Dwarven Warlock/Fighter

[ealan]

So I died, yes we all do it. My former character was our healer but as game play progress we gain sufficiant new members to completely forget I could heal. My DM gave me the option of starting a lvl 6 character off the bat and joining the party, or joining a new campaign which may not start for a bit. The remaining party is around lvl 10 and I have to come up with something to contend in that environment. I rolled random for a Dwarf as race just to add flare to this character knowing I wanted to make a Warlock. My stats at lvl 6 are as follows Str 16 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 and a Cha 14. It is not so bad a Dwarven Warlock with decent Str middle Cha and Con. For a Warlock I have a really bad chance with the 12 Dex. So looking into options I found the Hideous Blow Invocation and decided to go for a Melee oriented Warlock. I took a lvl of Warlock the a level of Dwarven Fighter out of Races of Stone and the a level of normal fighter then 3 more levels of Warlock. So I have a Dwarven Warlock 4/Fighter 2 that specializes in Axes because of his Dwarven Fighter lvl and Axe Focus (weapon focus with all axes). With Battle Caster feat he wears a Breastplate, hoping for some Mithral Full Plate somewhere along the way. Combat Casting to help with the Melee Concentration Checks, and then on with Power Attack and Cleave. For invocations I have as stated Hideous Blow, extra 2d6 of dmg to melee attack right now and Devil's Sight and Darkness making me a formitable solo adventurer when needed. With only 50 HP I do feel I am behind the party a bit and only standard non-magical equipment to choose from I feel I may be playing into a death trap but I can always cast Darkness in combat and fight away. The character was required to be good and took a Chaotic good alignment and will save himself if absolutly needed but will join the Good party. What should I do to keep him alive he just feels frail, with 16 AC when the party averages around 22-25 and half as many HP and no where near as good saves. I am hoping for some equipment from the party to suppliment my character and he should stand in combat. But before he hits the floor are there any suggestions?

[skywalker]

My advice, don't play an ECL 6 character in an ECL 10 campaign. It sucks you can't have any magical equipment because at level 6 you should have a fair amount of loot already. Seems like a recipe for disaster(IE you'll be back in a couple weeks talking about how your dwarven warlock died.) Your AC is on the low side even for a level 6 character, not to mention for level 10, and you're probably not going to have much fun going into melee against CR 10 monsters. So I say either convince your DM to let you come in at higher level(and convince him to let you have magic items) or wait for the new campaign. It's the best way to avoid having this guy die.

[slexlollar89]

odd race, but hey, it works...

if you are allowed the dragon magic supplement take eldritch glaive (2) least invocation: your blast becomes a glaive that you can do full atks with! also, they are TOUCH ATTACKS!!! i made a spellscale warlock in the military. my specialty was sniping and killing heavy armored opponents.

[ealan]

Well considering dragon magic is allowed that is possible but the melee dmg of a great axe is a nice addition to using hideous blow and I think I will keep to it. On the other hand no magic items is fine, the DM just doesn't want a new chara adding more loot to the party so he expects the party to hand a bit over to new characters. Entering in at a lower level is an issue we have had a few lower level characters enter and if they stay alive long enough catch up to the party. Thus survival is an issue. Is it possible? I don't know considering I know what my character will walk into next session and I am not building to survive it but enjoy a character I just fear that he will be unable to stand with the party. I sm not on the other hand waiting for a new campaign we don't have consistancy with any of them except this one.

[SurlySeraph]

Those are pretty bad stats for a Warlock - high Charisma and Dexterity are crucial - but taking levels in fighter means you should be able to survive at least for a little while. Take some invocations that'll improve your survivability, like Dark One's Own Luck, and whatever-it's-called, the one that gives you Greater Invisibility. Take The Dead Walk so you can use a skeleton as a meat shield while you focus on dealing damage.

[PinkysBrain]

Personally if my DM gave me that option I'd just pile on enough cheese to be able to help the party ... from hiding.

