Entire party of wizards, would it work?

[Dankus Memakus]

Okay first let me tell you the wizards in the party
1. Mountain Dwarf abjurer. High Con medium armor and warhammer. Tank of the wizards. Spells that up tankyness
2. Air Gensai transmuter. Uses a crossbow, dagger, and buff spells, mainly used alchemy and herbalism kits to make potions and help allies
3.Protector Aasimar diviner (yes very suboptimal) imposes rolls, uses healing hands as a weak attempt to help allies. Has a mix of spells and plans to get the healer feat and be...well the healer
4. Forest gnome illusionist. Used his spells to sneak and deceive, sort of a pseudo rouge.
5 High elf bladesinger. Obviously the damaging melee fighter. Some damage spells, some buffs a good mix.

There's also possibly an addition of a necromancer.

Anyway the question is, will this party survive or die horribly due to their garbage hitpoints. I'm very certain that the DM is not gonna be merciful since he encouraged us against this but whatever. Do you think it can be done?

[Unoriginal]

They might succeed, but they are probably going to have a way tougher time than an other setup. But the main problem is not the lack of HPs, it's how limited by their spendable ressources they are.

Expect the wizards to try to end up the adventure day early, and fail because enemies shouldn't wait for you to rest 8 hours in general.

[Tanarii]

What are the conditions?
DMG guidelines adventuring day? (ie no long rests just because you run out of spell slots.)
going into dungeons? (or other environments where they can't just kite opponents to death.)

If so, I'd like to place my money on die horribly please. TPK either at level 1 or level 5.

[Dankus Memakus]

They might succeed, but they are probably going to have a way tougher time than an other setup. But the main problem is not the lack of HPs, it's how limited by their spendable ressources they are.

Expect the wizards to try to end up the adventure day early, and fail because enemies shouldn't wait for you to rest 8 hours in general.

True true. But with 5-6 wizards (two of which are kinda melee) do you think this will be a huge problem

[Toofey]

It'll be fine if they act like wizard, use their resources fully (ie: act like wizards), have plans to escape situations that are out of their control (Ie: act like wizards), and use their magic to create overwhelming advantages as opposed to focusing on trying to deal damage (Ie: act like wizards)

If they try to do this like other adventurers and just sally forth and fight things as they come and blunder through the adventure, they will probably not do well.

[Dankus Memakus]

What are the conditions?
DMG guidelines adventuring day? (ie no long rests just because you run out of spell slots.)
going into dungeons? (or other environments where they can't just kite opponents to death.)

If so, I'd like to place my money on die horribly please. TPK either at level 1 or level 5.

We use standard rules and dungeons, however if we survive till level 4 our lives may be prolonged with feats

[Unoriginal]

True true. But with 5-6 wizards (two of which are kinda melee) do you think this will be a huge problem

Yes.

Some people like to think the Wizard is very powerful because spells, but the truth is that spells are on-the-moment bursts of power, and once you run out you can't compete with the other classes.


It'll be fine if they act like wizard, use their resources fully (ie: act like wizards), have plans to escape situations that are out of their control (Ie: act like wizards), and use their magic to create overwhelming advantages as opposed to focusing on trying to deal damage (Ie: act like wizards)

And the dungeon's people will adapt their tactics to deal with this.

[Marcloure]

It will be hard at low levels or when the party run out of resources. I have played a full cleric party once, but many cleric's dominion grants armor and weapon proficiencies. And the HD is a bit higher than wizard's. An only druid party would probably work at low levels too, but will struggle a bit when wild shape gets behind in damage output.
Anyway, the DM will need to do his part for this to work. He would need to limit 2 or 3 (depending on level) encounters per long rest, and would need to be very careful at low levels with enemies that deals 10+ damage on hit.

[Dankus Memakus]

It will be hard at low levels or when the party run out of resources. I have played a full cleric party once, but many cleric's dominion grants armor and weapon proficiencies. And the HD is a bit higher than wizard's. An only druid party would probably work at low levels too, but will struggle a bit when wild shape gets behind in damage output.
Anyway, the DM will need to do his part for this to work. He would need to limit 2 or 3 (depending on level) encounters per long rest, and would need to be very careful at low levels with enemies that deals 10+ damage on hit.

This is true, but i think after low level play the party will probably function well. Especially when the polymorph spell is gained by transmuter which would give some actual melee options.

[Naanomi]

They'd probably be fine; they'd have to play careful and the first few levels would be precarious... but they always are. I wouldn't go with those exact race/subclass options myself either, but there is a lot of personal preference in there

[Tanarii]

We use standard rules and dungeons, however if we survive till level 4 our lives may be prolonged with feats
That's a big if IMO.

