Multiclass Advice Champion 11/?

[Foxydono]

I'm currently playing The Rise of Tiamat with my Champion Mountain Dwarf fighter and I just hit level 12. His stats are 20 STR, 14 DEX, 20 CON, 10 INT, 12 WIS and 8 CHA. The other people in the party are a warlock, 5 barb/rogue x, 2 fighter/mystic x, tank barb 3/pally x.

I now have to ask myself the question; to multiclass or not the multiclass? Keep in mind the campaign will continue till 20 at least, if we survive that long. We will most likely go to the 9 hells after finishing the rise of Tiatat, although I do not know yet what awaits us there. Also, UA is allowed (obviously since we have a mystic in the party).

Sticking with the Fighter/Champion, although not considered the best class, does have its advantages. Multiclassing can be good as well. Going 3 into Barbarian for bear/wolf since I'm melee or rogue for expertise, sneak attack and cunning action. If you go ranger you get hunters mark and horde breaker. So my question is, what are the best multiclassing options and which one would you choose? Or would you stick with the Champion for the regen/extra attack and more critz?

[Aett_Thorn]

I'm currently playing The Rise of Tiamat with my Champion Mountain Dwarf fighter and I just hit level 12. His stats are 20 STR, 14 DEX, 20 CON, 10 INT, 12 WIS and 8 CHA. The other people in the party are a warlock, 5 barb/rogue x, 2 fighter/mystic x, tank barb 3/pally x.

I now have to ask myself the question; to multiclass or not the multiclass? Keep in mind the campaign will continue till 20 at least, if we survive that long. We will most likely go to the 9 hells after finishing the rise of Tiatat, although I do not know yet what awaits us there. Also, UA is allowed (obviously since we have a mystic in the party).

Sticking with the Fighter/Champion, although not considered the best class, does have its advantages. Multiclassing can be good as well. Going 3 into Barbarian for bear/wolf since I'm melee or rogue for expertise, sneak attack and cunning action. If you go ranger you get hunters mark and horde breaker. So my question is, what are the best multiclassing options and which one would you choose? Or would you stick with the Champion for the regen/extra attack and more critz?

I'd be tempted to go Barb for at least a few levels, especially if you know that you are going to be headed towards the Nine Hells. Going Bear Barb would give you resistance to all damage types at level 3. However, you already have two Barbs in the group.

You don't have the stats to go Ranger (you'd need 13 in Wis for that), I'd say go a level or two in Rogue. Remember that Sneak Attack dice are also doubled on a crit, so that'll pair well with your improved crit range. But you'd have to use a finesse weapon (even if you use Str to attack with it), and not sure if that fits your concept or not.

[Easy_Lee]

What is your fighting style?

If you're a great weapon fighter, then barbarian is really your only multiclass option with those stats. Reckless Attack + Champion on a GWM is a meat grinder. Nothing wrong with that multiclass even if you have other barbarians in the group. This will add better features than the rest of your fighter levels.

If you're TWF or dueling, I would multiclass rogue. Your group could use a skill expert, it will give you additional bonus action opportunities, uncanny dodge is great on a fighter, and the sneak attack die will add more damage (and much sooner) than an additional attack at 20.

[Dudewithknives]

I'm currently playing The Rise of Tiamat with my Champion Mountain Dwarf fighter and I just hit level 12. His stats are 20 STR, 14 DEX, 20 CON, 10 INT, 12 WIS and 8 CHA. The other people in the party are a warlock, 5 barb/rogue x, 2 fighter/mystic x, tank barb 3/pally x.

I now have to ask myself the question; to multiclass or not the multiclass? Keep in mind the campaign will continue till 20 at least, if we survive that long. We will most likely go to the 9 hells after finishing the rise of Tiatat, although I do not know yet what awaits us there. Also, UA is allowed (obviously since we have a mystic in the party).

Sticking with the Fighter/Champion, although not considered the best class, does have its advantages. Multiclassing can be good as well. Going 3 into Barbarian for bear/wolf since I'm melee or rogue for expertise, sneak attack and cunning action. If you go ranger you get hunters mark and horde breaker. So my question is, what are the best multiclassing options and which one would you choose? Or would you stick with the Champion for the regen/extra attack and more critz?

Your group looks very solid when it comes to front line people.

Rogue is good but only if you normally use a weapon that sneak attack works with, and as a dwarf I really doubt you are using a weapon that can be finessed.

If you wanted to multi class I would take 12th in fighter just for the extra ASI (possibly resilient Wisdom) and then go Revised Ranger since evidently UA is fine.

I try not to read into any of the published modules in case I ever end up playing through one, so this might not exactly work there.

