Yes another question of opinion about class

[j!nx]

I know playgrounders it's like beating a dead orc with a splinterd wooden sword..what is the most powerful class in pathfinder in general, in your opinion and why, also what do you think is the best class for killing spell casters going to be playing a campaign in pathfinder soon were it takes place in the begining of dark sun at its early times right when magic first started to change, so I wanted to build a character based around hunting powerful magics users, any opinion on best playable race with no level adjustment

[Kurald Galain]

What level?

[j!nx]

What level?

Starting level 1

[ArendK]

Arcanists are among the most powerful of the casters because they bring can bring a terrifying level of versatility to any fight on the fly. Now with Dark Sun and all it's different rules on Arcane magic, I have now idea how the interaction is going to be affecting their potential.

To kill a mage, it depends largely on circumstances. The best rule of thumb is "kill it with magic" but that doesn't seem to be your focus; non-magic ways of killing magic is what you want. Let's assume this is a smart, moderate level mage (7). This will bring a barrage of pains to your plans.
Invisibility
Auras that screw with ranged attacks
Concealment
Mobility/Flight
Mind Control
Save or Suck/Lose

Invisibility is hard to beat at low levels until the fight begins and they reveal themselves (if they do at all).
Mobility can be defeated by ranged attacks, or at least strongly negated. Alternately, grappling is a strong way to put that mobility down (and shut down further casting shenanigans).

A tetori (monk archtype), brawler, and a barbarian built around grappling, and an archer build are your best options for beating mages without using magic.

[Eldariel]

The most powerful class in Pathfinder is probably the Wizard given the ridiculous amount of buffs PF gave to the class, though you could reasonably argue for Cleric or Witch, or even Druid, but far as world-shattering power, Wizards are hard to compare to. Sorcs, Oracles, Arcanists, etc. are solid but since they're ½ spell level behind for no good reason, they're clearly weaker. Of course, Dark Sun changes things considerably. Psychic, Cleric, Shaman, etc. are all fair options and fairly good at fighting casters.

[Psyren]

Your best class for killing spellcasters is going to be another spellcaster unless significant limits are placed on their power. (No, simply being in Dark Sun isn't enough.)

[mistermysterio]

I feel like you have 2 different questions:

1: what is the most powerful class

2: what class is best to make casters sad (mundane class?)


Most will answer wizard for number 1, though really, any of the full spellcasters can be up there with a good build.

If you are looking for a class that uses mundane attacks that works well against spellcasters, besides those that have already been suggested, I recommend taking a look at a bloodrager with the arcane bloodline. Many of their abilities are focused on beating up on spellcasters.

Guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uV52XseHRUMKOM-fLF6oXwkF-bcmmPk93XR8u02-sYw/edit)

Note: if you have the primalist archetype you can take some barbarian rage powers too, such as spell sunder :)

[Kurald Galain]

Well at low to moderate levels, you could also go for a melee heavy hitter with good saving throws. Of note here is the barbarian with abilities like Superstition (scaling +2 to +7 on saves vs magic), and Spell Sunder (allows you to dispel spells by whacking them with your sword). At higher levels, the Smash from the Air feat allows you to directly parry spells cast at you.

It may fit the idea of your character better to have a non-caster that hunts casters. And frankly a two-hander to the face can end an encounter just like a save-or-lose spell.

[Serafina]

There's a nice way to go for readied actions with a crossbow, with the action triggering whenever an enemy spellcaster casts a spell.
That's almost guaranteed to shut down their spellcasting, unless they do so entirely out of range (not so easy with a crossbow), line of sight (which also impedes most, but not all, spells) or use magic specifically against that (and most, such as wind walls, can be bypassed with magic weapons).

Take a look at Overwatch Style/Tactician/Vortex. Consider putting it on a Crossbowman Fighter, who gets nice bonuses to readied attack, and then branch into a class who gets Sneak Attack after 7th level. Ranged Weapon Tricks also work nicely there.

It's far from the most powerful build ever, but it is a very fitting ability for a non-magical mage hunter. After all, it's one of the simplest, most well-known and really effective ways of preventing someone from casting, and it can be done without any magic. And it even works nicely against non-casters too - the above build results in someone being really good with crossbows, which works just fine against more mundane threats.

Of course, it doesn't solve the problem of hunting down the caster in question - but for that, you'll eventually just need magic, period. It also doesn't shut down a lot of indirect dangers from casters, but again that's only really counterable by casters. For a direct "counter the caster while on the battlefield" thing, this works just fine.


Outside of that, "most powerful class" obviously goes to one of the fullcaster beyond a certain level. What level that is, what class that is - that depends on your play style, factors such as challenges encountered, available wealth and time, and whether you go at it solo or in cooperation. You could nominate Shaman for getting all Shaman, Cleric and Wizard-spells, or Arcanist for sheer casting versatility and being good at countering other casters, or some Wizard-builds for sheer power, or Druid or Cleric for also being melee-monsters.

[Wartex1]

If you're doing Dark Sun, then is DSP's Psionics allowed?

If so, Psion would work, but Psychic Warrior might be more of what you're looking for if you want martial strength.

Alternatively, if Path of War is allowed, there's a prestige class for initiators strictly for hunting down magic users.

[j!nx]

The problem I'm facing is I don't want to use magic as "witch hunter", due to the magic change in the game I didn't want to play a magic user and have to adapt to the new way, I'm going to let the other 4 players take the magic roles, any ideas on non magic?

[Kurald Galain]

any ideas on non magic?

Yes, I just posted that...

[Wartex1]

Psionics isn't magic. :smalltongue:

For non-magical, Path of War, if allowed, is gonna be your best bet. There's plenty of purely extraordinary options.

Alternatively, a Fighter with a focus on those spellkiller feats or whatever they're called.

[j!nx]

I like the barbarian idea, but does the monk work better or no?

[Eldonauran]

I measure the 'power' of a class by how versatile that class can be in any given situation, without giving any consideration to divination spells, which are under the control of the DM.

I nominate the Druid as the most 'powerful' class in Pathfinder, by that definition. Although witches and clerics have access to Source Severance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/source-severance/), the Druid is more suited to function in it than the other two.

[Wartex1]

Druids are quite powerful, but their spell list is less conducive to crafting than a Wizard or Cleric (plus Wizards have a better spell list).

If crafting is allowed, Wizard probably ends up on top, but a Cleric can be pretty nasty with the right items.

[Gnaeus]

I would not rank Druid top of list in PF. Many of their spells and class abilities were heavily nerfed. While I'm glad for the mention of crafting, in practice the Druid spell list doesn't impact it much. You don't need the spells for the best PF crafting feats, so crafting is basically (any int caster)> (any non int caster)> (noncasters) unless you have special class abilities like the crafter type Vizier (DSP).

As mentioned, the more spell-like your powers, the better you will do. So an Alchemist or Investigator don't technically cast, but their 6 level infusion progression beats most anything without half casting, And the 1/3 casting classes beat the muggles. Of things with actually no casting (and assuming no PoW), things like Slayer, Brawler, and unchained rogue will likely win.

[Wartex1]

Zen Archer Monk is also really good.

At least at killing things. Plus, with Overwatch Style (though that requires Rapid Shot as a prerequisite, I'd personally allow ZA Monks to qualify without it since their ranged Flurry is Rapid Shot without the name) one can ready multiple ranged attacks against spellcasters to disrupt their casting.

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As for crafting, some of the niche magic items can be incredibly powerful, since not only do they have unique effects that nothing else can easily replicate, those effects can be very strong. For instance, the Lyre of Building can allow one to build a very effective fort in just a few hours.