Smite Knight: any good?

[Klorox]

I'm thinking of making a smite knight.

This character, at level 20, would be a fighter (eldritch knight) 18/paladin 2. I think the best way to build him is as a half orc.

Standard array: 16/10/16/8/12/13

Level 1: choose defense fighting style, second wind
Level 2: action surge
Level 3: eldritch knight archetype
Level 4: 18/10/16/8/12/13
Level 5: extra attack (2)

After level 5 EK, that's when I'd add the two levels of paladin. This gives you the ability to smite away your spell slots. Sure, they won't be very high level, but they'll hurt.

Level 6: divine sense and lay on hands. Meh.
Level 7: great weapon fighting fighting style. This is where it pays to use a greatsword or maul over a greataxe.

After this 5/2 split, obviously all further levels go into fighter.

Level 8: 20/10/16/8/12/13
Level 9: attack as a bonus action after casting a cantrip. Maybe booming blade? Otherwise meh.
Level 10: great weapon master feat
Level 11: reroll a failed save 1x/ day
Level 12: you'll never use this LOL
Level 13: extra attack (3)
Level 14: lucky feat
Level 15: reroll a failed save 2x/ day
Level 16: 20/10/18/8/12/13
Level 17: teleport 30'
Level 18: 20/10/20/8/12/13
Level 19: action surge x2
Level 20: reroll a failed save 3x/ day

The smites will never be über powerful in one shot (except on a critical hit, half orcs baby!), but you'll have so many opportunities to actually expend them. I suggest burning through them ASAP, as long as you're not stealing the fun from the rest of the party. Destroy the mooks so the rest of the party can expend all its resources on the BBEG.

You attack more than any paladin out there. You aren't really restricted by any code (this is usually a DM enforced thing, not a RAW thing, but you never made an oath, so you should be good). The only spells I can see you casting are booming blade and (levels 3, 4, 9, 10, 11, and 12, unless my math is off), green flame blade (same levels as booming blade, depends on targets positioning, shield (life saver), and misty step (it's so damn good). Bless from the paladin side is great too, and since you have CON saving throw proficiency, it'll probably be staying up. Most of the time, these will all be burned away in smites though, and that's why we're here. Since you need to choose spells, just in case, I'd suggest looking in a better guide than what I've thrown together when I can't sleep. Just remember that your casting stats suck (8 INT, 13 CHA), so don't choose spells that actually rely on them.

[Klorox]

Alternately, after character level 13 (fighter 11/paladin 2), you could abandon the progression of fighter and go for draconic sorcerer (elemental bonuses) or bard (skills). You'll get more spells to burn this way, but you'll only get one more ASI, not three as if you had stayed fighter.

You get to choose between the lucky feat and a 16 CON, or an 18 CON.

Now that I think about it, if you're determined to add a full spellcaster, you might be best off with a final breakdown of fighter (eldritch knight) 12, paladin 2, bard or sorcerer 6. You can end up with the lucky feat and an 18 CON this way.

Another option is fighter 14, paladin 2, bard/sorcerer 4. You get the same 20 CON and lucky feat as you would have in the two class breakdown, albeit 2 levels later.

Taking a bard or sorcerer class reduces your total HP by 1 per bard or sorcerer level.

If you end up with a 18 CON, you're robbing yourself of 20 HP at level 20. If you end up with a 16 CON, that's 40 HP at level 20.

Choose wisely.

[JBPuffin]

Alternately, after character level 13 (fighter 11/paladin 2), you could abandon the progression of fighter and go for draconic sorcerer (elemental bonuses) or bard (skills). You'll get more spells to burn this way, but you'll only get one more ASI, not three as if you had stayed fighter.

You get to choose between the lucky feat and a 16 CON, or an 18 CON.

Now that I think about it, if you're determined to add a full spellcaster, you might be best off with a final breakdown of fighter (eldritch knight) 12, paladin 2, bard or sorcerer 6. You can end up with the lucky feat and an 18 CON this way.

Another option is fighter 14, paladin 2, bard/sorcerer 4. You get the same 20 CON and lucky feat as you would have in the two class breakdown, albeit 2 levels later.

Taking a bard or sorcerer class reduces your total HP by 1 per bard or sorcerer level.

If you end up with a 18 CON, you're robbing yourself of 20 HP at level 20. If you end up with a 16 CON, that's 40 HP at level 20.

