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View Full Version : Optimization Please help: I'm not enjoying my sorcerer in "Horde of the Dragon Queen".



Klorox
2017-09-08, 09:09 PM
The DM has been kind enough to allow me to switch characters. I like spellcasters, I had never tried a sorcerer before, but I miss the versatility of a wizard.

I'm considering a few different ideas. The rest of the party is composed of a halfling assassin, a human monk, a half orc barbarian, and a human cleric.

I can fill the versatile spellcaster role with a wizard, and fill it well. My character is a resident of Greenest (the town you start in), and is heavily invested in the towns well-being.

I was also considering a warlock. For those that don't know (very minor spoiler), the adventure starts off with this town being attacked. Since my character will be a member of the town, calling upon "anyone or anything" to aid him in defending the town sure fits with a warlock pact IMO.

Which class, or can you think of another that fills the holes in a team listed above?

I realize the draconic bloodline sorcerer is kind of an optimal choice (I can only assume I'll be talking to dragons at some point in this adventure), so if I stick with that, what classes fit well with a sorcerer multi-class?

We are all 3rd level. We use the standard array for stats and only use the material in the PHB.
TIA

Easy_Lee
2017-09-08, 09:39 PM
A bard could fit the party while still playing party face, filling a reasonably versatile role, and casting plenty of spells. Bard also is a decent multiclass with sorcerer. As is warlock, for that matter.

poolio
2017-09-08, 09:53 PM
Sorcerer isn't the most versatile caster, but it is a good buffer/support class, twin casting Haste on the barb and monk will add some crazy dpr to your team, but if it's versatility you're after then Bard would be a better choice, Worlock is way more limited with it's casting then sorcerer so I'm not sure if you'd like it much better.

RSP
2017-09-08, 10:28 PM
If the issue is you miss the Wizard's versatility, I don't know if any of Sorc, Warlock or Bard will fill that void as versitility is what Wizards do best.

However, any of those classes can be great in their own right, or multi classed.

I'm a huge fan of the Lore Bard and like Warlock a lot. Multiclassing the two (prob only need 2-3 levels of Warlock) is a great mix: EB, invocations and two 2nd level short rest spells are a great add on to the Bard chasis.

Sorc seems very dependent on how you want to play it and specific to its meta magic, but I'm looking forward to playing one at some point.

skaddix
2017-09-08, 10:59 PM
Well that was your mistake don't pick a sorcerer.

Ritorix
2017-09-08, 11:12 PM
It would help if we knew what kind of sorc you have been playing, race, spell selection, and what metas you took at level 3.

I've played through HODQ/ROT. A prewritten adventure like that points me more towards a damage or control build. With such a single-target-heavy group, I would either go with an invoker wizard, fiend warlock (for their bonus spell list), or a blasty dragon sorc with empower. They all do the same thing in slightly different ways.

I would probably choose the invoker if you have 3 or 4 melee party members that will be mixed in with the enemies. Round out AOE spell selections with disable spells like Hold Person and Banishment. Basically you either want to set your 3 damage PCs up for success (via Hold Person, etc), or help them out against overwhelming numbers (Fireball).

Klorox
2017-09-08, 11:20 PM
It would help if we knew what kind of sorc you have been playing, race, spell selection, and what metas you took at level 3.

I've played through HODQ/ROT. A prewritten adventure like that points me more towards a damage or control build. With such a single-target-heavy group, I would either go with an invoker wizard, fiend warlock (for their bonus spell list), or a blasty dragon sorc with empower. They all do the same thing in slightly different ways.

I would probably choose the invoker if you have 3 or 4 melee party members that will be mixed in with the enemies. Round out AOE spell selections with disable spells like Hold Person and Banishment. Basically you either want to set your 3 damage PCs up for success (via Hold Person, etc), or help them out against overwhelming numbers (Fireball).

My sorcerer is a half elf brass (fire) dragon bloodline sorcerer. He's got all the social skills and has a 16 CHA.

The spells I have are mage hand, prestidigitation, minor illusion, firebolt, burning hands, sleep, shield, scorching ray.

The metamagics I chose are quicken spell and twin spell.

I wouldn't mind staying sorcerer and tweaking him a little bit. I also wouldn't mind switching the race (say drow) and imitating that coffee caster. I'm not sure that would work too well with a game that tops out around level 7.

Klorox
2017-09-08, 11:25 PM
Well that was your mistake don't pick a sorcerer.

