Duelist

[Rogerdodger557]

With just official material, what is the best way to build a duelist style character? My current build idea is BM14/Swashbuckler4.

[Unoriginal]

Define "duelist". Are you talking about someone who's best suited to fight 1 vs 1? A fencer like d'Artagnan who can fight hordes with a sword?

[Lombra]

Pick dueling fighting style and the defensive duelist feat and any martial class can be a dueler, swashbuckler is very effective.

It depends on if you want your primary source of damage to be sneak attacks or extra attacks, both choices are viable.

[Rogerdodger557]

Define "duelist". Are you talking about someone who's best suited to fight 1 vs 1? A fencer like d'Artagnan who can fight hordes with a sword?

mainly 1v1, bit still capable in other scenarios


Pick dueling fighting style and the defensive duelist feat and any martial class can be a dueler, swashbuckler is very effective.

It depends on if you want your primary source of damage to be sneak attacks or extra attacks, both choices are viable.

I might, but I hate the defensive duelist feat.

[Unoriginal]

Well, how resilient do you wish to be?

As a 1 vs 1 melee combatant, you're likely to get hit a lot. What kind of opponents do you want to challenge 1 vs 1?

[Rogerdodger557]

Well, how resilient do you wish to be?

As a 1 vs 1 melee combatant, you're likely to get hit a lot. What kind of opponents do you want to challenge 1 vs 1?

I'm playing AL, and we are doing the season 6(CoS) modules, with a chance of jumping into the books. Eventually, maybe Strahd? I've already taken on a powered up flesh golem(BM 4 right now), and walked out of that alive.

[DarkKnightJin]

...I am slightly disappoint that nobody suggested using cards that summon monsters to fight the battles for you.

...I kinda wanna see if I could find or make a homebrew class to be -that- kind of Duelist..

[Rogerdodger557]

...I am slightly disappoint that nobody suggested using cards that summon monsters to fight the battles for you.

...I kinda wanna see if I could find or make a homebrew class to be -that- kind of Duelist..

Illusion Wizard with a Deck of Illusions?

I too want to be that kind of duelist.

[Unoriginal]

...I am slightly disappoint that nobody suggested using cards that summon monsters to fight the battles for you.

...I kinda wanna see if I could find or make a homebrew class to be -that- kind of Duelist..


Illusion Wizard with a Deck of Illusions?

I too want to be that kind of duelist.

Technically, you can fluff any spell as having purely cosmetic effects like coming from a brief illusory creature

You could just have a deck of special cards as focus and say that you pick the one corresponding to a particular spell when you cast it.

Like:

-Pick up card and brandish it

-"Blouto the Toad Wizard: Magic Missile!"

-A small,brief illusion of the card's illustration appears on it and the spell erupt from there

And for rituals you combine different cards for a while

[strangebloke]

So, you want to wield a rapier in one hand, leave the other hand empty, and fight mano-a-mano? Are you ok with a buckler in the off-hand? Because that's better supported. It's pretty rare to receive bonuses for having a hand that is doing nothing. If you are willing to have a shield, though, you've got tons of options. Paladin, sorcadin... the list goes on.

I think the swashbuckler has an empty hand? Don't have SCAG on me. Kensai Monk can make use of that empty hand. Full casters like the bard can use their empty hand for casting.

[Rogerdodger557]

So, you want to wield a rapier in one hand, leave the other hand empty, and fight mano-a-mano? Are you ok with a buckler in the off-hand? Because that's better supported. It's pretty rare to receive bonuses for having a hand that is doing nothing. If you are willing to have a shield, though, you've got tons of options. Paladin, sorcadin... the list goes on.

I think the swashbuckler has an empty hand? Don't have SCAG on me. Kensai Monk can make use of that empty hand. Full casters like the bard can use their empty hand for casting.

I do have a shield, and as far as I can tell, swashbuckler doesn't restrict to not having a shield.

