew it", and they wouldn't rest until they'd found a noble soul to give them quests.
----

If you make the players "feel bad" for killing Orcs, then they're going to not want to kill Orcs. But more importantly, they're going to want to know what they can kill without guilt. They probably expect it. D&D is a game about combat after all, shouldn't they be able to kill stuff and feel good afterward? Why do you have to kill their buzz? etc, etc.
It's the same reason that I will replay 'SW: Battlefront' all day long - the enemy is faceless, obviously evil, and I can murder stormtroopers by the hundreds. They're paper-people, as Drax the Destroyer would say. But I can't play 'Spec Ops: The Line' after the first time - when you use phosphorous against civilians, have to execute a criminal, and are turning your guns against fellow American soldiers it gets real grim real fast. It's a more realistic, impactful portrayal of war, less desensitizing and more empathetic in your relation to the enemy - but it's not a lighthearted time-killer like SW:BF. Sometimes, your D&D group would prefer to just kill time and have fun critting Orcs.

[Asmotherion]

This is both a brilliant idea, and a campain I'd love to play in. I mean, if you go for it, I'd love to have a copy of the details of your setting.

I'd also indclude humans as an evil race, just to add more spectum to the complete "braking the stereotype" thing.


Ofcource, I imagine it as reprecenting the norm (a Lawfull evil society) but exceptions existing.

[Provo]

I have never liked that Elves are the intelligent race.

Instead I like to make a race of cephalopod people. Think mind flayers (Illithid), but without the Lovecraftian associations. They build costal cities for trade and such, but their aquatic nature isolates them enough to have advances in technology/magic/infrastructure/etc. that the rest of the races lack.

It doesn't fit neatly into Kane0s awesome framework though.

[Ravinsild]

Man not one mention of Dragonborn or Tieflings I am surprised. Those are in the PHB too lol

[ZorroGames]

Man not one mention of Dragonborn or Tieflings I am surprised. Those are in the PHB too lol

So far my experience is that the players using either of these have been few and far between.

"Minor races in gameplay" in the sense of less often than gnomes and halflings.

[Ravinsild]

So far my experience is that the players using either of these have been few and far between.

"Minor races in gameplay" in the sense of less often than gnomes and halflings.

If I weren't playtesting my Gnoll Blackguard to see if it's actually balanced and not underpowered or overpowered I'd be a Dragonborn Blackguard. Figured I could knock two birds out with one stone though testing both my Homebrews together.

[Footman]

I had another Idea concerning this Thread. How about leaving the Races, how they are, but changing the things on the Good/Evil Axis. Lets say the Forces of Good go Full blown Knight Templer and unite. All the "good" Races now try to take the World over as one gigantic Good Empire, and they want to destroy all Evil. They slaughter all "Evil" creatures. Since they don't have the time to check every creatures Alignment they just Butcher, all who don't commit themselves wholheartendly to the Good Cause.

This upsets the Comsmic Balance. A final Victory of Lawful Good would Destroy the World, because they would take the "Lawful Good" Alignment to its exteraggated extrem. Meaning everyone who does even something minorly Evil is subjected to Draconic Punishment. Even though they follow the Lawful Good code to the letter (not the intend) they don't even lose any of their Powers they might have from their Deities. (Without Destruction there can't be creation. Without Evil to Compare to Good looses Scale.)

Now all the Neutral and Evil Forces have desperatly banded together to stop the Forces of Good from Destroying the World. This would of course include all of the Evil (and Neutral) Monster Races. Storywise they would be the "Good" Guys since they want to Stop the World from total Destruction. The Forces of Good are of course to blind to see this.

Also i forgot something. You want to break a Race sterotype? Enter Sandwich the Drow Paladin.
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Sandwich_Stoutaxe

[Asmotherion]

Man not one mention of Dragonborn or Tieflings I am surprised. Those are in the PHB too lol

My understanding is that they are supposed to be a rare few specimens of each, hardly a race, more like some linages of Tieflings (most hidden among humans), and some remote villages of each race.

Chromatic Dragonborn in this campain can be Elitists in this Society. Followers of Tiamat (Major deity in this campain) and believed to be her representents on the earth. Metalic Dragonborn on the other hand could be followers of Bahamut, whose worship is officially banished, and live in seclusion from society. It could even be extended to the colour of the scales of a Dragonborn changing depending to his faith, and Metalic dragonborn being procecuted on sight.