I would never know if I didn't try.

Beechgnome
2017-09-08, 11:55 PM
The big issue with sorcerers is the lack of spells. But honestly, just a one level dip in bard can be a big help: you get 4 spells! All 1st level, but they give you a chance to pick great twinned options like Tasha's Hideous Laughter and Dissonant Whispers, a rare Charisma save attack with Bane, and other versatile choices like Faerie fire, Charm person, or Heroism, a useful spell against dragon fear. I didn't even mention cure wounds, silent image, disguise self... Bards have among the most versatile 1st level spells?

Now you can blast AND control. And you also get bardic inspiration to Hand out like candy with your bonus actions. All the while staying a Charisma based full caster.

Once you get your bard dip, go back to levelling in sorcerer and maybe swap sleep and burning hands for higher level spells, and see if it's fun again. I'm betting it will be.

Ritorix
2017-09-08, 11:56 PM
My sorcerer is a half elf brass (fire) dragon bloodline sorcerer. He's got all the social skills and has a 16 CHA.

The spells I have are mage hand, prestidigitation, minor illusion, firebolt, burning hands, sleep, shield, scorching ray.

The metamagics I chose are quicken spell and twin spell.

I wouldn't mind staying sorcerer and tweaking him a little bit. I also wouldn't mind switching the race (say drow) and imitating that coffee caster. I'm not sure that would work too well with a game that tops out around level 7.

This character should be fine if you switched up your spell or meta selections. You aren't getting a lot of mileage out of twin with that spell list. You have nothing at level 1 or higher that is even twin-able and twin firebolt is a waste. Quicken isn't doing much for you yet either. You also only have a single 2nd-level spell, when you could have 2 by now at level 3 (one new, one swapped).

Sleep is pretty much done by level 3, and scorching ray is normally awesome but less so with your party makeup. It doesn't hit enough targets to matter really. Your group has one thing going for it: single target damage. You don't really need to add more of that.

So with 4 slots known, something like this should work:
Shield, Burning Hands, Blindness/Deafness, Hold Person

Combat priority:
Twin Hold Person on humanoids (basically insta-win a fight)
Twin Blindness on powerful non-humanoids (still hugely swings a fight, and not a concentration spell)
Burning Hands on 3+ targets (not a strong option, but eventually this becomes 'fireball everything')
Firebolt a single target (At this level, depending on Dex you might be better off shooting a crossbow)

At level 4 maybe pickup Misty Step as one of those rarely-used but lifesaving spells. At 5, swap Burning Hands for Fireball and also grab Counterspell. Twin Haste can wait to 6, slotting in under 'twin hold person' in priority.

I wouldn't multiclass this character. Pally/sorc with quickened hold person-smite crits is fun, but again you already have a rocking party that just needs some enabling.

Beelzebubba
2017-09-09, 05:15 AM
I can fill the versatile spellcaster role with a wizard, and fill it well.
I was also considering a warlock.

Which class, or can you think of another that fills the holes in a team listed above?
TIA

Warlock is a lot like a sorcerer; very limited set of abilities along a theme. I think you'd be re-creating the problem.

I'd go Wizard, Bard, Bard-Warlock multi-class, or Land Druid. Each of these have a TON of utility options and breadth.

GorogIrongut
2017-09-09, 05:53 AM
One level in Cleric gets you LOADS. Access to armour. More yummy spells. If you go knowledge than you get expertise in two skills off the bat. You could go War/Trickery/Nature/Death... There's a lot of possibilities there.

I would also second getting rid of Twin with your spell list. And even moreso if you do a 1 level dip into a Death Cleric... as you'll auto get twinned necro cantrips.

Solunaris
2017-09-09, 06:14 AM
This character should be fine if you switched up your spell or meta selections. You aren't getting a lot of mileage out of twin with that spell list. You have nothing at level 1 or higher that is even twin-able and twin firebolt is a waste. Quicken isn't doing much for you yet either. You also only have a single 2nd-level spell, when you could have 2 by now at level 3 (one new, one swapped).

Sleep is pretty much done by level 3, and scorching ray is normally awesome but less so with your party makeup. It doesn't hit enough targets to matter really. Your group has one thing going for it: single target damage. You don't really need to add more of that.

