Easiest Vhuman/Half-Elf 'Fix'

[strangebloke]

People will often rant about how the vHuman or the Half-Elf are ludicrously OP, since they're the only races that can get three 16s, and because certain feats like HAM, PAM, and GWM are strong in the early game.

First of all I don't think that they're actually that bad. They're just generic and therefore show up in every handbook. Certain feats are OP at low-level, but that's mostly a separate issue.

But if you really don't like vHumans ruling first-level play:

1. Delay the feat until 4th level, or give everyone a feat at first level.
2. Increase point-buy cap for all players to 16, or lower it to 14.

Surely that's more than enough of a debuff? Seems super trivial, for something that people talk about so much.

[ZorroGames]

People will often rant about how the vHuman or the Half-Elf are ludicrously OP, since they're the only races that can get three 16s, and because certain feats like HAM, PAM, and GWM are strong in the early game.

First of all I don't think that they're actually that bad. They're just generic and therefore show up in every handbook. Certain feats are OP at low-level, but that's mostly a separate issue.

But if you really don't like vHumans ruling first-level play:

1. Delay the feat until 4th level, or give everyone a feat at first level.
2. Increase point-buy cap for all players to 16, or lower it to 14.

Surely that's more than enough of a debuff? Seems super trivial, for something that people talk about so much.
Personslly I think current options work just fine.

Most of my characters are Mountain Dwarf but in a campaign from 1 to 12 (what I expect most games) I think the fast start for VHuman is not overwhelming into the teens or higher level.

[strangebloke]

Personslly I think current options work just fine.

Most of my characters are Mountain Dwarf but in a campaign from 1 to 12 (what I expect most games) I think the fast start for VHuman is not overwhelming into the teens or higher level.

Amongst other things, the 'early levels' are just so short. You'll spend more time at level 11 than you will from levels 1-4.

I should note a point of clarification: My idea about giving everyone a feat at first level doesn't actually get rid of the 'problem' a vHuman who take both PAM and GWM, for instance, would make the 'problem' worse.

[Koren]

V-humans are literally just a different set if racial bonuses applied to Humans. If you don't like them, why not simply deny the variant as an option?

[KorvinStarmast]

People will often rant about how the vHuman or the Half-Elf are ludicrously OP, since they're the only races that can get three 16s, and because certain feats like HAM, PAM, and GWM are strong in the early game. So what? Mountain Dwarfs can get two 17's with point buy since they have +2 +2 to str and con.
Half orcs get "not dead yet" that others don't get.

OP? No. Different.

[GlenSmash!]

I like VHumans, and Half-Elves, because of the extra Language proficiency.

Yes I know I'm weird.

[Tanarii]

IMO the quickest overall 'fix' is take away 1 bonus skill from each race.

Another decent 'fix' is to only allow point buy for races you feel are too weak, and use Standard Array for the others.

But as you say, what mainly makes Vumans OP is that there are more than a few Feats that aren't balanced, especially not for 1st level. Even ones that are okay later on can be straight OP for the first few levels, like Heavy Armor Mastery. You can work around that by banning combat feats or something.

There's definitely no need to power up other races directly. Except maybe for the default Human. :smallwink: For example, giving away a Feat at the start is total overkill, straight up power creep. 5e is already a product of edition power creep over thirty years, no need to make that worse. Nerfing is always better than powering stuff up, as a general rule. :smallamused:

[Easy_Lee]

The easiest fix is to give everyone a feat and give humans actual racial abilities. Take a look at Kryx's house rules for a balanced revised human.

[Biggstick]

The mighty Triton would like to have a word with you, regarding it's ability to ALSO have three 16's at level 1!

[Klorox]

The easiest fix is to realize that these races are not unbalanced and there's nothing wrong with them.

[Easy_Lee]

The easiest fix is to realize that these races are not unbalanced and there's nothing wrong with them.

Not unbalanced, but Vhuman and half-elf are vastly more popular than most of the other races. There's a reason for that. In an ideal world, all of the races would be equally popular.

That said, I'm not sure how much can be done about this. Vhuman is the most customizeable race, and people like half-elves for similar reasons (plus they're a bunch of pretty-but-not-too-pretty orphans).

