UA September?

[Regitnui]

I was more excited for my latest D&D purchase to arrive; a hard copy of Volo's Guide, so I might have missed the announcement. Did we get a UA this last Monday? Was there a delay?

[Beechgnome]

It is coming Monday, I believe. Mearls tweeted before the long weekend it would be following week. He said it would be 'a fun one.' Not sure everyone will consider that a good sign.

[Foxhound438]

They usually dont release on holidays.

But hopes are high that it'll be a good one. They had an extra week to put something together, so even if its another redundant rules replacement it shouldn't be as clunky as the weird init or exp variants.

[Rebonack]

It is coming Monday, I believe. Mearls tweeted before the long weekend it would be following week. He said it would be 'a fun one.' Not sure everyone will consider that a good sign.

Oooh, a fun one this time around?

Rules for allowing different forms of difficult terrain to stack, maybe?

[DracoKnight]

Oooh, a fun one this time around?

Rules for allowing different forms of difficult terrain to stack, maybe?

Honestly, I wouldn't put it passed them :smalltongue:

[SharkForce]

september UA: "No really guys, I swear the initiative system you said you didn't like every time i put it somewhere new is super awesome, you're just not trying hard enough".

at this point, that's about the level i'm expecting. hopefully, there's only room to go up from there, but you never know these days.

[Mortis_Elrod]

september UA: "No really guys, I swear the initiative system you said you didn't like every time i put it somewhere new is super awesome, you're just not trying hard enough".

at this point, that's about the level i'm expecting. hopefully, there's only room to go up from there, but you never know these days.

Who knows, could be a new system for rolling for your AC every round, adding and subtracting different dice based off of what your character is holding/doing.

Wouldn't that be 'fun' ?

[SharkForce]

Who knows, could be a new system for rolling for your AC every round, adding and subtracting different dice based off of what your character is holding/doing.

Wouldn't that be 'fun' ?

well there you go, you could be on their UA team with ideas like that.

[Mortis_Elrod]

well there you go, you could be on their UA team with ideas like that.

I wish. First thing imma do is ask alot of questions and i better get answers. Then start pumping out weekly UA, force a new book into existence. Maybe some new weapons, magic items, spells, and other ways to use magic. wouldn't that be fun?

[Temperjoke]

I have to admit, I know it was a lot of work for them, but I kinda miss the weekly class UAs. They really broke up the constant circular arguing that happens on these forums.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Maybe we could get a UA giving us rules and regulations in how to drill then form a proper phalanx with our party.

Perhaps rolls every 15 minutes when on watch?

Maybe how decide iniative based on which standing positions our characters are in?
;)

[Hrugner]

Maybe how decide iniative based on which standing positions our characters are in?
;)

Yes, that's it! Facing and inertia rules for players in motion must be next on the list.

[Rynjin]

My money is on reintroducing weapon speed Initiative modifiers and facing rules for shields.

[Foxhound438]

I wish. First thing imma do is ask alot of questions and i better get answers. Then start pumping out weekly UA, force a new book into existence. Maybe some new weapons, magic items, spells, and other ways to use magic. wouldn't that be fun?

I dunno about fun, but it sounds pretty 4e to just force books out before they're ready

[Regitnui]

I dunno about fun, but it sounds pretty 4e to just force books out before they're ready

I'd have certainly unlocked the lesser-used settings for DMsGuild by now. I get not the remaining two of the big three (Eberron and Dark Sun) and Dragonlance, since those keep being brought up in the books and so are sure to come up again, eventually, with official books. What about stuff like Hollow World and Birthright, things that they dropped for 3.5e and 4e. Let the fans bring them back.

[Kane0]

Ooh damn, so cynical.

I'm hoping for something I can adapt, like some good ol' fashioned hexcrawl tips/rules or some more depth to epic boons.

[DracoKnight]

I guess we find out today just how committed to unnecessary "fixes" Mearles is.

[Secret Wizard]

Ya guys guessing UA: Alternative Rules for Determining Diagonal Distances will be dropping tonight at 9pm PST?

[Dudewithknives]

I will guess it will be one of three things:

1. A huge chart for how to randomize character creation like they did in pathfinder backstories.

2. Introduction of some prestige classes.

3. An optional alternative to the spell point system.

No chance it is actually anything useful or anything people have been asking about.

[Aett_Thorn]

My guess is: Complete Rules for Helmets

Impacts to AC, Perception, and everything you've ever wanted to know about eye slits.

[Pichu]

How about weapon and armor damage over time rules, or downtime rules? Maybe an Eberron sports handbook? Or even feats...for metamagic! Destroy the Sorcerer! Anyways, I'm hoping for Epic Boon expansion or more subclasses.

[nickl_2000]

Update to Armor class rules and attacking rules, THACO for the win!

[orange74]

Complete Guide to Ablutions.

[JBPuffin]

Since it's dropping today, I'll offer my vote: something that will be less well-thought than "they've had an extra week" would lead you to believe, but better than the Lore Wizard. I'm also going to guess it'll be something more monster-y. Advice on creating monsters that feel monstrous? New legendary/lair actions for DMs to use? Something like that would be cool, I think.

[Foxydono]

My guess is a revised version of the Mystic class so it can be included in Xanathar's Guide to Everything!

[Maxilian]

My guess is a revised version of the Mystic class so it can be included in Xanathar's Guide to Everything!

I think they pointed out that Mystics won't be in XGE

[Steampunkette]

Last month they did 3 pillars XP path.

This month I'm going to hazard a guess that they'll expand on that basic idea and try to create new social and exploration systems for character abilities to interact with.

Either that, or new animal-handling uses like training your mounts and animal companions to poop outside of camp or not to scratch the furniture when you're in some noble's manor.

[Dr.Samurai]

Either that, or new animal-handling uses like training your mounts and animal companions to poop outside of camp or not to scratch the furniture when you're in some noble's manor.
LMFAO!! :smallbiggrin:

[Foxydono]

I think they pointed out that Mystics won't be in XGE
Lies, all lies! There goes my optimism, although an UA on Mystic is still possible, so I'll stick with my guess :)

[alchahest]

I'm guessing it'll be Crafting: Why we made it bad. instead of offering new rules it'll just be defending the lack of interesting support for it

[JakOfAllTirades]

Custom backgrounds for Ghostwise Halflings and Deep Gnomes.

Cuz we really need those!

[Aett_Thorn]

Feats for Backgrounds!

Feats for Stats!

Feats for Hair Color!

Feats for Feats!

All the feats!

[Secret Wizard]

Honestly, I'd love seeing Feats for Classes.

Could fix some mechanical issues.

[KorvinStarmast]

My money is on reintroducing weapon speed Initiative modifiers and facing rules for shields. In the name of all that is saving throws, please, not that.
I'm guessing it'll be Crafting: Why we made it bad. instead of offering new rules it'll just be defending the lack of interesting support for it Crafting isn't important to play, unless your whole table is full of people for whom crafting is important to play. In that case, work it out with your DM. It does not need more rules. There's enough in the DMG to handle it, but one needs to do some thinking and work on it.