So with 4 slots known, something like this should work:
Shield, Burning Hands, Blindness/Deafness, Hold Person

Combat priority:
Twin Hold Person on humanoids (basically insta-win a fight)
Twin Blindness on powerful non-humanoids (still hugely swings a fight, and not a concentration spell)
Burning Hands on 3+ targets (not a strong option, but eventually this becomes 'fireball everything')
Firebolt a single target (At this level, depending on Dex you might be better off shooting a crossbow)

At level 4 maybe pickup Misty Step as one of those rarely-used but lifesaving spells. At 5, swap Burning Hands for Fireball and also grab Counterspell. Twin Haste can wait to 6, slotting in under 'twin hold person' in priority.

I wouldn't multiclass this character. Pally/sorc with quickened hold person-smite crits is fun, but again you already have a rocking party that just needs some enabling.

I'd like to add in here that if you can swapping Quicken for Empower or Subtle would also be a great choice. Depending on how your DM rules it Subtle makes spell almost impossible to counterspell and allows you to cast spell while hiding or in social settings. Empower on the other hand is great to have on hand for when you roll that handful of 1's on a big Burning Hands or Fireball. Nothing feels worse than dropping a Fireball and having it deal less than 16 damage.

TheUser
2017-09-09, 07:09 AM
I think most people have given very good feedback.
A single multiclass level in bard would give you 4 spells (instead of 1 from sorcerer). But I would tough it out to level 5 or 6 before making the change. Level 3 spells are a huge boost in power and you want them ASAP.

Your group has very little in the ways of AoE and having fireball is a game changer.

To that end I would swap Quicken for Empower. Quicken costs a lot of sorcery points and really isn't worth it until level 11 (when you have more sorcery points, better cantrips and access to SUNBEAM).

I noticed you have 1 attack cantrip of 1 element. My builds usually have 2 or 3 attack cantrips so fire resistance doesn't screw me. Shocking grasp and Ray of Frost/Chill Touch are real good to have for utility and to swap up attack types.

Time to drop the sleep spell. After level 3 it doesn't do enough to merit a spell known. Shield and Burning hands are enough for level 1 slots.

Hold Person will definitely see some mileage with twinned spell but I also encourage Phantasmal Force or Enlarge/Reduce. Both have cool in and out of combat utility. If your DM is letting you Twinned Scorching Ray (not technically rules legal) keep it. If your DM lets you trade out Quicken for Empower take shatter.

I honestly believe if you are able to make it to level 5 with empower and fireball....you'll never look back. At level 6 it's another +4 damage to your twinnable firebolts and +4 damage to your fireballs.

At 5 you won't need burning hands anymore so swap it for lightning bolt and you have two different elements and two shapes of AoE.

After that immense powerspike take a level in Bard for twinned heals and some more level 1 spells that aren't shield if you reeeeally feel at a loss.

Odds are you'll be feeling better and won't care anymore and will want those juicy level 4 spells.

If you're not having any fun feel free to give the wizard a spin. It sounds you want that versatility real bad so just give'er and go for it to maximize your fun.

Sir cryosin
2017-09-09, 08:00 AM
Take 2 levels in warlock for Eldritch blast and the invocation agonizing blast. Use that as your primary damage dealer. Then finish out as Sorcerer only picking support, buff, control spells maybe. Pick up a wand of fireball or magic missile, staff of fire. And scrolls get scrolls lot and lots. You can quicken a spell then use a wand or scroll.

ZorroGames
2017-09-09, 09:11 AM
Well that was your mistake don't pick a sorcerer.

Ex Post Facto criticism? No advice? You can do better.

ZorroGames
2017-09-09, 09:15 AM
On that note there is some very reassuring advice here so if I finally ever run my Mountain Dwarf Sorceror I will want to print this thread out for reference.

Klorox
2017-09-09, 10:06 AM
This character should be fine if you switched up your spell or meta selections. You aren't getting a lot of mileage out of twin with that spell list. You have nothing at level 1 or higher that is even twin-able and twin firebolt is a waste. Quicken isn't doing much for you yet either. You also only have a single 2nd-level spell, when you could have 2 by now at level 3 (one new, one swapped).

Sleep is pretty much done by level 3, and scorching ray is normally awesome but less so with your party makeup. It doesn't hit enough targets to matter really. Your group has one thing going for it: single target damage. You don't really need to add more of that.

