Leomund's Tiny Hut interactions: Trickster Cleric, Rope Trick

[Citan]

HI all!

While posting in some other threads about Wizard builds, a question sprung into my mind, which in turn led to another.

How would Leomund's interact with 1) Trickster Cleric's Channel Divinity 2) Rope Trick?

Invoke Duplicity
Cleric's CD says that you can "cast spells as though you were in the illusion's space, but you must use your own senses".

Tiny Hut says "a 10-foot-radius immobile dome of force springs into existence around and above you and remains stationary for the duration".

Putting aside the practical considerations that make this situation improbable to realize in practice (CD lasts 1mn, Tiny Hut takes 1mn to cast XD), how would you rule this?
a) Tiny Hut still is created around the actual character, per the wording of the spell (LTH description > CD description).
b) Tiny Hut is created around the duplicate (CD description > LTH description) but disappears soon (after) because, since the duplicate took the place of "you", and disappears once duration has expired, technically it ("you") leaves the sapce.
c) Tiny Hut is created around the duplicate and it stays for the duration.

Imo c) is obviously illogical so out of the question.
Considering how impractical and limited it would be in the first place, I'd totally allow the b) case, but what about RAW?

Rope Trick
Two questions here: would the Tiny Hut fit inside the Rope Trick's dimension (there is absolutely no indication about size or shape of RT except that up to 8 Medium creatures -which usually are between 4 and 8 feet tall and take around "5-feet" space)?
My gut feeling would be yes, also I see no indication against it by RAW.

Then comes the next questions...
1. Does it have a bottom? (I couldn't find a definitive answer on this, but I think I read somewhere that answer was yes).
2. What happens then when Rope Trick ends? Does the Tiny Hut...
a) Fall with everything inside?
b) Stays stationary in the air?

If b), that could lead to very funny situations. XD

[Renduaz]

HI all!

While posting in some other threads about Wizard builds, a question sprung into my mind, which in turn led to another.

How would Leomund's interact with 1) Trickster Cleric's Channel Divinity 2) Rope Trick?

Invoke Duplicity
Cleric's CD says that you can "cast spells as though you were in the illusion's space, but you must use your own senses".

Tiny Hut says "a 10-foot-radius immobile dome of force springs into existence around and above you and remains stationary for the duration".

Putting aside the practical considerations that make this situation improbable to realize in practice (CD lasts 1mn, Tiny Hut takes 1mn to cast XD), how would you rule this?
a) Tiny Hut still is created around the actual character, per the wording of the spell (LTH description > CD description).
b) Tiny Hut is created around the duplicate (CD description > LTH description) but disappears soon (after) because, since the duplicate took the place of "you", and disappears once duration has expired, technically it ("you") leaves the sapce.
c) Tiny Hut is created around the duplicate and it stays for the duration.

Imo c) is obviously illogical so out of the question.
Considering how impractical and limited it would be in the first place, I'd totally allow the b) case, but what about RAW?

Rope Trick
Two questions here: would the Tiny Hut fit inside the Rope Trick's dimension (there is absolutely no indication about size or shape of RT except that up to 8 Medium creatures -which usually are between 4 and 8 feet tall and take around "5-feet" space)?
My gut feeling would be yes, also I see no indication against it by RAW.

Then comes the next questions...
1. Does it have a bottom? (I couldn't find a definitive answer on this, but I think I read somewhere that answer was yes).
2. What happens then when Rope Trick ends? Does the Tiny Hut...
a) Fall with everything inside?
b) Stays stationary in the air?

If b), that could lead to very funny situations. XD

I assume you are referring to my own thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?528162-The-Invincible-Caster-(-Invoke-Duplicity-Etherealness-Forcecage-Other-))?

I'd probably rule "b", if you chose to use the illusion. It's you can "cast spells as though you were in the illusion's space", not "You can cast spells as though the illusion was in the illusion's space".

Therefore LTH for all intents and purpose treats the illusion as "you" when cast though the Illusion's space, and remains until the illusion fades.

RT would have to be a DM ruling on interior size. LTH does say that nine medium creatures can fit inside, while RT only up to eight. Given that those creatures can be completely crammed against each other, it would be a tough call. I'd probably rule against it fitting, since the "max" of RT is 8 medium, and LTH's max is 9 medium. Anyway, 1 would have to be ruling, since you can argue with absurdity, yet still do, that the RT has no bottom yet it can still fit 9 people but they all need to be perpetually levitating or flying inside. So most DM's would probably rule it does have a bottom. If Rope Trick ends, the hut which is Evocation pure Force magic, much like "Forcecage", and is immobile by RAW, stationary for the duration, remains in the air. No question about it.