Choose wisely.

In the end, adding caster levels can be fun and all, but it misses the mark on flavor. Your job is to kill things deader than dead using spell slots as fuel and cantrips to make it shorter work; having 3 attacks, both the EK action economy things (attack+cantrip, spell+attack), and all those ASIs combine into something so absurdly simple, and yet strong enough you don't really need anything on top. My two cents, at least.

[djreynolds]

I think 12 fighter / 8 paladin is pretty sweet.

The save bonus for aura of protection are too powerful to pass up.

This way you can leave con respectable and plus charisma which will affect all of your saves

Remember you want your fighter in 3s for spell progression, and paladin in 2s.

[skaddix]

Why dip Sorcerer? I dip Fiend Warlock. Short Rest recoverable slots for smiting and some hp recovery.

[Arkhios]

Why dip Sorcerer? I dip Fiend Warlock. Short Rest recoverable slots for smiting and some hp recovery.

You know what, this might actually be very good choice.

Warlock 7 is all you need for smites going big as they cap at 4th level slots anyway.
Paladin 2 is simply for divine smite right? Another fighting style of course, but that's pretty minor thing.
Fighter 11 for that delicious third attack.

To top it all, consider this: you would have separate spell slots from spellcasting and pact magic. Use pact magic for smites (I'd spare them for crits only; you'll do insane damage anyway with GWM) and regular slots for the other spells you know.

If I'm not mistaken, you'd have (from regular spellcasting) four 1st-level slots and three 2nd-level slots. I'd say spare them for those Blessings, Shields and Misty Steps.

Two well placed critical smites with 4th-level slots are almost guaranteed to kill a target.

[Citan]

I think 12 fighter / 8 paladin is pretty sweet.

The save bonus for aura of protection are too powerful to pass up.

This way you can leave con respectable and plus charisma which will affect all of your saves

Remember you want your fighter in 3s for spell progression, and paladin in 2s.
Agreed with this. If in Smite Knight the important word is Knight, nothing best than boasting an apparent indifference to all those nasty spells that demons and fiends unleash at you. ;)

On that note, EK 11 / Vengeance 9 would make a pretty nasty smite, with decent slots and Haste. ;)

Otherwise, I'd say EK 11 / Pal 2 / Warlock 7 (short rest maximized Smite slots) or EK 12 / Pal 2 / Draconic Sorcerer 6 (Haste, better slot array) would much more enforce your Smite Knight's goal which is to kill enemies quicker.

You liked the double Action Surge, but it's once/turn.
As a EK 18 / Pal 2 you'd be 7th level caster: 1*4th level slot, 3*3rd level slots: you couldn't even give a "full power smite" on a single Attack action.

With Warlock 7, you can at least dish a nova Attack closer to full power every short rest.
With the Sorcerer 6 in play, you'd end caster level 11 AND you could convert slots as needed, so you could easily make a full power Smite Attack and, if you wished so, you could even convert slots to make a "full-power nova round" (Action Surge Attack, Attack, Quicken Booming Blade, with up to 7*4th level slots on it).

[Sans.]

Meh. You lose smites from 1/3 progression instead of 1/2, need some caster levels to actually give more smites.

[tmjr6]

Just a side note, you can only get a fighting style from one source, multiclassing doesn't grant an additional one. Only Champion Fighters get an exception within their class.

[mephnick]

Just a side note, you can only get a fighting style from one source, multiclassing doesn't grant an additional one. Only Champion Fighters get an exception within their class.

Sure it does. I believe Crawford has even confirmed.

[tmjr6]

Sure it does. I believe Crawford has even confirmed.

Source? Cause that conflicts with the Rulebook.

[Khobahi]

Source? Cause that conflicts with the Rulebook.

As long as it is a different style you can totally have more than one. Can't stack the same one though.

Can't post links yet but but >>www(dot)sageadvice.eu/2015/01/23/multiclass-fighting-styles/

[Chugger]

I wonder how this compares to Sorcadin?

There's a link on that in our link section (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502673-Unlimited-Blade-Works-The-Guide-to-the-Ultimate-Paladin-Sorcerer-Multiclass).

I can see a few obvious advs and disads to each, but I'll let others talk about it if they want - maybe you can help us.