So with 4 slots known, something like this should work:
Shield, Burning Hands, Blindness/Deafness, Hold Person

Combat priority:
Twin Hold Person on humanoids (basically insta-win a fight)
Twin Blindness on powerful non-humanoids (still hugely swings a fight, and not a concentration spell)
Burning Hands on 3+ targets (not a strong option, but eventually this becomes 'fireball everything')
Firebolt a single target (At this level, depending on Dex you might be better off shooting a crossbow)

At level 4 maybe pickup Misty Step as one of those rarely-used but lifesaving spells. At 5, swap Burning Hands for Fireball and also grab Counterspell. Twin Haste can wait to 6, slotting in under 'twin hold person' in priority.

I wouldn't multiclass this character. Pally/sorc with quickened hold person-smite crits is fun, but again you already have a rocking party that just needs some enabling.
Thank you very much, one multiclass I wouldn't consider is paladin. I'm the one character who doesn't need to be up in an enemies face, and I like it that way.

The earlier bard dip is interesting, but if I stick with sorcerer, one thing I won't be doing is multiclassing before I can get myself fireball. And that level 6 ability (with my potential 18 CHA) is just awesome as well.

Perhaps switching up my spells or metamagics a bit is what I need. As I said, this is my first sorcerer, so I'm not really sure what's the right or wrong choices with the class.

Thanks everybody. Keep up the good work!

Tanarii
2017-09-09, 10:14 AM
The spells I have are mage hand, prestidigitation, minor illusion, firebolt, burning hands, sleep, shield, scorching ray.

The metamagics I chose are quicken spell and twin spell.If you were my player and you told me you missed wizard versatility, I'd ask two a bunch of questions:
1) why did you pick suck a non-versatile spells known list? You've built a blaster with your spells known.
2) Not only that, your metamagics support being a cantrip blaster. Would swapping them out to something more useful to your spells known make you happier?
3) what two addition prepared spells would make you feel more versatile if you were a wizard? Can you swap out Shield and Sleep for them, and be happy? How about something interesting and fun as a level 2 spell instead Burning Hands?
4) would you be happier if you dropped the almost completely useless Prestidigitation cantrip, and picked up a useful cantrip instead? Cantrips are a Sorcs bread and butter, and you've got a dead cantrip slot.
5) Is it having 4 rituals in your Spellbook to cast that you miss? (IMX Most common Wizard spellbook load-out at lvl 3 is 6 prepared spells + 4 rituals.)

Unless it's the rituals in your spellbook you miss, it seems like fixing your versatility issues should be fixable just by reworking your character a bit.

90sMusic
2017-09-09, 12:09 PM
My friend, stick with sorcerer, just multiclass a 2 level dip into warlock for Agonizing Blast. The other invocation can be whatever you think you'll need most: at-will disguise self, at-will speak with animals, whatever.

With Eldritch blast + agonizing blast, you can use quicken to fire off two of those bad boys every round and cannibalize your spell slots to fuel that crazy damage.

You can use your short-rest-reset spell slot to throw up hex and you're golden.

I don't know what level you are, but assuming you're at least 5th level you should be able to pump out 4d10 + 4d6 + 16 to 20 force damage every round for the measly cost of 2 sorcery points. Sorcerers don't have the best utility or versatility in the game, but youd still have a bit and you would also be a damage powerhouse. Use Eldritch Blast and Fireball for basically all of your damage dealing needs, use your other spells known for utility.

Tanarii
2017-09-09, 12:15 PM
Multi classing a Warlock 2 dip is just going to make the lack of versatility worse as you level up. Not better. You'll constantly be a full spell level behind on spell slots and 2 class levels behind spells known. In return for 2x1st slots per short rest and 3 1st spells known.

jaappleton
2017-09-09, 12:23 PM
Bard.

I played one for quite a long time and I loved it. It gets everything, really.

You have tons of skills, with Expertise.
You have Inspiration Dice to help allies and hinder foes, depending on your College.
You remain a spellcaster, which you like.
You can be a fairly decent warrior, or an excellent mage, depending on your College.

As a Bard, you nearly always can attempt a solution. You'll always be able to contribute. You'll never not be able to try to help in some way.

There's a stigma about Bards, especially regarding the whole "Oh I don't really do anything, I have to be musical and crap"

LOLNO

Forget about that. Nothing about a Bard pigeonholes you into that if you don't want to. I've seen Bards played as stage magicians, using misdirection, charm, and guile. NOTHING regarding music.