[Easy_Lee]

So you're playing a BM and want to know if eventually dipping rogue is effective. Is that right?

Yes, eventually dipping rogue is effective, especially swashbuckler, and double especially if you have the Riposte maneuver. Opportunity attacks go well with rogues.

I'd dip sooner. Take six in BM for the extra feat / ASI, pick up Sentinel if you don't have it, then start leveling rogue toward swashbuckler. By the time you reach level 11, you'll have sneak attack 5D6, cunning action, a few expertise choices, some swashbuckler kit, and uncanny dodge, all of which together are easily worth the lost fighter progression.

[Rogerdodger557]

So you're playing a BM and want to know if eventually dipping rogue is effective. Is that right?

Yes, eventually dipping rogue is effective, especially swashbuckler, and double especially if you have the Riposte maneuver. Opportunity attacks go well with rogues.

I'd dip sooner. Take six in BM for the extra feat / ASI, pick up Sentinel if you don't have it, then start leveling rogue toward swashbuckler. By the time you reach level 11, you'll have sneak attack 5D6, cunning action, a few expertise choices, some swashbuckler kit, and uncanny dodge, all of which together are easily worth the lost fighter progression.

My plan is to go 5 fighter, then 4 rogue, and then back to fighter. This way I get the extra attack, and can use commander's strike more effectively with the party's rogue.

Edit: my maneuvers are Riposte, Maneuvering Attack, Disarming Attack, Commander's Strike, and Feinting Attack

[MadBear]

I think you have the right of it with BM 14/SB 4, although I can see an argument for pure fighter.

Obvious max Dex, pick up the dueling fighting style, defensive duelist (I've had a player use it to really great effect). As for maneuvers:

- Riposte
- Parry
- Disarm
- Goading attack
- Distracting strike
- Menacing

those are all good for the build.

You could also consider picking up another couple maneuvers with feats, to really give you a good amount of superiority dice.

If nothing else, you're character would always have a lot of decisions to make with their character.

They miss you, great riposte
They barely it you, great defensive duelist
They hit you dead on, great parry

Damage wise, you're attacks maybe aren't going to be the strongest, but with superiority dice, high dex, and multiple attacks (including possible reaction attacks) you should be a decent threat.

[PeteNutButter]

Battlemaster lends itself very well to a heavy rogue build with Riposte. If you pick up that and sentinel. You can pretty regularly get an attack as a reaction which gives another sneak attack. That means each sneak attack damage die is doubly effective. BM 5/Rogue 15 could put out 16d6 sneak attack a round.

That's 1d8+7 x3 plus 8d6 x2 +1d8 per maneuver a round. That's 95 DPR, before magic weapons or anything like that.

At the very least I wouldn't leave rogue before level 5. Half damage as a reaction is VERY strong on any character.

[War_lord]

Swashbuckler works best with two weapons, since you get an automatic disengage from hitting your opponent.

[NiklasWB]

I'm currently playing a character that is a Duelist (Fighter 5 / Rogue 1), that I really, really like. Battle Master for now, and Swashbuckler in two levels.

First thing: he has a magical pair of Duelist's Bracers (+2 to AC when using a single weapon in one hand, wearing no armor or light armor and using no shield). It allows him to basically "have a shield" mechanics-wise but still keep one hand open for swinging in chandeliers or ropes or what have you. I basically asked my DM if I could keep him "optimized" in combat but still get to occasionally get to do fun swashbuckling stuff without having to doff a shield for a round.

I'm currently only level 1 in Rogue, so his swashbuckling shenanigans hasn’t really come online yet. But I’m planning on going Rogue 3 ASAP now that I have 2 attacks, so that I can get Cunning action, Fancy Footwork and Rakish Audacity. At level 8 the build should be pretty much “complete”, and the rest is just gravy.