But have fun! And if you do go down, go down laughing maniacally instead of cursing fate. 😂

Also let us know how it goes the first few sessions. I'm curious now.

[Dankus Memakus]

That's a big if IMO.

But have fun! And if you do go down, go down laughing maniacally instead of cursing fate. 😂

Also let us know how it goes the first few sessions. I'm curious now.

I will tell the story of the wizards.

[Palrenzor]

I've actually done this before. As long as you guys don't get tied up pissing matches as to which type of magic and superior you'll be ok. However, the trouble starts with magic items. Most of the gear you'll get, if done randomly, won't help but a person or two. You'll either have to seek out specific caches of wizard specific stuff or have a way to buy and sell. That was the issue my group ran into.

[Dankus Memakus]

I've actually done this before. As long as you guys don't get tied up pissing matches as to which type of magic and superior you'll be ok. However, the trouble starts with magic items. Most of the gear you'll get, if done randomly, won't help but a person or two. You'll either have to seek out specific caches of wizard specific stuff or have a way to buy and sell. That was the issue my group ran into.

Well the good news is due to the racial variation there are some other items into play ie medium armor and blunt weapons for the dwarf, swords for the blade singer other such stuff so there's A Little bit of non wizard stuff thats useful, also we use the magic item crafting rules so we could craft and trade items

[Matticusrex]

Shield and abjuration school will make them as tanky as a normal front liner. a full wizard party will utterly destroy encounters unless they encounter anti-magic.

[SharkForce]

yeah, i would say the biggest struggle is going to be the early levels. it still won't be too easy for quite a while, but early on, it is going to be *really* rough.

[Citan]

Okay first let me tell you the wizards in the party
1. Mountain Dwarf abjurer. High Con medium armor and warhammer. Tank of the wizards. Spells that up tankyness
2. Air Gensai transmuter. Uses a crossbow, dagger, and buff spells, mainly used alchemy and herbalism kits to make potions and help allies
3.Protector Aasimar diviner (yes very suboptimal) imposes rolls, uses healing hands as a weak attempt to help allies. Has a mix of spells and plans to get the healer feat and be...well the healer
4. Forest gnome illusionist. Used his spells to sneak and deceive, sort of a pseudo rouge.
5 High elf bladesinger. Obviously the damaging melee fighter. Some damage spells, some buffs a good mix.

There's also possibly an addition of a necromancer.

Anyway the question is, will this party survive or die horribly due to their garbage hitpoints. I'm very certain that the DM is not gonna be merciful since he encouraged us against this but whatever. Do you think it can be done?
Well... Yeah, certainly it can be done.
You will certainly suffer much until you get at least level 6-7, and you will have to blow many resources solely on defending yourself.

On the plus side... You will FRIGGING LEARN TEN SPELLS EVERY LEVEL!!!
You really have a chance to realize that dream any Wizard has, without even needing the DM's help! ^^

So, a few advices to help you survive...

1. Have everyone know either Mold Earth or Minor Illusion: those are great to create makeshift covers. With Mold Earth, you may be able to stack them on top of one another... With Minor Illusion, you may coordinate to give a dynamic illusion...
Anyways, those are great...

2. Have someone with good CHA grab Inspiring Leader feat: naturally grows with level, always helpful.

3. Have someone (or several) grab Healer feat: one kit provides more healing than 10 potions, for 1/10th of the price.

4. Use and abuse rituals: since you can all share spells, have everyone knows them all and use as many Alarms and Unseen Servants as possible.

5. Have everyone keep Shield, Absorb Elements, Mirror Image (high DEX) / Blur (other): for obvious reasons.

6. Try to keep pairs with combos: Darkness + Rope Trick (low height) + Message (or just a whistle really) for emergency escape, Grease/Web + Firebolt/Flaming Sphere quick burn area... Also have at least one people prepare half-niche spells such as See invisibility, Detect Thoughts, etc...

7. Once everyone gets lvl 5, let all Animate Dead. Even if none of you is a necro, it will help you much in balancing the action economy.

8. TEAMWORK!! Have the Dwarf and Bladesinger take the lead, don't be afraid of buffing them as needed, try to design coordinated strikes.
Have all the back row use "rider" spells such as Ray of Frost (ask DM if it would stack, I don't think so but he may rule otherwise) and Frostbite to help your "frontliners". Also learn Create Bonfire, at least one of you, to help create chokepoints or holding points (great paired with stacked Mold Earth). A well-placed Grease or Earth Tremor may help them much too.