[MrStabby]

I think I would want to go EK to 7, then Paladin 2, then warlock 2 then EK to 8, Warlock to 4. Finish off with barbarian 4.

A third attack is nice but not really needed if you are cantripping your way to success. Warlock gives you access to a nice set of spells as well as more smite-fodder and picks of some great invocations on the way. EK to 8 is just for the ASI, same for Warlock to 4. The build needn't be particularly mad. Just a Cha 13 for the multiclassing and your primary melee stats.

Barbarian 4 at the end is simply because I think it adds a good amount of melee presence. Rage is another resource to use and whilst you can't cast during rage you can smite (so less good with the cantrips). It will toughen you up a lot though through danage resistance. It gets you reckless attack - all the better for critical smites. Keeps an ASI and gets you danger sense but gets you a primal path - personally I would like eagle but for the fact that you can't use it's ability on the turn you rage.

[Khrysaes]

You know what, this might actually be very good choice.

Warlock 7 is all you need for smites going big as they cap at 4th level slots anyway.
Paladin 2 is simply for divine smite right? Another fighting style of course, but that's pretty minor thing.
Fighter 11 for that delicious third attack.

To top it all, consider this: you would have separate spell slots from spellcasting and pact magic. Use pact magic for smites (I'd spare them for crits only; you'll do insane damage anyway with GWM) and regular slots for the other spells you know.

If I'm not mistaken, you'd have (from regular spellcasting) four 1st-level slots and three 2nd-level slots. I'd say spare them for those Blessings, Shields and Misty Steps.

Two well placed critical smites with 4th-level slots are almost guaranteed to kill a target.

If UA is allowed, you can drop paladin altogether, and get the Warlock Smite invocation. Not cursebringer, but the newer one.
You can then continue to go warlock, getting your 4th or 5th level slots, albiet only 2 per short rest, or go Sorc or Bard for better slots. As far as dips go, you do need 5 for the smite invocation. I think cursebringer was 3? it may have been 5 as well. Smite invocation specifies warlock spell slots, but similarly paladin specifies Paladin spell slots, so whatever.

[skaddix]

True but Paladin does give you improved saves.

[Klorox]

Skaddix: I like the 7 warlock levels. It works really well power-wise, although with only a 13 CHA, I wouldn't rely on EB. The point of this class is to burn smites ASAP. The warlock gives more powerful smites, but less of them. Still, it's a good idea, thanks for the suggestion.


True but Paladin does give you improved saves.

I'm basing the character off of the stats in the first post. This paladin has a 13 CHA because it's a multiclass requirement. Those spells are for damage delivered through a heavy weapon. Nothing else.

Taking a paladin from the proposed 2 levels to 6 (or more) for a +1 saving throw aura and a wasted extra attack is a big waste.

Tmjr6: You can't take the same fighting style more than once, but you can have many fighting styles (RAW, I think you can have up to 4, 2 from champion 10, 1 from paladin 2, 1 from ranger 2).

[smcmike]

Just a side note, you can only get a fighting style from one source, multiclassing doesn't grant an additional one. Only Champion Fighters get an exception within their class.


Source? Cause that conflicts with the Rulebook.

The Rulebook does not say this anywhere.

[Arkhios]

If UA is allowed, you can drop paladin altogether, and get the Warlock Smite invocation. Not cursebringer, but the newer one.
You can then continue to go warlock, getting your 4th or 5th level slots, albiet only 2 per short rest, or go Sorc or Bard for better slots. As far as dips go, you do need 5 for the smite invocation. I think cursebringer was 3? it may have been 5 as well. Smite invocation specifies warlock spell slots, but similarly paladin specifies Paladin spell slots, so whatever.

True. Though I'd prefer not to make any assumptions on UA if the purpose of the pre-made build is to be viable in every table.



Just a side note, you can only get a fighting style from one source, multiclassing doesn't grant an additional one. Only Champion Fighters get an exception within their class.

Source? Cause that conflicts with the Rulebook.
The Rulebook does not say this anywhere.

To elaborate on this, here's a quote from PHB, Fighter's Fighting Style:
"FIGHTING STYLE
You adopt a particular style of fighting as your specialty. Choose one of the following options. You can't take a Fighting Style option more than once, even if you later get to choose again."

Note, that a fighting style has two defining parameters: Fighting Style feature itself and the option to choose from several fighting styles. The restriction is only about the options, not the feature itself.