[Beechgnome]

It's up: race options, Eladrin and Gith.

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/race-options-eladrin-and-gith

[Aett_Thorn]

It's up: race options, Eladrin and Gith.

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/race-options-eladrin-and-gith

Well that wasn't much, but it was better than expected!

[Sirdar]

Several Gith-threads on GitP last week!

This forum is one step ahead! :-)

[JBPuffin]

Lies, all lies! There goes my optimism, although an UA on Mystic is still possible, so I'll stick with my guess :)

It's a DMsGuold product now; they'll update it every now and again, and you'll find the latest version there.

I like this Eladrin better (it's literally better in every way), and the Gith are interesting. There's so little they hold in common, but what they do have ties them together nicely. Props, WotC. Now, let's see how the professionals pick these apart, because there are certainly quibbles to be had. :P

[SharkForce]

Well that wasn't much, but it was better than expected!

well, they've set themselves a rather low bar recently. better than expected is like when your doorbell rings, you anwer, and it isn't a brown paper lunch bag on fire and probably full of poo.

still, at this point, i have to admit... i'm glad it's not a flaming bag of poo. i wouldn't say it's particularly great, but not sucking horribly *is* an improvement.

[Unoriginal]

So, who else think those two races are foreshadowing that the next big boog is a Manual of the Planes?

[Chunkosaurus]

The eladrin are interesting. I really like the Githzerai option and may roll up a gith at some point. The extra AC is super nice. Their spell list is super nice in comparison to the Githyanki.

[treecko]

Eladrin: seems like a quite powerful and very flexible subrace. +dex +choice of chr or int fits a good amount of characters. Misty step per short rest is good, especially when it's not technically a spell so they can still racial misty step and cast. Extra cantrip is nice as well.

On the downside, their seasons thing seems a little annoying on the RP end.

Gith: Both have weird combos of stats and racials that make them hard to fit into the existing classes. However, they seem made for the mystic, with int bonuses and ways to gain more AC. I wouldn't be surprised to see an official version of these when the mystic comes out.

[Regitnui]

"Overcome with contentment"... so, Autumn is the neutral state then? Or it would be if your Eladrin isn't afflicted with psychological disorders like manic-depression or ADHD? Actually, I'd suspect that an eladrin would be suffering from some kind of mental disorder... Which could make an interesting character.

And the Gith... I won't say that's bad. I'm just unmoved. I've never really used them in a campaign.

[Dudewithknives]

Ok so one race that gets an Int Bonus, AND gets light and medium armor, and a floating skill of anything they want.

Expect to see many Gith wizards and mystics walking around in their half plate with a smile.
I have a problem with a race that gives a casting stat boost and proficiency in 2 levels of armor.

The other sub race is the only easy way to get +2 wisdom, and they get a free floating AC if unarmored.
As it stands I do not think many people will have a problem with it. Strong but not broken I don't think.

Never had even the slightest interest in playing an Eladrin, and this did not change that.

[Llama513]

I think both races are cool, but as a lover of monk, I am really excited to see the githzerai return as a playable race, as it may foreshadow a mystic monk, and even if it doesn't I am still going to make a multiclass between the two

[Rowan Wolf]

I think the season based traits are a attempt to (in mechanics anyway) the fey nature of the eladrin.

[Aett_Thorn]

I think the season based traits are a attempt to (in mechanics anyway) the fey nature of the eladrin.

I agree, but it just seems a bit clunky to me. "Oh, what is my personality like right now? It depends on what kind of situation we're in." Just trying to keep track of that during play seems like it would make things more complicated than they need to be. I think that having them as optional character traits and flaws would be a better way to do it.

[Regitnui]

I think the season based traits are a attempt to (in mechanics anyway) the fey nature of the eladrin.

Agreed, but it's interesting. Now I think interesting is good. Others might not. The seasons might be ironed into subraces ("courts" in flavour) if the Eladrin ever sees the light of day in official releases.

[Nicrosil]

I really like these! The Githzerai with their Wis bonus, +1 unarmored AC, and the shield spell, could be useful making unarmored Clerics without dipping Monk. Actually, Githzerai are just straight up great Monks...

For the Eladrin, I agree that their four sub-subraces could be annoying, but if I were to play one, I would stick to one season and only change it if something really important in the story happens. If a party member I was close to died, I would switch to winter (or summer!), or switch to spring when we completed an important quest. So, basically the same way I would play a normal character.

[Waterdeep Merch]

May wonders never cease, I kind of like these three. Githyanki are a little overpowered (in particular for wizards and mystics) and githzerai a little underpowered (+int and wis isn't a useful spread for any existing class), but on the whole they're pretty balanced and flavorful. I'd allow all three in my games.

[PeteNutButter]

The Githzerai are better monks than any other race except maybe human variant. A free AC point puts them on par with other optimal monk races with 16 AC to start, but with their first ASI boosting dex and wisdom they'll have an 18 AC. Which is actually respectable AC at 4th level.

Throw a once a day shield spell on that and you're in good shape for a monk.

As a side note, I really wish they would stop making so many races giving two different mental/casting stats. They are either wasted or force odd multiclassing. I suspect the boosts will be wasted more often than not. It feels like an attempt to balance powerful racial features by having the bonuses be sub-optimal. Yuan-Ti Purebloods suffer the same drawback but also come with powerful features.

Unless your githzerai is a wizard-AT-EK/monk-cleric-druid you are wasting stats in this edition.

[Aett_Thorn]

The Githzerai are better monks than any other race except maybe human variant. A free AC point puts them on par with other optimal monk races with 16 AC to start, but with their first ASI boosting dex and wisdom they'll have an 18 AC. Which is actually respectable AC at 4th level.

Throw a once a day shield spell on that and you're in good shape for a monk.

As a side note, I really wish they would stop making so many races giving two different mental/casting stats. They are either wasted or force odd multiclassing. I suspect the boosts will be wasted more often than not. It feels like an attempt to balance powerful racial features by having the bonuses be sub-optimal. Yuan-Ti Purebloods suffer the same drawback but also come with powerful features.

Unless your githzerai is a wizard-AT-EK/monk-cleric-druid you are wasting stats in this edition.

Well, unless you want to play a wise, but also intelligent, character. If you're mainly focused on being a caster Cleric, having some Int can also help you with some of your skills as well. I like the idea of a Githzerai Arcana Cleric. Since a lot of Cleric proficiencies are Int-based, this could help. Granted, it's not optimal, but I can see the uses.

[PeteNutButter]

Well, unless you want to play a wise, but also intelligent, character. If you're mainly focused on being a caster Cleric, having some Int can also help you with some of your skills as well. I like the idea of a Githzerai Arcana Cleric. Since a lot of Cleric proficiencies are Int-based, this could help. Granted, it's not optimal, but I can see the uses.

Yeah, it's just that with point buy you want your racial bonuses going into stats that are a base of 13 or higher, since the stats cost two points over 13. Do you really want a 14 int on a cleric? You are right... not optimal.