Tieflings on the other Hand, can be devoted to Asmodeous, an other Major Deity in this Campain. A few rebelious ones might have turned their backes to him and worship demon lords (Lollth for example) or complitelly forsaken evil, and try to atone for their devilish bloodline, by following a Good deity in secret. If such blasphemy is found out by their own, they will be sacrifised to their patron deity for punishment and to purge their sins.

So, here is a bit of make-up lore out of the top of my head for you. I hope it made you happy? :P

[Ravinsild]

My understanding is that they are supposed to be a rare few specimens of each, hardly a race, more like some linages of Tieflings (most hidden among humans), and some remote villages of each race.

Chromatic Dragonborn in this campain can be Elitists in this Society. Followers of Tiamat (Major deity in this campain) and believed to be her representents on the earth. Metalic Dragonborn on the other hand could be followers of Bahamut, whose worship is officially banished, and live in seclusion from society. It could even be extended to the colour of the scales of a Dragonborn changing depending to his faith, and Metalic dragonborn being procecuted on sight.

Tieflings on the other Hand, can be devoted to Asmodeous, an other Major Deity in this Campain. A few rebelious ones might have turned their backes to him and worship demon lords (Lollth for example) or complitelly forsaken evil, and try to atone for their devilish bloodline, by following a Good deity in secret. If such blasphemy is found out by their own, they will be sacrifised to their patron deity for punishment and to purge their sins.

So, here is a bit of make-up lore out of the top of my head for you. I hope it made you happy? :P

Well if that's the case why are they in the PHB instead of Volo's? Something else could have been in Volo's and taken something from there and put it in the PHB or something idk.

Just found it odd two of the first races officially printed in 5e haven't been mentioned at all in this whole thread til now.

[JBPuffin]

I've got both in the thing I'm working on - less reimagining, more altering some details, but they're close to the top of the list as PHB material. I'll probably put up what I have later today.

As for why? Both are almost always outsiders, so it's hard to imagine them as anything but. That and they're less iconic than goblins and orcs and elves will ever be.

[Easy_Lee]

The bigger stereotype with standard fantasy settings, D&D included, is that good and evil are fixed. Here are the good guys, here are the bad guys. If you make the good guys bad and the bad guys good, you haven't really innovated, just switched who's in which role. Besides, Blizzard did that with Thrall in Warcraft already.

This would be like if we suddenly decided beautiful people are ugly and ugly people are beautiful. We haven't changed anything, we've just swapped which group is currently in vogue.

If you have the good guys do something bad and the bad guys rushing to stop them, then your good guys are just the bad guys now and the bad guys are now the good guys. But there are still good guys and bad guys. The players didn't get to choose who they thought were the good guys.

You might guess from the bolded part what I recommend.

[Provo]

As for why? Both are almost always outsiders, so it's hard to imagine them as anything but. That and they're less iconic than goblins and orcs and elves will ever be.

Isn't the exact point of the thread to reimagine their roles though? How could these races have their roles reversed in an interesting way?

I like the idea of a civilization of tieflings (devil-touched). They would not be openly evil. Rather they would have an efficient, industrious society, and they would strive for mutually beneficial relations with their allies. However it would all be deceptive charm.

They would not care for individual rights. The law would harshly punish all but the nobles. And they would be very effective at ruining their enemies without ever resorting to war.

[JBPuffin]

Isn't the exact point of the thread to reimagine their roles though? How could these races have their roles reversed in an interesting way?

I like the idea of a civilization of tieflings (devil-touched). They would not be openly evil. Rather they would have an efficient, industrious society, and they would strive for mutually beneficial relations with their allies. However it would all be deceptive charm.

They would not care for individual rights. The law would harshly punish all but the nobles. And they would be very effective at ruining their enemies without ever resorting to war.

They asked for an explanation, and I provided. Doesn't mean they don't deserve more, but considering WotC's original descriptions and optimizers' reactions, the avoidance isn't entirely causeless. I'll also admit to not being a fan of "tieflings are evil" (especially since it is the archetype, including the deception bits) - the last world I truly built, they were split between the "noble necromancy" kingdom and semi-feudal, semi-democratic meritocracy and were basically stuck with their traits as a result of the family curse (4e fluff I latched onto almost instantly and still use).