[djreynolds]

Klorox I still like the build 18 EK/2 paladin, its definitely works and you can throw divine favor onto 3 attacks if you want.

Give it a try

[Arkhios]

Klorox I still like the build 18 EK/2 paladin, its definitely works and you can throw divine favor onto 3 attacks if you want.

Give it a try

Oh, absolutely, it works well as is. Also worth considering could be taking two-weapon fighting style + divine favor for 4 attacks/turn each of them dealing an extra +1d4 radiant damage and increasing the chance to land a hit/crit for burning your smites ASAP.

I'd call it a Holy Blender of Death :P

[Klorox]

Oh, absolutely, it works well as is. Also worth considering could be taking two-weapon fighting style + divine favor for 4 attacks/turn each of them dealing an extra +1d4 radiant damage and increasing the chance to land a hit/crit for burning your smites ASAP.

I'd call it a Holy Blender of Death :PI'm confused where the extra 1d4 radiant on every attack is coming from.

[Sicarius Victis]

I'm confused where the extra 1d4 radiant on every attack is coming from.

It's coming from Divine Favour, as mentioned in the comment you quoted.

[Klorox]

It's coming from Divine Favour, as mentioned in the comment you quoted.LOL, there it is!

I'm posting right now as I've been up for 24 hours and just called out sick for today. I'm sticking with that excuse! LOL

[djreynolds]

Divine favor is a good spell to concentrate on, and paladin gets it a 2nd level.

18 EK/ 2 Paladin will work very well

[Klorox]

In the end, adding caster levels can be fun and all, but it misses the mark on flavor. Your job is to kill things deader than dead using spell slots as fuel and cantrips to make it shorter work; having 3 attacks, both the EK action economy things (attack+cantrip, spell+attack), and all those ASIs combine into something so absurdly simple, and yet strong enough you don't really need anything on top. My two cents, at least.


Divine favor is a good spell to concentrate on, and paladin gets it a 2nd level.

18 EK/ 2 Paladin will work very well

Thanks a lot guys!

[Sans.]

It works, but you get less slots than if you just stayed paladin.

[Klorox]

It works, but you get less slots than if you just stayed paladin.

Confession: I've never played a paladin to a mid/high level.

Do you run out of smites? The idea with this character is to have more attacks than a standard paladin. The idea is to be able to constantly smite, and even when you run out of smites, you have 3 attacks per round with great weapon fighting style and a greatsword.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Confession: I've never played a paladin to a mid/high level.

Do you run out of smites? The idea with this character is to have more attacks than a standard paladin. The idea is to be able to constantly smite, and even when you run out of smites, you have 3 attacks per round with great weapon fighting style and a greatsword.

Hit Paladin11 and never run out of smites ever. And instead of a Greatsword, you can crank out 3 attacks per round with Polearm Mastery. If you want to go Warlock7 for the short-rest 4th level slots, by all means, but it isn't really necessary. At least you get EB for ranged damage in case you are prevented from closing with your opponent (flying opponents with ranged attacks, for example, or archers on balconies). Heck, with Repelling Blast and Grasp of Hador, you get some battlefield control in the process.

EK and Smiting don't really go all that well together because EK generally has better things to do with his spells than smite. Like, say, Fireball. Or Lightning Bolt. Or Haste.

[Klorox]

Hit Paladin11 and never run out of smites ever. And instead of a Greatsword, you can crank out 3 attacks per round with Polearm Mastery. If you want to go Warlock7 for the short-rest 4th level slots, by all means, but it isn't really necessary. At least you get EB for ranged damage in case you are prevented from closing with your opponent (flying opponents with ranged attacks, for example, or archers on balconies). Heck, with Repelling Blast and Grasp of Hador, you get some battlefield control in the process.

EK and Smiting don't really go all that well together because EK generally has better things to do with his spells than smite. Like, say, Fireball. Or Lightning Bolt. Or Haste.

Now here is where I'll take exception with this statement.

I have played an EK to a high level before, and I play point buy. INT is still a dump stat, and if it isn't, you're not as good a fighter as anybody else.

My spells were purely buffs. This was before the SCAG cantrips, of which I'd choose one or both if they were available.