Bards really are one of the absolute best classes in the game for 5E. Their only real 'weakness' is their lack of offensive cantrips, essentially being restricted to Vicious Mockery, but they offer so much more to make up for it. And Magic Initiate can fix the cantrip issue.

cZak
2017-09-09, 07:56 PM
The rest of the party is composed of a halfling assassin, a human monk, a half orc barbarian, and a human cleric.

Pretty solid support base for a party.
Lots of potential for in the enemy's face (barbarian & monk) & still have some potential range options (assassin & monk).

Like most of the advice given, I think a rework of spells & purpose could offer some satisfaction; follow the Zen of Treatmonk.

Have your available 'plinking' spell or two. I always liked the riders over the flash of spells. Opportunity to be tactical vice just opponants beating on each other. Ray o Frost, Chill touch, etc...

And look into what might make your group better; buff, debuff & control.
Exp retreat, Enlarge*
Thunderwave#, Blindness*, Hold person*
Fog cloud, Silent image, Gust o wind#, Phantasmal force, Web#
* good with Twin metamagic
# good with Careful metamagic

I'm starting to think quicken may be a bit of a trap in the metamagic realm. I understand there are situations where it shines, but
with the restrictions of one spell & a cantrip in an Action, and the cost in limited sorcery points available, I'm not so sure it's that good...

mephnick
2017-09-09, 10:24 PM
I'm starting to think quicken may be a bit of a trap in the metamagic realm.

It is a trap..at low levels. It seems like the best MM at first glance, but Quicken is only really good for 2 things:

1. Sorcerers with good uses other than spells for their main action ie. Sorcadin attacks/smites.

2. Casting spells while concentrating on spells you expend actions to maintain. IE. Maintaining Telekinesis while throwing out quickened Lightning Bolts.

For most low level sorcerers neither of these things are applicable.

Klorox
2017-09-11, 04:10 AM
If you were my player and you told me you missed wizard versatility, I'd ask two a bunch of questions:
1) why did you pick suck a non-versatile spells known list? You've built a blaster with your spells known.
2) Not only that, your metamagics support being a cantrip blaster. Would swapping them out to something more useful to your spells known make you happier?
3) what two addition prepared spells would make you feel more versatile if you were a wizard? Can you swap out Shield and Sleep for them, and be happy? How about something interesting and fun as a level 2 spell instead Burning Hands?
4) would you be happier if you dropped the almost completely useless Prestidigitation cantrip, and picked up a useful cantrip instead? Cantrips are a Sorcs bread and butter, and you've got a dead cantrip slot.
5) Is it having 4 rituals in your Spellbook to cast that you miss? (IMX Most common Wizard spellbook load-out at lvl 3 is 6 prepared spells + 4 rituals.)

Unless it's the rituals in your spellbook you miss, it seems like fixing your versatility issues should be fixable just by reworking your character a bit.
1)I've never played one before and wanted to experience it.
2)Possibly
3)Switching spells is another possibility
4)I'm not sure. Prestidigitation isn't "useful" but it is fun. I've always liked getting creative with it, and it feels magicky.
5)I'm not sure, but the ritual caster feat is a possibility.


My friend, stick with sorcerer, just multiclass a 2 level dip into warlock for Agonizing Blast. The other invocation can be whatever you think you'll need most: at-will disguise self, at-will speak with animals, whatever.

With Eldritch blast + agonizing blast, you can use quicken to fire off two of those bad boys every round and cannibalize your spell slots to fuel that crazy damage.

You can use your short-rest-reset spell slot to throw up hex and you're golden.

I don't know what level you are, but assuming you're at least 5th level you should be able to pump out 4d10 + 4d6 + 16 to 20 force damage every round for the measly cost of 2 sorcery points. Sorcerers don't have the best utility or versatility in the game, but youd still have a bit and you would also be a damage powerhouse. Use Eldritch Blast and Fireball for basically all of your damage dealing needs, use your other spells known for utility.

While I see the blasting potential here (as well as the whole recharging sorcerery points with warlock slots), I'm concerned because if I stick with sorcerer, I basically get agonizing blast for free with firebolt. I mean, it's not quite as good, but the benefits outweigh losing two sorcerer levels IMHO.

And I'm currently 3rd level (it's in the OP)

Pretty solid support base for a party.
Lots of potential for in the enemy's face (barbarian & monk) & still have some potential range options (assassin & monk).

