The Perfect 18

[Vozen]

So let's do a thought exercise. Say you're starting a new character at level one, and the planets align and you roll six 18s in a row, perfect score, the highest possible roll. Now what?

And please don't say 'Oh I'd re-roll because it's super-unfair and unbalanced' or something, please. If you would, then you're a saint, but let's say you don't do that. What character does one build with those numbers? What race and class do you go with? What do you create?

Personally, I'd make a STR bladelock to see what total freedom from MAD is like. I'd also pick standard Human so I'd have 19 in everything, and future Skill upgrades would grant two 20s each.

[Aett_Thorn]

So let's do a thought exercise. Say you're starting a new character at level one, and the planets align and you roll six 18s in a row, perfect score, the highest possible roll. Now what?

And please don't say 'Oh I'd re-roll because it's super-unfair and unbalanced' or something, please. If you would, then you're a saint, but let's say you don't do that. What character does one build with those numbers? What race and class do you go with? What do you create?

Personally, I'd make a STR bladelock to see what total freedom from MAD is like. I'd also pick standard Human so I'd have 19 in everything, and future Skill upgrades would grant two 20s each.

I'd re-roll because it's super...oh, sorry.

With stats like those, I'd make one of two characters:

Gnome Barbarian. Since I have the Str and Con and Dex to do it with no bonuses, I can be a perfectly beefy brain. Also, you get Prof or Advantage on pretty much every saving throw you're going to encounter; and with stats like those, you'll likely succeed. "Bildingnish SMASH!...and then I'll investigate that lovely piece of pottery over there to determine it's historical origin."

Or,

Half-Elf Bladesinger 2/Valor Bard X. Gish it up right, and have plenty of options in and out of combat. You'd have 20s in Dex, Int, and Cha by level 4, and then you can just take feats from there for fun stuff.

[Rogerdodger557]

Vuman EK. +1 in STR and INT. Wait till later level to bump those up to 20s. Take feats up the wazoo.

[DarkKnightJin]

Honestly, I'd ask where they got the loaded dice and ask for a non-loaded pair and re-roll.

Provided it were my own dice, which I know aren't weighted, I'd probably go for something so MAD I can't even conceive of it right now. Possibly Paladin of Redemption and Sun Soul Monk. Be nigh untouchable, and I'm not eveb wearing anything besides my skivvies.

[PhantomSoul]

Ignoring that I'd definitely reroll some of them to make things more interesting (not all -- I'm crazy, but not that crazy!), I'd gish for sure. Probably Bladesinger 17 (alternatively old Favoured Soul, but I think the Bladesinger does better at taking advantage of the stats), potentially going for Barbarian 3 or Monk 3 with the extra levels (great Unarmoured Defense), though extra cantrips from Eldritch Knight or the Manoeuvres from Battlemaster would be tempting in addition to the Action Surge. Mixing 2 Fighter with 1 Monk or Barbarian might be my ideal long-term.

[Naanomi]

I played a game where this was part of the rules (all 18s, max HP each level)... I played a hilldwarf totem barbarian; but the yuan-ti paladin/monk probably used the stats the 'best'

[Aett_Thorn]

I played a game where this was part of the rules (all 18s, max HP each level)... I played a hilldwarf totem barbarian; but the yuan-ti paladin/monk probably used the stats the 'best'

There are very few class combos that are limited more by MAD than by other restrictions or trade-offs, but Paladin/Monk is definitely more restricted by MAD than anything else, and would definitely be a fun mix. Smiting fists of doom!

Other multiclass combos are MAD, but tend to have other reasons why you might not want to do them. For instance, a Druid/Mage is MAD, but it's also inefficient, as you tend to lose out on higher-level spells for little gain. Barbarian/Clerics are MAD, but since you can't cast or concentrate on a spell while raging, it's also inefficient.

A Monk/Warlock that is more than just a dip might be fun, too.

[Naanomi]

For instance, a Druid/Mage is MAD, but it's also inefficient, as you tend to lose out on higher-level spells for little gain
A level 20 conjurer/circle of Shepard would have a brutally powerful Wolfpack on tap...

[Willie the Duck]

Buying into the premise, I would do the theorized variant Human Rogue1/Ranger1/Cleric (knowledge)1/Warlock2/Lore bard (am I forgetting anything?) with feat: skilled. Because, my gawds, if you are going to make a polymath, make a f***ing polymath! I don't have any fantasies of playing the most powerful character EVAR (I did that at age 10 when the BECMI Master Set came out in an all-18-stat, Level 36, plus Monty Haul magic item distribution), but realizing a concept fully? Now that is cool.