I think I came up with this build because I absolutely loved my EK (I played a melee EK and an archer, both were awesome). The melee EK was basically a clone of this proposed character, but he never added paladin levels (I think his starting stats included a 13 INT and 8 CHA).

He was extremely effective and adding two paladin levels for the ability to drop smites like crazy makes him much better.

[Sir cryosin]

If you really want to be a smite Knight just stay full paladin. Use a glaive and pick up Pam and Gwm go OoV you can get up to 5 attacks.
1. Reaction as they come with in range
2. Main action
3. Extra attack (part of main action)
4. Bonus action from PAM
5. Free action given by haste spell

You can smite on any or all of these attacks also you get improved divine smite add to them all. You'll get 5th level spells to use on smites.

[Sans.]

So you're spamming your slots on smites. What do you actually get from Fighter? Action Surge, 3rd attack and... no, that's it.

[Klorox]

So you're spamming your slots on smites. What do you actually get from Fighter? Action Surge, 3rd attack and... no, that's it.

More ASI, and the two abilities you mentioned should not be minimized. JMO.

[Sorlock Master]

Too few spell slots for my taste. Your getting 3 attacks per turn if you smite with all 3 you are going to end up with 4 turns of combat before running out of spells if you smite with every attack.

I would go 12 lock/6 sorc/2pal. Take a race that has trance. The rest is obvious.

[sithlordnergal]

You know what, this might actually be very good choice.

Warlock 7 is all you need for smites going big as they cap at 4th level slots anyway.
Paladin 2 is simply for divine smite right? Another fighting style of course, but that's pretty minor thing.
Fighter 11 for that delicious third attack.

To top it all, consider this: you would have separate spell slots from spellcasting and pact magic. Use pact magic for smites (I'd spare them for crits only; you'll do insane damage anyway with GWM) and regular slots for the other spells you know.

If I'm not mistaken, you'd have (from regular spellcasting) four 1st-level slots and three 2nd-level slots. I'd say spare them for those Blessings, Shields and Misty Steps.

Two well placed critical smites with 4th-level slots are almost guaranteed to kill a target.

There are two problems that you need to take into account with a Warlock Smiting Build:

1) Warlock levels do not count towards your progression as a caster. Meaning whatever slots you had when you stopped going EK/Pal will be all the slots you get from those levels.

2) You only have 2 spell slots to use as a Warlock. Yes, they're 4th level, yes they recharge on a short rest, yes they can be used to cast other spells. But you only get 2 per short rest. If you go the route of:

EK- 11
Pal- 2
Warlock- 7

You will have the spell slots of a fourth level caster, 4 first level slots and 2 second, and the slots given to you by the warlock. You're really not going to get 4th level spell slots till level 18, since you need Warlock 5 to get 4th level slots. Either way, you only have two of those slots.

People seem to think that the short rest recharge slots are so amazing, they really aren't. They are highly dependent on the campaign, DM, and Group. For instance, my group takes one short rest per every 3-4 long rests. Yup, we hardly ever take any short rests at all, which means anything that is used as Short Rest abilities gets wasted. That said, we are an AL group and play a lot of modules, and short rests aren't exactly built into the modules. But even when playing the full printed campaign, we always have a wizard with a way to provide a safe long rest.

Next, even if your party gets plenty of short rests, that doesn't majorly matter. Yes, you'll get around the same number of spell slots as a normal caster with slots that recharge on a long rest over the course of a day, provided you get enough short rests. But that's just it, you get around that number over the course of a day. They are not accessible to you all day. In any given fight you have 2 at the most, and I doubt monsters will give you a short rest to recharge them in the middle of a fight. Which means when you go against that BBEG you only two 4th level slots to use in the fight, and six 2nd level or lower slots.

Compare that to the same build above that went Sorcerer instead of Warlock. They get a single 6th level slot, and max out their slots from 1st to 5th. You'll have 16 slots to smite with at the start of each day. Compared to the Warlock which starts at 8, 6 from EK and Paladin and 2 from Warlock, and needs 4 short rests just to get 16 slots like that.

[Arkhios]

There are two problems that you need to take into account with a Warlock Smiting Build:

1) Warlock levels do not count towards your progression as a caster. Meaning whatever slots you had when you stopped going EK/Pal will be all the slots you get from those levels.