[Tanarii]

Then comes the next questions...
1. Does it have a bottom? (I couldn't find a definitive answer on this, but I think I read somewhere that answer was yes).Per JC Tweet, no, it does not have a floor/bottom.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/01/24/does-leomunds-tiny-hut-have-a-floor/

[Renduaz]

Per JC Tweet, no, it does not have a floor/bottom.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/01/24/does-leomunds-tiny-hut-have-a-floor/

And JC tweet 30 minutes later sarcastically updates "Leomund's tiny hut does have a floor, Mr. Crawford (read your own book). The spell's range entry says the effect is hemispherical." (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/823774362293542912?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sageadvice.eu%2F2017%2F0 1%2F24%2Fdoes-leomunds-tiny-hut-have-a-floor%2F)

[Tanarii]

And JC tweet 30 minutes later sarcastically updates "Leomund's tiny hut does have a floor, Mr. Crawford (read your own book). The spell's range entry says the effect is hemispherical." (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/823774362293542912?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sageadvice.eu%2F2017%2F0 1%2F24%2Fdoes-leomunds-tiny-hut-have-a-floor%2F)That's what I get for not reading the entire thing. :smallredface: Thanks.

[tieren]

Note the inside of the rope trick is a different dimension, so if you could summon a LTH inside it, it would not float in the air when RT ended it would remain in whatever pocket dimension it was created in.

[Renduaz]

Note the inside of the rope trick is a different dimension, so if you could summon a LTH inside it, it would not float in the air when RT ended it would remain in whatever pocket dimension it was created in.

I forgot about that, that's true.

[No brains]

A Trickery Cleric 2, Fighter 2, Wizard 5 could use action surge to invoke duplicity and cast the spell through the duplicate. Either they could invoke and cast in the same turn, or they could possibly action surge on the last round of casting to suddenly make LTH a 30' range spell.

I don't know what else that character is good for, but they can do that.

[Citan]

Note the inside of the rope trick is a different dimension, so if you could summon a LTH inside it, it would not float in the air when RT ended it would remain in whatever pocket dimension it was created in.
Wouldn't it become a very convenient way (even if it's quite annoying to set up) to definitely get rid of people? XD

[Degwerks]

Wouldn't it become a very convenient way (even if it's quite annoying to set up) to definitely get rid of people? XD

That's an interesting thought but doesn't LTH go away when the caster steps out of it?

I suppose If it was the caster you're trying to get rid of it'd probably work.

[Citan]

That's an interesting thought but doesn't LTH go away when the caster steps out of it?

I suppose If it was the caster you're trying to get rid of it'd probably work.
I was actually asking in the context of a LTH cast with Duplicate interaction allowed by the DM (Cast Rope Trick, near the end prepare LTH, invoke Duplicity, cast on it, LTH stays at least the time of duplicate).

Beyond that, the original idea was to use enemies's anticipation about LTH against themselves (cast a "fake" LTH so enemies aggro there while party hides elsewhere, buff self or prepare a big bang attack).

But I just realize my question was totally baseless, mindless, useless in the first place... I forgot, *yet again*, that you have to use concentration to maintain the duplicate. Yet casting a spell that requires a casting time of more than one action ALSO requires concentration if I'm not mistaken. So per RAW effects break one another, whichever the order...

Argh, I'm so frustrated by Invoke Duplicity limitations... XD

[sir_argo]

Quick note, I had a wizard with LTH in a spell gem, which allows casting the spell as an action regardless of the spells stated casting time, so your scenario is entirely plausible.

1) YOU are casting the spell. While this may be hard, resist the temptation to think the illusion is casting the spell. LTH says the spell ends if you leave the LTH. Again, not the illusion, YOU leave. Well, you were never in the LTH to begin with, so it is a DM's call if the LTH ends immediately, or if this counts as a loophole and sticks around. Of course, you won't be able to get into it because you weren't in it when the spell was first cast.

2) Rope Trick says it creates a space that can hold 8 people. LTH says it can hold 9 people. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that 9 is bigger than 8 and that the LTH won't fit within the space created by a Rope Trick. However, just for argument's sake, let's say the space created by RT is large enough to create an LTH inside. Demiplanes are considered extraplanar, i.e. you are not on the same plane of existence as everyone else. When they end, you travel back to the regular plane of existence (Rope Trick says "drop out", Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion says "expelled"). The key here is that you are moving from one location to another. LTH cannot be moved. It is stuck right where it is, essentially in that demiplane. YOU however, are transported back to the regular plane of existence. For the record, since the demiplane no longer exists, I would rule (not RAW) that any persistent magical effects that were there end. So if you cast a Force Cage inside of a Rope Trick, the Force Cage would end when the demiplane ceased to exist.

[denthor]

I do not know about 5e but in previous edition the caster of the tiny hut had to stay in the tiny hut.

In my game pathfinder we cast tiny hut the inside the tiny hut we cast rope trick all but shift gaurd and caster go in the rope trick. No one with a bag of holding goes in rope trick two interdimentional spaces in the same place not good