Now's a good opportunity to post what I have thus far of my re-rendering. Might make a world-building thread once I move things off the ground, as I probably will be tinkering with some of the racial traits and/or look for other people's versions that I like, and I will definitely want some plot development/map design help.
I’m not going to invert everything; demons are still evil, angels still good, the non-racial deities alignments’ left the same. However, I’m substantially altering the backstories for the races with PHB/EE/Volo’s descriptions and a couple of my favorite “true monsters,” and I make no guarantees regarding the planetouched races sticking to their progenitors' alignments. Some RAW interpretations are nullified, as are certain other restrictions and ideas, all of which are embodied in the house rules I’ll be using for my next campaign behind the screen.

Dwarves: At one time, the dwarves followed the guidance of their Ancestors, praising skill and craftsmanship rather than a god. That ended when Moradin, a famed silver-tongued blacksmith and gold-obsessed miser, ascended to godhood by means scholars still do not entirely understand. He found many willing to accept his Endorsements - Wealth and Power Justify Anything, Non-dwarves Deserve Nothing, and The Mountains Belong to the Children of Stone. With time, most came to embody the greedy, manipulative, ruthless archetype their new god encouraged, leading them down paths darker than the caverns they called home...
Hill vs Mountain - The difference between the two is about skill set rather than true racial distinction; you’ll find them mixed together in enclaves, unlike elves and their infighting...
Azer - Technically not dwarves, but their appearance leads me to put them here. The dwarves have actually managed to enslave quite a few of them, keeping open portals to the Plane of Fire where they can to have steady supplies of forge-workers. Substantial populations of azer live in and around the City of Brass alongside the efreet, working in unison to govern the Plane of Fire’s sentient denizens and attempt to keep dwarven incursions out when they can.
Duergar - When Moradin became the dominant god of the dwarven people, those who served the Ancestors found themselves in a rather dangerous position: abandon the true faith to save themselves, or escape into the bowels of the earth to keep the faith alive. Those who chose the latter founded Laduguer, an Underdark citadel which eventually led to the pale duergar’s racial distinction. They’ve forsaken their former kin, watching with sadness as their greed consumes both their souls and the mountains they once loved so dearly, but have not abandoned the rest of the world to its fate yet. Any dwarvish beings welcome on the service are either duergar or outcasts who came to realize just how insular their people had become (in my case, my Alehaus Dwarf subrace)...

Elves: Once, all elves lived in the Underdark as drow, united under the banner of the Spider Queen. Lolth gave them many gifts - whispered words of encouragement and guidance, magic to help defend themselves against the occasional deep-realm dangers, and eyes to pierce the darkness that enshrouded them. Corellon, Lolth’s brother, and the Moon Queen Sehanine conspired to steal the elves from their goddess, and they succeeded through a mix of impersonation and temptation. The drow remained true, standing by their Queen despite the betrayal of their kin; the high elves went to Corellon, locking themselves away in ivory towers and cities above the earth to master the magics required to dominate all they could see; and the wood elves took to Sehanine’s teachings, adopting a nomadic raiding culture who followed the cycles of the moon for direction. This schism had many costs - lives, knowledge, family - but the greatest may have been to Lolth herself: she lost her ability to manifest in the Material Plane, unlike her siblings, which means that she’s forced to communicate through priests and signs.
High vs Wood - High and wood elves hate each other as much as they each hate drow. High elves find wood elves primitive, superstitious, and altogether undeserving of their elven bloodline; wood elves see high elves as pompous shut-ins who know nothing of the earth or the real world. They fight each other at every turn - sabotage, all-out war, misdirection, you name it. Each hopes to end up the only variant of elf remaining, although how successful either will be is a question for the ages.
Drow - After their Queen bore a terrible burden for her people, the drow sought aid from the duergar, who’d had a similar experience with Moradin’s ascension. They either live among their dwarvish brothers-in-the-Underdark or in smaller temple-oriented sites led by ambassador-priestesses. Surface-living drow belong to such envoy communities, trading with the safer races and curbing the threats from their kindred.
Half-Elves - Half-elves are an anomaly, the result of two types of elf having a child. This usually are the result of some wartime crime or otherwise strained relationship, leading most to learn how to leverage their natural gifts simply to survive. Most find refuge among the drow and act as emissaries farther afield due to their lack of sunlight sensitivity, and many half-elven adventurers were originally diplomats who, for one reason or another, did not return to their home.