Not a melee character which multiclasses very poorly. You won't be able to put a dent in a stick of butter and you are just going to die again.

[skywalker]

So what exactly are you asking for?

One question I have is what sort of character were those others who survived to catch up?

IMNSHO, an upfront damage dealer with a sub-par armor class for level 6 should not be in the front line against CR 10 monsters.

What sorts of combat situations are you usually in?


EDIT: Pinkysbrain, I thought you were a fighter, not a ninja? :smallbiggrin:

[ealan]

So yes I know this is not a great multi class considering it isn't a a chara that would be melee. But by the dm you roll stats in order this is what I got. The rest of the party is currently a lvl 9 human cleric, lvl 9 human palidin joined us at the same time. A lvl 10 dwarven fighter, cleric and a lvl 11 sorc race now unknown. We currently have an odd assembly of odd skow ups all that are rogues ranging from lvl 8 to 10.
After talking with my dm I am expecting to get a bump up to around 25 AC with mithral full plate, ring pro +3, ring pro +2 and bracers of arm +? Putting me at a decent AC and our primary fighting is done underground against larger amounts of CR 5-7 stuff. Putting me able to hopefully fight. Do you think I will make it or what should I do or should I toss it and start over?

[skywalker]

Now with AC 25 you're cooking with gas. Note that bracers of armor normally don't stack with armor, since both provide an armor bonus to AC. Also, the bonus from 2 rings of protection don't stack either, since they're both deflection bonuses. However, with full plate and a ring of protection +3, your AC should be 23, which is more in line with what it should be.

Also, if you're fighting mainly large numbers of stuff that's a CR of your level, you should be able to do a normal amount of damage, just make sure you don't get mobbed, or have a contingency plan for when you do.

In this case, though, I think you'll be pretty good, as long as you're fighting CR 5-7 stuff and you make sure you don't get mobbed.

You're good. Make a go of it. Just don't get in over your head, or bite off more than you can chew.

[ealan]

So after all this a fun meeting with my dm, he has had me reroll stats cause I only got 3d6 and everyone including my old chara got 4d6 and I got to assign my stats. So now we have a 12str 16dex 18con 10int 11wis and 15cha. Still dwarf with the mods I lost on cha but I do have a nice con and dex now and can focus more on a real warlock. He asked me to keep the battle caster feat and pick up the mithral full plate, so I did take 1 level in dwarven fighter to pick up prof in med armor and martial weapons and the axe focus abil and a nice d12 in HP. We have run in to anti magic probably 4 times making the decision in a melee weapon not so bad. Granted my pitiful dwarf will walk on with his armor and no weapons the party will hopefully provide. I am keeping devil's sight and darkness but wondering on hideous blow now, is it worth having over something like spiderwalk? Expecially when I will get fell flight or flee the scene next level. With the promise of the eing pro +3 now BC my dm came up with the same issue after talking and a possible amulet nat armor +2 putting me at a nice 26 AC and then a force shield ring giving me anothe +2 I almost best my party on AC at 28. So I picked up point blank shot, precise shot and battle caster as feats. I know I am able to stand in combat with my AC and fight but I am push at a nice ranged/heavy armor chara atm, and it almost seems as though I should burst the chara into melee, a great axe weilding dealing a d12+3d6 doesn't look so bad and at later levels using elfritch doom(affects all enemies in 20 feet with eldritch blast) and being able to dish out a blow and take a few... I am not sure now. I could even swap the str and dex but why? A good dex may just be what the chara really needs. It is a bit confusing after the changes.

[illathid]

I believe that your biggest problem is going to be that you will be provoking a ridiculous number of Attacks of Opportunity. Hideous Blow will provoke a AoO every time that it is used, and with your low hit points it means you'll be even worse off.

[skywalker]

I believe that your biggest problem is going to be that you will be provoking a ridiculous number of Attacks of Opportunity. Hideous Blow will provoke a AoO every time that it is used, and with your low hit points it means you'll be even worse off.


He's gonna combat cast it.

[ealan]

He's gonna combat cast it.

This may be the deciding factor my current concentration is a +12 if I drop my precise shot feat and take combat casting I can melee with hideous blow at a +16 concentration and not worry. But give up ranged combat isn't so bad considering it is a touch I could easily take that chance.

[ealan]

And really my HP is not so bad if I had perfect rools if have 66 HP. I have 58

[illathid]

Well the DC is 16 to use Hideous Blow defensively, if he doesn't add any Eldritch Essences. With his low Intelligence and 2 skill points a level, if he doesn't dump all his skills into concentration there'll be quite times when he'll lose his action due to bad rolls. That's almost worse than taking an AoO. :smalleek:

EDIT:

This may be the deciding factor my current concentration is a +12 if I drop my precise shot feat and take combat casting I can melee with hideous blow at a +16 concentration and not worry. But give up ranged combat isn't so bad considering it is a touch I could easily take that chance.

If your going to give up a feat for a boost to concentration, take Skill Focus instead. It's a static +3 to your check instead of a +4 that only applies sometimes.

[skywalker]

Well the DC is 16 to use Hideous Blow defensively, if he doesn't add any Eldritch Essences. With his low Intelligence and 2 skill points a level, if he doesn't dump all his skills into concentration(snipped)

Well, since it's pretty much a straight-melee idea, I can't see anything better for him to put ranks in. With 7 ranks in concentration, a +2 con bonus, and skill focus(concentration) you get +12 to concentration checks, with combat casting, +13.


I totally agree with you about taking skill focus instead of combat casting.

I think, actually, it will be better for him to lose the action than to take the attack, due to the previously mentioned low HP. It sounds like he's primarily looking to have fun and stay alive, in that order, but *stay alive* seems to be coming before *deal damage* from what I can tell.

EDIT: How are you getting such a high concentration check before combat casting?

[ealan]

You have point and a +15 will give me the room I need and more to roll anything but a 1 wow really who ever wants to roll one. Yes I have very little place to drop skill points but there isn't much room anyways and I don't have to cover much, a point a piece in the trained skills so I can use them, a few extra in use magic device for the decieve item. And then there is the fact of spellcraft which almost every party member excluding the other dwarf, the party leader, would beat me at anyways. My skills don't concern just my concentration

Edit
Because of new stats given by the dm my constitution is 18 and I took 5 lvla of warlock instead of 4 and only 1 in dwarven fighter

[skywalker]

I see. This makes much more sense.

As an aside, I don't mean this as an insult, just as advice, is English not your first language? Or are you just typing really fast? Either way, I(and probably most other board members) would prefer that you slow down a little bit and review what your posts say a little more, edit them for clarity, etc, because it makes you much easier to understand and help.

Sorry if that came off as elitist or snobby. It's just advice.

[ealan]

Accually I am on a handheld blackberry due to the loss of internet in the area... So the typing may be due to the fact that it doesn't exactly understand and tries to correct me while I am not paying attention.

But with a concentration check of +15 I should be in the clear for most of my invocations in combat for the moment.

[skywalker]

I see.


And yes, you should. Any other questions?

[ealan]

No I am quite happy. Thank you for your time and input.

[Pestlepup]

This may not be of any relevance anymore, but Fell Flight or Flee the Scene does not make Spider Climb redundant. Trailing wings of darkness are a bit conspicuous at times, not to mention flying in cramped spaces is tricky at best. If something, they complement each other. Besides, with Spider Climb you can hold a position practically indefinitely. You might be able to hover with Fell Flight, but I can't remember what manouverability it granted...

