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Tinkerer
2017-09-06, 05:25 PM
Good day all :smallsmile:

I was talking to someone about experience point systems the other day and I was wondering how many people are using a unique style of system.

I can't really say that the traditional "kill monsters, get exp" ever really worked for me due to some odd implications such as a thief only being able to get good at stealing by fighting monsters. The earlier model of "get treasure, get exp" seemed to make more sense however again we run into problems with things such as a soldier fighting a war not getting any better at soldiering. Also because I could just imagine a prince standing by his fathers deathbed. "Son, I'm about to die. When I do so you will have the contents of the royal treasury and lordship over the kingdom. Gasp, croak, die." Upon that happening the young prince instantly puts on 30 kilos of muscle and can cast 3rd level spells because of course the brat is a gish.

In my youth I switched over to the Palladium system of exp (just the exp mechanic) where it is rewarded based on good planning, saving lives, self sacrifice, combat for a purpose, role playing, and using skills (almost in that order) however this system obviously tends to reward good characters far more than evil ones. Not that I minded that so much since evil characters tend to wind up with more gear and money so it served as a kind of balance. That system kind of wore thin for a number of reasons, but it was great at recording the characters noteworthy deeds for later.

Nowadays I have players who are good at recording their own deeds so I tend to break things down into a very simple checklist type system. When running Savage Worlds or WoD I tend to use:

1 point for showing up on time
1 point for accomplishing the goal of the session
1 point for measurably exceeding the goal of session, usually accomplishing 2 sessions worth in one session

1 bonus point if it's their turn to deliver the recap and they do so adequately
Some number of bonus points if they end a plot line (usually 1-2)

For D&D and other large point systems I tend to:

Assign an experience point cost to the general task rather than to the specific monster. If the group is wanting to get inside a castle then they will usually get the same amount if they sneak in as if they storm the gates. I then assign bonuses as shown below.

+25% for showing up on time
+10% if it's your turn to deliver the recap and you do so adequately
+5% for delivering on your characters premise such as the greedy character being greedy, the fame seeker spreading their name etc... this is kept low so that players don't feel they have to squeeze it in somewhere it doesn't belong but significant enough that they do so when appropriate
+3% for being the main chronicler
+5-100% based on the execution but it must be impressive. For instance if a group is of too low of a level to face a dragon and I'm fully expecting them to sneak around it. It turns out they engage and (somehow) kill the dragon then bravo and mad props! +100% experience for you. It most likely isn't as much as you would have gotten if the dragon was actually there to be engaged though. This helps to avoid things like the characters advancing 6 levels because they managed to wipe out an army by drowning them which I find to be entirely unrealistic.

So do you use a unique exp system? I'd love to hear about it because I enjoy switching things up on this front every few years to encourage different styles of play.

Altair_the_Vexed
2017-09-07, 03:37 AM
We all level up when the group agrees we all level up.

(We're playing Pathfinder, but any D&Dish game with levels works for this example.)

We rotate GMs in our group, each player running an adventure in our shared world of no more than a few sessions each, then on to the next GM. We all play our PCs in each other's game, but generally don't NPC our PC in our own adventure.

At low levels, we levelled up after each GM had taken a turn. In the mid levels, it's after two turns for each GM. At higher levels, we'll look at longer levelling - but it's all by mutual agreement.

Anonymouswizard
2017-09-07, 03:51 AM
I prefer low XP systems, as well as 'spend XP on attributes and skills', so that defines how I award XP.

First off, I'm a supporter of milestone advancement. D&D is really bad for this, as levels measure all power, but the idea is that you might get something minor at the end of the session (say 1XP or the ability to reshuffle skill points slightly), but when you complete a session with a significant plot point you get a decent boost (say a bunch of skill points), and when you complete a session with a major plot point you get a major boost (say an attribute point or feat plus a bunch of skill points).

I rarely use it however, just because it gives less control over how fast PCs grow (sounds strange, but it can be hard to know if the PCs are going to spend this session investigating leads or searching for supplies). I instead like to use XP/session.

Now the amount I'll use varies, but like my university GM I tend towards a model of 'YXP per session with an extra XP being given for any player roleplaying well or completing a major objective'. I like players to be able to increase a skill every session or two, so in a game like Keltia I might give 5XP as the base, while in M&M or GURPS I might only give 1PP/CP as a base. This gives a constant advancement that doesn't require the players to do any particular actions to get XP, allows them to put points where they think is reasonable, and keeps advancement relatively level.