[Foxydono]

I'd be tempted to go Barb for at least a few levels, especially if you know that you are going to be headed towards the Nine Hells. Going Bear Barb would give you resistance to all damage types at level 3. However, you already have two Barbs in the group.

You don't have the stats to go Ranger (you'd need 13 in Wis for that), I'd say go a level or two in Rogue. Remember that Sneak Attack dice are also doubled on a crit, so that'll pair well with your improved crit range. But you'd have to use a finesse weapon (even if you use Str to attack with it), and not sure if that fits your concept or not.
I'm definitly tempted going Barbarian, but I am wielding a Dwarven plate (+2) and a +1 shield, so it will cost me some valuable AC. As for my weapon I'm using a dwarven thrower, which is really handy since I can attack at range, but no finesse unfortunately. As for ranger I'd have to take resilient Wis first, so it's still a good option.


What is your fighting style?

If you're a great weapon fighter, then barbarian is really your only multiclass option with those stats. Reckless Attack + Champion on a GWM is a meat grinder. Nothing wrong with that multiclass even if you have other barbarians in the group. This will add better features than the rest of your fighter levels.

If you're TWF or dueling, I would multiclass rogue. Your group could use a skill expert, it will give you additional bonus action opportunities, uncanny dodge is great on a fighter, and the sneak attack die will add more damage (and much sooner) than an additional attack at 20.
My fighting styles are dualing and defense. I did take the sentinal feat, but not PAM or GWM. I wanted a more defensive approach with shield, but I could still switch. I think I might convince my DM to switch a fighting style during dowtime if I spend enough time training for it. Guess I took a wrong turn somewere, but it seemed a good idea at the time :p

So I'm really suited (fighting style wise) for either rogue or barb, that's one of the reasons I'm asking for some advice :p



Your group looks very solid when it comes to front line people.

Rogue is good but only if you normally use a weapon that sneak attack works with, and as a dwarf I really doubt you are using a weapon that can be finessed.

If you wanted to multi class I would take 12th in fighter just for the extra ASI (possibly resilient Wisdom) and then go Revised Ranger since evidently UA is fine.

I try not to read into any of the published modules in case I ever end up playing through one, so this might not exactly work there.

Yea, good solid front fighters! As you've guessed I am currently equipped with a dwarven thrower which is not finesse. The revised rogue is definitly an option, but which one are you reffering too, there are quite a few!

[Dudewithknives]

I'm definitly tempted going Barbarian, but I am wielding a Dwarven plate (+2) and a +1 shield, so it will cost me some valuable AC. As for my weapon I'm using a dwarven thrower, which is really handy since I can attack at range, but no finesse unfortunately. As for ranger I'd have to take resilient Wis first, so it's still a good option.


My fighting styles are dualing and defense. I did take the sentinal feat, but not PAM or GWM. I wanted a more defensive approach with shield, but I could still switch. I think I might convince my DM to switch a fighting style during dowtime if I spend enough time training for it. Guess I took a wrong turn somewere, but it seemed a good idea at the time :p

So I'm really suited (fighting style wise) for either rogue or barb, that's one of the reasons I'm asking for some advice :p




Yea, good solid front fighters! As you've guessed I am currently equipped with a dwarven thrower which is not finesse. The revised rogue is definitly an option, but which one are you reffering too, there are quite a few!

I prefer the deepstalker, personally. If you have a dwarves thrower, which in my opinion is BY FAR the most powerful weapon in the game that is not an artifact, then rogue is kind of useless as you can't sneak attack with it. Rogues require a ranged weapon, not a ranged attack with a melee weapon.

[Zman]

Barbarian 2 for Rage and Reckless Attack. Then finish back up to Champion 18 for a second action surge, crits on 18s and regeneration. Champion 17 is critical, but Champion 18 can be sacrificed for Barbarian 3, Wolf for being your allies favorite person, or Bear for being even more durable, Berserker is possible if you have an easy way to mitigate exhaustion or DM lets you wave it.

[RSP]

If you know you're going 20, I'd go Champ 18 for +10 HPs/turn and the extra Action Surge at 17. I'd throw in Tough as a feat as well, maybe take Fellhanded to go with the hammer you use.

Then its Barb 2 for Reckless and Rage (Reckless w Fellhanded would be a lot of auto knockdowns; Rage +10 HP/turn is pretty fantastic as well).

[DarkKnightJin]

Barbarian doesn't mean you -can't- wear heavy armor. You just wont get some of the perks if you wear it. Unarmored Defense and the movement increase come to mind. Not sure about Danger Sense, AFB roght now.

[MeeposFire]

Barbarian doesn't mean you -can't- wear heavy armor. You just wont get some of the perks if you wear it. Unarmored Defense and the movement increase come to mind. Not sure about Danger Sense, AFB roght now.

