Becoming a Lich

[Demonique]

Hello :)
I'm looking for advice on the whole lich process. i know what the beastiary says, but i'm looking to put some flesh on the bones (so to speak) of the process apart from "it's expensive and difficult and completely up to the DM."
Our DM does not have experience in this kind of 'behind the scenes' stuff - hell, I don't think any group I have ever gamed with has attempted the journey with one of their characters.

I'm not looking for an easy time of it. I'm not looking to go lich "on the cheap". I'm just looking for some guidelines to present to my DM to make the process structured and managable.

Any help would be appreciated.

-Demi-

[legomaster00156]

There is only one concrete, semi-reliable method detailed in the books, and that is the occult ritual Eternal Apotheosis. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-rules/occult-rituals/#Sample_Occult_Rituals)

[Demonique]

It doesn't need to be a single specific ritual (which feels like a short-cut, if I am reacting honestly)
And the idea of having to build a cult large enough to accumulate a small army of L13+ mages seems less than exciting.

I'm asking about ideas or guidance about the length and difficulty of the research, the cost beyond the phylactery (expensive or difficult to acquire materials perhaps), specific quests or tasks.
Ultimately I want to succeed, but I want the achievement to mean something beyond the game mechanics.

I'll try re-reading Rise of the Runelords during the week. I'm sure there was some mention of a lich early on.

-Demi-

[Crake]

Way of the wicked had a small section on becoming a lich, but it basically amounts to "each character's path to lichdom should be a unique experience, tailored to the character".

Basically, there is no cookie cutter method to ascending to lichdom. It takes the better part of a year, and almost 90% of a 13th level character's wealth by level. Note the ritual is doable as early as level 11, but requires 120k in materials and other associated costs to craft the phylactery.

If you want to take the burden off the GM, and give the player some more agency, you could instead have the player decide how the crafting process occurs, after all, it is their character that's becoming a lich, why not?

[Footman]

Well you know the requirements right?

1. You need the Craft Wonderous item Feat.
2. You need to have a Caster Lvl of at least 11.
3. You need to create your own Phylactery which costs 120.000 Gold Coins.

Guidance on the Length and Difficulty? Very Long, very expansive, and very Difficult. Let me quote:


The quest to become a lich is a lengthy one. While construction of the magical phylactery to contain the spellcaster's soul is a critical component, a prospective lich must also learn the secrets of transferring his soul into the receptacle and of preparing his body for the transformation into undeath, neither of which are simple tasks. Further complicating the ritual is the fact that no two bodies or souls are exactly alike—a ritual that works for one spellcaster might simply kill another or drive him insane. The exact methods for each spellcaster's transformation are left to the GM's discretion, but should involve expenditures of hundreds of thousands of gold pieces, numerous deadly adventures, and a large number of difficult skill checks over the course of months, years, or decades.

I would advise the Agent of the Grave Prestiege Classes, which explicently gives you a Bonus for turning into an Undead creature at Lvl 5.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/agent-of-the-grave/
Take the Prestigous Spellcaster Feat, so that you don't lose Caster Lvl.

[Red Fel]

The bottom line is that it's left open-ended for a reason. Two reasons, actually.

First, as has been stated, the idea is to be highly individualized, and to leave a lot to the DM (and player, for a Lich PC). If it were just a case of "insert relic A into altar B," it wouldn't be nearly as creepy or horrifying; it should be fairly distinctive. Historically (i.e. in 3.5) it involved "unspeakably evil" actions; while that's less explicit in PF, it's still fairly understood that it's meant to be dark and disturbing. Much like horror films, that's a very subjective and personal standard; I can't put Freddy Kreuger in front of you and say, "This, this is what scares you the most, that's it." In the same vein, what constitutes "numerous deadly adventures", "large numbers of difficult skill checks," and "abhorrent to most creatures" is going to vary from person to person, and stating an explicit process would simply kill that.

Which leads us to the second point: It wasn't intended to happen on camera. The process of becoming a Lich is fraught with abomination. It involves violating numerous cosmic laws. Severing the connection between the body and soul. Causing both to endure without being combined. Becoming a living Undead. Rewriting how reality defines you in a manner wholly unlike any other form of Undeath, more akin to an Outsider. Harnessing arcane forces even some Necromancers look at askance. That's what you're doing in becoming a Lich.

Further, the process is "unspeakably evil." Unspeakably, as in "too disturbing to be spoken of." This isn't a mundane act of Evil, like murder or rape or singing Celine Dion at karaoke night. This is Evil on a grand scale, like creating a Liquid Pain factory fueled entirely by orphans, or creating a memetic virus by casting Dominate Person on another spellcaster who knows Dominate Person, or casting Familicide (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0639.html), or organizing a reunion special of Three's Company. In short: If it doesn't turn your stomach to describe your character doing it, either (1) it's not Evil enough, or (2) you're a sociopath.

The solution? Let it happen off camera. Agree with your DM on a cost, a time period, a research period, and a list of adventures, ingredients, and rituals. Do some in-the-background rolls. Be aware of what it takes - for example, your research checks may reveal that you must "sever all ties to your past life, with prejudice," so you decide to kill everyone significant to you and use their remains as ingredients - but don't actually act out the scenes. Just do some rolls to confirm that they happened, shudder a little, and move on. Let it occur in the background of your adventuring days, in the downtime between sessions or campaign arcs, because it takes time and research and effort.

