[3.5] need help to avoid TPK

[Fliggl]

TLDR: how can I avoid a TPK?

Started a tiefling campaign for my friends. They started at level 9 and couldn't choose druid, cleric, sorcerer nor wizard.
They have the mission to find a McGuffin in the first layer of baator.

The party:
TWF fighter
TWF ranger
Assasin
Bear warrior
And one found the gap and rolled an archivist (that's ok, because he's the healer/buffer - no druid spells or so)

So. They know now that they are going to fight devils. I'm planning on encounter them with some barbazu and kyton.
The quest-giving NPC sayed to the archivist something like “do you need something? Devils are known for some kind of resistance, aren't they?“
But except some healing potions they wouldn't nothing.

Next session they open the one-way gate to hell. And i think they aren't properly equiped (they have flaming weapons and so).

Now I'm planning another encounter with another party (different quest giver) which are properly equipped for the baator quest. When the PCs defeat them, they will have at least some silver and bane (evil outsider) weapons.

I made a party of 5 (same built rules) but now i think this encounter will lead into a TPK. This NPCs could do a lot of damage with one hit eg a leap attacking ninja with a holy bastard sword could do average 47 damage (under the best circumstances)

Should I confront them with some samurais?
What do you think?

And sorry for my spelling/grammer. No native speaker

Thanks

fliggl

[daremetoidareyo]

Drop some Druid and Ranger Scrolls also. Archivists are no fun if they don't get to taste the diversity that they are capable of

[zlefin]

what is the exact encounter they are going to be faced with?
and how well optimized are the players?

it seems like if you arrange a fight to give them appropriate gear; they should be able to face a suitable encounter without getting wiped.

[daremetoidareyo]

what is the exact encounter they are going to be faced with?
and how well optimized are the players?

it seems like if you arrange a fight to give them appropriate gear; they should be able to face a suitable encounter without getting wiped.

The players might befriend the other group and complete their task without getting any of the Loot drop

[flappeercraft]

Something I have done before to test was to get a copy of the sheets of the PC's and use that to make a test run with similar tactics of the players. That way you can know if it would work or not, if its too hard or too easy.

[Fliggl]

Drop some Druid and Ranger Scrolls also. Archivists are no fun if they don't get to taste the diversity that they are capable of

Good idea!


what is the exact encounter they are going to be faced with?
and how well optimized are the players?

it seems like if you arrange a fight to give them appropriate gear; they should be able to face a suitable encounter without getting wiped.

Some barbazu, some kyton. Boss will be a hamatula. Maybe one single erinyes encounter.

The optimization level isn't so high. 1 noob, 1 with little exp, rest moderate.
TWF fighter... bear warrior without pounce... you get it


The players might befriend the other group and complete their task without getting any of the Loot drop

And then they are a party of 10 with 5 “overpowerd“ DMNPCs... i don't like this idea. For that reason, i thout of making the other group LG. So they have to fight to get their gear.


Have them encounter a group of devils that are either being attacked, or were attacked, by an NPC party with gear suited for fighting devils. That way, the devils won't be at full strength, and the players can acquire or scavenge useful gear from the NPCs.

My plan for them is to stay longer in hell, so this could be a solution for one encounter, but not for the rest of the story


Something I have done before to test was to get a copy of the sheets of the PC's and use that to make a test run with similar tactics of the players. That way you can know if it would work or not, if its too hard or too easy.

They aren't the best tacticians. The bear warrior nearly died because of bad tactics at the last encounter (4 trolls)


Thanks for the input guys, lets continue

[daremetoidareyo]

Introduce them to a Sir Thogdar the one-eyed devil slayer. Thogdar will berate their gear and abilities mercilessly. He'll grill them about what they think they are going to accomplish and really berate their noobishness. He'll charge 50gp for fighting tactics scrolls that he's drawn up for different devil types. If you make him mean and funny enough, the PCs will love him.

[Dyllan]

I think you may have misunderstood what WhatThePhysics was recommending.

They come across the devils JUST as they defeat the other party. The Devils are weak, so your party can beat them. Then your party gets to loot the party that the Devils killed - and get the equipment they want off their corpses for the next fights.

[Fliggl]

I think you may have misunderstood what WhatThePhysics was recommending.

They come across the devils JUST as they defeat the other party. The Devils are weak, so your party can beat them. Then your party gets to loot the party that the Devils killed - and get the equipment they want off their corpses for the next fights.

And that's the solution! Thanks for clarifying

[weckar]

And then they are a party of 10 with 5 “overpowerd“ DMNPCs... i don't like this idea. For that reason, i thout of making the other group LG. So they have to fight to get their gear. I fail to see the logic here. Why would LGs not team up with other demon busters when they are traversing the Southern planes? That actually would make a fight less likely, I imagine.

