CoS build advice for Monk/Cleric

[Crgaston]

Meet Taran Greenwood, a member of an order dedicated to the seeking and preservation of ancient lore. We used a DM provided array (standard+1) and got a free feat. I chose Perceptive (UA, +1 Wis and Expertise in Perception).

Wood Elf
Acolyte Background
AC 17
HP 29 (rolled)

S12
D16
C13
I10
W18
Ch8

Acrobatics
Stealth
Arcana*
History
Religion*
Insight
Perception*
*Denotes Expertise

Fluent in seven languages!

Open Hand Monk 3 Knowledge Cleric 1
Cantrips: Guidance, Hand of Radiance(UA), Mending
Spells Prepared: Command, Identify, Bless, Cure Wounds, Sanctuary, Guiding Bolt, Healing Word

So far his role has been secondary scout to the rogue, and advisor to the face. He's done fine in combat, but is a bit squishier than I like. The plan is to take at least 2 more levels of Monk and probably no more than 1 level of Cleric, although the L2 Knowledge feature and the extra slot is pretty tempting.

My questions are these:
1. For my next ASI, what should I do? Resilient Con? +1 con and something else, setting up another half feat like Observant, Empathetic(UA) or Stealthy(UA)? +2 Dex for the attack, skills and AC or +2 Wis for the extra prepared spell, skills and AC? Or something else I'm missing? Don't say Warcaster. :)

2. How do my prepared spells/cantrips look? He just took the Cleric level at the end of the last session and hasn't played yet, so they aren't set in stone.

3. Any arguments for or against more Cleric levels? When should he take them?

Thanks for looking!

[djreynolds]

I like 2 levels of rogue with monk, because cunning action is a free use of a bonus action when needed.

Mobile is also nice.

It really depends how satisfied you are with you unarmed damage, at 11th it is 1d8, and 17th level monk it is 1d10.

If you are happy with 1d8 damage, then you need to ask your self do you want level 14 Diamond soul.

Now usually the game goes to level 10. So you will be stuck with an average of 1d6 unarmed damage, unless you use a spear or staff.

For CoS, I like to have protection from good and evil up and running at least until you achieve monk 7 and stillness of mind.

So since this game should go to 10th level, I would go 8 monk and 2 cleric, possibly 1 monk, 1 cleric, then to 8th level monk and finish cleric. Always keep a protection from evil handy and prepared as it last 10 minutes

You should be able to prepare at 1st level, 5 spells, level + wisdom and 1 should always be protection from evil. So you have it right, as you have 5 spells plus your 2 domain but forgot protection from evil

You could also grab 1 level of rogue just for 1 more skill, and expertise in 2 more instead of 2 levels of cleric. But channel divinity in CoS is strong and your wisdom modifier is very good.

Good luck

[Mortis_Elrod]

i myself would go sunsoul/light cleric

[djreynolds]

i myself would go sunsoul/light cleric

Actually this combo is very good, and especially for CoS

[Citan]

Meet Taran Greenwood, a member of an order dedicated to the seeking and preservation of ancient lore. We used a DM provided array (standard+1) and got a free feat. I chose Perceptive (UA, +1 Wis and Expertise in Perception).

Wood Elf
Acolyte Background
AC 17
HP 29 (rolled)

S12
D16
C13
I10
W18
Ch8

Acrobatics
Stealth
Arcana*
History
Religion*
Insight
Perception*
*Denotes Expertise

Fluent in seven languages!

Open Hand Monk 3 Knowledge Cleric 1
Cantrips: Guidance, Hand of Radiance(UA), Mending
Spells Prepared: Command, Identify, Bless, Cure Wounds, Sanctuary, Guiding Bolt, Healing Word

So far his role has been secondary scout to the rogue, and advisor to the face. He's done fine in combat, but is a bit squishier than I like. The plan is to take at least 2 more levels of Monk and probably no more than 1 level of Cleric, although the L2 Knowledge feature and the extra slot is pretty tempting.

My questions are these:
1. For my next ASI, what should I do? Resilient Con? +1 con and something else, setting up another half feat like Observant, Empathetic(UA) or Stealthy(UA)? +2 Dex for the attack, skills and AC or +2 Wis for the extra prepared spell, skills and AC? Or something else I'm missing? Don't say Warcaster. :)

2. How do my prepared spells/cantrips look? He just took the Cleric level at the end of the last session and hasn't played yet, so they aren't set in stone.