[Easy_Lee]

Eladrin look like some textbook Mary Sues with their quad-polar personalities and changing magical abilities to suit. Misty Step as a short rest racial from level 1, without even having to cast it as a spell or make noise, is way too powerful. That can break grapples and get you out of all kinds of bad situations.

As for Gith...what does this do that an existing race doesn't do? I'm having trouble coming up with character concepts that these guys would fit better than current options. Monk / Bladesinger, maybe, assuming your DM allows a non-elf bladesinger?

[Millstone85]

So, eladrin, a word that once referred to a CG celestial, then became synonymous with high elf, and is now its own elf subrace.

Also, I recently saw a video where Mike Mearls explains that "the Feywild is the realm of extreme emotions" (link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDRp2opdX70)). We can see the influence of that here.

Er... I liked how 4e high elves had a foot in two worlds. And while some people where annoyed that high elves were made even higher, I think it is worse to now have both high elves and higher elves. As for the emotion thing, eeeh.

I was glad to see the aasimar fleshed out in VGtM, but the eladrin could have been left in the DMG.

[Beechgnome]

Githzerai seem pretty great for a Cleric 1/Wizard X multiclass (16s in both at first level, and by my math 14 spells, plus 2 racial spells, at 5th level), Arcana Clerics and obviously Monks.

Githyanki are built for Mystics and Abjurer Wizards who want to tank.

Eladrin's cantrip versatility and Misty Step really help Warlocks, Dex paladins but also good for arcane trickters. I can see a Feylocks/ancients paladin combo working with this.

[jaappleton]

Githyanki would make excellent Strength based Rogues. Medium Armor proficiency, +2 Strength? Int lend themselves to be Arcane Trickster's, an additional skill or tool and some mobility spells? Pretty nice combination.

[Temperjoke]

Well, the Eladrin cantrip change isn't that big of a deal, since it's got to be done at the end of a rest, plus it's not like cantrips listed are powerful ones anyways. For me personally, I don't know that I'd want to tie the seasonal personality thing to emotions, but even that really isn't a huge deal, since it's states that the personality shifts are caused by feeling powerful emotions. It's not like an Eldarin is going to shift to his Winter state just because he happened to drop his toast that morning (although it would be entertaining to play a character like that).

[Beechgnome]

Githyanki would make excellent Strength based Rogues. Medium Armor proficiency, +2 Strength? Int lend themselves to be Arcane Trickster's, an additional skill or tool and some mobility spells? Pretty nice combination.

Also grappling assassins. Jump in, strangle guy and stab 'im, then Misty Step/jump outta there. Int not necessary, but can be useful for rogue investigation checks.

[Millstone85]

Well, this new video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr8tC1Zl_1g) has something interesting regarding eladrin lore.
But now as we flesh out the Feywild, we think of the eladrin as coming from the Feywild. Er, these eladrin. Like, there is an entire pantheon of different types of eladrin. But the eladrin we see as just eladrin without any modifier, as just the humanoid, the type of elf, we think of them as the elves who live in the Feywild. So... Are they thinking about having both Feywild eladrin and Arborea eladrin? Would those be different from the celestial elves briefly mentioned in the DMG?

Just what is WotC cooking here?

Edit, from another thread:
Eladrin being 'fey elves' drives me crazy... what are they going to do with chaotic good outsider lore once we get a 'planar manual'?
Okay, first of all, seriously, it's bad manners to go into threads that aren't talking about Eladrin at all just to complain about the Eladrin - do it in the Sept UA thread or make your own. Secondly, it's obvious that they'll make the Bralani, Firre, etc into high-level noble faeries (in contrast to "vanilla" Eladrin, which are 0-level nobodies), because that's what they did in the last edition - Eladrin simply don't WORK as "Angels but Chaotic Good" anymore, and good riddance to that idea.Maybe it was an accidental thread mix-up? And yeah, that could be the idea. Maybe archfey of enough power and virtue can ascend to Arborea as celestials. A more "organic" origin than the direct creation of angels by their divine masters, fitting of chaotic good exemplars.

[Unoriginal]

Well, this new video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr8tC1Zl_1g) has something interesting regarding eladrin lore. So... Are they thinking about having both Feywild eladrin and Arborea eladrin? Would those be different from the celestial elves briefly mentioned in the DMG?

Just what is WotC cooking here?

Given the wording, it seems to me that he is talking that the Eladrin live in the Feywild, but that there are more kinds than the Elf Eladrin, who are simply the humanoid version.

So there is the Elf Eladrin, the X creature Eladrin, the Y creature Eladrin, etc, or "an entire pantheon of different types of Eladrin"

[Foxhound438]

I'm guessing it'll be Crafting: Why we made it bad. instead of offering new rules it'll just be defending the lack of interesting support for it

absolute savagery


Feats for Backgrounds!

Feats for Stats!

Feats for Hair Color!

Feats for Feats!

All the feats!

>feats for feats

what do you think this is, pathfinder?
--------------------------------

So I feel like Eldarin are a bit on the OP side with a 1 per short rest 2nd level spell on top of a cantrip that you can trade out as necessary as racial abilities. You can argue about exactly how strong misty step is in comparison to other 2nd level spells, but my assessment is that it's far and away the best of them, and having it at first level may be a bit dangerous to early game balance. It of course stops being OP by the time you reach level 10 or so, like anything else you can expect to get from a race, but the early levels are where you play the most.

Gith seem cool to me, and probably would be interesting to build around, especially the one that gets medium armor. You can be a heavy armor wizard at level 4 with no need for multiclass! you could do it before with mountain dwarf, but they lose out on int to do it. The githzerai (god knows if I spelt that right) are cool with free bonus AC, and probably could be great as an arcane archer or monk (especially with the spells), but I'm just a touch less excited about those.

[Maxilian]

--------------------------------

So I feel like Eldarin are a bit on the OP side with a 1 per short rest 2nd level spell on top of a cantrip that you can trade out as necessary as racial abilities. You can argue about exactly how strong misty step is in comparison to other 2nd level spells, but my assessment is that it's far and away the best of them, and having it at first level may be a bit dangerous to early game balance. It of course stops being OP by the time you reach level 10 or so, like anything else you can expect to get from a race, but the early levels are where you play the most.

I wouldn't call it OP, but either way, don't the Githyanki also get the same spell? (IMHO what would the Eladrin be without Misty Steep?), IMHO i don't think is that powerful, its worse than the Goblin option to Dash or Disengage with your bonus action (Misty Steep is a free Dash that do not provoke OA, that's all....)



Gith seem cool to me, and probably would be interesting to build around, especially the one that gets medium armor. You can be a heavy armor wizard at level 4 with no need for multiclass! you could do it before with mountain dwarf, but they lose out on int to do it. The githzerai (god knows if I spelt that right) are cool with free bonus AC, and probably could be great as an arcane archer or monk (especially with the spells), but I'm just a touch less excited about those.

IMHO the Gith could be great as any Martial 3-quarter caster (EK, Trogue, etc...), the Githzerai... well... maybe with a more niche character (Like someone who uses Shillelagh or something like that) -EK with Shillelagh that uses INT and WIS? or just a Bladesinger and things like those.

