The Nobles

[kpenguin]

If the nobles were loyal and had stayed with their troops along with their hired ninjas to protect Azure City, would it have made a difference?

[Yeril]

Yes 10 character limit

[kpenguin]

Yes

Care to explain?

[Yeril]

Yes, if there were 20,000 more soliders there would of been 20,000 more corpses.

[Obscura]

lolz.

Don't know, the nobles probably had the elite soldiers with them...

How many soldiers fought?

[Lupus Major]

Well, at the key parts of the battle, common soldiers would have made no difference. They would not have been able to hurt the elementals or the Death Knight, and the defense of the throne room would probably have been exactly the same, since this was the Sapphire Guard's task, and the Guard was as complete as it could be.

So, Team Evil's main goal, access to the gate, would have been accomplished just the same. But I think the city itself might have been kept. When defending a fortified position against equally strong and mundane foes (human soldiers against the hobbos), a few thousand soldiers make a world of a difference. This probably would have freed our PCs to focus on the really tough foes instead of wasting their resources on lowlevel hobbos, thus giving the city a real chance for survival.

And if you count in that the nobles probably have some highlevel bodyguards or are even highlevel themselves, these few characters with CL>10 would habe made the difference you need to keep the city. And while they would not have kept Xykon out, Redcloak might have not arrived in time to save his bony lower back.

[Yeril]

By rite of plot it would of made no difference

[Lupus Major]

No.

The noble's leaving is part of the plot, so that's no argument.

[Emperor Ing]

so, nobles were too lazy to do anything, and left as soon as the battle started. How noble of them. :smallyuk:

[I'm da Rogue!]

I think it's a typical noble reaction.
(history proves so)

[DraPrime]

Most nobles aren't very "noble." And 20,000 more soldiers would just have prolonged the battle, but azure city would still have lost. Simply, the elementals would still have completely destroyed everything. The death knight would still have cause mass carnage. Xykon would still have gotten into the throne room. And poor Roy still would have died.

[Kreistor]

20000? Where on earth do you get that number? Household guards number in the tens and maybe hundreds, not thousands. That doesn't count the vast fleet required to move that many men! If there were 1000 household troops total, i would be incredibly surprised.

No, it wouldn't have turned the tide of battle. Their numbers are just not large enough.

[lavidor10]

The nobles seem to have taken all of Azure City's arcane casters with them. I can definitely see more Enlarge Persons making a huge difference in defending the walls.

[Ithekro]

Well it might be the difference between 1,000 soldiers and 1,000 soldiers with class levels. Not much, but more than a match for regular hobgoblins. Ninja shouldn't be able to do very much in a battle like this. More casters might help since V was holding the breach with very few troops and some clerics. But then it seems likely that all the spellcasters would be in the back and still have no effect on the battle. The extra soldiers might have delayed Redcloak a few rounds, or at least some of his army, but not all that much if the tactics don't hold up against the enemy.

[kpenguin]

Ninja shouldn't be able to do very much in a battle like this.

Hire all the ninjas to engage in a battle royale to the death. Then, send the lone survivor out on to the field. Watch the slaughter.

[Querzis]

We cant know how much of a difference it could have made since we dont know how much troops the nobles have or their levels. But dont forget that Xykon was near-death when Redcloak came to save him, simply holding that breach for 2 or 3 more rounds might have killed Xykon. And if we are really talking about 20 000 soldiers then they would have hold that breach and probably won (I doubt its 20 000 but seriously, the deserters and the lost of that breach are the reasons AC lost). Also dont forget that Shojo best wizard could teleport so he was pretty high level. If the nobles had only 4 or 5 character of that level it would have made a big difference.

The only thing we know is that the noble left because they hoped that Hinjo would be killed in the battle and they are planning to take the city back so they are either complete moron or they have a lot more firepower then you guys seems to think.


By the way, about nobles not being very noble, you do realize that Shojo, Hinjo and Soon are nobles right?

[Tirian]

The destruction of the gate and the castle were inevitable for the larger plot. The fight for the larger city would be quite different. Redcloak has MitD on his side, who can effortlessly cast Earthquake without revealing himself, so the defenses are still getting breached. On the other hand, I don't think Redcloak himself can march into town when the place is filled with ninjas.

[Yeril]

true... but one of the barons could of had..

THREE monsters in the darkness!

:mitd: :mitd: :mitd:

[Krytha]

If the nobles had a smattering of leveled characters and some spell casters, it would've been different. Numbers make a difference, but feats make even more of a difference at this scale.

[PlasticSoldier]

The nobles might have caused Azure to win if they had wizards who could cast I don't know maybe WALL OF IRON or maybe CLOUDKILL because they could have held the breach long enough for Xykon to redie and then when redcloak went into the throne he would be killed by an epic paladin.

[DraPrime]

By the way, about nobles not being very noble, you do realize that Shojo, Hinjo and Soon are nobles right?

I believe that I said MOST nobles aren't very noble. Hinjo and Shojo may be good, but most of the nobles left Azure City.

[warmachine]

As the question is about tactical analysis, not plot: yes. Azure City lost because they failed to hold the city wall breach. The aristocracy would have their own arcane and divine spellcasters and high level champions. Indeed, that some of them think they can retake the city means they have heavy firepower. Additional magic, such as Wall of Iron, would have helped reseal the breach and high level champions would counter Xykon's champions. Provided Azurite morale held, the soldiers could maintain the defences until their superior supply lines bought reinforcements.

The odds were even and Azure City merely had to hold its nerve. The departing aristocracy damaged troop morale that was already low.

As someone wrote before, the nobility are rarely noble.

[Regneva]

I believe if the nobles stayed, they would surely have plotted to kill Hinjo mid-battle (They even hired the grand larceny guy). Hinjo would've died horribly quickly and suspiciously without evidence. This would tip the balance I think

[factotum]

I believe if the nobles stayed, they would surely have plotted to kill Hinjo mid-battle (They even hired the grand larceny guy). Hinjo would've died horribly quickly and suspiciously without evidence. This would tip the balance I think

They DID plot to kill him mid-battle, and attempted it twice--Grand Larceny Guy, and the two ninjas who attacked him when the Huecuva showed up. What makes you think either of those attempts would have been more successful if the nobles themselves had been present?