How to scribe in a spellbook without gold.

[Pink]

Okay, here's the situation. I'm planning on running the World's largest dungeon. I'm using the suggestion in the book that the wizard starts off with his complete spell book at level 1, so things make a bit more sense. However, the problem of scribing new spells comes to attention. Spending 100 gp per page on rare inks and such when you're isolated in a dungeon is even worse than just amazingly waking up one night knowing two more spells. So, Is there something else I can do? Should I just forgo the cost? Is there some way to make them pay some sort've cost to scribe each new spell they come upon in scrolls and enemy spellbooks?

[Karsh]

You could either A. let the characters find scrolls/stashes of magical inks and reagents as treasure from time to time, or B. heartily discourage Wizards.

[Pink]

I suppose the stash of inks things could work, But I don't think discouraging wizards is the answer I'm looking for. I'm looking for some alternate method that isn't just giving them scribing for free whenever they make a succesful check upon finding a scroll or spellbook.

[factotum]

Why can't the wizard carry the ink with him? It may be expensive, but that doesn't mean it's particularly bulky or heavy.

[Pink]

Why can't the wizard carry the ink with him? It may be expensive, but that doesn't mean it's particularly bulky or heavy.

Because World's largest Dungeon is one where they enter at level 1 and leave at level 20. A level 1 wizard most likely can't even afford the ink needed to scribe one page of a spellbook.

[TheOOB]

Wizards require cash, access to magical resources, and downtime to fill their spellbook. If the campaign is going to be short on one of those things, play a sorcerer. Wizards are the most powerful core class, and taking away the cost for scribing in a spell book only makes them more powerful.

[Karsh]

Finding inks as treasure, then.

Otherwise, maybe there's an imp merchant or something who follows them around who they can periodically pay to scribe spells for them.

[BardicDuelist]

Have all wizards take collegiate wizard.

[excrtd]

A Blessed Book negates the cost of writing spells in it. It does however have a value of 12,500 gp.

[XBobbis]

I've played a bit of the module (up to about level 8, then we got bored, the DM is recommended to give about 1/5 of the normal exp for monsters to keep them at the appropriate level), and don't play a wizard.

In those 8 levels (over a year of one to two 5+ hour sessions a week) we found 4 scrolls. There's even a comment in the front of the book saying to the DM "Highly Discourage Wizards and Druids. Druids can't get spells because they can't commune with nature in the dungeon, and wizards won't get many spells beyond what is in their spellbook."

[Jack Mann]

Give the wizard collegiate wizard, maybe even for free if scrolls are really going to be that rare. And possibly encourage the elven generalist substitution level.

[PlatinumJester]

Maybe you could use Craft Alchemy to make your own inks for cheap.

[Nu]

You could have them start out with a Blessed Book with up to 100 pages worth of spells pre-scribed...that doesn't cost money to inscribe spells into, correct?

[silvadel]

Try it with cook's arcana evolved races/classes.

[prufock]

I'll echo the suggestion that you include inks and other materials in the treasure every now and then. Otherwise, explain to the players that there really won't be much opportunity to scribe new spells, and suggest that anyone thinking of playing an arcane caster play a sorceror (or warlock, or some other similar class).

I've been thinking of running the WLD for a while now, too. I keep putting it off because
1) We still have to finish our ongoing D&D campaign.
2) We're also playing a Star Wars campaign.
and 3) We're starting a Mutants and Masterminds campaign in the fall.
It's just too much to keep up on, unless I can somehow turn DMing into a source of income.
Someday....

[Arbitrarity]

Hmmm... this is cheesy and questionable, but try duplicating spell pages using secret page. Forget this "Ink" junk, use "real" pages. Reasoning for this is that secret page says
Secret page alters the contents of a page so that they appear to be something entirely different. The text of a spell can be changed to show even another spell.

Collegiate wizard, elven generalist both get increases in spells/level, and at the very least, secret page doubles effective pages, for 5 spells/level, with a maximum holding capacity of 10/level.

[Citizen Joe]

I have to assume that there are some sort of shops in WLD. Everyone needs supplies, not just inks. If there is no access to the outside world, gold becomes meaningless as well (outside using it for spell components).

[Raolin_Fenix]

Step One: Don't play World's Largest Dungeon. I tried. It was horrible. Left the entire party on the verge of tears. Trust me, not worth it.

If you insist on playing it, though, the obvious answer is Boccob's Blessed Book and two levels of the Geomancer PrC.

[Bagera]

You could just have the ink be normal ink with powdered gold mixed in, in an arcane ritual or something.

[Aquillion]

There are entire civilizations in the dungeon. The wizard can buy inks from them at first, and find some as treasure. Give a Blessed Book as treasure at the earliest opportunity, and the problem will be solved.

Or, seriously, just look the other way as the wizard magically transmutes the necessary amount of gold to ink. That's what everyone does with that and most generic expensive spell components anyway. It's silly but will keep your game running smoothly without interfering with balance, and that's what really matters.

[Belteshazzar]

Craft your own inks from magical and arcane ingredients harvested from your enemies and the environment.

[Pink]

To all the people advising me not to run the WLD: Your comments are ignored, partly cause I think I can run it and keep it fun, and hopefully my players can keep it fun too, and because this is not the topic at hand.

To all the people advising the Boccob's Blessed Book: Think about it. This is a 12,500 gp item. At level 1. Do you honestly think I'm gonna get away with that without the other players complaining?

To all the people advising crafting: I think I might just go with this. There is certainly the proper elements and ingredients for this to work, and because of the need to have craft ranks and rolls, It's not completely without a cost.

I also like the secret page idea for a wizard to change spells.