Also most of your rage benefits which is a big part of the reason to go barb (technically you get some back by taking bear totem but some people think that is an exploit).

[djreynolds]

What about level 15? Crits on 18s,19s, 20s with any weapon

You could grab resilient wisdom at some point, thus increasing wisdom to 13 and grab cleric, war cleric has divine favor

But you want champion 15 first. I would take shield master, and 1 level of rogue for expertise or the new brawny feat

Shove with shield master and expertise in athletics, slam your hammer with advantage... rinse and repeat, you will see many crits with 18, 19, 20s

IMO, get to level 15 first. You want resilient wisdom, shield master, brawny/level of rogue

Dragons are scary, the cause fear

[DarkKnightJin]

Also most of your rage benefits which is a big part of the reason to go barb (technically you get some back by taking bear totem but some people think that is an exploit).

You are correct. Forget what I said, then.
Apparently, you really can't wear heavy armor as a Barb without losing a ton of goodies.

[RSP]

You are correct. Forget what I said, then.
Apparently, you really can't wear heavy armor as a Barb without losing a ton of goodies.

Yeah I missed that too. Just go Champ 20 for 4 attacks.

[djreynolds]

Dwarven resilience and squat nimbleness/brawny are feats worth looking into. As is resilient wisdom and shield master.

What do you have for feats?

[Foxydono]

Dwarven resilience and squat nimbleness/brawny are feats worth looking into. As is resilient wisdom and shield master.

What do you have for feats?
I took squat nimbleness and +2 str and +2 con. Was thinking of getting resilient wis and shield master as I level up, so you are right on the money :p


What about level 15? Crits on 18s,19s, 20s with any weapon

You could grab resilient wisdom at some point, thus increasing wisdom to 13 and grab cleric, war cleric has divine favor

But you want champion 15 first. I would take shield master, and 1 level of rogue for expertise or the new brawny feat

Shove with shield master and expertise in athletics, slam your hammer with advantage... rinse and repeat, you will see many crits with 18, 19, 20s

IMO, get to level 15 first. You want resilient wisdom, shield master, brawny/level of rogue

Dragons are scary, the cause fear
That is indeed a good option. I think I'll stick with the champion till lvl 20 though. Barbarian is nice, but I should have taken another route then and gone without a shield and with a twohander. Rogue doesn't work well because of sneak attack, although cunning action is awesome of course. Ranger idoesn't seem like an ideal fit either.


Yeah I missed that too. Just go Champ 20 for 4 attacks.
Yes, that's what I'll do!

Thanks for all the advice. As mentioned before I'll go champion till 20, grab shield master as my feat and resilient Wis when I hit 14th level.

[Specter]

With your crappy mental stats, you can't multiclass into classes that could give you damage spells (Divine Favor, Hunter's Mark, etc.). And with two barbs in the group, I wouldn't want to be one. So my only suggestion would be Rogue, IF you're using a one-handed weapon. Otherwise, Fighter all the way.

[Citan]

I'm currently playing The Rise of Tiamat with my Champion Mountain Dwarf fighter and I just hit level 12. His stats are 20 STR, 14 DEX, 20 CON, 10 INT, 12 WIS and 8 CHA. The other people in the party are a warlock, 5 barb/rogue x, 2 fighter/mystic x, tank barb 3/pally x.

I now have to ask myself the question; to multiclass or not the multiclass? Keep in mind the campaign will continue till 20 at least, if we survive that long. We will most likely go to the 9 hells after finishing the rise of Tiatat, although I do not know yet what awaits us there. Also, UA is allowed (obviously since we have a mystic in the party).

Sticking with the Fighter/Champion, although not considered the best class, does have its advantages. Multiclassing can be good as well. Going 3 into Barbarian for bear/wolf since I'm melee or rogue for expertise, sneak attack and cunning action. If you go ranger you get hunters mark and horde breaker. So my question is, what are the best multiclassing options and which one would you choose? Or would you stick with the Champion for the regen/extra attack and more critz?
Hey ;)
I'm probably too late to the party but, in case another opinion is still interesting to you...
Stick Fighter all the way.
- One chance to play a pure class at its summun.
- 4th attack is still one of the best features you may want, especially with those crazy stats.
- The 18th level Survivor? Idem.
- Plus extra ASI, always useful.

Rogue is mostly useless in your case, apart from giving you extra mobility, which is indeed nice. Worth capstone? Well, YMMV.
Barbarian gives a good boost but comes with many limitations. Also, won't resolve the ranged attack problem.