Frozen_Feet
2017-09-07, 08:12 AM
As I primarily play OSR type games, fighting monsters only gives incidental XP. Majority of XP comes from treasure recovered. I occasionally hand out rewards for stuff like travelled distance, visiting new places, gaining allies or achieving mission objectives. (For one campaign all objectives were player set. I concluded that was not such a good idea because I had to repeatedly stop my players from trying to game the system.)

Red Fel
2017-09-07, 10:10 AM
I generally prefer encounter-based XP to kill-based XP. That is, when the party faces a challenge - whether it's a monster, a trap, a heist, or an awkward holiday dinner with family - and overcomes it, the party collectively gets XP, irrespective of the individual contributions of any given member. That's because some people contribute differently in different scenarios - the burly fighter will have the advantage when battling monsters, the clever thief will have an Ocean's 11 plan for stealing the diamond, and the charming con artist will know the best way to keep grandma away from her liquor during dessert. As a result, yes, in some encounters, some party members will "carry," and others will be "carried."

Now, if a party member consistently fails to contribute to any scenario, and is basically riding the wave of the party's success, that's a matter for the players to hash out. I'm not going to impose in-character XP penalties for what is likely an out-of-character problem.

Do I award bonus XP for various things? Potentially, but rarely, and it depends on the table's composition. If I'm looking at a bunch of veteran players who know and trust one another, I might award roleplaying XP or "coolness" XP. Everyone's on the same level of play, so everyone can be awesome in their own idiom, should they choose to be. But at a table with a mix of new and old players, I don't want to unduly favor the veteran by giving out RP or coolness XP; that will probably incentivize the veteran to outshine the newbies, and nobody wants that. Likewise, if the table is entirely new or newer players, or there isn't a level of trust and familiarity there, it might turn into a competition - and again, nobody wants that.

So usually, my XP awards are flat and across the board, based on encounters overcome by the party. I may modify the award based on difficulty, but I certainly won't penalize a creative work-around.

Slipperychicken
2017-09-07, 10:46 AM
I like how shadowrun does it. It was per-mission and went something like this: You get 2 for surviving the mission (win or lose), 1 for achieving the goal, another 1 for doing it exceptionally well, another +1-4 for doing something really hard (i.e. facing a very high opposed diepool), 1 for facing one of the scariest things in the setting, +1-2 for winning a fight despite being greatly outnumbered (i.e. three-to-one or four-to-one), and you get -2 if it's a mission that makes you feel like an immoral monster for taking it (such as assassinating someone who doesn't really deserve death, or otherwise making the world a worse place).

SirBellias
2017-09-07, 10:54 AM
The only time I've changed from what the book says is when I run D&D. I've started having them level up at major landmarks.

For Monster of the Week and Monsterhearts, I just do them as is. It works pretty well.

GungHo
2017-09-07, 10:55 AM
"Feels like".

It feels like you guys should have gained a level by now.

Telonius
2017-09-07, 11:14 AM
We've been using an XP-less 3.5 campaign for 6 levels or so now, and it seems to be working pretty well. (Item crafters like my Cleric use the 5gp = 1xp conversion rate). Level-up points are plot-based.

Knaight
2017-09-07, 11:23 AM
I usually just do flat experience per session. With that said, there are system specific variations a lot, including fiddling with Fudge pretty often to make different experience systems based on costs. There's also one game I ran which had a pretty conventional points per session structure, but where the experience points were secondary to location based improvements - because the game was about the discovery and dissemination of magic by the PCs, and the way they got that was from physically reaching particular extremely inhospitable sites. It was a noun-verb magic system too, where every site had three options (1-2 nouns, 1-2 verbs) and the PCs got two, so particularly in the late game each site was worth a lot.

Tinkerer
2017-09-07, 12:38 PM
Neat, so it sounds like XP free systems are quite popular right now. I... can't really say that I can get behind those at my table. I mean it makes a lot of sense and it's great that it works out for you but I think it's too critical of an end game wind down for me. You hand out XP, you go over any questions which players had which they didn't want to interrupt the flow for, go over any rulings which seemed odd, some people fly out the door because you went an hour late etc... Plus I really like having the punctuality reward in there. Oh, I forgot to mention before that the punctuality bonus exp is awarded based on when YOU said you could show up not based on when the game starts.

I think I have the start of my next system worked out from some of the ideas here though.

Red Fel
2017-09-07, 12:57 PM
Plus I really like having the punctuality reward in there. Oh, I forgot to mention before that the punctuality bonus exp is awarded based on when YOU said you could show up not based on when the game starts.

See, punctuality rewards bother me for several reasons.

First, because it's an in-character reward for out-of-character conduct. It's like giving an XP bonus for buying the DM pizza. That kind of thing rubs me wrong.

Second, it doesn't take into account things like commute. If I say I'll be there at 5, and then traffic goes insane, and I show up at 5:30, yeah, maybe I should have prepared and left home earlier, but it's not entirely my fault. Whereas your neighbor who games will always get the punctuality reward, and that will probably bother me at some point. (Also, easy cheat - say I'm getting there way later than I might, and guarantee that my arrival is timely.)

And third, it kind of says a lot about your table if you feel you have to bribe the players to get them to show up on time. If your table doesn't have an attendance problem, it's basically just free XP for everyone; if they do, it should probably be addressed. Not that "games are serious business," but if players consistently fail to respect the time investment made by other players or the DM, that's a problem that needs to be addressed by conversation, not by imaginary rewards in a fictional game, isn't it?

Friv
2017-09-07, 12:59 PM
I'm a fan of mixing session-based XP with failure-based XP. Everyone gets some XP at the end of the session, and rolling disastrous results that make the situation worse give you some XP as a consolation prize. It tends to even out - people who succeed a lot affect the plot through success, and people who fail a lot get the skills they need to stop failing in the future.

Tinkerer
2017-09-07, 01:34 PM
See, punctuality rewards bother me for several reasons.

First, because it's an in-character reward for out-of-character conduct. It's like giving an XP bonus for buying the DM pizza. That kind of thing rubs me wrong.

Second, it doesn't take into account things like commute. If I say I'll be there at 5, and then traffic goes insane, and I show up at 5:30, yeah, maybe I should have prepared and left home earlier, but it's not entirely my fault. Whereas your neighbor who games will always get the punctuality reward, and that will probably bother me at some point. (Also, easy cheat - say I'm getting there way later than I might, and guarantee that my arrival is timely.)

And third, it kind of says a lot about your table if you feel you have to bribe the players to get them to show up on time. If your table doesn't have an attendance problem, it's basically just free XP for everyone; if they do, it should probably be addressed. Not that "games are serious business," but if players consistently fail to respect the time investment made by other players or the DM, that's a problem that needs to be addressed by conversation, not by imaginary rewards in a fictional game, isn't it?

Yep, I view it more as a penalty for players who show up late than a bonus for those who show up on time. It is definitely an in character thing because usually that means your character will be out scouting or preoccupied with something etc... and not contributing.

It does take into account things like the commute because you have until 15 minutes before the start of the session to change what your arrival time is. One would think that your neighbor who games would always be on time but experience has proved that to be a false assumption (hey we all got busy lives). And the easy cheat doesn't work out so well because I tend to time things so that your character gets brought back in based on your arrival time. If you show up an hour and a half before your ETA I hope you're comfortable sitting on your hands for an hour and a half because your character is off scouting :)

On the last item as I said it's really more of a penalty for not respecting the other players at the gaming table. I've found that this method is the most likely to keep everyone happy. The other players feel good because they know the player is facing a consequence, the late player (oddly enough) is happy because they know that people aren't resenting them since they are facing a consequence, and I'm happy that I don't have to deal with the BS of making sure that people act like responsible adults in addition to trying to weave a character back in part way into a session. I haven't seen a single grumble about late players and I have a great timeliness record, neither of which is common around here, so I kinda assume it's working well. And that's the important part.

Tinkerer
2017-09-07, 01:40 PM
I'm a fan of mixing session-based XP with failure-based XP. Everyone gets some XP at the end of the session, and rolling disastrous results that make the situation worse give you some XP as a consolation prize. It tends to even out - people who succeed a lot affect the plot through success, and people who fail a lot get the skills they need to stop failing in the future.

That's definitely an interesting way to do it. I did something similar once but I handed out bonus XP for epic success and... what's the universal term for it... in Savage Worlds it would be Bennies, in FATE it would be Fate Points... Plot tokens I guess we'll call them? Plot tokens for epic failures. It definitely made people a lot more likely to embrace their failures.