Thanks so far for the good suggestions.

[Jasdoif]

If you insist on playing it, though, the obvious answer is Boccob's Blessed Book and two levels of the Geomancer PrC.I'm pretty sure you mean the Geometer PrC. But yes, that's a great idea.


To all the people advising crafting: I think I might just go with this. There is certainly the proper elements and ingredients for this to work, and because of the need to have craft ranks and rolls, It's not completely without a cost.Fabricate might also come into play here.


But since we're on the subject of ink, there's also the issue of the starting spellbook filling up. It only has 100 pages, after. Blank spellbooks are expensive because they've been treated to withstand adverse conditions better then normal writing material (Complete Arcane mentions "durability and protection against fire, mold, water, parasites, staining and other hazards").

[Pink]

But since we're on the subject of ink, there's also the issue of the starting spellbook filling up. It only has 100 pages, after. Blank spellbooks are expensive because they've been treated to withstand adverse conditions better then normal writing material (Complete Arcane mentions "durability and protection against fire, mold, water, parasites, staining and other hazards").

I don't think spellbooks will be such a problem. They'll start with one that should last them at least as long until they can find another. It's not as if the dungeon is empty of wizard enemies. loot a spellbook, use the blank pages for yourself.

[Jasdoif]

I don't think spellbooks will be such a problem. They'll start with one that should last them at least as long until they can find another. It's not as if the dungeon is empty of wizard enemies. loot a spellbook, use the blank pages for yourself.Oh, so there are wizard enemies. Sorry, from the posts here I was under the impression that spellbook-wielding foes were rather rare. With this being the case though, I have some more suggestions.


First of all, erase (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/erase.htm). Transform that captured spellbook into a blank spellbook! Once you've learned all the spells in it, of course.

Secondly, Complete Arcane has rules for "mastering a foreign spellbook", allowing you to prepare spells contained in it, without having to scribe them into your own spellbook and without needing to make a Spellcraft check for each spell. The DC for mastering can be a little steep though, 25 + the highest spell level contained in it.

In a similar vein, if you're willing to waive the part about needing a spell scribed in your own book to prepare it from a "borrowed" spellbook, your wizard could learn and prepare a new spell from the captured spellbook, without needing to have blank space to copy it into your own.


And solely because this just occurred to me, for adding more spells known...wands and staffs. Wizards get Scribe Scroll at first level, and you can use spell trigger items to provide spells for creating magic items. Use the wand/staff to scribe a scroll with the spell, then learn the spell from the scroll.

[Clove]

I see people recommending that the Wizard find ink along the way, and some saying to start the wizard with Boccob's Blessed Book.

You could let the wizard have some difficulty early on with finding ink. You could even have little sub-adventures about it. "The wizard needs more ink again!" When this gets boring or tedious or not fun then you can have the party stumble onto a Boccob's Blessed Book as random treasure.

I think the whole party will be happy to find it then! :smallbiggrin:

[Citizen Joe]

I'm intrigued a bit about the WLD, not so much in running a game with it, but more about extrapolating it into a logical ecosystem/culture. Again, I can only presume that it is a closed ecosystem, or the whole ink problem would be null. You'd just leave and return with your inks. Or better yet, scribe and learn spells outside the dungeon.

[Raolin_Fenix]

I'm pretty sure you mean the Geometer PrC.

Yeah, I always get those confused. Wretched similar names and their impact on my noobishness....

[Tor the Fallen]

Otherwise, maybe there's an imp merchant or something who follows them around who they can periodically pay to scribe spells for them.

Or a fellow in a big overcoat....

"What are you looking for?"
"What are ya sellin'?"
"I'll buy it at a high price!"

[Habeed]

What about a joke solution? A new houseruled spell, "Summon Apu". Apu (a genie who runs the "quick-E-Shop") appears, and he will have all basic consummable supplies.

[Droodle]

One would think that any wizard foes you run into would have inks and whatnot on their own persons along with their spellbook(s). I'd consider it a given, actually. THe inks, and even extra spellbooks, could just be looted from enemy spellcasters.

[Leon]

Take a Squid as a pet for a ink supply

[Ashtar]

As previously mentioned, allow the wizard to learn and use spells from captured spellbooks. This solves most of the problems.
The inks can be found as part of the common loot on enemy wizards. Or allow the wizard to make up his own ink using mineral pigments using alchemy (just like the egyptians, who found ways to make mineral based inks/paints that have lasted over 4000 years) .

[Galdor Miriel]

Don't do anything.

If your players know that they are in a dungeon from 1 through 20, let them decide what class to play and how to get around the problems associated with that choice.

Personally, I would enjoy the challenge of playing a wizard under such circumstances, a w wizard with fewer spells and no chance to scribe scrolls. Sounds cool.

Good luck and do not listen to the nay sayers. With the right players and a big dollop of humour I am sure the worlds largest dungeon will soon be the worlds largest monster graveyard.

[Citizen Joe]

I'd still like to see a logical economy/ecology/culture within the dungeon. Maybe something like great wealth and magic being available deep in the dungeon. This gets traded for stuff at a less deep area and gold slowly filters up through the dungeon and out into the world, meanwhile various supplies get filtered back down through the dungeon into the lowest levels. People/creatures with the right connections could form small 'safe zones' or enclaves where adventurers could hole up and trade in their loot for surface goods (an inflated prices). Some NPC wizards and priests might build a magic shop where they produce scrolls and potions for adventurers, again filtering the gold out of the dungeon. The deeper you go, the more profit there is to be made, but there is also more risk. So you'll probably see thresholds where it isn't worth the extra risk, and that is where the shops will be.