Halflings: No one knows how long halflings have walked the earth; before the elves left the Underdark and the dwarves sunk into the mountains, the Wee Folk lived in the plains and hills, their communities hidden in sod and soil. Halflings are considered by most to be pests - they steal vital supplies from the land, raid passing caravans, and make double-edged bargains with trespassers which end with either infamy or injury. What’s more, halflings breed and swarm like rodents. A flat grassland could hide dozens, if not hundreds, of secret halfling homes filled with families of kleptomaniacal highwaymen eager to entrap those unfortunate enough to do them the disservice of their presence.
Lightfoot vs Stout - Similar to the dwarves, halfling subraces are mostly a matter of skill set; some are diplomatic and light on their feet, others are hardy and can hold ale properly.
Humans: As usual, humans run the gamut of good and evil, lawful and chaotic. It’s important to note that no human empire exists; in fact, though the humans have tried several times to establish a place for themselves, but simply cannot muster the manpower required to hold any given region for a significant period of time. Most chalk this up to their lack of strong shared identity, but it could also be that most simply don’t care - the goblins will gladly share food and land with them. Why would you want to ruin that?

Dragonborn: The children of humanoids and polymorphed dragons, dragonborn receive the blessings of both sides of their parentage - breath weapons and scales from the dragons, and their general shape and community-mindedness from the humanoids. Dragonborn also breed true and sire more dragonborn with any humanoid, leading most cities to set aside at least some place for them in the grand scheme. There are rumors of a dragonborn empire somewhere far away, though its direction varies greatly depending on who you ask.
Chromatic vs Metallic - The archetypal color coding still applies: chromatics lean towards evil, metallics towards good, and this does extend to their children. However, once you get passed the first generation (dragon-humanoid pairing), scale color \= alignment whatsoever. It helps that most second generation dragonborn and beyond do not have solid coloration, but have a gradient or sheen with at least a second color involved.

Orcs: Gruumsh asks very little of his children - Protect Those Who Call You Friend, Defeat Those Who Call You Foe, and Trouble the High Elves at Every Turn. The orcs, for the most part, are wanderers, leading caravans from town to town in order to trade and offer other services. When an orc reaches maturity, the caravan sets them down at the next town they come to, allowing them to experience some of the local culture and learn skills the caravan needs. Some of these orcs never leave, settling into their new home and likely starting a family. Orcs are probably the most value-driven culturally, believing that a moral existence will allow them to enter Gruumsh’s Realm and join the Eternal War between the One-Eyed God and the Eyebiter Corellon, whose children seek nothing less but the destruction of the world as it exists now.
Half-Orcs - Half-orcs are full-bred orcs; the term stems from the Orcish word hoph, or “vanguard,” referring to their greater resilience and patience. These are the smaller orcs, those better suited for city life than their wilder, larger brethren.

Gnomes: Where halflings are pests but seemingly mortal, gnomes are alien, Feywild natives transplanted by the portals which occasionally roam across that plane. Gnomes have no concept of impulse control; they do what they want, to whom they want, as soon as they want to, and whine incessantly when they don’t have their way. This means most gnomes are loners, guided by nothing but their own ambitions and only cooperating when their desires intersect. Once in a blue moon, however, a gnome rises up with a desire that all the gnomes are drawn to - the last time this happened, it led to the dissolution of the De’Kari Empire (or at least was a major factor), forcing the hobgoblins to start again.
Forest vs Rock - Forest gnomes have desires better fulfilled in the Feywild and are adapted for life there. Rock gnomes, on the other hand, have desires the Prime Material can satisfy just fine, perhaps even more efficiently than the Feywild could have. This leads most to assume that rock gnomes are actually naturalized gnomes, born in the Prime from gnomish parents, but the truth is either subrace could be naturalized Prime denizens or not. It’s all a matter of focus, although there are slight tendencies based on where they were born.
Deep Gnomes - The deep gnomes are no less impulsive and childish, but their dreams require the Underdark to fulfill; where their cousins walk the outer shell, they dive deep below the surface, gathering stone and steel and other such things to...do whatever it is they’re doing. It’s suspected that the svirfneblin actually split from the other gnomes when one of their Charismatics led a group into the darkness on an atypical impulse.