[Naanomi]

Proficient in everything is a good path; assuming no UA you can get there quickest with v.human(skilled) Rogue 1/Knowledge Cleric 1/Lore Bard 3/Warlock 2... also leaves you in medium Armor+shield and with Eldritch Blast online

[Willie the Duck]

Noted (and build modified above to match), although ranger also gives you an extra skill when you MC into it.

[Citan]

So let's do a thought exercise. Say you're starting a new character at level one, and the planets align and you roll six 18s in a row, perfect score, the highest possible roll. Now what?

And please don't say 'Oh I'd re-roll because it's super-unfair and unbalanced' or something, please. If you would, then you're a saint, but let's say you don't do that. What character does one build with those numbers? What race and class do you go with? What do you create?

Personally, I'd make a STR bladelock to see what total freedom from MAD is like. I'd also pick standard Human so I'd have 19 in everything, and future Skill upgrades would grant two 20s each.
Well, I'd make the stupidest, but probably strongest multiclass ever available, racking feats and dips like I'm trying to gather all colors of m&m ever created. XD

Something like...
MELEE PUNISHER
- Bear Barbarian 3: just because its fun, also great unarmored AC in case of.
- Bladesinger 2: insane concentration and AC boost.
- Shadow Sorcerer 3: stupidly OP "avoid death" feature, Extend metamagic.
- Lore Bard 3: for those nice exclusive spells, skills and Bardic Inspiration.
- Swashbuckler Rogue 3: for more Expertise and +CHA to Initiative.
- Hexblade Warlock 3: Devil's Sight, "smite", Armor of Agathys.
- Paladin 2: Defense or Dueling, some nice spells, more importantly SMITE.

This build has a big problem, which is having too many great things with bonus action (Bladesong, Rage, Hex). Not THAT big of a problem though, it just means either you alternate them to last the full day, or you prepare while hidden.
You have a very good base AC (22), resistance to all damage, and Extend helps you prebuffing with high-level Armor of Agathys, Longstrider, Jump, or more narrow Mirror Image.
If you really want to nova, nothing beats unleashing Extra Attack + bonus action attack with "double smite" on each (you are caster level 9 so you can smack 3*4th and 3*3rd level slots).

PLAIN OL' MONK 14 / PALADIN 6
Because it's just gravvy whatever way you look at it.
Proficiency in all saves + reroll, and +CHA on all saves, for a whooping +6+4+5 (you obviously max CHA) +15 bonus to roll. With the remaining ASIs, grab Tough, pick Warcaster.

THE ONE WHO SHAN'T DIE
Shadow Sorcerer 3
Long Death Monk 14
Life Cleric 3
Grab Tough, Healer Feat, Ritual Caster (Wizard). Cast Extended Aid and False Life on you.
Proficiency in all saves, two rolls to avoid "drop to 0" (one free, one for 1 ki), + THP on kill, + Dodge as bonus action, + Shield of Faith / Sanctuary / Healing Words.

THE WORST PYROMANCER
Evoker 8 > half-damage on save, all spells Sorcerer don't have (including Fire Shield)
Phoenix Sorcerer 8 > +CHA on Fire, Scorching Ray, Flaming Sphere, Melf Meteors, Green Flame Blade, Fireball, etc... Quickened & Twinned.
Undying Light Warlock 1 > +CHA on Fire, Armor of Agathys for fun.
Battlemaster 3 (for more precision and Action Surge) or Swashbuckler 3 (more mobility and Expertise) or Nature Cleric (for Thorns Whip).
Grab GWM if fighter, otherwise "just" Elemental Adept, Mage Slayer, Mobile, Warcaster.

Several options here:
- Just cast Flaming Sphere / Meteors for a great bonus action while you unleash a Green Flame Blade (any build)
- Unleash a nova for extreme prejudice: GWM, Action Surge from Fighter, Quickened cantrip = 3*GreenFlame Blade each getting +10 (GWM)+5(Phoenix)+5(Undying Light).
- Cast a Create Bonfire and keep a creature restrained into it (obviously works with Wall of Fire too).

In fact, one could argue that an Eldricht Knight 11 / Phoenix Sorcerer 1 / Hexblade Warlock 5 / Swashbuckler Rogue 3 would work as good or maybe even better: considering the reaaaallly poor wording of Phoenix extra damage "whenever you roll fire damage on your turn", you could boost yourself with Elemental Weapon (fire), thus triggering the bonus on each attack. XD

THE CANTRIP MASTER
Confer related thread that lies somewhere in forum. ;)

[Nifft]

Definitely a Barbarian.