Like most of the advice given, I think a rework of spells & purpose could offer some satisfaction; follow the Zen of Treatmonk.

Have your available 'plinking' spell or two. I always liked the riders over the flash of spells. Opportunity to be tactical vice just opponants beating on each other. Ray o Frost, Chill touch, etc...

And look into what might make your group better; buff, debuff & control.
Exp retreat, Enlarge*
Thunderwave#, Blindness*, Hold person*
Fog cloud, Silent image, Gust o wind#, Phantasmal force, Web#
* good with Twin metamagic
# good with Careful metamagic

I'm starting to think quicken may be a bit of a trap in the metamagic realm. I understand there are situations where it shines, but
with the restrictions of one spell & a cantrip in an Action, and the cost in limited sorcery points available, I'm not so sure it's that good...


I'm really starting to think reworking a could of spells and dropping quicken metamagic for another (which one?) would really do the trick.

I definitely see the power in reaching level 6 as a draconic bloodline sorcerer before multiclassing. I do like the idea of rounding out my social face role of the party with an eventual bard level, perhaps at character level 7 or 8.

Thank you so much for all the help everyone contributed here (except one person who just doesn't like the class, but he's entitled to his opinion as well).

I look forward to analyzing the minor tweaks I can do to make my sorcerer more effective and more fun.

Thanks again!

TheUser
2017-09-11, 05:06 AM
I'm really starting to think reworking a could of spells and dropping quicken metamagic for another (which one?) would really do the trick.



Seeing as the group you are in has no blasting potential going with empower spell metamagic and shatter instead of sleep is a good start.

Mandragola
2017-09-11, 06:00 AM
Personally I don't like to multiclass spellcasters. I don't think anything is worth the loss of spell progression, basically.

On the whole I think, as others have said, that it's your spell selection that's the issue. I played a sorceror in hotdq. The only damage-dealing spell I had (other than cantrips) was fireball.

You can be a controller as a sorceror. You just need to choose your spells really carefully. Sleep is good. Hold person and similar are interesting with twin spell. Fear is really powerful, as is counterspell.

A god sorceror isn't as easy to create as a god wizard, but it's not hopeless. You should probably drop scorching ray as damage just isn't a good use of your spell slots and actions. It doesn't do enough to justify itself.

Byke
2017-09-11, 08:14 AM
Is UA allowed?

If so and your DM allows you to change subclass as well Shadow Sorcerer X / 2 Hexblade is IMO one of the strongest multi-class combination for Sorcerer currently.

I would go 3 sorc/ 2 Hex / Sorc X

Early on I prefer either Subtle or Empower (depending on the game) and take Quicken at 10th level sorc. If you go Warlock you can recover Sorcery points on a short rest so Quicken is still viable if you prefer.

KorvinStarmast
2017-09-11, 08:24 AM
Personally I don't like to multiclass spellcasters. I don't think anything is worth the loss of spell progression, basically. Yeah. That's my feeling.

Byke
2017-09-11, 08:47 AM
Yeah. That's my feeling.

I’m currently playing Pal/Sorc and Sorc/Lock in two different campaigns and I disagree, being one spell level behind does "sucks" initially, but once you get to 5th level Sorc its fine. (Prior to getting 5th level sorcerer you’re basically an archer with utility spells)

For example taking two levels Hexblade gives:

- Medium Armor & Shield
- Martial weapon prof (For those times you want to be stylish and quicken GFB or twin BB) or for those times your tank goes down or you need to off tank. (You are very tanky with medium armor, shield and shield spell))
- + Char to hit and dam with weapon (see above)
- Hex Curse is when you are fighting the solo boss mob (great dam boost)
- More cantrips & 3- 1st Spells Hex, AoA and whatever tickles your fancy.
- Best sustained damage via Eldritch blast + Agonizing Blast invocation, Throw in Repelling for more control.
- Short rest sorcery point recovery = to our 20th level capstone.

Ravinsild
2017-09-11, 10:29 AM
We are all 3rd level. We use the standard array for stats and only use the material in the PHB.
TIA


Is UA allowed?

Hmmmm I wonder....

Byke
2017-09-11, 10:39 AM
Hmmmm I wonder....

I missed it...my bad..that said 2 levels of GOO or fiedlock is just as good. minus the armor.

Ravinsild
2017-09-11, 10:44 AM
I missed it...my bad..that said 2 levels of GOO or fiedlock is just as good. minus the armor.