Tieflings: It’s said that Rome didn’t fall in a day, and the Sar’Gonxi Empire certainly didn’t; the gnomish siege of the capital lasted for several months, elven saboteurs had spent decades orchestrating the collapse of their Council, and a particularly ambitious family of hobgoblins mistakenly bound themselves to the service of a demon who wanted the Empire destroyed. These hobgoblins were transformed into the first tieflings, and despite their initial slavery, they found a way to free their descendants from the contract at the cost of keeping the new form. Some of the original tieflings still survive, compelled to serve their demon lord; the rest are their descendants, with the fourth generation coming of age now and reintegrating themselves into hobgoblin society. There’s some tension with those who know what happened, but for the most part the tieflings have rejoined their society and are helping to construct a new empire, beginning with reclaiming the gnomish stronghold (held by the Charismatic who led the siege) of Sargon.

Aarakocra: Not much needs to be said about the bird-men - a long time ago, the Wind Dukes cast them out for betraying them to the gargoyles (not what happened, but the Dukes have never been all there to begin with), and they’ve split off into two groups. One faction wants nothing to do with the Dukes and believes the best course of action is to settle in the Material; the other wants vengeance for their unjust banishment, typically using the gargoyles their former masters thought were their allies. Convincing the gargoyles is another story altogether, however...

Goliaths: The dwarves love to talk about how they’re the children of stone, the mountains’ firstborn. What a load of horse****. Every goliath remembers the stone they awoke from, and each carries a portion of that stone to remember their homeland despite their constant wandering. No place can support a full goliath clan for long, and despite their best intentions, they’ve earned a reputation as grey-skinned humanoid locusts, destroying ecosystems as they pass through. This means most peoples don’t want to deal with them - the hobgoblins allow them to pass along their roads with some restriction, but that’s about the best one can expect. Despite this, a solitary goliath (oxymoronic as that may be) is a valuable soldier and welcomed by the less xenophobic easily; after all, who couldn’t use a little more muscle?

Genasi: Despite their elemental origins as a race, genasi have made themselves at home in the Material quite easily, forming small communities near suitable places. Water genasi live on the coasts, helping fishermen and sahuagin deal with the tritons and their imperial pursuits; fire genasi walk the deserts, guiding caravans and desperate nomads to oases and settlements in exchange for conversation and trinkets; earth genasi safeguard mining towns and mountainous regions from the ever-present dwarves; and air genasi have strong presences in cities, entertaining masses and serving the wealthy with their winds. Most genasi are personable, welcoming, and eager to serve. After all, some of the world’s most dangerous villains have been genasi...

Aasimar: Not every angel deserves their wings - aasimar are those who have either lost them or their children, imbued with divine power and ostensibly symbols of justice and righteousness right until one steals your heart and coin-purse. Many lost their place in the celestial realms for minor infractions - a rare few deserve a worse fate, but received mercy - and no small fraction use this as justification for a face-heel turn, turning their backs on all that is just to enjoy mortality while they can. Others see this as a testing ground or a new sort of assignment, going out of their way to be merciful, inspiring, and all-in-all paragons of virtue. Not being able to tell which is which on a glance means they’re much more similar to humans than they’d like to believe, considering how most are convinced of humanity’s frailty.

Firbolgs: Few doubt the firbolgs mean well, but their methods of protecting nature leave something to be desired. Limiting hunters to specific groves and raising dangerous forest animals as guardians makes sense, to a point, but forcing travelers to stick to main roads, denying them foraging fodder to ensure they move forward with all possible haste, and occasionally attacking to speed a caravan along? Gods alive, show some tact. Bloody fey-goblins don’t seem to understand proper diplomacy.

