Question about

[samcifer]

So in the PHB in the Warlock section, specifically the Eldritch Invocations, Armor of Shadows reads:

"You can cast mage armor on yourself at will, without
expending a spell slot or material components."

If I read this (and similar EIs) correctly, I can treat Mage Armor (and similar spells from other EIs) as being a cantrip in all but name?

Just want to be sure I understand it correctly

[nickl_2000]

You can cast it over and over again every round if you like, but it isn't a cantrip.

It couldn't be cast in the same round as you cast another non-cantrip spell, nor could it be cast by the EK ability.

[samcifer]

You can cast it over and over again every round if you like, but it isn't a cantrip.

It couldn't be cast in the same round as you cast another non-cantrip spell, nor could it be cast by the EK ability.

So does casting it count as a bonus action or a standard action? Since you seem to say it can be cast during the same turn as a cantrip spell, it sounds like a leveled spell cast as a bonus action.

[Millstone85]

So does casting it count as a bonus action or a standard action?A standard action.


it sounds like a leveled spellIt is cast as a level 1 spell.

Another way it is not a cantrip, which would be level 0.

[samcifer]

A standard action.

It is cast as a level 1 spell.

Another way it is not a cantrip, which would be level 0.

Okay, but it can be used as much as you want like a cantrip (and no more than once per turn).

[Millstone85]

Okay, but it can be used as much as you want like a cantrip (and no more than once per turn).Yes, it is functionally a cantrip. It is just not a cantrip for any feature, spell or whatever that refers to a cantrip.

[Tanarii]

Are you expecting to have it Dispelled, followed by a Counterspell of your recasting? :smallamused:
Or is there some shenanigans I'm missing here?

[samcifer]

Are you expecting to have it Dispelled, followed by a Counterspell of your recasting? :smallamused:
Or is there some shenanigans I'm missing here?

I just want to be clear on how it functions as far as the 'Cast ... on yourself at will' part works as to when, how often you cast it as well as what type of action it qualifies as.

[Millstone85]

Are you expecting to have it Dispelled, followed by a Counterspell of your recasting? :smallamused:I don't see the connection.

[Tanarii]

I just want to be clear on how it functions as far as the 'Cast ... on yourself at will' part works as to when, how often you cast it as well as what type of action it qualifies as.Fair enough.


I don't see the connection.
Even though it's "at-will", there aren't going to be that many times you'll be casting it round after round. The obvious one is it gets Dispelled. I was wondering what else is out there that I was missing that was making this necessary to ask how often you could cast it. ;)

[Cap'm Bubbles]

So in the PHB in the Warlock section, specifically the Eldritch Invocations, Armor of Shadows reads:

"You can cast mage armor on yourself at will, without
expending a spell slot or material components."

If I read this (and similar EIs) correctly, I can treat Mage Armor (and similar spells from other EIs) as being a cantrip in all but name?

Just want to be sure I understand it correctly

"At Will" means that it can be done as it normally would in the action economy (Mage Armor is a standard action) without expending any resources (spell slots or assorted x/rest resources). Any other interpretation runs into serious issues when the same phrase is used to describe spells available to creatures in the Monster Manual.

In the case of Mage Armor, its duration is 8 hours. Cast it when you go to bed (there's no written penalty for sleeping in armor), cast it when you wake up, and cast it at some intermediate point in the day so it doesn't go out before you want it to. There is almost no reason to actually cast Mage Armor during combat if it is possible to cast it out of combat.
There are only two cases otherwise.
One, if your Mage Armor is dispelled by an effect or spell in or out of combat.
Two, keep it off if you do not want to present yourself as a mage outside of combat. Perhaps a particular NPC hates mages and you wish to withhold that information for a bit. Whatever.

[Millstone85]

Even though it's "at-will", there aren't going to be that many times you'll be casting it round after round. The obvious one is it gets Dispelled. I was wondering what else is out there that I was missing that was making this necessary to ask how often you could cast it. ;)Ah okay. I was worried about some weird interpretation that would make cantrips non-dispellable or something.

[Tanarii]

Two, keep it off if you do not want to present yourself as a mage outside of combat. Perhaps a particular NPC hates mages and you wish to withhold that information for a bit. Whatever.Or, y'know, just decide that the spell isn't visible. Nothing says it is.

Now if said NPC has a Cleric hireling that Detect Magics all visitors ...

[CaptainSarathai]

Or, y'know, just decide that the spell isn't visible. Nothing says it is.

Now if said NPC has a Cleric hireling that Detect Magics all visitors ...

5' square Anti Magic Zone right inside the doorway will do it.
"Please remove all weapons, holy symbols, foci - and oh yeah, you'll find that any spells you've brought with you have ended"

I had a DM do that to my Warlock at one point (entire room was AMZ) and dropped me. It caused us to have some.... words. Warlocks more or less rely on Armor of Shadows for their defense. Take that away, and they're squishier than the d*mn Rogue.

[JellyPooga]

I had a DM do that to my Warlock at one point (entire room was AMZ) and dropped me. It caused us to have some.... words. Warlocks more or less rely on Armor of Shadows for their defense. Take that away, and they're squishier than the d*mn Rogue.

A smart Warlock wears armour as well...

[Millstone85]

A smart Warlock wears armour as well...The mage armor spell requires a target that isn't wearing armor. The invocation doesn't change that.

[Asmotherion]

Well, since you put it this way...

You can cast the Mage Armor at the same rate as you could cast a cantrip, wich is at-will, aka every turn or every 6 seconds per day, all day long, yes, but with a few exceptions; You cannot cast Mage Armor and an other Leveled Spell in the same turn, as specific rules of spellcasting (PHB, Page 202, Under Bonus Action) say you can't (even if the other spell is a bonus action spell). You can howeven cast Mage Armor and a Cantrip if one of the two are somehow cast as a bonus action (such as a Sorcerer's Quicken metamagic).

Admitinglly this is rather unapealing on a Spell with an 8-hour duration, yet some creative ideas have been proposed. Some DMs allow those ideas, others don't. Discuss it with your Dm if you want it to pull something like this, unless you want to be stuck with it, and unable to use your trick.


A smart Warlock wears armour as well...

A smart Warlock invests in Dexterity as a secondary stat for a bonus to AC in order not to wear Armour and rely on Mage Armour then? :P

[PeteNutButter]

An abjurer with two levels in warlock can use the invocation to recharge his abjuration ward for 2 points every 6 seconds, a much more time efficient way to recharge it compared to ritualling alarm. It is a bit MAD, but also brings AoA, which synergies very well with the ward.

This is something you couldn't do with a cantrip, as the ward requires a leveled spell.