[Shadow_in_the_Mist]

Well, this new video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr8tC1Zl_1g) has something interesting regarding eladrin lore. So... Are they thinking about having both Feywild eladrin and Arborea eladrin? Would those be different from the celestial elves briefly mentioned in the DMG?

Just what is WotC cooking here?

Edit, from another thread:Maybe it was an accidental thread mix-up? And yeah, that could be the idea. Maybe archfey of enough power and virtue can ascend to Arborea as celestials. A more "organic" origin than the direct creation of angels by their divine masters, fitting of chaotic good exemplars.

Except she did it in my Gith homebrewing thread first, so it doesn't look like a mix-up.

Anyway, the problem really is that prior to 4th edition, the distinction between "powerful faerie" and "eladrin" really didn't make a lot of sense. In essentia, Arborea used to be D&D's equivalent to the Land of Faerie, before WoTC tried to shake things up and give us a better version with the Feywild.

The confusion we're seeing now is the direct result of WoTC trying to have their cake and eat it too by bringing back the Great Wheel and all its pointless little grid-fillers whilst at the same time retaining the Feywild from the World Axis. The lore is just all garbled and confused and it makes me long for the World Axis again.

I'm personally figuring that WoTC's going to go with the angle of "living feywild elves and their more faerie relatives are Feywild Eladrin; Celestial Eladrin represent a combination of feywild elf petitioners and Seelie Court faeries". The Feywild established that there are multiple fey factions in the Feywild, including the Summer Court, Winter Court, and Stars Courts. Seelie Fey as a pseudo-angelic strain of faerie that migrated to Arborea can kind of intermingle with that lore.

[Millstone85]

Anyway, the problem really is that prior to 4th edition, the distinction between "powerful faerie" and "eladrin" really didn't make a lot of sense. In essentia, Arborea used to be D&D's equivalent to the Land of Faerie, before WoTC tried to shake things up and give us a better version with the Feywild.This might be best illustrated by SCAG's description of the isle of Evermeet having originally been a piece of Arvandor, itself part of Arborea, that was sundered to Toril, then spellplagued to the Feywild, then second-sundered back to Toril.

Or not, since it adds the complexity of FR on top of that of the editions.

That place must have some strange elves, though.


I'm personally figuring that WoTC's going to go with the angle of "living feywild elves and their more faerie relatives are Feywild Eladrin; Celestial Eladrin represent a combination of feywild elf petitioners and Seelie Court faeries". The Feywild established that there are multiple fey factions in the Feywild, including the Summer Court, Winter Court, and Stars Courts. Seelie Fey as a pseudo-angelic strain of faerie that migrated to Arborea can kind of intermingle with that lore.You know, I would actually like that.

[Kane0]

Meh. The UA gith is OK but I think GitP did it better (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?534027-Homebrewing-Gith-PC-Races-how-faithful-should-I-be).

[Naanomi]

Sorry about cross-treading; I didn't see that the 'when is the UA coming?' Thread had turned into the UA thread, so I was posting where I saw conversation on the UA material. Party foul, -10 points to ravenclaw

[DracoKnight]

Sorry about cross-treading; I didn't see that the 'when is the UA coming?' Thread had turned into the UA thread, so I was posting where I saw conversation on the UA material. Party foul, -10 points to ravenclaw

But you owned up to your mistake; +15 points to Ravenclaw!

[Eric Diaz]

The strangest thing to me is that:

- Eladrin don't get Misty step anymore (see DMG). Now they have Fey step. Which is basically Misty step, but without mentioning the spell...? Okay.
- Curiously enough, Gith get psionics powers.... described as Misty step spell!!!

I dunno, it is like multiple people are designing thew game at the same time!

[Belltent]

The strangest thing to me is that:


- Curiously enough, Gith get psionics powers.... described as Misty step spell!!!

I dunno, it is like multiple people are designing thew game at the same time!

There aren't any RAW psionic rules to give the Gith yet. Any potential (and there will be several) change to the UA psionic mechanic would change the cost/effect/whatever of the psionic mechanics it seems you are looking for. Give them a spell, call it psionic, and everyone knows what it means.

[Eric Diaz]

There aren't any RAW psionic rules to give the Gith yet. Any potential (and there will be several) change to the UA psionic mechanic would change the cost/effect/whatever of the psionic mechanics it seems you are looking for. Give them a spell, call it psionic, and everyone knows what it means.

Sure - but why change the Eladrin? It seems like they are saying the same thing in two different ways for two different races.

[Millstone85]

Sure - but why change the Eladrin? It seems like they are saying the same thing in two different ways for two different races.Maybe they decided that while the gith would get a component-less Misty Step, the eladrin would now get a component-less non-counterspellable Misty Step, and that was good for the overall balance?

[Eric Diaz]

Maybe they decided that while the gith would get a component-less Misty Step, the eladrin would now get a component-less non-counterspellable Misty Step, and that was good for the overall balance?

Yeah, makes sense. Must be something of the sort. But, then again, that means psionics are counterspellable for some reason... while the eladrin (a race that feels more "magical" IMO) doesn't get the same limitation.

But I think you're right, it must be some balance issue.

[JBPuffin]

The important distinction is that Githyanki get it at 5th level and as a "spell", so casting burning hands or whatever that turn, while Eladrin get a 1st-level version that allows them to cast a leveled spell and step in the same turn. The gith have more than a few other things going for them. I'm glad the eladrin have something going for them more than "we can teleport at level 1," but it's not the same as what the githyanki get. I mean, daaaaaamn, son. That needs some playtesting.

[DracoKnight]

Okay, so put me in the camp that likes the new Eladrin. I'd have done their seasonal cantrips a bit differently, but I like the overall concept and flavor that they were going for.

As for the gith...

I have no problems with the base race, that's all fine. Maybe allow an increase of DEX or INT to keep the Zerai from feeling like they're wasting an INT bump.

The Yanki is mainly where I take issue. I don't approve of a race that gives both Medium armor and increases a casting stat. It's probably not broken, but the only other race that does this is the Mountain Dwar, which boosts warrior stats. So if it were me, I'd drop the Medium armor, and instead give the player's choice of longsword or greatsword proficiency. Moving to their racial spells, I'd remove misty step and give them magic weapon instead. Their whole racial story involves hunting down mindflayers with magical silvered greatswords.

As for the Zerai, the only change I'd make is to give them misty step instead of detect thoughts. This way Yanki are focused on warrior traits, and Zerai are focused on mobility. I'd also probably swap jump and shield.

But that's just me.

[thoroughlyS]

I feel that eladrin are given an altogether unnecessary power boost. Compared to a high elf, they can't choose their cantrip, but get to swap between four options every short rest. They lose 4 martial weapons and a language to get a 2nd-level spell once per short rest, which I have been informed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?534741-Why-is-misty-step-a-2nd-level-spell) is versatile, powerful, and has remarkable longevity. In addition, their misty step is no longer a spell, and therefore does not count towards the limit on spells cast in one turn. In fairness, that also means it cannot be altered by class abilities that affect spells, which is a comparatively small price to pay (considering the number of character than don't modify spells at all).

Circling back to the cantrip(s), the 4 options are regarded (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?471816-Magic-Initiate-A-guide-to-an-underestimated-(and-cool)-feat) as decent to strong additions to non-magical builds. For casters, this becomes either a non-class freebie or a floating bonus cantrip.

[Millstone85]

Yeah, makes sense. Must be something of the sort. But, then again, that means psionics are counterspellable for some reason... while the eladrin (a race that feels more "magical" IMO) doesn't get the same limitation.

But I think you're right, it must be some balance issue.In the span of three Mystic UAs, we have gone from "Psionics and magic are two distinct forces" to "Psionics is a special form of magic use, distinct from spellcasting". What hasn't changed is that psionics is sometimes used for spellcasting, in which case Counterspell works. And I think it is unlikely to change, since the MM gith and other monsters already use "Innate Spellcasting (Psionics)".

But the eladrin also feels more spellcasty, so... Well, it wouldn't be the first non-spell magic feature for a spellcaster. But I agree the contrast here is a bit annoying.

[JumboWheat01]

I somewhat like the Eladrin, they seem to have an interesting quirk, and they let me have Elvish goodies and a Charisma bonus without having to deal with sunlight sensitivity (or being the scum of the world, as many Drow are.) No weapon skills, though, but free cantrips do kinda help. Just align yourself to Winter or Summer all the time and you've got a ranged attack no matter the class. Rather handy for, say, a Paladin who's probably pumping up that Charisma anyway, and wouldn't get any benefit out of those bonus weapons.

[DracoKnight]

One thing I just realized about the Eladrin, that I would change: Winter should get ray of frost instead of chill touch.

[Jerrykhor]

One thing I just realized about the Eladrin, that I would change: Winter should get ray of frost instead of chill touch.

This. Somehow i keep forgetting that Chill Touch doesn't deal cold damage too. Maybe Chill Touch just isn't as cold as it sounds.

[DracoKnight]

This. Somehow i keep forgetting that Chill Touch doesn't deal cold damage too. Maybe Chill Touch just isn't as cold as it sounds.

Yeah, necrotic damage :smallannoyed: which I guess makes sense with winter = dead things.

[Temperjoke]

Yeah, necrotic damage :smallannoyed: which I guess makes sense with winter = dead things.

It makes more sense when you look at the Winter Emotional state, which is depression, gloom and sadness for Eldarin.

[DracoKnight]

It makes more sense when you look at the Winter Emotional state, which is depression, gloom and sadness for Eldarin.

It does make sense with that, but it specifically says that the seasonal magic you're attuned to does not have to reflect your emotional state.

[Unoriginal]

It does make sense with that, but it specifically says that the seasonal magic you're attuned to does not have to reflect your emotional state.

Fighting Eladrins must be weird, though.

"Fear my Fiery Ray of Happiness!"

[DracoKnight]

Fighting Eladrins must be weird, though.

"Fear my Fiery Ray of Happiness!"

Fighting any fey should be weird :smallbiggrin:

[Zalabim]

Fighting Eladrins must be weird, though.

"Fear my Fiery Ray of Happiness!"

It probably isn't worse than a "serious laser" or "sensitive inferno." Or that other one.

[Millstone85]

Jeremy Crawford gave a strange answer when someone asked about the eladrin lore issue.

link (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/907403827174715392)

With eladrin being locked down as fey, what should we call CG outsiders from Arborea now?Creature types aren't bound to particular planes of existence. Fey, for instance, exist on many planes, not just the Feywild.That answer isn't really one, is it?

But it gives some weight to what was previously suggested. WotC might embrace the redundancy between the Feywild and Arborea, allowing eladrin, particularly those of archfey status, to double as something like the CG exemplars of old.

It would be easier if 5e creatures were allowed to have more than one type. Someone had to decide that unicorns are more celestial than fey.

[GorogIrongut]

I'm kind've getting grumpy. I really want to see this UA... but everytime I click on the stupid pdf link. The pdf that comes up is filled with gibberish. Yesterday and today.

*sad face*

[nickl_2000]

I'm kind've getting grumpy. I really want to see this UA... but everytime I click on the stupid pdf link. The pdf that comes up is filled with gibberish. Yesterday and today.

*sad face*

Does this one work for you? It's the same thing, just saved to my google cloud drive.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4Rf5npwkmpLZndVVW85LUJIRTg

[GorogIrongut]

Does this one work for you? It's the same thing, just saved to my google cloud drive.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4Rf5npwkmpLZndVVW85LUJIRTg

Unfortunately that's not doing anything. Thanks for trying though.

[Willie the Duck]

As a side note, I really wish they would stop making so many races giving two different mental/casting stats. They are either wasted or force odd multiclassing. I suspect the boosts will be wasted more often than not. It feels like an attempt to balance powerful racial features by having the bonuses be sub-optimal. Yuan-Ti Purebloods suffer the same drawback but also come with powerful features.


I have no problems with the base race, that's all fine. Maybe allow an increase of DEX or INT to keep the Zerai from feeling like they're wasting an INT bump.

But that's the point. You get above-normal benefits, but it is hard to come up with a build that utilizes it all. Just like mountain dwarves getting +2 Str/+2 Con, but in builds where that is most rewarded, the weapon and armor proficiencies are wasted. That's pretty much the conceptual point.

[Azgeroth]

Does this one work for you? It's the same thing, just saved to my google cloud drive.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4Rf5npwkmpLZndVVW85LUJIRTg

your a legend! it works! i can read it!

i was also having the strange error.. though my post seems to have disappeared...

[Regitnui]

Jeremy Crawford gave a strange answer when someone asked about the eladrin lore issue.

link (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/907403827174715392)That answer isn't really one, is it?

But it gives some weight to what was previously suggested. WotC might embrace the redundancy between the Feywild and Arborea, allowing eladrin, particularly those of archfey status, to double as something like the CG exemplars of old.

It would be easier if 5e creatures were allowed to have more than one type. Someone had to decide that unicorns are more celestial than fey.

Well, it's not that far off. After all, you find beasts all over the Great Wheel. Templates in 3.5 just gave them resistances and a fancy haircut. Why wouldn't you find succubi in the feywild/arborea, or eladrin in whatever plane passes for NG heaven?

[Naanomi]

Well, it's not that far off. After all, you find beasts all over the Great Wheel. Templates in 3.5 just gave them resistances and a fancy haircut. Why wouldn't you find succubi in the feywild/arborea, or eladrin in whatever plane passes for NG heaven?
You might find them there, but that doesn't make them the *exemplar* of that place... there are all kinds of creatures in the Abyss, but only Demons *are* the abyss in some ways. Eladrin may pass through the NG heaven (The Fields of Elysium), but it is Guardinals that are the inherent creatures of that place.

Stripping Eladrin out of Arborea leaves a hole to fill... just because there may be fey there (which is fine), they are not the creatures born of and representing that plane. If they are something else now, they have to be replaced to maintain the 'symmetry' of the Great Wheel; as well as to fill a gap in traditional planar history (The War of Law and Chaos, and how it ends, doesn't make much sense without the Eladrin/Demonic alliance under the Queen of Chaos)

[Regitnui]

Stripping Eladrin out of Arborea leaves a hole to fill... just because there may be fey there (which is fine), they are not the creatures born of and representing that plane.

How does eladrin being fey somehow make it impossible that they're the exemplars of CG? They can still be of Arborea and fulfil all the roles they once did.

[Naanomi]

How does eladrin being fey somehow make it impossible that they're the exemplars of CG? They can still be of Arborea and fulfil all the roles they once did.
Each of the cardinal Outer Planes naturally gives birth to a race (sometimes called Exemplars)... historically these are Archons, Guardinals, Eladrin, Slaad, Demons (currently Tanar'ri, historically Obyrith), Yugoloth (or, perhaps just Baernoloth), Ancient Baatoreans (not Baatezu), Modrons, and Rilmani (previously the Kamerel). They can have whatever 'type', but they do need to follow that template... born from the plane, representing the fundamental nature of that alignment in the cosmological sense. Do note that 'angels' are not part of this system, they are their own thing (like many other 'outsiders').

Eladrin, as presented both in the DMG and this UA... fail this definition...
-they are from the feywild, not Arborea
-they are an elven subrace, not a spiritual being (classic eladrin, like all exemplars, likely predated the existence of elves)
-they can be 'terrifying villains', not beings made out of (Chaotic) Goodness... a villainous Eladrin would be akin to a fallen angel (may exist, but exceedingly rare... not part of the race's description)

I don't mind there being 'fey elves'... I could even live with them 'stealing' the name (though I wouldn't like it)... nor do I mind fey in Arborea or 'classic eladrin' in the feywild... but I still want to know what is then taking their place cosmologically and in planar history

[Millstone85]

Each of the cardinal Outer Planes naturally gives birth to a race (sometimes called Exemplars)... historically these are Archons, Guardinals, Eladrin, Slaad, Demons (currently Tanar'ri, historically Obyrith), Yugoloth (or, perhaps just Baernoloth), Ancient Baatoreans (not Baatezu), Modrons, and Rilmani (previously the Kamerel). They can have whatever 'type', but they do need to follow that template... born from the plane, representing the fundamental nature of that alignment in the cosmological sense. Do note that 'angels' are not part of this system, they are their own thing (like many other 'outsiders').Angels got this update where all of them are created lawful good, yet by and for deities of any good alignment. While that seems conflicted, my interpretation would be something like:
* Ideal: I was made from the essence of cosmic Good, which I champion in all its forms.
* Bond: I trust my divine creator with the direction of my efforts for the cause of Good.
* Flaw: My lawful nature often gets me compared to a rigid-thinking "celestial construct".

But I guess angels still have roughly the same place in the cosmology.

As for true exemplars of individual Upper Planes, I would note that we don't have 5e's take on any of them. Perhaps we will learn what the deal is with eladrin when we get news of archons and guardinals.


Eladrin, as presented both in the DMG and this UA... fail this definition...
-they are from the feywild, not Arborea
-they are an elven subrace, not a spiritual being (classic eladrin, like all exemplars, likely predated the existence of elves)
-they can be 'terrifying villains', not beings made out of (Chaotic) Goodness... a villainous Eladrin would be akin to a fallen angel (may exist, but exceedingly rare... not part of the race's description)What I am expecting in the end is yet another elven genealogy, such as...

In the beginning were archeladrin in Arborea. They descended upon the Feywild and there created a mortal race in their image, which they wanted free-willed and passionate. These eladrin later came to the Material and eventually became known as high elves, though modern high elves are not quite like their Feywild cousins. Then came the time of the wood elves, who truly embraced the more mundane wilds of the Material, and of the dark elves, traitors to the rest of elven kind.

[Naanomi]

What I am expecting in the end is yet another elven genealogy, such as...

In the beginning were archeladrin in Arborea. They descended upon the Feywild and there created a mortal race in their image, which they wanted free-willed and passionate. These eladrin later came to the Material and eventually became known as high elves, though modern high elves are not quite like their Feywild cousins. Then came the time of the wood elves, who truly embraced the more mundane wilds of the Material, and of the dark elves, traitors to the rest of elven kind.
That gets into conflict with the elven pantheon of Gods (exemplars are not Powers and vice versa)... not very satisfyingly for me either. A good origin story in a homebrew campaign though

[Regitnui]

In the beginning were archeladrin in Arborea. They descended upon the Feywild and there created a mortal race in their image, which they wanted free-willed and passionate. These eladrin later came to the Material and eventually became known as high elves, though modern high elves are not quite like their Feywild cousins. Then came the time of the wood elves, who truly embraced the more mundane wilds of the Material, and of the dark elves, traitors to the rest of elven kind.
Swap the willingly coming to the Material for being ripped from it by titans (ancestral giants) and you have a fairly good summary of how elves in Eberron happened. Eladrin (fey) summoned and bound to be servants, gradually enslaved further and altered into modern, mortal elves.

[Mikal]

But that's the point. You get above-normal benefits, but it is hard to come up with a build that utilizes it all. Just like mountain dwarves getting +2 Str/+2 Con, but in builds where that is most rewarded, the weapon and armor proficiencies are wasted. That's pretty much the conceptual point.

Except that makes people less likely to play them for the more mechanically apt choices.
There's a reason V-Human is so popular. People don't generally like to waste limited resources/options when they don't have to.

[Willie the Duck]

Except that makes people less likely to play them for the more mechanically apt choices.
There's a reason V-Human is so popular. People don't generally like to waste limited resources/options when they don't have to.

I understand the concept, but to me that just means that they didn't fulfill the concept well enough (and the fact that V-Humans are just plain a cut above everyone else). The basic premise of 'lots of goodies on the table, but you can't capitalize on all of them' shouldn't be bad. I think the mountain dwarf wizard (particularly abjurer) would be considered strong... in a game system where there was a little more reward for a wizard who can hack it in melee (so one without shocking grasp and at-will combat cantrips). A yuan-ti rogue (the guys who are great except that they always fail Con and Wis saves) or paladin would be a great concept, if there weren't Vuman rogues with lucky and paladins already being the best at saving vs. spells. A lizardfolk druid or barbarian would be a great concept if there weren't already moon druids and a barbarian method of having a good unarmored AC.

[Regitnui]

The great thing about 5e is that even if you have one player who optimises and another who plays for fun, they're both roughly on the same level.

[Mikal]

I agree that 'lots of goodies on the table, but you can't capitalize on all of them' isn't inherently bad. I'm just saying in the 5e environment where you can have lots of goodies on the table and you can use them all, that the former is bad design, because it doesn't compete at this point, except for niche/non-optimal building.

Especially when you have the people who go "can I just theme the v. human as *mechanically suckier race*" because it clashes with their 'creative freedom'.

[Temperjoke]

I wonder how Eladrin look, compared to regular elves? Do you think it'd be something that a person could tell by looking at them? I mean, they're probably not as drastically different as the drow are, but are their ears like pointier or longer? :P

[Regitnui]

I wonder how Eladrin look, compared to regular elves? Do you think it'd be something that a person could tell by looking at them? I mean, they're probably not as drastically different as the drow are, but are their ears like pointier or longer? :P

I'd say they look like everything that makes elves different from humans upnto eleven. Hair that's so fine as so blow like willow branches, ears that come to an impossible point, thin frame and almost gaunt faces, white eyes that seem to hold all the world in them and an eerie stillness. Of course, I think of eladrin as ancestral elves...

[Millstone85]

I'd say they look like everything that makes elves different from humans upnto eleven.That or eladrin are to high elves what high elves are to wood elves.

So if most humans would mistake a high elf ranger for a wood elf, they might not recognize eladrin traits either.

[Naanomi]

I'd say they look like everything that makes elves different from humans upnto eleven. Hair that's so fine as so blow like willow branches, ears that come to an impossible point, thin frame and almost gaunt faces, white eyes that seem to hold all the world in them and an eerie stillness. Of course, I think of eladrin as ancestral elves...
So like Leshay?

[JumboWheat01]

Well in 4e, Eladrin had eyes that were just one solid color, like blue or green. But outside of that, they were still pretty much elf-like for the most part.

[Regitnui]

So like Leshay?

Almost but no. More like the sidhe, the old-school fair folk, that have an equal chance of kissing you or removing your toenails as a greeting. The kind that kill mortals just to watch the light fade from their eyes and then start playing hopscotch. Basically human-shaped; two legs, two arms, two eyes, two ears; but completely inhuman in every other respect. If you can imagine it smiling with genuine warmth, it's not an eladrin.

Basically, take modern tales of the Greys and apply them to something that would make an elf look like the plainest, pudgy, buck-toothed dweeb, and that's what I'm picturing.

[Shadow_in_the_Mist]

I wonder how Eladrin look, compared to regular elves? Do you think it'd be something that a person could tell by looking at them? I mean, they're probably not as drastically different as the drow are, but are their ears like pointier or longer? :P

Well, in 4e, this was their official writeup in the PHB:

Eladrin are of human height. They are slim, and even the strongest simply look athletic rather than muscle-bound. They have the same range of complexions as humans, though they are more often fair than dark. Their straight, fine hair is often white, silver or pale gold, and they wear it long and loose. Their ears are long and pointed, and their eyes are pearly and opalescent orbs of violet, blue or green, lacking pupils. Eladrin can't grow facial hair and have little body hair.

[Naanomi]

Almost but no. More like the sidhe, the old-school fair folk, that have an equal chance of kissing you or removing your toenails as a greeting. The kind that kill mortals just to watch the light fade from their eyes and then start playing hopscotch. Basically human-shaped; two legs, two arms, two eyes, two ears; but completely inhuman in every other respect. If you can imagine it smiling with genuine warmth, it's not an eladrin.

Basically, take modern tales of the Greys and apply them to something that would make an elf look like the plainest, pudgy, buck-toothed dweeb, and that's what I'm picturing.
My problem with this conception is you are describing fey... and eladrin are supposed to be a mix of fey and mortals... I feel your description is too 'pure fey' for me

[Regitnui]

My problem with this conception is you are describing fey... and eladrin are supposed to be a mix of fey and mortals... I feel your description is too 'pure fey' for me

That's perfectly fine. I wouldn't use eladrin as a playable race, instead the "baseline" fey the players could encounter.

[Naanomi]

That's perfectly fine. I wouldn't use eladrin as a playable race, instead the "baseline" fey the players could encounter.
Now we have three eladrin... a baseline fey, a chaotic-good planar exemplar/celestial, and a player-character fey-touched elven subrace.

As an aside, if the Eladrin name does get '4th ed' co-opted into a type of fey (pc subrace or otherwise), the name 'Asura' has been used for a couple of unrelated different types of Chaotic-Good outsiders... so it is a possibility

[Regitnui]

Now we have three eladrin... a baseline fey, a chaotic-good planar exemplar/celestial, and a player-character fey-touched elven subrace.

Why can't the first two merge? Eladrin are perfectly capable of being Chaotic Good in the same incomprehensible way an angel can be Lawful Good. Why can't the Chaotic Good exemplar be fey? Mischievous without being mindlessly destructive, a child-like fascination with mortals and mortality, and emotions that swing wildly and are only vaguely connected to any outside source.

And if you want to play a fey-touched elven subrace, there are three of them. High, wood and dark. All elves are essentially fey-touched, hence the Fey Ancestry trait you find in their stats. Needing eladrin as a "higher" elf is a holdover from 4e, which I found baffling even then. I mean, what wasn't elvish enough about elves? If they're being played as pointy-eared humans, that's not WotC's fault, and it doesn't need "elfy elves" to fix.

[DracoKnight]

Why can't the first two merge? Eladrin are perfectly capable of being Chaotic Good in the same incomprehensible way an angel can be Lawful Good. Why can't the Chaotic Good exemplar be fey? Mischievous without being mindlessly destructive, a child-like fascination with mortals and mortality, and emotions that swing wildly and are only vaguely connected to any outside source.

And if you want to play a fey-touched elven subrace, there are three of them. High, wood and dark. All elves are essentially fey-touched, hence the Fey Ancestry trait you find in their stats. Needing eladrin as a "higher" elf is a holdover from 4e, which I found baffling even then. I mean, what wasn't elvish enough about elves? If they're being played as pointy-eared humans, that's not WotC's fault, and it doesn't need "elfy elves" to fix.

Personally in my home games I solve it thus: Eladrin aren't actually elves. They are fey, and affected by anything that targets humanoids or fey. They use the base elf race because if I were to write up a fey race it would look pretty much the same.

TLDR; In my games they use elf stats but are actual fey instead of feywild elves.

[Regitnui]

Personally in my home games I solve it thus: Eladrin aren't actually elves. They are fey, and affected by anything that targets humanoids or fey. They use the base elf race because if I were to write up a fey race it would look pretty much the same.

TLDR; In my games they use elf stats but are actual fey instead of feywild elves.

Fits my purposes, so consider this stolen.

[Millstone85]

Needing eladrin as a "higher" elf is a holdover from 4e, which I found baffling even then.In defense of 4e, what it really did was adopt the names "eladrin, elves and drow" in place of "high, wood and dark elves". The PHB acknowledged eladrin as being sometimes called high elves. The FRPG said eladrin were themselves divided into sun elves and moon elves, just like the SCAG now does with high elves.

4e did make high elves even higher by giving them all this Feywild lore, but it is only with 5e that we now have both high elves and "higher elves".

[Naanomi]

Why can't the first two merge? Eladrin are perfectly capable of being Chaotic Good in the same incomprehensible way an angel can be Lawful Good. Why can't the Chaotic Good exemplar be fey? Mischievous without being mindlessly destructive, a child-like fascination with mortals and mortality, and emotions that swing wildly and are only vaguely connected to any outside source.

And if you want to play a fey-touched elven subrace, there are three of them. High, wood and dark. All elves are essentially fey-touched, hence the Fey Ancestry trait you find in their stats. Needing eladrin as a "higher" elf is a holdover from 4e, which I found baffling even then. I mean, what wasn't elvish enough about elves? If they're being played as pointy-eared humans, that's not WotC's fault, and it doesn't need "elfy elves" to fix.
I don't disagree (though it is conceptually important they originate from arboria not the feywild, the fey subtype would be fine though)... but in at least three places (counting this UA) wizards has adopted the Eladrin = fey-touched elven subrace... so...

[Regitnui]

I don't disagree (though it is conceptually important they originate from arboria not the feywild, the fey subtype would be fine though)... but in at least three places (counting this UA) wizards has adopted the Eladrin = fey-touched elven subrace... so...

And I regard any flavour given by WotC as written in sand, not stone. Wizards is aiming to make a player race. If we disregard that, eladrin are perfectly serviceable CG exemplars.

[Naanomi]

And I regard any flavour given by WotC as written in sand, not stone. Wizards is aiming to make a player race. If we disregard that, eladrin are perfectly serviceable CG exemplars.
Mechanically? Sure I guess... the fluff is the part I have conflict over

[DracoKnight]

Fits my purposes, so consider this stolen.

Consider it given :smallbiggrin:

[Temperjoke]

I can't remember if anyone has shared it yet, but Mike Mearls does mention the whole various things are Eladrin subject in this D&D Beyond video.


https://youtu.be/Yr8tC1Zl_1g

[GandalfTheWhite]

Oh...wow...I never thought I'd see them make a Gith race...but damn. Well done.

Is anyone else seeing a Githyanki Hexblade serving as the Githyanki Knight? You create a magical silvered greatsword with Cursebringer that eventually scales to +3. Now only to change the Curse Bringer smite damage to Psychic and you have yourself pretty much most of the Githyanki Knight monster statblock.

[DracoKnight]

Oh...wow...I never thought I'd see them make a Gith race...but damn. Well done.

Is anyone else seeing a Githyanki Hexblade serving as the Githyanki Knight? You create a magical silvered greatsword with Cursebringer that eventually scales to +3. Now only to change the Curse Bringer smite damage to Psychic and you have yourself pretty much most of the Githyanki Knight monster statblock.

Honestly I had the same thought.

[jaappleton]

Just noticed that the new Eladrin fits very well as a Bard.

Bards are amazingly versatile, as we all know. But this fixes one glaring hole: Lack of a decent attack Cantrip, since all they get is Vicious Mockery.

Now it can be Chill Touch, or Firebolt.

Additionally, now couple that with a short rest reopening Fey Step with the short rest replenishing (after lv5, anyway) Inspiration Dice.

Go College of Valor or College of Swords and you can simulate the old Stormwarden Paragon Path from 4E pretty well, too.

[DracoKnight]

Just noticed that the new Eladrin fits very well as a Bard.

Bards are amazingly versatile, as we all know. But this fixes one glaring hole: Lack of a decent attack Cantrip, since all they get is Vicious Mockery.

Now it can be Chill Touch, or Firebolt.

Additionally, now couple that with a short rest reopening Fey Step with the short rest replenishing (after lv5, anyway) Inspiration Dice.

Go College of Valor or College of Swords and you can simulate the old Stormwarden Paragon Path from 4E pretty well, too.

Actually...I hadn't thought of an Eladrin Bard...I was too caught up in what excellent Dexadins, Hexblades, and Sorcerers they make :smallbiggrin:

[jaappleton]

Actually...I hadn't thought of an Eladrin Bard...I was too caught up in what excellent Dexadins, Hexblades, and Sorcerers they make :smallbiggrin:

Undoubtedly they excel at all those classes.

I just like to find synergy with racial features and class mechanics, like how Warlock Slots and Fey Step replenish on short rests. While the stats certainly align well for a Sorcerer, I don't see much synergy beyond that. I'd prefer an Aasimar Sorc.

On a different note... Eladrin Monk or Rogue works well. Teleportation mobility never hurt a character, and having a fallback Cantrips is solid.

[Temperjoke]

Stat synergy aside, an Eladrin Bard is very thematic, music is generally filled with emotion after all. Imagine a bard playing music on a harp that's filled with unearthly echoes of sorrow, reflecting the feelings of the musician; in the midst of combat, the bard's fiery anthem of war inspires his companion to greater efforts in fighting.

[jaappleton]

Stat synergy aside, an Eladrin Bard is very thematic, music is generally filled with emotion after all. Imagine a bard playing music on a harp that's filled with unearthly echoes of sorrow, reflecting the feelings of the musician; in the midst of combat, the bard's fiery anthem of war inspires his companion to greater efforts in fighting.

I've never played a musical Bard, instead opting for a 'Lore Hunter' route.

But because of this, I'm thinking of an Eladrin stringing a harp by a campfire as his compatriots rest, playing a serene melody before enemies leap from the shadows, causing the Eladrin to radically change the tune to a fiery bolero as the sound leaps from the harp towards his enemies as the magic renders them asunder.

For the first time, a musical Bard seems pretty cool to me. Thank you for that. I mean it.

[Temperjoke]

I've never played a musical Bard, instead opting for a 'Lore Hunter' route.

But because of this, I'm thinking of an Eladrin stringing a harp by a campfire as his compatriots rest, playing a serene melody before enemies leap from the shadows, causing the Eladrin to radically change the tune to a fiery bolero as the sound leaps from the harp towards his enemies as the magic renders them asunder.

For the first time, a musical Bard seems pretty cool to me. Thank you for that. I mean it.

:smallbiggrin:

I blame Mercedes Lackey and her books for my mental picture of musical-based, empathic Bards.

[jaappleton]

Did I miss something, or do Gith not get Darkvision?

[Dudewithknives]

I've never played a musical Bard, instead opting for a 'Lore Hunter' route.

But because of this, I'm thinking of an Eladrin stringing a harp by a campfire as his compatriots rest, playing a serene melody before enemies leap from the shadows, causing the Eladrin to radically change the tune to a fiery bolero as the sound leaps from the harp towards his enemies as the magic renders them asunder.

For the first time, a musical Bard seems pretty cool to me. Thank you for that. I mean it.

To offshoot slightly, I want my bard subclass that actually is musical and artistic. I want my singing and instrument playing bard subclass.

As it stands the performance skills is almost completely useless, make a bard school that actually uses it.

[Aett_Thorn]

Did I miss something, or do Gith not get Darkvision?

You didn't miss a thing. They don't get it in this edition.

[Easy_Lee]

You didn't miss a thing. They don't get it in this edition.

All aboard the Dragonborn train, woo woo! Are yeh playing a dwarf or an elf, yet?

[Aett_Thorn]

All aboard the Dragonborn train, woo woo! Are yeh playing a dwarf or an elf, yet?

Screw that, I'm playing a Svirfneblin Gnone with Goggles of Night. 180' Darkvision, yo!

[Easy_Lee]

Screw that, I'm playing a Svirfneblin Gnone with Goggles of Night. 180' Darkvision, yo!

A gnome is also fine.