Kenku: The raven people are an unfortunate lot. Gifted with great talent and acumen, they were long ago robbed of their voices by the vile high elves who granted them sapience. Forced to resort to mimicry to communicate, the kenku are incredibly inventive and quick studies, perfectly duplicating results with unnatural ease. Of course, the elves designed them to be that way, but faced the consequences when one rebelled against its captors...Small communities form around former elven settlements, picking them clean before moving to other folks’ lands in search of new experiences and potential cures for their grave misfortune.

[Kane0]

YMMV, but I've found that if you have too much "gray morality" the players become a bit jaded and turn to murder-hoboism.

I did so at the group's behest actually. They really enjoy a mix of straightforward killing/combat like D&D does well with a deep and intricate backdrop that allows them to engage as much or as little in it as they please, as the situation and their mood dictates. They call it 'the bioshock effect' and usually cite Half-Life 1 as their prime example.


Man not one mention of Dragonborn or Tieflings I am surprised. Those are in the PHB too lol

Hey now, I totally included them!

[napoleon_in_rag]

If you did try this how would you go about it? What races would have what role?

Elves: Elves were created first and they believe the god's got it right the first time. Their goal is to eliminate the "lesser" races from the world to purify mother earth. (Think Nazis with pointy ears).

Gnomes: The Gnomes became sick of being bullied by the other races and have devoted their inventive skills into developing Weapons of Mass Destruction to deter the other races. These WMDs require the entire Gnomish economy to be focused into large "Manhattan Projects" causing poverty among its people. Every now and then they test a WMD on another race's city. (Think North Korea)

Halflings: The entire halfling race has become addicted to "Long Bottom Leaf". As long as they have enough leaf, they are Tolkien's rotund, jolly Hobbits. But when they run out, they become murderous, cannibalistic maniacs who will do anything to get more leaf. During a drought, a rumor like "I heard the humans have leaf" will cause a horde of pillaging, tweaked out halflings to cross into human lands to kill anyone who doesn't give them leaf. (Think Frodo and Sam on Bath Salts).

Dwarves: The dwarves are fanatical followers of the god "Reorx" and feel that the best way to commune with him is by forging an metal object. Unfortunately, they believe the fires must be fed by throwing live, intelligent (non dwarvish) races into the furnaces. Dwarvish war parties frequently venture to the surface to gather sacrifices who are taken deep below the earth and never heard from again. (Think short, hairy Aztecs)

Orcs: About 500 years ago, the Orcs decided to build a "Stairway to Heaven". Led by their dread Queen "Pagge-Un Plann" (An orc who thinks all that glitters is gold) the orcs are building a tower as high as they can. They keep building it until it falls down and then they start over again. This work requires a large slave work force. (Think Egyptians who build towers instead of pyramids)

Hobgoblins: Hobgoblins believe it is their job to bring order to a chaotic world. (Think Rome, pax romana).

Humans: Humans have been invaded and conquered so much that no human empire or kingdom still exists. They welcome Hobgoblin rule because, even though the Hobgoblins are cruel, they do provide protection from the elves, gnomes, dwarves, halflings, and orcs.

[JackPhoenix]

Well if that's the case why are they in the PHB instead of Volo's? Something else could have been in Volo's and taken something from there and put it in the PHB or something idk.

Just found it odd two of the first races officially printed in 5e haven't been mentioned at all in this whole thread til now.

Because 4e is a thing, and it came up with "let's have dragon and demon race in PHB to lure in edgelords and 12 years old".

[Ravinsild]

Because 4e is a thing, and it came up with "let's have dragon and demon race in PHB to lure in edgelords and 12 years old".

4e is the best thing that ever happened to D&D and I have no idea why nobody likes it but me.

[JBPuffin]

4e is the best thing that ever happened to D&D and I have no idea why nobody likes it but me.

I came into DnD with 4e (Penny Arcade podcasts and Character Builder helped with that), and I liked it; my groups play 5e, and since it's basically 3.5 redux 4e's even more the odd man out. I'll agree with the notion that DB and tiefs were introduced to draw in new players, although eladrin were that, too, in my eyes (and devas, and shifters, and genasi, and...) I liked all of it, though, so \_('-')_/. Trying to retain 4e players was probably the motivation for DB and tiefs returning in the PHB, along with the return of goliaths in EE, but WotC could genuinely like them (and accidentally malign them statistically).