[Calthropstu]

I fail to see the logic here. Why would LGs not team up with other demon busters when they are traversing the Southern planes? That actually would make a fight less likely, I imagine.
I am guessing the party itself is evil. A group of paladins come across a group of evil tieflings in Baator? It's likely going to result in a fight.

[emeraldstreak]

1. A full party of NPCs is always a very serious threat.

2. Don't force your players into things they aren't ready to appreciate yet. Let them struggle a while with their bad choices, then give them a chance for a fix - but at a price. When they realize what they want, let them have it, for example from a powerful Demon (they are killing devils after all), but this is a relationship that will get more complicated for them in the future...

[Fliggl]

I am guessing the party itself is evil. A group of paladins come across a group of evil tieflings in Baator? It's likely going to result in a fight.

Yeah, you are guessing right. It's a mixed party but they are all far away from good.

I will take up the idea with let them fight devils which are fighting against the npcs. When they arraive in time, the battle is still going. 2 or 3 devils vs one npc. This npc had a binding weapon so one leathal harmed devil couldn't flee via teleport.

What do you think should i give them?

I was thinking some bane (evil outsider), silver and binding weapon. The npcs will drop a holy (but useless for the neutral to evil) weapon also.

Anything else? I was thinking of some flying scroll, but the only divine fly spell i found was “swift fly“. Any other ideas for some nice archivist scrolls?

[Zordran]

Yeah, you are guessing right. It's a mixed party but they are all far away from good.


I was thinking some bane (evil outsider), silver and binding weapon. The npcs will drop a holy (but useless for the neutral to evil) weapon also.



If you're talking about the Holy weapon enhancement, it can be used by neutral creatures.

Divine flight is pretty much that, Air Walk, Wind Walk, and some of the Aspect spells.

[Fliggl]

Next friday we play again and I was thinking of the loot they will find when the PCs defeat the first encounter.

The encounter will be one bearded devil with half hp (bound - so no teleport) and a bunch (10 or so) of lemure which are “cleaning the scene“.

The -now dead- NPCs will drop:

2x Gauntlets of ogre power
1x bracers of deflection +4
1x adamantine full plate
3x scroll of identify
1x scroll of airwalk
1x bag of holding Typ III
1x wand of lesser vigor

+1 binding warhammer
+1 bane (evil outsider) composite longbow (+2str)
+2 holy glaive
+1 keen silver kukri
+1 binding kukri


Any other ideas? Some other scrolls or wands?

[Demidos]

Maybe add a scroll detailing some basic tactics and abilities that devils have, courtesy of the now dead NPCs. If your party is bad at tactics, it might partially be from a lack of knowledge regarding what exactly devils are capable of as much as a lack of skill, especially since you noted they were relatively new to the game.

A scroll with information like:
Devils can teleport at will, make sure they are hit by a binding weapon if you think they are likely to flee.
Devils are largely immune to fire-based attacks.
Devils are vulnerable to holy magic, and can also often be tricked into dropping their guard by offering to sell your soul to them.


Plus you can include relevant plot information such as:
A devil detachment under the third subsecretary of the 8th captain of the minor archduke of the 3rd region of the 6th layer of Hell should be moving through this area in two weeks. By the authority of the Arch-cleric of Pelor, stop their mobilization at all costs to prevent the end of the civil war currently engulfing the layer.

Or something of the like, to deepen the world and drop relevant information at the same time.

[Fliggl]

Maybe add a scroll detailing some basic tactics and abilities that devils have, courtesy of the now dead NPCs. If your party is bad at tactics, it might partially be from a lack of knowledge regarding what exactly devils are capable of as much as a lack of skill, especially since you noted they were relatively new to the game.

A scroll with information like:
Devils can teleport at will, make sure they are hit by a binding weapon if you think they are likely to flee.
Devils are largely immune to fire-based attacks.
Devils are vulnerable to holy magic, and can also often be tricked into dropping their guard by offering to sell your soul to them.


Plus you can include relevant plot information such as:
A devil detachment under the third subsecretary of the 8th captain of the minor archduke of the 3rd region of the 6th layer of Hell should be moving through this area in two weeks. By the authority of the Arch-cleric of Pelor, stop their mobilization at all costs to prevent the end of the civil war currently engulfing the layer.

Or something of the like, to deepen the world and drop relevant information at the same time.

Good point but one of the PCs is an archivist. With his dark knowledge ability he should be able to find all the info by himself