[Zman]

In my teraks I remove variant human and give all races a free 1st level Feat. Humans get two skills, and half elves only get one.

[Sigreid]

Not unbalanced, but Vhuman and half-elf are vastly more popular than most of the other races. There's a reason for that. In an ideal world, all of the races would be equally popular.

That said, I'm not sure how much can be done about this. Vhuman is the most customizeable race, and people like half-elves for similar reasons (plus they're a bunch of pretty-but-not-too-pretty orphans).

I'm not at all sure this is true. They're talked about a lot. They're usually the sky blue race options for guides. But I've not seen them actually selected more in play.

[imanidiot]

Not unbalanced, but Vhuman and half-elf are vastly more popular than most of the other races. There's a reason for that. In an ideal world, all of the races would be equally popular.

That said, I'm not sure how much can be done about this. Vhuman is the most customizeable race, and people like half-elves for similar reasons (plus they're a bunch of pretty-but-not-too-pretty orphans).

I don't understand why people wanting to play these races more than you think is appropriate would be a problem.

There are lots of fantasy stories where humans are the only humanoid civilization. In most fantasy that includes other non-human civilizations, humans are far and away the main focus.

In D&D, up until 3rd edition, level limts were used specifically to discourage people from playing non-humans.

[Rowan Wolf]

I think a lot of appeal of half elves is the heavy focus on charisma casters in 5th though I have also see quite a bit of charisma dump class half elves as many players in my former home detested a negative modifier to any stat.

[ZorroGames]

The easiest fix is to realize that these races are not unbalanced and there's nothing wrong with them.

:smallcool: seems odd so many people diss standard human but people complain how unbalanced variant Human supposedly are OP.

[WickerNipple]

If you 'fix' humans you'll go right back to previous editions where no one ever played them except for fluff.

[ZorroGames]

I have only seen one or two humans in AL play so far. Everybody is either an Elf, a half-Elf, or a few (like me) that default to Dwarf (though I am the only Dwarf to not be a fighter or barbarian so far.)

Half the reason I have standard/variant humans in my character folder is because it is a glaring lack in my mind.

[ZorroGames]

I don't understand why people wanting to play these races more than you think is appropriate would be a problem.

There are lots of fantasy stories where humans are the only humanoid civilization. In most fantasy that includes other non-human civilizations, humans are far and away the main focus.

In D&D, up until 3rd edition, level limts were used specifically to discourage people from playing non-humans.

OD&D - all kinds of limits -

"Fighting Men: Includes the characters of elves and dwarves and even hobbits. Magic-Users includes inly men and elves. Clerics are limited to men only."

Dwarves - Fighting Men only and max at 6th.

Elves either Fighting men or Magic-users switchable between but not during a game. Max Fightng at 4th and Magic-user at 8th.

Hobbit Fighting men only snd max at 4th.

Each supplement (Greyhawk, Blackmoor, etc.,) introduced new classes and bumped levels fir non-humans a bit.

Gygax had definite ideas on what people should play and was very vocal about it.

[Tanarii]

I've recently started a single-party campaign with Mystara as the backdrop campaign setting. That's a setting where Humans are vastly dominant. As a consequence, I wanted the party to be mostly Human. It was pretty easy:
1) my session 0 doc described the various human cultures available near the starting area in some detail, and each class had a little blurb about what cultures it was common to.
2) variant humans.
Out of five party members, 4 are Humans. One is an Elf. Worked like a treat.

IMO that's the purpose of standard vs variant humans. Standard humans are kinda boring, but can be any class easily. They're also simple for new players, who IMX almost always choose to be human unless they watched the Tolkien movies, in which case they often choose Elf.

Whereas Variant Humans are more powerful than any other race. They are a competitive option, but not necessarily the absolute best, for any class. That makes Humans far more common in adventuring parties when they're an available variant. How good a thing that is depends on what kind of setting / game the DM is trying to run, of course. But the DM has options, and can pick either standard or default humans as she needs to.

For example in AL, set in the Realms, humans being the most common in adventuring parties is thematically appropriate.