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Duff
2007-08-12, 07:09 AM
I've noticed lots of classes that a sneaker may want to dip in get trapfinding at 1st level. What will substitute in the various classes?

Edit - I was unclear, I'm hoping to tap you folk for RAW class ability substitues for trapfinding

Oh and it is for a skulk, so sadly no changlings and -4 charisma so I prefer not to talk to people

MrNexx
2007-08-12, 12:12 PM
Personally, I don't use trapfinding. If you have sufficient search skill to find the trap, you find it. I would replace it with a +2 to search and disable device (basically, a feat). If someone has multiple classes that give trapfinding, the bonus stacks.

Raolin_Fenix
2007-08-12, 12:15 PM
A raging barbarian running down the hallway as fast as he can.

He was the best trapfinder ever. I don't think he missed one the entire dungeon. He even survived it.

In short: lots of HP, and a good Fort save, and either a good Will save or a bonus to it from something else (like barbarian rage). You won't need Reflex saves if you have enough HP to soak a fireball trap. :D

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom
2007-08-12, 12:16 PM
Or you could just have an orc barbarian in the party with a lot of HP, and have him run down dungeon hallways springing every trap for the rest of the party. :biggrin:

Raolin_Fenix
2007-08-12, 12:18 PM
Or you could just have an orc barbarian in the party with a lot of HP, and have him run down dungeon hallways springing every trap for the rest of the party. :biggrin:

BARBARIAN NINJA'D OMG

Morty
2007-08-12, 12:23 PM
A spellcaster with a wand of Summon Monster/Nature Ally I. Conjure up weak critters to spring traps for you.
Not that I would ever do this, but that seems viable.

MrNexx
2007-08-12, 12:38 PM
Or you could just have an orc barbarian in the party with a lot of HP, and have him run down dungeon hallways springing every trap for the rest of the party. :biggrin:

Ah, the famous Polish Mine Detector...

Spiryt
2007-08-12, 12:45 PM
Ah, the famous Polish Mine Detector...

Wait, why polish Mine Detector?


And besides, dwarf barbarian will have more HP.

Citizen Joe
2007-08-12, 12:54 PM
Dumping a large volume of water down a passage or into a room will quickly reveal pit traps.

Using a towershield in total defense gives you total cover, preventing attack based traps.

TheOOB
2007-08-12, 12:57 PM
Wait, why polish Mine Detector?


And besides, dwarf barbarian will have more HP.

But dwarves don't have the penalty to Int which makes Orcs so suggestible. But seriously, the trapfinding ability is a silly attempt to make it so your party has to have a rogue in it to find/disarm traps. I think anyone who has enough search/disable device should be able to find and disarm whatever they want.

Spiryt
2007-08-12, 01:07 PM
But seriously, the trapfinding ability is a silly attempt to make it so your party has to have a rogue in it to find/disarm traps. I think anyone who has enough search/disable device should be able to find and disarm whatever they want.


I fully agree.

" Oh I'm Hawkeye, a 17th level gray elf ranger with Minotaur bloodline, but anyway I can't notice this magical trap which is glowing red beacuse of cheap components"

Orzel
2007-08-12, 01:27 PM
1) 16 Con+ d12 class with good saves
2) Scroll of Summon Monster/Nature's Ally
3) Tons of followers and hirelings
4) A large boulder

Curmudgeon
2007-08-12, 03:31 PM
In the Rogue class description trapfinding is listed as necessary for finding traps with the Search skill. But the Search skill doesn't say you need to have the trapfinding ability; it says you need to be a Rogue. So theoretically you could have a Rogue alternate class feature that swaps out trapfinding for something else, and not experience any drawback whatsoever.

The obvious alternative is listed right in the Search skill description: the Find Traps spell.

Aquillion
2007-08-12, 03:35 PM
A spellcaster with a wand of Summon Monster/Nature Ally I. Conjure up weak critters to spring traps for you.
Not that I would ever do this, but that seems viable.The problem with this is that the short duration of those spells means that you have to already know that the traps are there; you can't just keep it summoned every time you want to walk someplace new... and the nastiest traps are the ones you DON'T know about.

Not to mention the fact that some traps are auto-reloading, while others are bad to set off even if you're using a stooge (alarms, say, or traps that flood a huge area with poison gas, or traps that cause an area to collapse, or traps that lock a door or otherwise make some part of the dungeon more difficult, or traps that summon something nasty, or... well, you get the idea. Not all traps are just the "hit whatever set it off" or "hit a very nearby area" variety.)

MrNexx
2007-08-12, 03:50 PM
Wait, why polish Mine Detector?


And besides, dwarf barbarian will have more HP.

It's from the book "The Sleeping Dragon" by Joel Rosenberg.

Darrin
2007-08-12, 03:51 PM
The problem with this is that the short duration of those spells means that you have to already know that the traps are there; you can't just keep it summoned every time you want to walk someplace new...

Which is why you'd use Mount instead.

Ranis
2007-08-12, 04:18 PM
A fist-sized rubber ball and a Bag of Tricks is all you'll ever need.

tannish2
2007-08-12, 05:27 PM
i beleive the geometer class from complete arcane gets trapfinding, and some other shiny things that any wizard without a blessed book (or who cant afford two) should have and some other cool stuff

ArmorArmadillo
2007-08-12, 07:03 PM
Complete Mage does have an alternative feature to Trap Sense that applies the AC bonus instead to targeted spells; which is a significantly better ability.

Jacob Orlove
2007-08-12, 07:07 PM
I've noticed lots of classes that a sneaker may want to dip in get trapfinding at 1st level. What will substitute in the various classes?
People, I think he's asking for alternate class features so that he doesn't have to have "trapfinding" on his character sheet like 5 times (which would, indeed, be a waste).

Changeling Rogues have an excellent 1st level substitution in Races of Eberron that trades Trapfinding for some excellent boosts to social skills (including the ability to "always take 10" on five of them, faster use of Gather Information, etc). You could probably convince your DM to allow it for rogues in general, if you had a good reason to be socially adept.

Duff
2007-08-14, 03:59 AM
Exactly! I'm droolingover a dip into spelltheif, rogue, beguiler and or Factorum, I can't help but think that's more trapfinding than I need for one character

Draz74
2007-08-14, 05:30 PM
Exactly! I'm droolingover a dip into spelltheif, rogue, beguiler and or Factorum, I can't help but think that's more trapfinding than I need for one character

Oh, add in Artificer and Ninja and Scout dips! You know you want to! :smallwink:

goat
2007-08-14, 05:42 PM
Ask your DM if instead of just trapfinding again, you can get a bonus like the Dwarven stonecutting one. So each extra trapfinding you get gives a +2 on noticing certain types of trap. So you could have stone-based, organic, earthen, metallic, magical...

edit - Of course, this assumes that your DM is one who actually USES traps. If they turn up about once every 6 months, then the bonuses will be useless and you might want to try and get them replaced with something more useful.

Duff
2007-08-15, 02:47 AM
Oh, add in Artificer and Ninja and Scout dips! You know you want to! :smallwink:

Scout and Ninja - who wouldn't? ;)

Unfortunatly goat, while he uses traps, he doesn't like bending the rules...

Tengu
2007-08-15, 03:00 AM
Wait, why polish Mine Detector?


I think because it's named after the real world device (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_mine_detector). Hmm, I didn't know that Poles invented this machine before. Nifty.