The major concept that I’m working towards is:

1. Hopefully get a high initiative due to high DEX and Rakish Audacity.
2. Start by engaging a lone enemy (or lonely, like on the flank if they are grouped) with two attacks (Extra attack from Fighter), get some nice Sneak Attack from Rakish Audacity. Use Precision Attack maneuver if you miss. Use Disarming Strike maneuver to get rid of shields (one round to don) or other special items that you think might mess up your party (why not make them drop the mcguffin? kick it away if possible).
3. If you are missed by an attack from an enemy, use Riposte for additional Sneak Attack on someone else’s turn (hopefully).
4. Use your Cunning Action to Dash to pretty much get 60 feet of Speed every round. With Fancy footwork you should seldom need to worry about Disengaging. These things combined should let you dash in and out of combat, forcing the melee enemies to use their Actions to dash to keep up with you, or focus on someone else within their range.
5. At later levels, pick up more maneuvers (Pushing, Menacing, Trip, Parry or whatever you like. Use it to disable and move the enemies away from the spellcasters.

It's very fun so far, even though he is basically just a DEX fighter for now. Once I hit Rogue 3 I believe he will be even more fun.

[Rogerdodger557]

I'm currently playing a character that is a Duelist (Fighter 5 / Rogue 1), that I really, really like. Battle Master for now, and Swashbuckler in two levels.

First thing: he has a magical pair of Duelist's Bracers (+2 to AC when using a single weapon in one hand, wearing no armor or light armor and using no shield). It allows him to basically "have a shield" mechanics-wise but still keep one hand open for swinging in chandeliers or ropes or what have you. I basically asked my DM if I could keep him "optimized" in combat but still get to occasionally get to do fun swashbuckling stuff without having to doff a shield for a round.

I'm currently only level 1 in Rogue, so his swashbuckling shenanigans hasn’t really come online yet. But I’m planning on going Rogue 3 ASAP now that I have 2 attacks, so that I can get Cunning action, Fancy Footwork and Rakish Audacity. At level 8 the build should be pretty much “complete”, and the rest is just gravy.

The major concept that I’m working towards is:

1. Hopefully get a high initiative due to high DEX and Rakish Audacity.
2. Start by engaging a lone enemy (or lonely, like on the flank if they are grouped) with two attacks (Extra attack from Fighter), get some nice Sneak Attack from Rakish Audacity. Use Precision Attack maneuver if you miss. Use Disarming Strike maneuver to get rid of shields (one round to don) or other special items that you think might mess up your party (why not make them drop the mcguffin? kick it away if possible).
3. If you are missed by an attack from an enemy, use Riposte for additional Sneak Attack on someone else’s turn (hopefully).
4. Use your Cunning Action to Dash to pretty much get 60 feet of Speed every round. With Fancy footwork you should seldom need to worry about Disengaging. These things combined should let you dash in and out of combat, forcing the melee enemies to use their Actions to dash to keep up with you, or focus on someone else within their range.
5. At later levels, pick up more maneuvers (Pushing, Menacing, Trip, Parry or whatever you like. Use it to disable and move the enemies away from the spellcasters.

It's very fun so far, even though he is basically just a DEX fighter for now. Once I hit Rogue 3 I believe he will be even more fun.

A few weeks ago I figured out the best way to get the highest initiative modifier(without magic items). The build would 2+X Bard/3+X Rogue, at 20th level. You need the Alert feat(+5), 20 DEX(+5) and 20 CHA(+5), with Jack of All Trades(+3(Half-proficiency)), for a grand total of 18 Initiative modifier. you will almost always go first.

[PeteNutButter]

A few weeks ago I figured out the best way to get the highest initiative modifier(without magic items). The build would 2+X Bard/3+X Rogue, at 20th level. You need the Alert feat(+5), 20 DEX(+5) and 20 CHA(+5), with Jack of All Trades(+3(Half-proficiency)), for a grand total of 18 Initiative modifier. you will almost always go first.

Barbarians get advantage...

Also Champions at level 7 get the half proficiency bonus that jack of all trades does. It probably wouldn't stack, but since it rounds up its another +1 for a lot of levels.