In your stead, I'd keep straight Fighter and rack on feats, there are several things you could do. For example...
- Tough: will make you stupidly resilient once Survivor comes online (since it triggers when you are half-HP: with an extra 40 HP it will act sooner).
- Shield Master and Defensive Duelist would further improve your tanking.
- Mage Slayer is probably one I'd recommend any day, precisely because you are really resilient, it would help you make life hard for those enemy casters.
- Mobile: extra speed always help.
- Sentinel: you will stick into melee, so might as well make the most of it.
- Magic Initiate, Ritual Caster, Healer feat: if you want to explore new horizons or be otherwise useful to your party beyond being great at killing things (or blowing doors).

However, Sharpshooter which I often advise to STR martials that are weak on the ranged side... Would really be useless for you because of the drawing interaction mechanics (you would make 2 attacks at best then be unarmed, might as well Dash instead). Honestly since you don't even have any decent mental stat I don't see any way for you to be useful when ranged attacks are needed as a sword&shield handler (would have been different to a degree as a dual wielder).
Might as well live with it and just ask for a Fly or Haste from... Ahem, nobody in fact. XD

[KorvinStarmast]

I'd recommend keeping yourself Fighter as level 12 to get the next ASI / feat before you MC at 13. That offers you two ASI/Feats to support the class you add to your build if you make it to 20.
I'm currently playing The Rise of Tiamat with my Champion Mountain Dwarf fighter and I just hit level 12. His stats are 20 STR, 14 DEX, 20 CON, 10 INT, 12 WIS and 8 CHA. The other people in the party are a warlock, 5 barb/rogue x, 2 fighter/mystic x, tank barb 3/pally x. your options are a little bit limited otherwise.
Multiclassing Prerequisites (SRD/PHB)

Class -- Ability Score Minimum
Barbarian -- Strength 13
Bard -- Charisma 13
Cleric -- Wisdom 13
Druid -- Wisdom 13
Monk -- Dexterity 13 and Wisdom 13
Paladin -- Strength 13 and Charisma 13
Ranger -- Dexterity 13 and Wisdom 13
Rogue -- Dexterity 13
Sorcerer -- Charisma 13
Warlock -- Charisma 13
Wizard -- Intelligence 13
You can't MC into Wizard, nor Warlock, nor Sorceer due to your lack of 13's.
You can MC into Ranger at lvl 12 if you bump Wisdom to 13 or 14.
Cha is too low for you to MC Paladin.
Monk you can do with a wisdom bump at 12 as well, so your MC entry is 13.
Druid and Cleric likewise.

Here's an idea. If you take the Resilient Feat, Wisdom, at 12, you bump wisdom to 13 and get proficiency in wis saves. (Which are reasonably common). Your Con is high enough that your saves for concentration spells like bless, and others later on like Spirit Guardian, would more often pass than not. Or Ranger, and start to get some helpful spells and abilities as the levels progress. Your dex and that increase in Wis would allows for that. Collosus Slayer seems to be a nice way to keep boosting damage when you are engaged with high CR monsters with a load of HP.


RESILIENT
Choose one ability score. You gain the following benefits:
1. Increase the chosen ability score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
2. You gain proficiency in saving throws using the chosen ability.

Barbarian is the easy choice.

Bear Totem / Rage providing resistance to everything but psychic damage makes you tankalicious.

[Mortis_Elrod]

However, Sharpshooter which I often advise to STR martials that are weak on the ranged side... Would really be useless for you because of the drawing interaction mechanics (you would make 2 attacks at best then be unarmed, might as well Dash instead). Honestly since you don't even have any decent mental stat I don't see any way for you to be useful when ranged attacks are needed as a sword&shield handler (would have been different to a degree as a dual wielder).
Might as well live with it and just ask for a Fly or Haste from... Ahem, nobody in fact. XD

He's got a Dwarven Thrower, thats all the ranged he needs. Gonna agree though, Full champion fighter is the way to go here.

[Citan]

He's got a Dwarven Thrower, thats all the ranged he needs. Gonna agree though, Full champion fighter is the way to go here.
Wow...
Missed that on the first read, went to check on internet...
Is it me or is this weapon stupidly good?
@OP: "Sharpshooter is useless for you". Scratch that. Totally. Like, get Sharpshooter on level 12. XD

Getting what is basically a dream come true for any thrower wanabee (weapon flying back in hand automatically) means that Sharpshooter makes an effective reach increase of 40 feet (20 feet > 60 feet).
With 60 feet you will be actually pretty decent or even possibly great against backliner enemies or low-flying creatures. ;)
Plus you can now laugh in the face of those powerful creatures with their bigass giant axes as they get skewered up while desperately trying to reach you.:smallbiggrin: