PDA

View Full Version : Flurry of Blows and TWF



Xan
2007-08-12, 02:45 PM
I'm thinking about making a Skarn Monk and going into the Spinemeld Warrior prestige class. How would it work if you had Flurry of Blows as well as Two Weapon Fighting? Would you simply gain the extra attacks of both on a full attack? Or do you have to pick one or the other.

Were-Sandwich
2007-08-12, 02:47 PM
You get both extra attacks. Also, Skarn ftw.

Douglas
2007-08-12, 02:50 PM
You gain both the extra attacks and the penalties of both. A level 1 Monk with TWF could flurry/TWF with unarmed strikes for three attacks in a full attack, but each attack would get a -4 penalty for the combination.

Person_Man
2007-08-12, 05:40 PM
The math is pretty straitforward.

Expected damage = (% chance of hitting) * (average damage per hit)

Do this for each of your attacks, and then add each of the expected damages together to get your total expected damage per round.

You can combine Flurry with TWF, and in most cases it will increase your expected damage, because you'll have more attacks. However, if your enemy has a sufficiently high AC, it will sometimes lower your probability of hitting so much that your expected damage is lowered as well. (The exception being enemies who have AC so high that you need to roll a natural 20 to hit, in which case you should always make as many attack rolls as possible). It's simply a matter of plugging in the correct math. As you roll to attack, you should keep a close eye on what rolls hit, so that you can determine your enemy's AC, and figure out the optimial Flurry+TWF ratio.

Be sure to take Quickdraw, so that if you kill all the enemies standing next to you, you can draw and throw shuriken at anyone else left on the battlefield when making a full attack.

Also, if TWF+Flurry is what you want to do, I highly suggest using the Disiple of the Eye (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060106a&page=2) prestige class. Its levels stack to determine Flurry, and it forces your enemy to Save vs. Fear every time you ROLL to attack. And Fear effects stack.

You might also want to look into the Tome of Battle. There are various manuevers that benefit from hitting lots of times (as opposed to a single deadly charge hit, which typically is the superior way of maximizing damage).

Douglas
2007-08-12, 05:49 PM
Be sure to take Quickdraw, so that if you kill all the enemies standing next to you, you can draw and throw shuriken at anyone else left on the battlefield when making a full attack.
You don't need Quickdraw for that. shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#shuriken), so it's already a free action to draw them without a feat.

Zeful
2007-08-12, 05:52 PM
Also get the speed enhancement for your TWF use weapons, you get two more free attacks at your highest BAB. It's expensive, but worth it in my mind.

Yuki Akuma
2007-08-12, 06:47 PM
Also get the speed enhancement for your TWF use weapons, you get two more free attacks at your highest BAB. It's expensive, but worth it in my mind.

The extra attacks granted by Speed weapons don't stack.

Thinker
2007-08-12, 06:54 PM
Would it stack with Haste?

Indon
2007-08-12, 07:05 PM
You might also want to look into the Tome of Battle. There are various manuevers that benefit from hitting lots of times (as opposed to a single deadly charge hit, which typically is the superior way of maximizing damage).

Aren't most maneuvers standard actions?

Or are you speaking more along the lines of stances?

Quietus
2007-08-12, 08:29 PM
Would it stack with Haste?

Nope.

And Indon - you can also get counters and boosts, which are generally immediate/swift actions. Strikes tend to take the form of standards, however.

AtomicKitKat
2007-08-12, 08:47 PM
Would it stack with Haste?

No.

As far as TWF+Flurry goes, the most number of attacks you can get(pre-MWF), is 4 main-hand attacks, 3 off-hand attacks(3 feat investment), 2 off-hand Flurry, 1 Snap Kick(Unarmed, 1 feat with Flurry, 2 without), 1 One-Two Punch(Frostrager, needs Rage+Frozen Berserker and Power Attack Feats), 1 Rend(if you connect twice in the same round with your Unarmed attacks. Also Frostrager). Beyond that, you can get 1 more attack per round if your weapons are Eagle Claws(Sandstorm Exotic Weapon. You will need EWP and Eagle's Fury, so 2 Feat investment unless you are Asherati Race), 1 attack with a Weapon of Speed/Haste(do not stack), 1 more attack if you are using a double weapon and take Exotic Weapon Master(At least 2 Feat investment, does not stack with Eagle Claws).

To sum up, assuming you have 16 BAB(minimum needed for 4 base main-hand):

16/11/6/1 Main
16/11/6 Off
16/16 Flurry(Unarmed)
16 Snap-Kick(Unarmed)
16 One-Two Punch(Unarmed)
- Rend(Unarmed. Automatic damage)
16 Eagle's Fury
16 Haste/Weapon of Speed

After you apply all the penalties(-2 on all attacks for TWF penalties, -2 for Snap-Kick, -2 for Eagle's Fury, 0 to -2 for Flurry. If you have any penalties for Flurry, you should only have 1 extra attack from it), it will look like this:

10/5/0/-5 Main
10/5/0 Off
10/10 Flurry(Unarmed)
10 Snap-Kick(Unarmed)
10 One-Two Punch(Unarmed)
- Rend(Unarmed. Automatic damage)
10 Eagle's Fury
10 Haste/Weapon of Speed

If you really, really wanted to, you could probably take Fighter 4 to acquire Weapon Focus+Weapon Specialisation+Slashing Weapon Mastery+Slashing Flurry, but at this point, you're probably out of Feats.:smallbiggrin:

Skjaldbakka
2007-08-12, 08:49 PM
can all that fit on an ECL 20 character?

AtomicKitKat
2007-08-12, 09:05 PM
can all that fit on an ECL 20 character?

Maybe. I'm kind of rushing to get ready for work, but I'll see what I can do.

Monk 11/Barb 1/Frost Rager 5/? 3

As long as ? is not a 1/2-BAB class, you should hit the critical 16 BAB.

Feats:
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
Power Attack
Frozen Berserker
EWP(Eagle's Claw)
IUS(Bonus from Monk)
Eagle's Fury
Snap-Kick

That pretty much eats up all of your Feats(1/3/6/9/12/15/18). You'd need to squeeze in Fighter or some other Bonus Feat class in the ? to get the 8th slot you need. You'd also need decent Strength and Dex(13-15 in each, give or take)

Jack Mann
2007-08-12, 10:51 PM
That's nine feats you need. Call it two levels of fighter or one level and human as the race, and you've got it.

AtomicKitKat
2007-08-12, 11:35 PM
That's nine feats you need. Call it two levels of fighter or one level and human as the race, and you've got it.

Well, there you go then.

I could have sworn it was 8 Feats though.

1 EWP
2 Eagle's Fury
3 Power Attack(PR for Frost Rager)
4 Frozen Berserker(ditto)
5 Snap Kick(IUS PR waived via Monk)
6 TWF
7 ITWF
8 GTWF

If you went for Slashing Flurry(another -5 to all attacks though, so probably not worth it), that's another 4 Feats(Weapon Focus/Spec/Mastery, Slashing Flurry). 5, if you use Versatile Unarmed Strike so that it would work with your fists.

13 Feats practically requires you be Human with 8 levels of Fighter.

If your race is Asherati, you waive the EWP requirement, which saves you one Feat.

You should probably want Blazing Berserker from Sandstorm as well, so that you are immune to both Fire and Cold(and cold damage heals you).