2) You only have 2 spell slots to use as a Warlock. Yes, they're 4th level, yes they recharge on a short rest, yes they can be used to cast other spells. But you only get 2 per short rest. If you go the route of:

EK- 11
Pal- 2
Warlock- 7

You will have the spell slots of a fourth level caster, 4 first level slots and 2 second, and the slots given to you by the warlock. You're really not going to get 4th level spell slots till level 18, since you need Warlock 5 to get 4th level slots. Either way, you only have two of those slots.

People seem to think that the short rest recharge slots are so amazing, they really aren't. They are highly dependent on the campaign, DM, and Group. For instance, my group takes one short rest per every 3-4 long rests. Yup, we hardly ever take any short rests at all, which means anything that is used as Short Rest abilities gets wasted. That said, we are an AL group and play a lot of modules, and short rests aren't exactly built into the modules. But even when playing the full printed campaign, we always have a wizard with a way to provide a safe long rest.

Next, even if your party gets plenty of short rests, that doesn't majorly matter. Yes, you'll get around the same number of spell slots as a normal caster with slots that recharge on a long rest over the course of a day, provided you get enough short rests. But that's just it, you get around that number over the course of a day. They are not accessible to you all day. In any given fight you have 2 at the most, and I doubt monsters will give you a short rest to recharge them in the middle of a fight. Which means when you go against that BBEG you only two 4th level slots to use in the fight, and six 2nd level or lower slots.

Compare that to the same build above that went Sorcerer instead of Warlock. They get a single 6th level slot, and max out their slots from 1st to 5th. You'll have 16 slots to smite with at the start of each day. Compared to the Warlock which starts at 8, 6 from EK and Paladin and 2 from Warlock, and needs 4 short rests just to get 16 slots like that.

Why you had to make a post about exactly same things I was talking about, but just in other words, in a manner that, presumably, I had it somewhat wrong (which I didn't) is beyond me.

[djreynolds]

I think his build in fine. It will get the job done

If this rolls off from level 1. Fighter is maxing out strength at level 6.

4 ASI
6 ASI
8 Resilient wis
12 mage slayer
14 lucky
16 alert

I would take either defensive style and duelist style.

It is a good build, yes warlock and smiting and short rests is nice, but this build isn't depending too much on smites for damage but for really only nova bursts.

[Klorox]

I think his build in fine. It will get the job done

If this rolls off from level 1. Fighter is maxing out strength at level 6.

4 ASI
6 ASI
8 Resilient wis
12 mage slayer
14 lucky
16 alert

I would take either defensive style and duelist style.

It is a good build, yes warlock and smiting and short rests is nice, but this build isn't depending too much on smites for damage but for really only nova bursts.
I had proposed using ASI's to bump CON to 20, but the feats you mention will certainly make me think twice if I ever do play this character.

[djreynolds]

I had proposed using ASI's to bump CON to 20, but the feats you mention will certainly make me think twice if I ever do play this character.

I think with indomitable, lucky and mage slayer.... you can comfortably leave con at 16.

You will need all the help you can with your other saves.

Alert will allow you possibly to win initiative to action surge and wreck a caster with mage slayer.

You will probably need war caster as well in there.

[ignun]

in fact, I've been "studying" a build between warlock and eldritch knight. on the table I'm playing we roll attributes and I particularly played very well, and I was str18 - dex8 - con16 - int16 - wis14 - car16. the build I'm planning consists of 5lv in warlock and 15 in fighter, with the talents started in magic (warlock), war caster and alert. I can also have 3-level magic spaces, 3 invocations, 6 cantrips (booming blade, green flame blade, eldritch blast, mending, light, sleight of hand).

the spells are the most interesting part: darkness, haste, fireball, burning hands, shield, absorb elements, familiar, hex and blur should be my main spells. so with a plate armor + shield + darkness + diabolical vision, I have a great combo to get close to melee without being hit (19-24 AC + disadvantage to hit me).

the patron would be the hexblade and its beautiful curse that gives the critical margin 19-20 + recovery of life by killing, joining this with the invocation of the cursed blade now we can smite (wow, 3 levels of warlok later, at least I will already have access blade pact and stronger spellpots)

then build advantages
- high survival due to the fact of high AC + darkness
- You can use smite.
- has 3 invocations
- many cantrips
- constant and area damage (green flame blade + war magic)
- You can not be disarmed and you will always have a weapon by the hand
- improved critics, stealing life using the curse of the patron (no concentration required)

the disadvantages would be:
- few spaces of magic, although 2 of them recharge with a short rest
- the build needs high levels to start working in addition to high attributes (unless you do not mind discarding intelligence)

for my invocations I personally like the combo darkness + devil vision, the invocation of the hexblade and essential for smites (the subject of the discussion), then with this build you will have a fire / dark knight that smite, have a badass patron blade , and almost untouched.

Now let's talk about the super combos, in lv 12 (7EK / 5WL) you have 4 magic spaces of 1 level, 2 of second level and 2 of third level cast dark in your weapon and depart up with surge of action for a combo of 4 attacks. improved critical for the 4 attacks as stated above, using a large sword we have 2d6 + 4 (per attack) + 1 smites lv3 + 2 smite lv2 + 1 smite lv1 totaling:

8d6 + 12d8 + 12 (if you choose to use GWM this increases to 52 bonus damage)

Not bad, is it? if you want to forget darkness and improve the damage, use hex for a further 4d6 damage totaling 12d6 + 12d8 + 52.

[Klorox]

Interesting ignun, but what's it got to do with this thread?

[Chugger]

I'm still baffled by this concept. If someone wants to smite, why not get the slots and sorc pts from being a sorcerer? That's where smiting power is, it seems to me. Sorcadin can smite the pants off this low-synergy multi with the EK and lock.

[Arkhios]

Interesting ignun, but what's it got to do with this thread?

What doesn't it, though? It is Eldritch Knight that can Smite due to Warlock invocation, therefore another functional "Smite Knight" iteration.


I'm still baffled by this concept. If someone wants to smite, why not get the slots and sorc pts from being a sorcerer? That's where smiting power is, it seems to me. Sorcadin can smite the pants off this low-synergy multi with the EK and lock.

I dunno, maybe Eldritch Knight has something to do with the concept?

Plus, I can totally see the appeal to Fighter/Paladin mix because of same hit die and Con saves. (Not mentioning armor and weapon prof's because Paladin/Sorcerer does get them too)

[Klorox]

I'm still baffled by this concept. If someone wants to smite, why not get the slots and sorc pts from being a sorcerer? That's where smiting power is, it seems to me. Sorcadin can smite the pants off this low-synergy multi with the EK and lock.

Yes, a paladin/sorcerer will get many more slots to smite with.

This build is focused on more base attacks per round, more ASI, not taking an oath, and on being much less MAD.

I'm not saying it's better than a paladin/sorcerer, or a single classed paladin, but it is different.

I do appreciate your criticism, but this thread also isn't about the warlock either (that's evolved later).

[Sir cryosin]

in fact, I've been "studying" a build between warlock and eldritch knight. on the table I'm playing we roll attributes and I particularly played very well, and I was str18 - dex8 - con16 - int16 - wis14 - car16. the build I'm planning consists of 5lv in warlock and 15 in fighter, with the talents started in magic (warlock), war caster and alert. I can also have 3-level magic spaces, 3 invocations, 6 cantrips (booming blade, green flame blade, eldritch blast, mending, light, sleight of hand).

the spells are the most interesting part: darkness, haste, fireball, burning hands, shield, absorb elements, familiar, hex and blur should be my main spells. so with a plate armor + shield + darkness + diabolical vision, I have a great combo to get close to melee without being hit (19-24 AC + disadvantage to hit me).

the patron would be the hexblade and its beautiful curse that gives the critical margin 19-20 + recovery of life by killing, joining this with the invocation of the cursed blade now we can smite (wow, 3 levels of warlok later, at least I will already have access blade pact and stronger spellpots)

then build advantages
- high survival due to the fact of high AC + darkness
- You can use smite.
- has 3 invocations
- many cantrips
- constant and area damage (green flame blade + war magic)
- You can not be disarmed and you will always have a weapon by the hand
- improved critics, stealing life using the curse of the patron (no concentration required)

the disadvantages would be:
- few spaces of magic, although 2 of them recharge with a short rest
- the build needs high levels to start working in addition to high attributes (unless you do not mind discarding intelligence)

for my invocations I personally like the combo darkness + devil vision, the invocation of the hexblade and essential for smites (the subject of the discussion), then with this build you will have a fire / dark knight that smite, have a badass patron blade , and almost untouched.

