Iron Caster - earliest entry?

[SpamCreateWater]

So the Iron Caster (https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/4q1yi0/turn_your_fighter_into_a_caster_by_using_advanced/) runs off the idea of using the Brawler's Martial Flexibility class feature to gain Advanced Weapon Training (Item Mastery) for versatility and faux-casting.

The earliest I've seen people say you can do this is level 5 - Weapon Master 4, Brawler 1.
My question is: Is there some reason it cannot be done with Weapon Master 3, Brawler 1?

Weapon Master 3 gives you Weapon Training.
Because you're a Weapon Master, Advanced Weapon Training is allowed at level 4.
Brawler levels count as Fighter levels for feat prerequisites.

Am I missing something?

[Florian]

Am I missing something?

The relevant item mastery feats have a prerequisite of Fort +6 (Curse, Flight, Teleportation +6, Telekinetic even +7).

It´s also the entry into the ever-so-lovelly Sanguine Angel PrC, which is perfect for an Iron Caster build: You regain full Armor Training for the Weapon Master, advance Weapon Training (Heavy Blades) and gain Onslaught, qualifying for the Raging Vitality feat, a cheap way to raise the DC for offensive SLAs on a Con-based caster.

[SpamCreateWater]

No. However, the (usually) more relevant abilities have a Fort Save prerequisite higher than +5 - which is what you'd have.

Fixed that for you.

Now irrelevant as updated information.

[Kurald Galain]

Am I missing something?

Apparently it's RAI that the fort save has to come from a single class. In PFS this is an explicit restriction. May or may not be relevant depending on who you're playing with.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

The relevant item mastery feats have a prerequisite of Fort +6 (Curse, Flight, Teleportation +6, Telekinetic even +7).

It´s also the entry into the ever-so-lovelly Sanguine Angel PrC, which is perfect for an Iron Caster build: You regain full Armor Training for the Weapon Master, advance Weapon Training (Heavy Blades) and gain Onslaught, qualifying for the Raging Vitality feat, a cheap way to raise the DC for offensive SLAs on a Con-based caster.

Hmm, Fighter{Weapon Master) 4/Brawler{Exemplar) 6/Sanguine Angel 10 sounds like a pretty solid Iron Caster build.

[SpamCreateWater]

The relevant item mastery feats have a prerequisite of Fort +6 (Curse, Flight, Teleportation +6, Telekinetic even +7).

It´s also the entry into the ever-so-lovelly Sanguine Angel PrC, which is perfect for an Iron Caster build: You regain full Armor Training for the Weapon Master, advance Weapon Training (Heavy Blades) and gain Onslaught, qualifying for the Raging Vitality feat, a cheap way to raise the DC for offensive SLAs on a Con-based caster.

I was not aware of that PrC. I'll make a note to read up on it, thanks :smallsmile:


Apparently it's RAI that the fort save has to come from a single class. In PFS this is an explicit restriction. May or may not be relevant depending on who you're playing with.

:smallsigh: Of course it is. Luckily I'm not playing PFS, so this should not be a problem.


Hmm, Fighter{Weapon Master) 4/Brawler{Exemplar) 6/Sanguine Angel 10 sounds like a pretty solid Iron Caster build.

Totally forgot about Exemplar. I really want to use that archetype as some stage.

[Florian]

Hmm, Fighter{Weapon Master) 4/Brawler{Exemplar) 6/Sanguine Angel 10 sounds like a pretty solid Iron Caster build.

Hm... That´s a case of "in theory", as you´ll want to enter the PrC asap. I´d actually go Brawler 2/Barbarian (Dreadnaught) 1 (For Raging Vitality as 3rd level feat)/Fighter (Weapon Master ) 1-3 (For Weapon Training I - Heavy Blades)/ Barbarian (Dreadnaught) 2 (For Rage Power)/ Sanguine Angel 1-9 (For Heavy Blades II - III)/Barbarian (Dreadnaught) 3-6.
I´m quite skeptical about taking the 10th level as Angel of Eiseth actually transforms you into a non-native outsider, which can have some serious drawbacks, depending on the gm (starts with a simple Magic Circle and ends with being vulnerable to Planar Binding and Banishment).
Using the Dreadnaught levels opens up rage powers (and the Extra Rage Power feat) to go for Superstitious / Witchkiller / Spellsunder / Eater Of Magic, enabling the Iron Caster to not only cast spells, but to counter them.