9. WITS! Always try to bring fights towards locations of your choice (especially once you get Glyph of Warding) or otherwise try to avoid or avert the fights, progress carefully. Don't forget about all the good spells for that: Comprehend Languages, Charm Person, Suggestion, Disguise Self, Detect Magic, Dispel Magic, Leomund's Tiny Hut...

Honestly, a one-level dip in Cleric/Fighter for those being neither Dwarfs nor Bladesinger would help much, but you can do without.
I'd strongly suggest the player that wants to take Healer feat anyways to instead be a Variant Human to get it immediately, but well, if the race is tight with his fluff, so be it.

I think you will grit your teeths for a while, but once level 5 is here, you should have enough tools to start getting the upper hand. And provided you all survive until level 8, then you will all have a real blast. ;)


Shield and abjuration school will make them as tanky as a normal front liner. a full wizard party will utterly destroy encounters unless they encounter anti-magic.
LOL?
Wizards get 2 slots at level 1, 4 slots at level 2 (Arcane Recovery), then up to 6 1st level slots at level 3. So 6 rounds of great AC for the whole day. This is far from enough to "make them as tanky as normal front liners" who all have that level of AC on any other turn, in addition to other tools.
OP is damn right to worry... XD

[Kane0]

Biggest problem will be damage output. As a party you will utterly dominate the battlefield in terms of control but actually killing things that cannot be controlled into submission will take a long time, even with the help of summons and the like as they will often be spread out or dropped fast. You will need to be crafty and efficient with blasting. An evoker may or may not be helpful here.
Secondary concern is concentration and taking damage. At least 1 dwarven abjurer will help a lot, and a conjurer or necromancer for minion frontliners at later levels (if you get that far).
Attached to that damage concern is HP and recovering it. A theurge wizard may be necessary, and feats for THP or healing will be valuable too.

Also don't discount dips and multiclassing.

[JBPuffin]

That specific party may be in trouble...but a group of five to six wizards could probably do alright, and heck, so long as your ability scores aren't all identical, your party could work, OP. The major struggle of a party of wizards is the lack of healing and health in general; your frontliners have, at best, a 1st-level hp of 10, and that's if you can get an 18 in your tertiary stat. Mage Armor and Shield can do a good amount for you, especially for an abjurer, but even they aren't quite enough...

If I were going to do this, my abjurer would be the true tank, probably a Mountain Dwarf build. My second melee, since you need more than one, would be a bladesinger, for obvious reasons. A conjurer, diviner, enchanter, and (for a sixth) a necromancer would fill out the line-up. Healing Elixirs, alchemist's supplies and herbalism kits, and similar non-spell healing would be relied on to keep people alive...assuming I'm not aloud to multiclass. Honestly, just grabbing a level or two in, say, cleric or bard on some of the wizards would help.

[Toofey]

And the dungeon's people will adapt their tactics to deal with this.

Then they should continue to adapt as well, they're WIZARDS. The whole point of the class is thinking laterally.

Anyway "the DM won't let it work" which is what you're boiling down to is a hopeless argument that says nothing and can be used to negate anything if you're willing to accept it. I mean why try thinking creatively at all right?

[Malifice]

Had some fantastic AD&D adventures with a party of Wizards (the campaign was us all started as -3 level with knowledge of a single cantrip, and were all apprentices of a local Evil Wizard, plotting against each other for his favor).

Was a fantastic campaign!

In a more conventional campaign it would work just fine, but the DM would need to really enforce the 6-8 encounter adventuring day (police the 5MWD) seeing as the whole party are long rest dependent.

Make sure (doom clock) that the PCs cant just nova encounters with long rest resources and need to think and be challenged.

[Safety Sword]

DM: You find a rolled up piece of parchment among the belongings of the wizard

Player1: Mine!
Player2: Mine!
Player3: Mine!
Player4: Mine!
Player5: Mine!

*PVP battle*

Player4: Now that I've defeated all of my rivals I claim the parchment and its arcane secrets!

DM: It's his shopping list

[90sMusic]

I think basically any party, with proper strategy and planning, could do well enough to get by in most adventures.

D&D isn't exactly hard and that level of control and firepower would swing things in your favor every time. The biggest dangers you'd have to worry about is dying in the first turn of combat before you have a chance to really setup your controlling effects and also running out of spell slots.

But again, with proper planning and using familiars to scout, perhaps even lure enemies into traps, and so on, should be fine. I think you can make anything work if you really want it to, you just have to always be aware of your strengths and weaknesses.

[Malifice]

DM: You find a rolled up piece of parchment among the belongings of the wizard

Player1: Mine!
Player2: Mine!
Player3: Mine!
Player4: Mine!
Player5: Mine!

*PVP battle*


Player 1: Ill cast lightning bolt
Player 2: Ill counterspell his spell.
Player 1: I'll counter spell his counterspell.
Player 3: Ill counterspell his counterspell of the other guys counterspell
Player 4: Ill counterspell the counterspell of the counterspell that counterspelled the counterspell.
Player 5: Not so fast. Ill counterspell the counterspell that counterspelled the counterspelled countered spell.

[Safety Sword]

Player 1: Ill cast lightning bolt
Player 2: Ill counterspell his spell.
Player 1: I'll counter spell his counterspell.
Player 3: Ill counterspell his counterspell of the other guys counterspell
Player 4: Ill counterspell the counterspell of the counterspell that counterspelled the counterspell.
Player 5: Not so fast. Ill counterspell the counterspell that counterspelled the counterspelled countered spell.

DM: A red dragon swoops down and you all die. Horribly. In a fire.

[Tanarii]

On the plus side... You will FRIGGING LEARN TEN SPELLS EVERY LEVEL!!!
You really have a chance to realize that dream any Wizard has, without even needing the DM's help! ^^lol I was about to post this anyway, then I read your comment:

It's probably a good idea to check with your DM how he feels about the PCs freely allowing each other to copy spells between their spell books. There's no particular reason it can't happen freely, except the cost. But the DM might get a little twisted about it eventually. :smallamused:

[Citan]

lol I was about to post this anyway, then I read your comment:

It's probably a good idea to check with your DM how he feels about the PCs freely allowing each other to copy spells between their spell books. There's no particular reason it can't happen freely, except the cost. But the DM might get a little twisted about it eventually. :smallamused:
Hmm, I half-understand your comment...
I can imagine a DM having cold feets by fear of things getting out of hand, but I'd say until the party gets at least 9th level, there shouldn't be any great shenanigans they could pull off to break things. After all, there are still limited by prepared spells, and none of them of that level (that I can recall) could be game-changer if stacked. Even abusing Glyphs of Warding is in fact difficult since it's most suited to long-term preparation: if you don't get the enemy where you want it, it's all for naught...

On the other hand, it makes easier for the DM to design some scenarios which require party to split off, since he knows that with smarts the players can prepare the right spells among all they have...
Basically it's a chance for any and every niche spell to shine. ;)
And if all players like to really make teamwork, it could lead to some awesome moments, which DM would appreciate even if his carefully crafted encounter was in fact blown away in a round... XD

[robbie374]

AoE against groups, then team up and each cast a different save/disable spell:

Tasha's Hideous Laughter
Sleep
Hold Person

Your BBEG is going to go down eventually, and if he's paralyzed for a turn, everybody can hit him with anything at all and hit!

[Naanomi]

If I had a five wizard team I think I'd go Necromancer (serving the meatshield role with minions); abjurer (serving as point defense and countermagic; everyone in your crew is relatively squishy and needs to have AoEs shut down); transmuter (the only way you are getting access to resurrection); Diviner (general goodness, and the best 'scout'); and... ether a Bladesinger (if you insist on a traditional 'tank') or Evoker (enhanced blastiness)

[SharkForce]

everyone seems to want to use the necromancer minions as a meatshield. personally, i think the better use is sustained DPR. skeletons and zombies make pretty lousy tanks, but a whole bunch of them working together can deal respectable damage, and sustained damage is gonna be your hardest struggle.

in fact, that's also why i have to disagree with any plan that involves all the wizards spamming spells, at least until rather high levels have been reached. with some good choices, your toughness can be close to a proper tank, but your sustained damage in the form of cantrips is going to be lacking. badly. and to overcome that, you're going to need to use your resources very carefully. this is going to be especially visible in the earliest levels, but it will stay true for quite a while, and animate dead gives you a sustained source of damage for 24 hours at a time.

[Rogerdodger557]

Shield and abjuration school will make them as tanky as a normal front liner. a full wizard party will utterly destroy encounters unless they encounter anti-magic.

My party was doing RoT, and while in a bar, a group of cultists sprung their trap, an anti-magic field that filled the room. In addition to magic items being neutralized, everyone in the party was a caster:


EK(Me)
Sorcadin
Light Cleric
Abjurer Wizard(with 1 barb)
Life Cleric(I don't think he was there that session, but still)
Circle of Moon Druid


The DM finally found our weakness, for while making us do saving throws were still a thing, the pall helped with that, and by that point I had indomitable for fails.

[FreddyNoNose]

I don't need to know that party that under the right conditions it would work.