Now let's talk about the super combos, in lv 12 (7EK / 5WL) you have 4 magic spaces of 1 level, 2 of second level and 2 of third level cast dark in your weapon and depart up with surge of action for a combo of 4 attacks. improved critical for the 4 attacks as stated above, using a large sword we have 2d6 + 4 (per attack) + 1 smites lv3 + 2 smite lv2 + 1 smite lv1 totaling:

8d6 + 12d8 + 12 (if you choose to use GWM this increases to 52 bonus damage)

Not bad, is it? if you want to forget darkness and improve the damage, use hex for a further 4d6 damage totaling 12d6 + 12d8 + 52.

OK first off start with fighter if you want heavy armor because you can't get prof in heavy armor through muiltilclassing. Two when you action surge and want to use war magic you can't. As the rules say for action surge you can take a action or a bonus action.

[Crgaston]

I like the OP's original concept. Yes, there are more "optimal" builds but concept wise this is great. Two things to point out... Lightning Lure is an amazing cantrip for this on a melee character once you get War Magic. Drag an attacker off an ally (no save) for up to 4d8 and then pop him with a smite.

Also, I'd strongly consider Paladin 3/ EK 17. You'd be trading the EK 18 feature (Improved War Magic) and a maximum 1 level delay on your other EK features for an extra spell slot, Oath spells, Disease immunity, 5 more Lay on Hands points, and Channel Divinity. AND you could be getting all those much earlier than L20.

[Crgaston]

OK first off start with fighter if you want heavy armor because you can't get prof in heavy armor through muiltilclassing. Two when you action surge and want to use war magic you can't. As the rules say for action surge you can take a action or a bonus action.

While it's true that you can't do the War Magic trick twice with Action Surge because you only get 1 bonus action, there's nothing preventing you from doing cantrip+bonus action attack (from War Magic)+attack action (from Action Surge). So at EK11, a cantrip+ 4 attacks, all with smite potential. And at EK15 you can throw a 30' teleport in there, too.

[Sir cryosin]

While it's true that you can't do the War Magic trick twice with Action Surge because you only get 1 bonus action, there's nothing preventing you from doing cantrip+bonus action attack (from War Magic)+attack action (from Action Surge). So at EK11, a cantrip+ 4 attacks, all with smite potential. And at EK15 you can throw a 30' teleport in there, too.

Ya you can and would be the best thing to do.

[ignun]

While it's true that you can't do the War Magic trick twice with Action Surge because you only get 1 bonus action, there's nothing preventing you from doing cantrip+bonus action attack (from War Magic)+attack action (from Action Surge). So at EK11, a cantrip+ 4 attacks, all with smite potential. And at EK15 you can throw a 30' teleport in there, too.

Yes, you can combo a lot more, for exemple with eldritch blast, you have the same amount of atacks but two of then will be ranged.

[ignun]

Interesting ignun, but what's it got to do with this thread?

This thread is about a smite knight, so i keep the EK and just change the class that give the ability to smite. With warlook as i mentioned you have less Spell slots, but they recharge in short rests, you have the invocations, more cantrips, the patron hexblade (that thing is soo good). So the concept is intact but with, in my opnion, more versatility.

[Klorox]

Well, hopefully I'll be able to give this character a shot soon. I've always liked Eldritch Knights, I've had success playing them in the past, and this is basically an EK with a 2 level dip in Paladin.

[ignun]

Well, hopefully I'll be able to give this character a shot soon. I've always liked Eldritch Knights, I've had success playing them in the past, and this is basically an EK with a 2 level dip in Paladin.

I like then too, and when i read some foruns i see that they are very underrated. Soo i tried to build the best as i can, and my dark gire knight as born :) later tell us how well you smite knight was.

[Specter]

Personally, I wouldn't go further than EK 8 if you want to smash, I mean smite. War Magic can be as good as 3 attacks, especially if you're aiming to tank, where Booming Blade goes a long way. Pal12/EK8 also gives you 6 ASI's (important since you're boosting 3 stats), some good 1st and 2nd-level Wizard spells (Shield, Absorb Elements, Find Familiar, something else like Blindness/Misty Step/Suggestion) and Improved Divine Smite.

If you're interested in only 2 Paladin levels, I see no reason not to take 3 and get Vengeance's sweet Channel Divinity.