[ealan]

Considering the good alignment of the chara you are right and I asked my dm early on about this and he replied that with a celestial backround all visual effects would net be the same. But you are right there are times when being able to stand on a ceiling may just be a run away tactic that works and keeps me in combat but of the 3 movements I will be able to use as of next level flee the scene seems best buy spiderwalk seems like it may work out better, even having both would be good. Possible teleport to ceiling leaving a major image on the ground for one round. Even replacing the darkness invocation as my run plan concidering it only grants like 50% concelment.

[ealan]

So this character hit the table the other night and started off being early enough to solo into the campaign when he got joined by another player, who is new. The new character got to start at 9th level while me at 6 and first thing first, the hazing of the new person, I agreed to submit my character to this process for fun. And bam CR 15 troll comes up against us. I was gone in 4 rounds no chance me lvl 6 and him unable to touch it I did my share and hit for around 40 dmg. So dm decides I need at least level 7 and I level up and he tells us we are now actually going to start. We end up in the grasp of a CR 12 troll. I survive after taking a slight beating and using flee the scene to fight the troll with images as distractions. The invocation is awesome, dimension door 40 ft as a standard action leaving a target for the enemy behind. The troll ran and I get a 1000 XP ish. So wow this guys character sucks and we know it, help him tweak it and he rejoins me and on to find the party, which only 1 person had shown up and was leaving early, just enjoying the show more or less, come to find out the rest of the party won't be coming. So one more encounter and it will be a night. So CR 5 manticore fun. My ally is down unconsious in 5 rounds and I am playing hit and run and finally take it down, gaining 500 more XP for my self and 400 for this pathetic guy, playing a human duelist... Flee the scene made the character I was playing a stand alone character till someone makes his int check or a spellcraft check is made, but I can survive and I am a decent combatant, using baleful utterance on the second encounter to rid myself of the ranged threat of a javelin and teleporting behind the enemy and next round hideous blow or teleporting into a tree and using spiderwalk to stand on the side and elfritch blast from above. Major image from flee the scene gives the enemy a target to keep them away from me for the round. It came in as a very workable character, just worrying about mobs and being underground cause that is common for this dm...

[Starbuck_II]

So this character hit the table the other night and started off being early enough to solo into the campaign when he got joined by another player, who is new. The new character got to start at 9th level while me at 6 and first thing first, the hazing of the new person, I agreed to submit my character to this process for fun. And bam CR 15 troll comes up against us. I was gone in 4 rounds no chance me lvl 6 and him unable to touch it I did my share and hit for around 40 dmg.

CR 15? The party is only Level 10... CR 15?! You mean CR 12?

Anyway, for CR 10 encounters: you should aim for AC: 15 + 1.5 (10) so 30 AC to not be hit often. Less means hit easier.
CR 6 only needs 24 AC will be needed.


So dm decides I need at least level 7 and I level up and he tells us we are now actually going to start. We end up in the grasp of a CR 12 troll. I survive after taking a slight beating and using flee the scene to fight the troll with images as distractions. The invocation is awesome, dimension door 40 ft as a standard action leaving a target for the enemy behind. The troll ran and I get a 1000 XP ish.

Why did troll run instead of attack the image over and over?
Anyway, yeah Flee the Scene is a nice one.


Major image from flee the scene gives the enemy a target to keep them away from me for the round. It came in as a very workable character, just worrying about mobs and being underground cause that is common for this dm...

Well, glad it worked out.

[ealan]

The word "hazing" my clear up the CR 15 stuff for you. And the fact that my AC that night was only 18. The dm likes to beak in new characters. No one builds around having equipment because you have none. He handed me a breast plate an dwarven waraxe and said have fun. The hand out of a level because he realizes that there is no way I am going to survive the next 3 sessions considering 2 will be low XP and the 3rd is the climax of the party quest, some dragon that we have been looking for now for 9 months... And truthfully we know that we aren't ready but our characters are still walking straight into it. Our dm just makes his preferences of the game fun. And if he realizes it isn't fair or he humped someone he tries fixing it.