3. Any arguments for or against more Cleric levels? When should he take them?

Thanks for looking!
Hi! ;)

Many things to comment here (don't worry, it's not bad ^^).

0. "I feel squishy"
Well, as a Cleric dipped Monk, you have several options.
a) Don medium armor and shield
"Wut? But woulnd't I blow all Monk abilities?"
Fortunately, NO. Doing so voids Unarmored, extra speed and Martial Arts, which is indeed a pain because you don't get permanent bonus action. So that is a tough trade. However, you still get every other feature of Monk, including Flurry of Blows (on which depend your archetype) and Dodge/Dash/Disengage.

So, disclaimer, that is generally your worst option, BUT, if you know that on next encounter you will face a very dangerous enemy (= engaging him in melee would probably be stupid in the first place), going all turtle like may be a choice.

Now for the better solutions.

b) Shield of Faith
Plain ol' Shield of Faith will bump your AC to 19, which is pretty respectable.
Totally compatible with all your Monk goodies too. It does make you a bit of a selfish bastard though (considering you could also Bless majority of your party instead, you included). XD
With that said, a selfish Monk is still more useful to the party than an unconscious Monk so... :)
Plus honestly you don't need Cure Wounds: during fights, Healing Words is usually better (range, bonus action) because 2-3 more HP don't make a real difference if the ally you get back up is still under heavy threat. Outside fights, you shouldn't use healing spells but let people treat themselves with HP dice mechanics and potions, unless all of those are already depleted.

c) Dodge
It does eat at your Ki, which you'd usually prefer keeping for Flurry of Blows + free control attempt. Still, it is the best defensive option you got when considering the ratio expense/benefit.
So in your place, I'd always keep at least one point for an emergency Dodge unless I'm pretty sure it's the few last rounds of fight before a short rest.

1. NEXT ASI
Well, it all depends on how you play and what you plan to do later Cleric wise.
Just know that grabbing Resilient: Constitution or Warcaster is a plain trap if you don't plan on getting many more Cleric levels ASAP: improving concentration for 2 or 3*1st level a day is just not worth it, plus if your campaign goes high enough you will become proficient anyways (Diamond Soul).

As for the other options, let's come back after we answered the other questions.

2. Cantrips and spells
For spells, seems near perfect to me except for that Cure Wounds > Shield of Faith part.
For cantrips...
a) Guidance is, like, a near mandatory because really too useful in many situations.

b) Hand of Radiance? Honestly, I'd rather stick with Sacred Flame personally because...
- Hand of Radiance is self-centered, 5 feet: so if using it means you can potentially hit more than 2 targets, it also means you are in deep s*** because you are swarmed by enemies (no Monk wants that until they have at least 19 AC + Extra Attack + decent pool of Ki). And contrarily to a Thunderwave or Earth Tremor (which are not cantrips, sorry ^^) Hand of Radiance won't help with that.
- It targets Constitution saves, which is a common save. Also makes it redundant, in a lesser way, with the Stunning Strike you'll get "soon". And you cannot swap cantrips as your level (unless DM houserules).
Compared to that, Sacred Flame does radiant damage (rarely resisted), targets Dexterity (so a new option when CON saves are not a good idea), and has a 60 feet range (so you still have something useful to do is nothing is in range of melee or thrown daggers).

c) Mending: honestly depends on you. If you are swarming with ideas on how to use it, by all means keep it.
If you have trouble doing so, I'd suggest instead taking either...
- Spare the Dying (not creative at all, but always useful) or...
- Thaumaturgy (may be easier to get creative with that. One of my players has been so good with it that I'm actually afraid of what he'll be able to imagine when he gets Minor Illusion on top of that XD).

3. Cleric, more or not, and when?
Honestly? It really, really depends on how you play now, how you want to play later, and how much the party may or not depend on your Cleric features.

My gut feeling would be "keep Monk until you get Extra Attack and Stunning Strike"... But I actually see many cases in which it would not be the best advice. For example...
- You are the only one with healing and all the party struggles with fights? Then getting more Healing Words is probably the best option.
- You are a small party, and you took Knowledge to be the skillmonkey? Then taking the 2nd level of Cleric should be your utmost priority.
- You are a bit afraid of going into melee, and your party can perfectly cope with you staying on the backlines? Then taking Cleric up to 3 to get Spiritual Weapon would allow you to, for one encounter, play on the safe side like a pure Cleric, combining Sacred Flame and Spiritual Weapon to dish pretty decent damage from a safe place. Plus you would get spells helping you as a martial (Blindness, Hold Person) or party resilience (Aid, Warding Bond) and nice rituals (Augury, Gentle Repose, Silence).
- You just want better occasional defense? Then Monk first and only, for more Ki on Dodge. ;)
- Your party is really counting on you staying in the front and trying to control? Then Monk ASAP for Extra Attack and Stunning Strike.