With 18 Dex + 18 Con, I've got one of the best ACs in the game while naked. Therefore, I walk around naked all the time, albeit with a shield ("for modesty").

My ASI would go for +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, and two feats (not necessarily in that order).

He'd be a Totem Barbarian, and his abnormally high Int / Wis / Cha could be RP'd as advice from invisible totem spirits. "Of course, I am only an ignorant savage, but I am blessed with cunning advisors. What's that, Wolf Spirit? Okay. She says we should go that-a-way."

Conan, but he wears a monocle and hears voices. The voices are often right.

This could be a fun character.

[N810]

^ And choose regular human so you can start with all 19's. :P
(then you would only need a feat and a 1/2 feat to get all 3 20's)

Also maybe multiclass wizard an rogue for lolz.

[Sans.]

Paladin/Bladesinger. You literally need every stat, but aside from that it works great.

[MaxWilson]

So let's do a thought exercise. Say you're starting a new character at level one, and the planets align and you roll six 18s in a row, perfect score, the highest possible roll. Now what?

It doesn't matter, because karma dictates that this PC is fated to get eaten by a grue at level 1.

[Easy_Lee]

Monk 1 / Wizard (Bladesinger) X on a high elf. Near full spellcasting progression and your naked AC while Bladesinging is 23, 24 as soon as you can raise INT by one point, and potentially 25 by level 9. That can go even higher with magic items. Wield a quarterstaff as your arcane focus. Bonus action unarmed strike keeps your at-will DPR reasonable until it no longer matters because you're a wizard.

[DivisibleByZero]

Monk 1 / Wizard (Bladesinger) X on a high elf. Near full spellcasting progression and your naked AC while Bladesinging is 23, 24 as soon as you can raise INT by one point, and potentially 25 by level 9. That can go even higher with magic items. Wield a quarterstaff as your arcane focus. Bonus action unarmed strike keeps your at-will DPR reasonable until it no longer matters because you're a wizard.

That's what I was going to say. Dex is already capped. Monk first for Str & Dex saves. My first four ASIs, in no particular order, would be:
1: +1 Wis / +1 Int (Int is now capped)
2: Resilient Wisdom (Wis is now capped, and you now have Wis saves)
3: War Caster (Con saves for concentration are now covered, although with Bladesong you don't really need this in any hurry)
4: Mobile
And the last ASI? Do whatever you want.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Oh geez....um... where do i start. I'm pretty sure Citan has most of them covered but.....


https://img15.deviantart.net/c828/i/2015/269/e/a/natsu_dragneel_fanart_lightning_flame_dragon_mode_ _by_avatar_san-d9avh1z.jpg

Ultimate Lightning Flame Dragon Raging Fist of Doom
Storm Herald Barbarian 6/ Long death Monk 6 / Conquest Paladin 8
Red Dragonborn. Grab Dragon Wings and Dragon Hide. Sea storm herald. use the other ASI's on dex and wisdom what have you

Rage + Smite + Stun+ Fear + Frightened have 0 speed = walk in and Pwn.

Start eating other people fire, and laugh in their face. Pick up a cat buddy and a cool scarf and walk around showing off your awesome abs.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55ANN_2qU0Q
The Wall
This one doesn't really need the stats but its feat intensive so definitely helps.
Battlemaster 12/Conquest Paladin 8
Go vHuman for more feats. that should be 7. Tavern Brawler, Shield Master, Dual Wielder, Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, Warcaster, Sentinel. Pick up Defensive and either Protection or Dueling fighting style.

Strats: Dual Wield Shields. Preferably tower shields. Pick up all the fun maneuvers you want and run around with two shields smiting and bashing people to the ground. Put Fear into them, then use your action surge, 3 attacks and shield master shove, and maybe some maneuvers to knock everyone prone, while feared in your aura (prone and speed 0 combo), then just keep thwaking people with your shields. Throw them around too, you can still punch smite. Walk around in heavy armor.

This allows for 20 strength via vhuman +1 and tavern brawler. everything else is a +4 which is pertty good still, not to mention shield master + paladin aura means that you will never fail a dex save. If you feel like one of these feats does't add much replace it with Heavy Armor Master, now you have a good reason to walk around with full plate.

These are a couple for now but i have loads more.

[War_lord]

Use it as a great example of why rolled stats are an awful idea in the modern form of D&D.