Slipperychicken
2017-09-07, 01:49 PM
See, punctuality rewards bother me for several reasons. [...]

I agree with all of this. The thing to do is just accept that you're organizing an informal social event, and set the official start time about an hour or two before the time you want to actually start playing. That ensures that your reliable, functional players will be there in time for it, and you'll all have time to do normal-people socializing before the game starts. It's worked very well in my group for years, even as we've all started getting 'real' jobs and other responsibilities.

If you have players who are disrespectful of your time, or are just dysfunctional enough to frequently fail to attend without giving notice, then you don't have to play roleplaying games with them. Maybe chill with them on a different day, play with them at online games, or do something with them that doesn't require them to be punctual.

JBPuffin
2017-09-07, 02:57 PM
I usually just do flat experience per session. With that said, there are system specific variations a lot, including fiddling with Fudge pretty often to make different experience systems based on costs. There's also one game I ran which had a pretty conventional points per session structure, but where the experience points were secondary to location based improvements - because the game was about the discovery and dissemination of magic by the PCs, and the way they got that was from physically reaching particular extremely inhospitable sites. It was a noun-verb magic system too, where every site had three options (1-2 nouns, 1-2 verbs) and the PCs got two, so particularly in the late game each site was worth a lot.

Was this word-magic game a Fudge one, or a different system? I'm down for any "words have power" scenario, and having the PCs working to spread magic throughout their world is a fun campaign idea in general.

Anonymouswizard
2017-09-07, 05:45 PM
I'm a fan of mixing session-based XP with failure-based XP. Everyone gets some XP at the end of the session, and rolling disastrous results that make the situation worse give you some XP as a consolation prize. It tends to even out - people who succeed a lot affect the plot through success, and people who fail a lot get the skills they need to stop failing in the future.

I do like the idea of failure based XP, but in always wary of a system that rewards some players more than others. Sure, failure based XP well likely even out in the long run (the more you get XP the less likely you are to fail), but it's why I give roleplay XP to the entire party.

Mr Beer
2017-09-07, 07:28 PM
I run GURPS and currently just hand out 2 character points per session per player and I make it 4 character points at the end of an arc.

wumpus
2017-09-07, 07:55 PM
Also because I could just imagine a prince standing by his fathers deathbed. "Son, I'm about to die. When I do so you will have the contents of the royal treasury and lordship over the kingdom. Gasp, croak, die." Upon that happening the young prince instantly puts on 30 kilos of muscle and can cast 3rd level spells because of course the brat is a gish.


How much source material insists that such things happen? Certainly the fairy tale demands a powerful king, even if he just started (King Kelson of the Deryni series might be a great example, although that book seemed far weaker than anything else Katheryn Kurtz wrote). In reality a man might just grow after accepting much more responsibility.

The *instant* growth might be a bit much, but so are some level ups in many games. Just have Elan or Julio come by with a training montage.

I'm not picky about experience, but I've played more "one shot" games than campaigns.

Knaight
2017-09-07, 11:56 PM
Was this word-magic game a Fudge one, or a different system? I'm down for any "words have power" scenario, and having the PCs working to spread magic throughout their world is a fun campaign idea in general.

It was Fudge, but Fudge as a system is prone to giant piles of homebrew, and this game had bigger piles than usual.

Amphetryon
2017-09-08, 08:49 AM
In 3.5:

Do we have a Magic Item Crafter? No? 13 Encounters faced to gain one Level. If you're not sure what constitutes an Encounter, check with the DM. I don't care if it's a pair of Kobolds or a Great Wyrm, it's still 1 Encounter.

Do we have a Magic Item Crafter? Yes? Consult the game's XP chart. Each Encounter faced is 1/13th of a Level's worth of XP. Subtract appropriate XP for Crafting as needed.

I find it makes the math smoother all around.

Jormengand
2017-09-08, 02:22 PM
One of my homebrew adventure paths, Thirteen Blades of the Necromancer, spans from levels 1 to 25. At twenty-four points in the game (technically more than that, but some are mutually exclusive so you can only get 24 of them), you level up. If you miss one of the level-up points, there are a variety of other suggestions for things that you might do to level up. For example, at one point you're meant to be accosted by a character who you will later have to defeat, but that character can be avoided entirely (probably not deliberately, but they can be avoided). If you defeat them, you gain a level... but if you never met them, there's an alternative situation provided that can play out.