So, really there is no definite answer with how little we know about you. It's up to you to decide which to go first between Monk and Cleric.
With that said, I'd probably aim towards Monk 5-6 / Cleric 2-3 as a first goal, then see where to go from there. By then you will probably know better what abilities you want to use from each class and how high you can expect your character to go.

Which brings back to 1.

1. (THE RETURN) What to do with ASI?
Let's adress the elephant in the room: Resilient: Constitution is probably a bad idea whatever the case, unless a) you want to bump Cleric ASAP b) you plan on using mainly concentration spells c) you never expect going as high as Monk 14.

With that aside, I'd say: wonder what is your biggest problem actually and work on that.
a) You usually get swarmed? Then Mobile is probably your best bet...
Allowing you to easily rush in and back (plus that means you can use Open Hand control on push/prone effect instead of having to use the "no-reaction" effect).

b) One of the UA feats or Observant piqued your interest?
Then +1 CON and +1 stat to prepare for the feat is a great choice.
- Empathetic and Observant are great for social and spying situations.
- Stealthy, well, it's obvious why it's good. If you are the party scout, can be very worth also. ^^
- Medic: I'd also make a case for Medic which would be very nice if there is no dedicated healer in the party: it's basically providing the effect of a mini-Beacon of Hope (just realized it works only for one die, that's a bit of shame, but expected), so if you take frequent short rests it would be great. Its efficiency will fall off as you progress though. If someone in your party takes Healer feat, forget about this.

c) You really want to increase your resilience? Then consider bumping CON by 2 to prepare for the Durable feat.
Important: check with your DM beforehand, how he interprets the feat: if he's following the twitter ruling, it's a waste of a feat. If however he's following the thing as written, it makes a very worthwhile investment, because with a 16 CON it means you would always "roll 6 min (3*2)" on your d8 die.

d) You are not sure of what to do yet? Bumping DEX to 18 is the good all-around solution.
+1 Initiative, +1 AC, +1 to-hit and +1 damage cannot be a wrong choice. ;)

Honestly all are great choice. It depends on your role in party, and how party can help you in return (for example if you have someone reliably helping you on to-hit with Bless, shoved enemies, Faerie Fire or the like, you can easily cope with 16 DEX until level 12. Otherwise, you may be frustrated at times).

If you are unsure what to do, go DEX bump. If you are set on another choice, don't worry it's very good too.

Hope that will help you see more clearly how you want to develop your character. Have fun!

[Crgaston]

Thanks, guys. This is the kind of insight I appreciate. This is my first monk ever, and I've only played a handful of clerics, mostly in earlier editions. Honestly, the cleric level is there mostly for character/rp reasons (and of course it's got useful abilities out the wazoo).

There is another cleric, and a paladin as well, so we're not lacking for healing, and the rogue handles Thanks for the spell suggestions. So, replacing Cure Wounds with PFEG and hand of Radiance with Sacred Flame makes sense, but Shield of Faith vs Sanctuary? I like the range on Sanctuary, the bonus action cast, and no concentration for saving someone's bacon. Fortunately I can swap these out daily and experiment.

[Citan]

Thanks, guys. This is the kind of insight I appreciate. This is my first monk ever, and I've only played a handful of clerics, mostly in earlier editions. Honestly, the cleric level is there mostly for character/rp reasons (and of course it's got useful abilities out the wazoo).

There is another cleric, and a paladin as well, so we're not lacking for healing, and the rogue handles Thanks for the spell suggestions. So, replacing Cure Wounds with PFEG and hand of Radiance with Sacred Flame makes sense, but Shield of Faith vs Sanctuary? I like the range on Sanctuary, the bonus action cast, and no concentration for saving someone's bacon. Fortunately I can swap these out daily and experiment.
Hmm I dont think anyone here suggested replacing Sanctuary for Shield of Faith. You are right Sanctuary is a good spell.
I think you will find soon enough anyways which spell you 's best keep especially woht only 2 slots for the day. : )
Have fun and good luck to your party.

[Specter]

You definitely want Resilient (CON), and something that deals radiant damage (like DivineFavor).