I agree. Although I prefer fiend myself. Not a fan of outsider weirdos lol

Klorox
2017-09-20, 04:54 AM
Thanks everybody. I switched around my metamagics and a spell or two and I had a much better feeling last session.

I really would consider that bard dip, but not until I reach level 6 as a bard first (I like the idea of adding CHA to my fire spells a lot).

Beechgnome
2017-09-20, 06:32 AM
Thanks everybody. I switched around my metamagics and a spell or two and I had a much better feeling last session.

I really would consider that bard dip, but not until I reach level 6 as a bard first (I like the idea of adding CHA to my fire spells a lot).

Glad to hear it went well.

Citan
2017-09-20, 07:11 AM
Thanks everybody. I switched around my metamagics and a spell or two and I had a much better feeling last session.

I really would consider that bard dip, but not until I reach level 6 as a bard first (I like the idea of adding CHA to my fire spells a lot).
Hey ;)
I found this thread far too late to give advice in time, but I'd be interested in knowing how you tweaked spells.
In case you are still open to suggestions, considering...

The DM has been kind enough to allow me to switch characters. I like spellcasters, I had never tried a sorcerer before, but I miss the versatility of a wizard.

I'm considering a few different ideas. The rest of the party is composed of a halfling assassin, a human monk, a half orc barbarian, and a human cleric.

I can fill the versatile spellcaster role with a wizard, and fill it well. My character is a resident of Greenest (the town you start in), and is heavily invested in the towns well-being.

I was also considering a warlock. For those that don't know (very minor spoiler), the adventure starts off with this town being attacked. Since my character will be a member of the town, calling upon "anyone or anything" to aid him in defending the town sure fits with a warlock pact IMO.

Which class, or can you think of another that fills the holes in a team listed above?

I realize the draconic bloodline sorcerer is kind of an optimal choice (I can only assume I'll be talking to dragons at some point in this adventure), so if I stick with that, what classes fit well with a sorcerer multi-class?

We are all 3rd level. We use the standard array for stats and only use the material in the PHB.
TIA

My sorcerer is a half elf brass (fire) dragon bloodline sorcerer. He's got all the social skills and has a 16 CHA.

The spells I have are mage hand, prestidigitation, minor illusion, firebolt, burning hands, sleep, shield, scorching ray.

The metamagics I chose are quicken spell and twin spell.

I wouldn't mind staying sorcerer and tweaking him a little bit. I also wouldn't mind switching the race (say drow) and imitating that coffee caster. I'm not sure that would work too well with a game that tops out around level 7.

I'd switch Scorching Ray for Enhance Ability: since by RAI the Draconic bonus would apply only one one roll, Scorching Ray really feels lackluster overall, especially when you will get Fireball and automatic Firebolt bump later (I know it's not the same use, but no time to explain in detail while I think Scorching Ray is usually not worth the slot unless you take UA material to go with, or at least Warlock's Hex).
Meanwhile, there are always several checks in any given day, so Enhance Ability will certainly have a chance to shine, and you also can twin it too: need to find hidden doors? Advantage on WIS. You have a really hard negociation ahead? Advantage on CHA. You fight strong creatures and an ally has been grappled or entangled? Advantage on STR checks. Etc etc.

Just this one spell makes you tremendously more valuable to the party, every single day. ;)
I would probably trade Sleep for either Hold Person or Phantasmal Force on next level up, unless you still uses it for infiltration (putting away a lone guard, or unsuspecting servants, or even someone you want to kidnap without harm).

Otherwise, if you want to expand spell selection, the best ways are...
- Life Cleric: if you can afford the WIS, you get (Twin) Healing Words, (Twin) Sanctuary, (Twin) Shield of Faith, plus better armor, and Bless (so your Cleric pal could instead concentrate on another spell, like Spirit Guardians, or you could both Bless the whole party).
- Bard: 2 more cantrips and 4 more spells, plus long-rest BI.
- Warlock: best ranged cantrip, + a utility for quicks, and (Twin) Hex or (Quicken) Armor of Agathys that can be upcast.
- Ritual Caster (Wizard): it would delay your CHA progression by a significant amount, but if your DM tends to be generous with players, this is in fact your best shot: many great spells that you only can get in the first place, tremendous utility outside of fights so you can keep most of your spellcasting fuel for encounters, and no delay in spellcasting progression.