Thoughts on lantern archons

[VoxRationis]

Last week, when I met with my gaming group, after we stopped playing D&D, several of us had a long talk about lantern archons. One of my friends was of the opinion that they're ridiculous, since they have DR well above twice their hit point total, their light rays ignore both most defenses and DR, they have an aura debuff, and they teleport at will—sorts of abilities that equivalent-level fiends just can't match, and that frankly are kind of above-weight for a CR 2 creature. Unless your archer gets lucky or has a very high Strength, they're not going to break its damage reduction, your melee fighters can't hit it, and there's a 50% chance that you'll need more than one magic missile, which your wizard may or may not have actually prepared in the first place. Even at higher levels, the lantern archon never becomes nonthreatening the way a low-level demon might be, because its attacks are as effective against a high-level target with tons of armor and DR as they would be against a 1st-level opponent.
I myself kind of love it for the same reasons. I love the image of the hordes of evil attacking the hosts of Heaven and then just getting kited to death, and I love the idea of some dark overlord getting harassed by a single lantern archon and having to grapple with the fact that, in spite of being small and fragile, it's a legitimately dangerous opponent that needs to be taken seriously, or else it will wear him down with hit-and-run attacks.

What do you guys think? Love the lantern archon? Hate it? Want it to be changed? Favorite uses for the light bulb of Good?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Well, anything with fast healing/regeneration will ignore it. Plus a lot of fiends can no-save blasphemy any number of lantern archons to death.

Lantern archons are cool. Non-martial but tricky to fight, celestial but mass-producable, useful abilities for day-to-day handling of petitioners--you immediately see why the celestial order keeps a ton of them around. They're just so practical.

[Bohandas]

I remember them being kind of garbage in combat when summoned in TOEE. Good as a distraction that'll stick around without being instantly killed but not much else

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, that DR is overcome by any sort of spell, as those ignore DR. They are powerful up until the point they are suddenly not. Their defenses are all ether no-sells or nothing. They ignore any hit under 10 points of damage, but are killed outright by any hit more than 15. At CR 2 a wizard can sonic snap at them followed by a magic missile and kill them without a save or attack roll (at level 1 a no attack roll, no save 1 point of damage is really useful as a 0th level spell). A flask of alchemist fire can kill them outright in a single hit and if you miss every time will still kill them in 4 throws.

At level 2 they are a threat that takes a little planning and some resources to beat. At level 4 they won't even register as a speed bump.

[Elkad]

I was thinking.. "just magic missile it. Even 1 is a 50% kill"
Then I realized it has Aid at will. So even at CL1 it's going to have 9.5hp, not 4, and any time it takes damage it can TP away, recast Aid, and TP back.

[Bronk]

Well, they do have relatively strong DR, and it might be pretty tough for a low level PC to beat, but it's DR10/evil and magic, so a lot of what you might consider their preferred opponents can slice right through it with no problems whatsoever.

That's always seemed weird to me... why wouldn't good outsiders seek to be - or be created to be - tougher against evil? Same goes for the evil outsiders. As it is, for DR, the best an angel can do is to wear one of those demon shirts from the MIC!

The other thing that bothers me about lantern archons is that I always think of them as glowing balls of light somewhere between golf ball sized and baseball sized. It doesn't help that the Order of the Stick comics show them as that size too! But no, they're small, not diminutive, meaning they're about basketball sized to medicine ball sized! That's just too big.

[Palanan]

I like them on principle, but they don’t strike me as overpowered, much less “ridiculous.”

In a recent Rise of the Runelords Game, I tried summoning one as combat support—only to see it killed in a single round. It served as a brief distraction, and soaked up one attack that otherwise might have pummeled a PC, but it was sadly not worth spending a full-round action to summon.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the little guys. They’re perky, sparkly, and they just want to help. They’re just not all that effective in a fight.

[KillianHawkeye]

I just got one of these guys as my wizard's new familiar, and it's pretty awesome so far!

I did notice the apparent size discrepancy, though. All the art makes them look like they should be Tiny sized, or possibly Diminutive, but definitely not Small. Since they're basically made of gas, maybe they're larger than they look? Maybe it's only the core of them that lights up, and the rest is more or less invisible? I dunno.

It's also a little weird that they have natural armor when they're the next thing to incorporeal.

Whatever. I'm using the stats for them as is, and they get a lot of great benefits from being a familiar to a mid-level wizard!

[Elkad]

By the time you can summon one at CL7, they aren't worth much other than as a messenger.

If you happen to actually meet one at L2, they are a problem.

[Bohandas]

Well, that DR is overcome by any sort of spell, as those ignore DR.

What about spells that deal slashing, bludgeoning, and/or piercing damage?

[Fouredged Sword]

They ignore DR. I know, weird. Spells specifically ignore DR of all types regardless of the type of damage they do.

[ExLibrisMortis]

They ignore DR. I know, weird. Spells specifically ignore DR of all types regardless of the type of damage they do.
But, according to CPsi, Metacreativity powers that deal slashing/piercing/bludgeoning damage do not ignore DR. A weird quirk of the rules. CPsi has more of those--pointless, careless, unintentional (perhaps?) nerfs.

[the_david]

Pathfinder has altered them quite a bit. Their will saves dropped and they now have DR10/evil (no magic).

Ofcourse they now have 2d10+2 for hit dice, and as a result their fortitude and reflex saves have gone up by one, as well as their BAB and the DC for aura of menace. They can also be summoned with a Summon Monster III spell, instead of Summon Monster IV.

[Town_Drunk]

Lantern archons are only threatening in numbers, and even then if someone has even a remotely high touch AC, they're not hitting it any time soon with only a +2 to touch. Just a thought.

[Fouredged Sword]

They are not built to fight players. A lantern archon's natural prey are dretches.

[Knaight]

Lantern archons are only threatening in numbers, and even then if someone has even a remotely high touch AC, they're not hitting it any time soon with only a +2 to touch. Just a thought.

Even at 20 dexterity, absent deflection bonuses and the like touch AC is only going to be 15. Hitting on a 13+ isn't exactly terrible odds.

[Bohandas]

They ignore DR. I know, weird. Spells specifically ignore DR of all types regardless of the type of damage they do.

Probably an oversight holdover from 3.0 when magic was the only thing that bypassed damage reduction

[Troacctid]

Lantern archons are arguably the best familiar in the game.