In one of my original systems, PLACEHOLDER, you have a chance to upgrade a skill each time you use it. You have a greater chance if you have fewer skills than everyone else, someone else is a lot more advanced than you, or the enemy rolled so high to oppose your rolls that you couldn't possibly have succeeded/rolled so high to attack you that you couldn't possibly have stopped them. This potentially changes your chance to learn a new skill from 1/1296 to 16/81 if you're very far behind (though until high levels it isn't that hard to upgrade skills anyway).

FreddyNoNose
2017-09-08, 02:43 PM
Yep, I view it more as a penalty for players who show up late than a bonus for those who show up on time. It is definitely an in character thing because usually that means your character will be out scouting or preoccupied with something etc... and not contributing.

It does take into account things like the commute because you have until 15 minutes before the start of the session to change what your arrival time is. One would think that your neighbor who games would always be on time but experience has proved that to be a false assumption (hey we all got busy lives). And the easy cheat doesn't work out so well because I tend to time things so that your character gets brought back in based on your arrival time. If you show up an hour and a half before your ETA I hope you're comfortable sitting on your hands for an hour and a half because your character is off scouting :)

On the last item as I said it's really more of a penalty for not respecting the other players at the gaming table. I've found that this method is the most likely to keep everyone happy. The other players feel good because they know the player is facing a consequence, the late player (oddly enough) is happy because they know that people aren't resenting them since they are facing a consequence, and I'm happy that I don't have to deal with the BS of making sure that people act like responsible adults in addition to trying to weave a character back in part way into a session. I haven't seen a single grumble about late players and I have a great timeliness record, neither of which is common around here, so I kinda assume it's working well. And that's the important part.

The only people I have heard have problems with this type of reward in real games I have played in are those who are habitually late.

Anonymouswizard
2017-09-08, 03:21 PM
The only people I have heard have problems with this type of reward in real games I have played in are those who are habitually late.

Eh, I've also met people who have problems with uneven XP full stop. I don't like it, which is why I award roleplaying XP to the entire group instead of just one player (the result? Everybody loves the player who earns RPXP, and those who play reserved characters don't lag behind due to being less noticeable).

Tinkerer
2017-09-08, 03:55 PM
Eh, I've also met people who have problems with uneven XP full stop. I don't like it, which is why I award roleplaying XP to the entire group instead of just one player (the result? Everybody loves the player who earns RPXP, and those who play reserved characters don't lag behind due to being less noticeable).

I've done it that way a number of times but in general I've found that so long as everyone is within a couple of levels of each other it's all good in the end. Even being 10% short is only about half a level. Oooh, this brings up a question though!

When you have a player who has to miss a session do they get the session XP?

Usually for me the answer is no however they do get a bump up in priorities for having 1 on 1 sessions to try and catch them up. This is of course assuming that they told me that they weren't available/had a good reason (if you're just a no show then it's time to sit down and have a talk). For instance one player frequently has to take off for a couple of months at a time. Sometimes they can Skype in but considering time zones that often just isn't feasible. So their character takes off from the group and when they get back we go through some 1 on 1 explaining what they were up to while they were gone and they wind up pretty much caught back up. Our lives are chaotic enough that if we didn't have some sessions short one person then we would go months without gaming.

EDIT:
One of my homebrew adventure paths, Thirteen Blades of the Necromancer, spans from levels 1 to 25. At twenty-four points in the game (technically more than that, but some are mutually exclusive so you can only get 24 of them), you level up. If you miss one of the level-up points, there are a variety of other suggestions for things that you might do to level up. For example, at one point you're meant to be accosted by a character who you will later have to defeat, but that character can be avoided entirely (probably not deliberately, but they can be avoided). If you defeat them, you gain a level... but if you never met them, there's an alternative situation provided that can play out.

In one of my original systems, PLACEHOLDER, you have a chance to upgrade a skill each time you use it. You have a greater chance if you have fewer skills than everyone else, someone else is a lot more advanced than you, or the enemy rolled so high to oppose your rolls that you couldn't possibly have succeeded/rolled so high to attack you that you couldn't possibly have stopped them. This potentially changes your chance to learn a new skill from 1/1296 to 16/81 if you're very far behind (though until high levels it isn't that hard to upgrade skills anyway).