And then, when it's complete, let it be suitably horrifying. Let the actual moment of apotheosis be on camera. Let the party watch as you mystically rip something dark and pulsating out of your chest, cramming it violently into whatever you've chosen your phylactery to be. Let them cringe as you scream in agony as your body, now deprived of its soul, withers away like that guy in Last Crusade, your tortured wails echoing even as the air crackles with necrotic energies. Someone will probably have to leave the table as your skin tightens, bubbles, and rots off, your eyes roll into your skull, and your anguished screams become hollow and reedy, gradually replaced with the maniacal laughter of a voice that no longer needs to breathe between bouts of cackling.

But yeah. "Guidelines," "structured," and "manageable" aren't words I'd use to describe the highly personal and viscerally horrifying process of violating cosmic law, ripping out your soul and rotting away to a living skeleton before the terrified faces of onlookers.

[Psyren]

This isn't a mundane act of Evil, like murder or rape or singing Celine Dion at karaoke night.

I see what you did there :smalltongue:

(I think you're spot on with the designer intent of lichdom.)

[Demonique]

You know? the liquid pain factory actually sounds like a 'good' idea....
The character is already an outsider, by most (including Pathfinder) recognized definitions of the word.

I get what Red Fel is explaining, and think I understand a lot better now.
Also, with levels in Soul Eater and Agent of the Grave, he could 'fake' being a lich quite easily (making the grand reveal either unnoticeable or all the more horrible)

I have a lot to think on, and a few ideas how to proceed. Thank you.

-Demi-

[Biguds]

Hello guys.

A long time ago, I had read about one recipe to become a lich. I think it was from a article on WoTC site.
Scanning my files I actually had it saved up, so, there it is:

Arsenic (2 drops of the purest distillate)
Belladonna (1 drop of the purest distillate)
Blood (1 quart of blood from a dead virginal human infant killed by wyvern venom)
Blood (1 quart from a dead demihuman slain by a phase spider)
Blood (1 quart from a vampire or a being infected with vampirism)
Heart (the intact heart of a humanoid killed by poisoning; a mixture of arsenic and belladonna must be used)
Reproductive glands (from seven giant moths dead for less than 10 days, ground together)
Venom (1 pint or more, drawn from a phase spider less than 30 days previous)
Venom (1 pint or more, drawn from a wyvern less than 60 days previous)

The ingredients are mixed in the order given by the light of a full moon, and must be drunk within seven days after they combine into a bluish glowing, sparkling black liquid. All of the potion must be drunk by the candidate, and within 6 rounds will produce an effect as follows (roll percentile dice):

Lichnee Potion Table
01-10 All body hair falls out, but potion is ineffective (the candidate knows this). Another potion must be prepared if lichdom is desired.
11-40 Candidate falls into a coma for 1d6 + 1 days, is physically helpless and immobile, mentally unreachable.
Potion works; the candidate knows this.
41-70 Potion works, but candidate is feebleminded, Any failed attempt to cure the candidate’s condition is 20%
likely to slay the candidate.
71-90 Potion works, but candidate is paralyzed for 2d6 + 2 days (no saving throw, curative magics notwithstanding). There is a 30% chance for permanent loss of 1d6 Dexterity points.
91-96 Potion works, but candidate is permanently deaf (01-33), dumb (34-66), or blind (67-00). The lost sense can only be regained by a full or limited wish.
97-00 Death of the candidate. Potion does not work.

[Psyren]

Hello guys.

A long time ago, I had read about one recipe to become a lich. I think it was from a article on WoTC site.
Scanning my files I actually had it saved up, so, there it is:

Arsenic (2 drops of the purest distillate)
Belladonna (1 drop of the purest distillate)
Blood (1 quart of blood from a dead virginal human infant killed by wyvern venom)
Blood (1 quart from a dead demihuman slain by a phase spider)
Blood (1 quart from a vampire or a being infected with vampirism)
Heart (the intact heart of a humanoid killed by poisoning; a mixture of arsenic and belladonna must be used)
Reproductive glands (from seven giant moths dead for less than 10 days, ground together)
Venom (1 pint or more, drawn from a phase spider less than 30 days previous)
Venom (1 pint or more, drawn from a wyvern less than 60 days previous)

The ingredients are mixed in the order given by the light of a full moon, and must be drunk within seven days after they combine into a bluish glowing, sparkling black liquid. All of the potion must be drunk by the candidate, and within 6 rounds will produce an effect as follows (roll percentile dice):

Lichnee Potion Table
01-10 All body hair falls out, but potion is ineffective (the candidate knows this). Another potion must be prepared if lichdom is desired.
11-40 Candidate falls into a coma for 1d6 + 1 days, is physically helpless and immobile, mentally unreachable.
Potion works; the candidate knows this.
41-70 Potion works, but candidate is feebleminded, Any failed attempt to cure the candidate’s condition is 20%
likely to slay the candidate.
71-90 Potion works, but candidate is paralyzed for 2d6 + 2 days (no saving throw, curative magics notwithstanding). There is a 30% chance for permanent loss of 1d6 Dexterity points.
91-96 Potion works, but candidate is permanently deaf (01-33), dumb (34-66), or blind (67-00). The lost sense can only be regained by a full or limited wish.
97-00 Death of the candidate. Potion does not work.



That procedure is from 2e I believe, Lords of Darkness splat. You need to be 18th level rather than 11th IIRC.

I'm unsure if the 3e version of that splat still contains the ritual.

[Demonique]

OK, talked to my GM.

Basically, he said "ask again when the character is L20"
This is in full knowledge that the campaign will never reach that kind of level, so he is saying "Not on my watch".

Can't lie, I'm a little disappointed, but hey ho.

-Demi-