Edit: That´ll also give Dominate Person and True Seeing (Eye of Mahathallah and Restoration Mastery are a great match) beyond what is possible with item mastery feats, now the only thing left is reworking a Do-Maru of Broken Flesh into a Grey Maiden Plate (Again Restoration Mastery).

[Dr_Dinosaur]

I hadn't considered dipping Barbarian, but my intent was to go Weapon Master 4/Brawler 1 into Sanguine Angel 10, then finish up with Brawler 2-6 after running out of SA levels

[The Random NPC]

You don't actually need Brawler if you take the Barroom Brawler feat and use Abundant Tactics, or use Warrior Spirit to add the Training enchantment. Though Brawler does get to flex feats as a Swift action, your level plan puts that at 20th level.

[SpamCreateWater]

You don't actually need Brawler if you take the Barroom Brawler feat and use Abundant Tactics, or use Warrior Spirit to add the Training enchantment. Though Brawler does get to flex feats as a Swift action, your level plan puts that at 20th level.

Aye. Brawler gets Swift Action Martial Flexibility at 6th. You can also use the Combat Stamina rules for Swift Action Martial Flexibility.



If you were expecting a campaign to finish at 11, perhaps 1 or 2 levels after that, what would your build look like?

I, personally, would prefer less loss of versatility; so would end up going Lore Warden or Eldritch Guardian. (As an aside, how does Share Training interact with Advanced Weapon Training: Item Mastery? Can your familiar use the Item Mastery feats because it was gain via a combat feat they can use?)
Still stuck on whether I would take Brawler 6. We don't use the Combat Stamina rules, unfortunately, so Brawler 6 is the only way I can get Martial Flexibility to a Swift Action.
Would you even consider dipping ~2 levels for Occultist and grabbing the Implement Mastery feat to gain an extra use or 3 on your Item Mastery feat uses?

[Florian]

You don't actually need Brawler if you take the Barroom Brawler feat and use Abundant Tactics, or use Warrior Spirit to add the Training enchantment. Though Brawler does get to flex feats as a Swift action, your level plan puts that at 20th level.

Technically correct, but misses an important point: It´s not so much about the Brawler class, but more about multiclassing itself for the Fort save requirement. Staying single class has the marked drawback that the really interesting stuff only comes online at 8th and 10th level, which is lagging behind a Wizard, especially when it concerns flight mastery.

@SpamCreateWater:

Depends a bit on the campaign and what you´re allowed to play, how mobile you´ve got to be, etc.
Personally, I´d build around TWF Sword and Board, as this is where Fighters really shine. Exact details will depend on whether the aforementioned Sanguine Angel is an option or not, to drop the Dex-requirement for the TWF-based feats.

For race, I´d go with a Fetchling for the racial SLAs and the Shadow Walker feat, opening up the the Dimensional feats for later, especially Dimensional Step Up, and recharging it with the Racial Item Mastery feat.

Occultist (Panoply Master) 4 with the Trapping of the Warrior is a rather strong component as the base focus power doesn´t prevent you from picking up Barroom Brawler, you gain Enlarge Person as a spell and the Counterstrike focus power is pretty unique. Using the Legacy Weapon focus power is a neat but costly way to add the "Training" enhancement, so Extra Mental Focus is a must-have feat.

On the Fighter side, I´d actually stick to the Weapon Master archetype. Using the "Mastering" enhancement on a shield will make it shield bash/slam use the same weapon mastery values as the main weapon. This can be done using the Aegis focus power, if necessary. A rather weird thing to keep in mind is how the "Mastering" enhancement works with the close weapons group: It then duplicates WepFoc/WepSpec feats for the shield, freeing up feat slots. That´s not unimportant considering how "Versatile Design" interacts with the Weapon Master archetype.