That first one is definitely interesting but I can't imagine plotting a 1-25 level campaign. The last time I did that it... didn't work out well. Total annihilation of the game world I had spent 7 years working on... PLACEHOLDER is neat and I did experiment with per use chance based systems back at the end of the 90s but I ran into too many statistical anomalies to be able to trust it.

Tanarii
2017-09-08, 04:25 PM
See, punctuality rewards bother me for several reasons.

First, because it's an in-character reward for out-of-character conduct. It's like giving an XP bonus for buying the DM pizza. That kind of thing rubs me wrong.
Hold up, hold up. Are you saying as a DM you don't reward gratuitous and blatant bribes? That's just crazy talk. :smallamused:

Anonymouswizard
2017-09-08, 04:32 PM
Hold up, hold up. Are you saying as a DM you don't reward gratuitous and blatant bribes? That's just crazy talk. :smallamused:

I mean, some of us don't do it where other players can watch. What else is that screen good for? :smallwink:

Of course, there are exceptions. Sleeping with the GM gets a free artefact and 10% bonus experience. Until I get bored, would rather watch you squirm, or remember I have a crush on someone else and stop offering sex for bonuses in a game of make believe please. Enjoy your two seconds of bonuses while it lasts.

FreddyNoNose
2017-09-08, 05:11 PM
Hold up, hold up. Are you saying as a DM you don't reward gratuitous and blatant bribes? That's just crazy talk. :smallamused:

The problem with rewards for bringing the DM pizza is getting more pizza. Wait, what was the problem again?

ZamielVanWeber
2017-09-08, 10:05 PM
I do per session experience and I award it to players who are absent. I do not want players to feel punished because real life got in the way and I definitely do not want someone getting sick for two weeks and being dramatically behind. Per session also allows for, at least early on, players to advance a bit so they can feel their character grow.

Frozen_Feet
2017-09-09, 01:33 AM
I'm all for bribing players, I just find XP and other in-game artefacts to be 1) woefully inefficient bribes and 2) create unsporting atmosphere.

I mean, what are some imaginary points compared to fresh cookies?

Slipperychicken
2017-09-09, 10:39 AM
I mean, what are some imaginary points compared to fresh cookies?

If I was GMing, I'd totally give a a GM-benny (inspiration, edge, fate point, willpower, etc) for a player who brings exceptionally good treats or pays for everyone else's food.

Not something that sticks with them or is stackable like upgrade/experience points or a free item, just a nice little temporary thing to express my appreciation.

Anonymouswizard
2017-09-09, 11:15 AM
If I was GMing, I'd totally give a a GM-benny (inspiration, edge, fate point, willpower, etc) for a player who brings exceptionally good treats or pays for everyone else's food.

Not something that sticks with them or is stackable like upgrade/experience points or a free item, just a nice little temporary thing to express my appreciation.

Yeah, a point of metagame currency or a reroll this session in exchange for bringing everybody snacks is certainly worthwhile. It's a small thank you that doesn't stick around and will likely get used, in my good M&M game almost everyone spent Hero Points freely except for one guy (in the bad one you were lucky to get 3/session, the good one also gave them out for fun lines, making people laugh, or for inflicting a minor setback on the group*). Not bonus XP, but some small metagame bonus is worthwhile.

Although I'll also mention I'll give out bonus rerolls for good roleplaying if the game doesn't have a metagame currency, if I want better control of XP gain.

* My robot once hacked into a villain's computer, then immediately logged into his blog and posted the full details of her secret identity online.

Cealocanth
2017-09-09, 05:13 PM
All players are the same level. Keep a hidden XP tally based on encounters, and inform the players when they level up. Simple system, keeps everyone balanced, and its easy to predict when the party increases in power level.

johnbragg
2017-09-09, 07:50 PM
In 3.5:

Do we have a Magic Item Crafter? No? 13 Encounters faced to gain one Level. If you're not sure what constitutes an Encounter, check with the DM. I don't care if it's a pair of Kobolds or a Great Wyrm, it's still 1 Encounter.

Do we have a Magic Item Crafter? Yes? Consult the game's XP chart. Each Encounter faced is 1/13th of a Level's worth of XP. Subtract appropriate XP for Crafting as needed.

I find it makes the math smoother all around.

I take that as a starting point, with two tweaks. (Three tweaks, if you count ignoring XP for crafting). 10 Encounters per level, not 13, assuming they're all "Average Encounters." Hard Encounters (real chance of TPK) count double, Easy Encounters count half.