[Citan]

Use it as a great example of why rolled stats are an awful idea in the modern form of D&D.
Well... Not necessarily.
I'd say it all depends on method of rolling, and of party agreement.

Being the only one with really bad rolls, or having decent ones when everyone else has great, can indeed suck a lot (said otherwise, it requires a particular mindset -non-competitive one- from other players to not become an annoying weight).

IF however DM provides a way to roll that ensures everyone is more or less in the upper basket, or even decides on a power-level arbitrary array... Where is the problem?

Unless, in addition to everyone having great stats, several players also want the same class, there really is no problem imo: it just means players will have a much easier way surviving the low levels, but just a tad easier way to survive the higher (even a +4 to WIS save or CON save won't help much alone against high CR enemies's abilities).
And it means whatever freaky build a player had in mind, he can realize (of course, you could argue that just waving multiclass requirement would work equally well ;)).

[Gignere]

Monk 1 / Wizard (Bladesinger) X on a high elf. Near full spellcasting progression and your naked AC while Bladesinging is 23, 24 as soon as you can raise INT by one point, and potentially 25 by level 9. That can go even higher with magic items. Wield a quarterstaff as your arcane focus. Bonus action unarmed strike keeps your at-will DPR reasonable until it no longer matters because you're a wizard.

Probably do the monk 1 /wizard x/paladin 6 this way you can take advantage of wis/dex/cha/int.

[GlenSmash!]

I'd play the same thing as if I had all 14s. Barbarian/Ranger.

But I always play some version of Barbarian, Fighter, or Ranger regardless of method of stat generation or what stats I get.

[Kane0]

Hmm. Reminds me when I rolled almost straight 16s for a champion fighter.

I'd probably try a Warlock / Rogue / Shadow Monk. So much going on, no need to worry about getting the ASIs. Any +2 DEX, WIS or CHA race.

[Dudewithknives]

I would go with a human variant monk with the feat brawny.

Start with Str 20, and wis of 19, everything else 18.

At 4 take observant.

I would play a grappling monk, that actually can afford to take a feat at some point.

I do not even really care which subclass, they all have their uses, ok well maybe not 4 elements monk, that one is just garbage.

I would probably just go with path of the drunken master just to be flopping around and punching and kicking and grappling people to take with me on a bender.

[Nifft]

^^^

Oooo, yeah, a Shadow Monk 20 would also be great.

"I passed the Int check."

"How?"

"The Shadow Knows."

[Slipperychicken]

Fighter or barbarian, probably a soldier or folk hero. Just so I can play a non-magician with a brain, maybe even try out the whole "leader of men" thing that fighters are supposed to be good at. Kinda like original Conan instead of some brain-damaged hulk.

[MeeposFire]

Does not really need it but perhaps going rogue 11 to get reliable talent and then bard 2 for jack of all trades and make yourself the ultimate in ability checks since you will get at least 1/2 prof+11+high ability score mod to every check. Not many can say that.

[Easy_Lee]

Probably do the monk 1 /wizard x/paladin 6 this way you can take advantage of wis/dex/cha/int.

That's an idea, but it's a very different sort of build.

You could also opt for regular human - anything and hit 20 in every attribute by 12, just to say you did it.

[Grey Watcher]

Tempting to go Paladin 6/Monk 14, for all the saving throws, spending ASI's or Feats to get all the scores up to 20.

However, Paladin 6/Monk 10 /Rogue 2 has possibilities: Paladin 6 gives you the aura to boost saves, Monk 10 gives you +20 movement, and Rogue 2 lets you Dash as a bonus action, for potential triple speed. Why all this? So you can hand out saving throw bonuses to all your friends of course!

Pick up Resilient (Con) for that last saving throw proficiency, Mobility for more speed, and UA's Acrobat and Brawny to make rough terrain and climbing easier.

Bump Paladin and Monk up one more level apiece to get the 7th and 11th level features, respectively. I'd recommend Oath of Vengeance for mobility cheese on Relentless Avenger and Open Hand for Tranquility (Sanctuary is handy when your main job is "Stand here for a bit.") Though abusing the Shadow Monk's hiding and teleporting is also tempting.

Basically, share the wealth!

[Mith]

That's an idea, but it's a very different sort of build.

You could also opt for regular human - anything and hit 20 in every attribute by 12, just to say you did it.

Barbarian 20. The true pinnacle of mortal attributes with the 24 in Str and Con.

[grumbaki]

Mountain Dwarf Barbarian

Str (20) Dex (18) Con (20) Int (18) Wis (18) Cha (18)

That's AC19 naked at level 1 with Str maxed out.

Skills:
Investigation (Int)
Perception (Wis)
Intimidate (Cha)
Athletics (Str)

Lvl 4: Great Weapon Master
Lvl 8: +2 Dex
Lvl 12: Magical Initiate
- Firebolt (strong ranged damage)
- Prestigitation (keeps your beer cold)
- Longstrider (Movement 45 dwarf!)
Lvl 16: Resilient (Wis 19 and saves)
Lvl 19: Observant (Wis 20, and eyes of a hawk)

[imanidiot]

So let's do a thought exercise. Say you're starting a new character at level one, and the planets align and you roll six 18s in a row, perfect score, the highest possible roll. Now what?

And please don't say 'Oh I'd re-roll because it's super-unfair and unbalanced' or something, please. If you would, then you're a saint, but let's say you don't do that. What character does one build with those numbers? What race and class do you go with? What do you create?

Personally, I'd make a STR bladelock to see what total freedom from MAD is like. I'd also pick standard Human so I'd have 19 in everything, and future Skill upgrades would grant two 20s each.

Probably something to do with an Immortal Mystic. Some Soul Knife stuff, some Awakened stuff. Need high Str, Dex, Con, and Int at least. High Wis and Cha for saves, Perception, and face skills.

[Arelai]

I think the only right answer here would be HALF ELF - VALOR BARD

Get swift quiver at level 10, aura of vitality(if you never want to fail a save) or haste if your gonna brawl, have amazing rolls in every skill(jack of all trades). Put your 1's in Dex and con so with one ASI your AC can have max HP and an AC of potentially 19(half plate with shield.)

[qube]

Beserker - because that should balance things out :smallbiggrin:

[Ninjadeadbeard]

So let's do a thought exercise. Say you're starting a new character at level one, and the planets align and you roll six 18s in a row, perfect score, the highest possible roll. Now what?

I actually had the HORROR pleasure of seeing such a thing happen in real life once. She ended up making a MONSTER Bard. As the DM, I was rather......perturbed.

[Citan]

Ok, I got it (well, ONE of the builds I'd really like, which is not trying to powercheese its way like with the usual Sorcerer/Warlock "overslots" for example).

One of "my perfect 18" would be (this time, no UA at all)...

Any race (although Normal Human for kicks would be fun).
Life Cleric 1: all good buffs, Healing Words.
Land Druid 3: mainly for Pass Without Trace, cantrips, + a few other spells.
Shadow Monk 5: for Dodge as bonus action, Martial Arts, spells for Ki, Extra Attack, Stunning Strike.
Fiend Tome Warlock 5: Agonizing Repelling Blast, rituals, Hex, short rest slots.
Draconic Sorcerer 1: more cantrips, always useful spells (Shield, Chromatic Orb).
Paladin 2: because smite.
Bladesinger 2: because even more cantrips, spells and AC.
Rogue 1: for expertise.

This "good at all, great at none" does not care about being optimized at something. He just spent his life in fear of "not being prepared for what's coming" but proved incapable of persisting in any given way, especially mastering high level magic, thus flipping lifechoices like a pushover everytime people criticized or advised him.
As a result, he dropped his Paladin training before achieving it to instead make a Pact, hoping this would be the "easier" way. And managed to scrape a bit more of power by obeying his Patron as good as he could, obviously going against Life teachings in the process (wonder what wrath could a "God of Life" unleash on a practicioner that breachs his laws).

However an incoherent build that may seem, it would in fact work pretty well in general, just lackluster and a bit weak against the most powerful enemies.
You'd have...
- Spells: 5+7+8+4+5+8 = 34 1st and 2nd level spells prepared and up to 3 3rd level known, including all the indispensable ones, to choose from a list up to ~80 spells (thanks to Cleric and Druid "change as you wish" mechanic, and potential extra spells as Wizard).
- Spell slots: very respectable level 8 caster for mundane magic, + 3rd level short rest slots for your Warlock spells or upcast buffs/heals or smite.
- Around 15 cantrips (sorry, too lazy to go check the PHB XD) so every great utility (Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Message, Prestidigitation, Mold Earth, Guidance), melee attack (Thorns Whip, Shocking Grasp, Booming Blade, GreenFlame Blade) and ranged attack (Firebolt, Sacred Flamed, Create Bonfire or Ray of Frost, Chill Touch, Eldricht Blast).
- Plus (possibly) all the rituals spells from 1st to 3rd level.
- 2 or 3 consistant attacks per round.
- emergency Dodge/Dash/Disengage with ki.
- + a great AC and good array of skills.

To be honest, I'd nearly rather play that kind of whacky character than an utterly optimized one, although obviously in a very high-level campaign it would have trouble to shine when casters unleash 9th level spells or martials whack away with lots of feats.
This character would have no way of playing the hard hero dueling dragons or the like.

As the 5th wheel of a hero party though? He'd be a great support, providing nourishment/healing (Life Goodberry) and shelter (LTH) during travel, facilitating it (Water Walking/Breathing/Pass Without Trace/Silence), Enhancing people for the important checks, taking care of the usual buffs during a fight, spying away (Wild Shape + Comprehend Languages + Stealth Expertise + possibly Observant), prebuffing people as needed, etc.
In the toughest fights, he could at least provide a decent nova damage thanks to smite and stunning strike, and otherwise spend his time using the most suited cantrip (ally need a cover? Mold Earth. Enemy threatening a pal? Thorns Whip. Pesky tank being healed? Chill Touch etc) or just bashing/shoving/grappling away (Expertise in Athletics).

[90sMusic]

I don't think i'd do anything special honestly. Probably just make another Tabaxi rogue, only this time my strength score wouldn't suck and my perception and investigation skills would be even better.

What more could you ask?

[Arkhios]

A bit late to the party, but I would almost instinctively make standard human Paladin 6 (devotion)/Monk 14 (kensei):

Begin with STR 19, DEX 19, CON 19, INT 19, WIS 19, CHA 19.

Grab GWM at 4th level, and use the remaining ASI (in order) for +1 DEX & WIS, +1 STR & CHA, and +1 CON & INT.

[Findulidas]

Perhaps just a lizardfolk knowledge cleric. Loads of skills and still pretty standard good. Grab the UA perception feat at first level maybe? With your 13+dex+shield you dont really have to worry about AC either.

Granted I played to do this already, but thats because its pretty nice regardless I think.

[Easy_Lee]

There's also something to be said for a monk / paladin / moon druid. Monk AC and unarmed strikes while in beast form, and you can smite with druid spell slots. Normally this multiclass would be prohibitively MAD.

[mr-mercer]

I'll be honest, I have neither the smarts nor the creativity to do anything interesting with it: I'd probably just build another half-orc champion and enjoy being the ultimate badass at everything I try my hand at. Nothing fancy, just being capable of smashing down walls and never having to be scared of mind control ever again.

That said, if I rolled all 18s legitimately I would fight tooth and nail to keep those rolls. Weaknesses mean depth to a character, but I enjoy feeling strong perhaps more than is entirely healthy.

[Dudewithknives]

You could always go skill monkey route.

Rogue 11, scout archetype
Lore Bard 6
Scout fighter 3
Skilled feat
Background of whatever
Play either a human with prodigy or a half elf with everybody's friend.

Proficiency in every skill, expertise in 8 or 10.
Can't roll under 10 on any skill

For ASI take the stats or just the feats that give a stat and a skill expertise.

Not a bad combat build and a god outside combat.

[Easy_Lee]

A DM who allows players to roll is taking the chance that the players roll high. A DM who then doesn't allow players to keep those high rolls is committing the worst sort of sin a DM can commit. He's going back on his word.

[Dudewithknives]

A DM who allows players to roll is taking the chance that the players roll high. A DM who then doesn't allow players to keep those high rolls is committing the worst sort of sin a DM can commit. He's going back on his word.

Not to derail but I have been told on at least 4 occasions by a dm, I don't care what you rolled, I am not letting you kill that guy, open that door, find those tracks and the worst one "we are doing this fight cinematicaly, so he kills you"


That is worse.

[Easy_Lee]

Not to derail but I have been told on at least 4 occasions by a dm, I don't care what you rolled, I am not letting you kill that guy, open that door, find those tracks and the worst one "we are doing this fight cinematicaly, so he kills you"


That is worse.

Well, it kind of falls under the same heading. The DM isn't doing what he agreed to do as a DM, which is run the world fairly. Every DM guide out there tells DMs not to do what yours did. So it's still a form of dishonesty, just implicit.

But I agree that your examples are more egregious. I've had DMs dictate my actions to me, and that's no fun either.

[ZorroGames]

Unsure of class but definitely Mountain Dwarf. ST 20 and CO 20 would be a nice start. :smallwink: :smallsmile: :smallcool:

And no one should be surprised at the race, right? :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

[sky red hunter]

Make a Pala-Barb-Champ....

Three levels of barb, no armour needed, high ac for unarmored defence. Rage, reckless attack, bear totem for halving all damage.

Three levels of fighter, fighting style (GWF), SECOND WIND, ACTION SURGE!! (oops caps lock was on but its fitting for the fighter), take champion and crit on a 19/20.

At least five levels of paladin, divine sense, lay on hands, another fighting style, spell casting and SMITE!!! as and extra attack.

Your first turn of combat = bonus action rage, reckless attack twice, crit on a 19/20, action surge and reckless attack twice more!! so four attacks at advantage and a higher crit rate.

reckless gives enemies attacks advantage against you but you'll take half damage while raging so all good.

To top it off, be a half-orc and all those crits become even better, with extra dice and smites on top!!

A crackingly solid combat character with plenty of room for roleplaying ideas.

[GlenSmash!]

Not to derail but I have been told on at least 4 occasions by a dm, I don't care what you rolled, I am not letting you kill that guy, open that door, find those tracks and the worst one "we are doing this fight cinematicaly, so he kills you"


That is worse.

Yikes... I mean that's just... I'm staggered by how bad this is.

[smcmike]

A bit late to the party, but I would almost instinctively make standard human Paladin 6 (devotion)/Monk 14 (kensei):

Begin with STR 19, DEX 19, CON 19, INT 19, WIS 19, CHA 19.

Grab GWM at 4th level, and use the remaining ASI (in order) for +1 DEX & WIS, +1 STR & CHA, and +1 CON & INT.

+16 to all saves is . . . Pretty good.

[Finback]

"Bildingnish SMASH!...and then I'll investigate that lovely piece of pottery over there to determine it's historical origin."

I can imagine him using some very specific, precise phrasings.
"Bildingnish DEFENESTRATE!"
".. did you just specifically say you would toss me out the window?"
"Bildingnish loquaciousness matched only by verbosity!" *shove*

[LaserFace]

Half-Orc Champion Fighter.

And I will constantly try to do things outside my skillset that the rest of the party is too meek to do themselves. I will do acrobatic leaps from castle ramparts, I will enter Trivia Contests against Loremasters, I will try to impersonate The Duke, I will engage in a guitar duel with the Infamous Adversarial Bard. And when all-else fails, I can do some violence.

Either my character will live gloriously, or die gloriously and I can reroll up something on the level of the rest of the party.

[90sMusic]

Yikes... I mean that's just... I'm staggered by how bad this is.

I've had the same experience before.

I remember being in a time sensitive situation where we were trying to get this crown off of a dead king's head but it wouldn't come off. We were being rushed and had to hurry out of there, so I was just going to cut his head off and sort out how to remove the crown from it later and the DM was like "... A magical shield appears around his neck, preventing his head from being cut off..."

And of course I went :|

I hate bad DMs. I really, really do.

[JBPuffin]

Oh! I know! One of everything, then go Fighter 5 (EK), Paladin 2, Wizard 2 (Abjurer), Barbarian 2, Rogue 2.

No, I'm serious. It's psychotic AF and not terribly synergetic, but it can do a decent amount of damage and has all sorts of just...weird synergies. Arcane Recovery for an extra smite/day, and not half-bad spell slots (selection's all over the place, though). I'd probably go with Barbarian first for maximum HP, then go Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Monk, Rogue, Bard, Warlock, Sorcerer, Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Wizard, Fighter the rest. This doesn't include UA for my sanity and that of others, even though this build's premise certainly doesn't >.>.

Actually, I think I'm going to plug this into my automated character sheet. Go Eladrin for free Misty Step fun, and Far Traveler because GD this makes no ****** sense...

Guys, I can't see most of my class features on my characters sheet...it's so beautiful.

[skaddix]

It has a 9.84640042E-15 chance of happening so yeah probably cheated.

I probably build a Abjuration Wizard 14/Paladin 6

[suplee215]

Bugbear Thief and be able to jump 40 feet with no help with only 5 feet running jump after advantage.

[Citan]

A bit late to the party, but I would almost instinctively make standard human Paladin 6 (devotion)/Monk 14 (kensei):

Begin with STR 19, DEX 19, CON 19, INT 19, WIS 19, CHA 19.

Grab GWM at 4th level, and use the remaining ASI (in order) for +1 DEX & WIS, +1 STR & CHA, and +1 CON & INT.


+16 to all saves is . . . Pretty good.
Well, if you REALLY want to be a major pain to all the most deadly creatures...
Swap Kensei for Long Death.

Now not only do you have +16 in all saves, PLUS the ability to spend a Ki to reroll (Diamond Soul) which already made you extremely hard to deal with...
But in addition to that you can get 19 THP on a more or less regular basis, PLUS you can spend a ki to avoid the dreaded 0 hp.

(Also, you get Shield of Faith or Sanctuary from Paladin for the toughest fights, and Lay on Hands to relief yourself).

"Come at me, you big ugly CR 18+ creatrure" :smallcool:

[Aett_Thorn]

There's also something to be said for a monk / paladin / moon druid. Monk AC and unarmed strikes while in beast form, and you can smite with druid spell slots. Normally this multiclass would be prohibitively MAD.

Not sure how many DMs allow for Monk AC to be used in wildshape forms, but I had a similar thought with the Paladin/Druid. Turn into a rampaging bear that has smiting paws of doom! However, you'd actually be LOWERING your physical stats to do this, which kind of stinks. But at least you get multiattack in many forms, allowing you to smite a few times per turn.

[DivisibleByZero]

Not sure how many DMs allow for Monk AC to be used in wildshape forms

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/01/14/druid-monk-unarmored-defense-in-shapeshift-form/


@mikemearls @JeremyECrawford Druid/Monk,unarmored defense usable in shapeshift forms?

@BrailSays The druid/monk could use Unarmored Defense or the beast's AC calculation. @mikemearls

They don't stack, but you can choose which to use. In this example, the Monk's 10+Dex+Wis is almost certainly going to be significantly better, even with the beast's likely lower (than your own) Dexterity. Basically, you're gaining your Wis mod to AC instead of getting any potential natural armor from the beast.

[grumbaki]

Half Elf Lore Bard (10) Paladin (6) Barbarian (4)

Str (19) Dex (18) Con (19) Int (18) Wis (18) Cha (20)
Skills:
Lvl 1: Deception (Class) Intimidation (Class) Performance (Class) Perception (Race) Investigation (Race) Persuasion (Background) Acrobatics (Background)
Lvl 3: Athletics (Class) Sleight of Hand (Class) Stealth (Class)
ASI:
Lvl 4: +1 Str (20) +1 Con (20)
Lvl 8: Great Weapon Master
Lvl 4 Paladin: +2 Dex (20)
Lvl 4 Barbarian: +2 Wis (20)

Bard: Spells (including form any class of choice), amazing in all skills
Paladin: Cha to all saves, spells, great weapon fighting style, 2 attacks, lay on hands...
Barbarian: Unarmored Defense, Reckless Attack, Rage

End up being a skill monkey. A very versatile caster. A melee beat stick. A tank.

[GlenSmash!]

I've had the same experience before.

I remember being in a time sensitive situation where we were trying to get this crown off of a dead king's head but it wouldn't come off. We were being rushed and had to hurry out of there, so I was just going to cut his head off and sort out how to remove the crown from it later and the DM was like "... A magical shield appears around his neck, preventing his head from being cut off..."

And of course I went :|

I hate bad DMs. I really, really do.

Huh. I think I would just, you know, let the players take the crown from the head.

[smcmike]

Half Elf Lore Bard (10) Paladin (6) Barbarian (4)

Str (19) Dex (18) Con (19) Int (18) Wis (18) Cha (20)
Skills:
Lvl 1: Deception (Class) Intimidation (Class) Performance (Class) Perception (Race) Investigation (Race) Persuasion (Background) Acrobatics (Background)
Lvl 3: Athletics (Class) Sleight of Hand (Class) Stealth (Class)
ASI:
Lvl 4: +1 Str (20) +1 Con (20)
Lvl 8: Great Weapon Master
Lvl 4 Paladin: +2 Dex (20)
Lvl 4 Barbarian: +2 Wis (20)

Bard: Spells (including form any class of choice), amazing in all skills
Paladin: Cha to all saves, spells, great weapon fighting style, 2 attacks, lay on hands...
Barbarian: Unarmored Defense, Reckless Attack, Rage

End up being a skill monkey. A very versatile caster. A melee beat stick. A tank.

This is very good. Instead of Wisdom, I'd add Sharpshooter for reliable ranged damage with Swift Quiver.

[grumbaki]

This is very good. Instead of Wisdom, I'd add Sharpshooter for reliable ranged damage with Swift Quiver.

True. I have to agree with that.