The lore distinctions between Sorcerer, Arcanist, and Wizard?

[WorldAdventurer]

To be clear, I do not mean "arcanist" as it is sometimes used in Golarion to refer to any arcane caster, but rather as the character class.

The Sorcerer: Scions of innately magical bloodlines, the chosen of deities, the spawn of monsters, pawns of fate and destiny, or simply flukes of fickle magic, sorcerers look within themselves for arcane prowess and draw forth might few mortals can imagine. Emboldened by lives ever threatening to be consumed by their innate powers, these magic-touched souls endlessly indulge in and refine their mysterious abilities, gradually learning how to harness their birthright and coax forth ever greater arcane feats. Just as varied as these innately powerful spellcasters’ abilities and inspirations are the ways in which they choose to utilize their gifts. While some seek to control their abilities through meditation and discipline, becoming masters of their fantastic birthright, others give in to their magic, letting it rule their lives with often explosive results. Regardless, sorcerers live and breathe that which other spellcasters devote their lives to mastering, and for them magic is more than a boon or a field of study; it is life itself. - Pathfinder Core Rulebook

The Arcanist: Some spellcasters seek the secrets of magic, pursuing the power to make the impossible possible. Others are born with magic in their blood, commanding unbelievable forces as effortlessly as they breathe. Yet still others seek to meld the science of arcane scholars with the natural might of innate casters. These arcanists seek to discover the mysterious laws of magic and through will and expertise bend those forces to their whims. Arcanists are the shapers and tinkers of the arcane world, and no magic can resist their control. - Advanced Class Guide

The Wizard: Beyond the veil of the mundane hide the secrets of absolute power. The works of beings beyond mortals, the legends of realms where gods and spirits tread, the lore of creations both wondrous and terrible—such mysteries call to those with the ambition and the intellect to rise above the common folk to grasp true might. Such is the path of the wizard. These shrewd magic-users seek, collect, and covet esoteric knowledge, drawing on cultic arts to work wonders beyond the abilities of mere mortals. While some might choose a particular field of magical study and become masters of such powers, others embrace versatility, reveling in the unbounded wonders of all magic. In either case, wizards prove a cunning and potent lot, capable of smiting their foes, empowering their allies, and shaping the world to their every desire. - Pathfinder Core Rulebook

Given how their class entries read, this seems to be the rough impression I am getting.

Inborn Magic = Sorcerer
Arcane Knowledge = Wizard
Inborn Magic + Arcane Knowledge = Arcanist

But there seems to be flaws in this scheme to me, part of the sorcerer entry reads, "some seek to control their abilities through meditation and discipline". Which makes me wonder when exactly does someone with inborn magic cross the fuzzy line between Sorcerer and Arcanist?

Well one main point of difference is that while sorcerers and arcanist both mainly use Charisma to use their powers and exploits the sorcerer uses Charisma to fuel their magic while the arcanist uses Intelligence like a Wizard does.

According to the core rulebook: "Intelligence determines how well your character learns and reasons.", which is a helpful definition.

But it says "Charisma measures a character’s personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance." Well considering that the ability to lead, personal magnetism, and appearance are not likely the fuel for sorcerers' spells this definition is not very useful for us. But, it does also tell us what a character with no charisma is like: "A character with a Charisma score of 0 is not able to exert himself in any way" This is more useful, because this tells us that Charisma is likely a measure of willpower and appearances, which would usually lead itself to having the other traits associated with a high charisma score.

So I think that one difference we can find between these three classes is the following:

Sorcerers: They have innate magic and bloodline powers that they can control through their willpower alone.
Arcanists: They use their reasoning skills to use arcane knowledge to cast spells, but they use their willpower alone to modify these spells from their innate magic.
Wizards: They use their reasoning skills to use arcane knowledge to cast spells, as well do some other arcane tricks.

So it seems to me that this is where the clear distinction between the three classes are:

A sorcerer has innate magic and can study magic, or use discipline to control it, but they fuel their magic with their willpower alone. Sorcerers also manifest powers from the source(s) of their bloodlines.

An arcanist has innate magic and must study magic and unlike the sorcerer, they use their reasoning skills and knowledge to cast spells, unlike the wizard they use their willpower to manipulate their innate magic. Arcanists do not usually conform to the wizard idea of schools of magic or develop sorcerers bloodlines but they can do either and still be arcanists.

A wizard does not use innate magic and must study magic. All of their spells and powers use their reasoning skills and knowledge and they generally recognize the existence of schools of magic.

But these are simply my interpretations.

What are your thoughts?

[Epic Legand]

While fluff is easily disguarded, crunch is not. You can be a learned Sorc ( Sage) and the archtypes of Arcanist allow for Magus, witch, wizard, ect like varients. Trying to apply crunch like results to fluff is never going to work. You could have a coven and add an arcainist without batting an eye, or you could run a collage for wizards, and easily have sorceres and arcainist attending. You could not have your wizard have a BAB of the fighter, nor have D10's for hit dice. I do not think you will find a solid answer in fluff, it varies to much with whims or taste.

[WorldAdventurer]

While fluff is easily disguarded, crunch is not. You can be a learned Sorc ( Sage) and the archtypes of Arcanist allow for Magus, witch, wizard, ect like varients. Trying to apply crunch like results to fluff is never going to work. You could have a coven and add an arcainist without batting an eye, or you could run a collage for wizards, and easily have sorceres and arcainist attending. You could not have your wizard have a BAB of the fighter, nor have D10's for hit dice. I do not think you will find a solid answer in fluff, it varies to much with whims or taste.

This is a lore discussion, as such I will be taking the fluff and crunch together into account, not separately.

That being said, you where citing variations in the "crunch" and in people's perceptions of the "fluff" to be evidence that the fluff is the part that cannot provide a solid answer, when you unintentionally made the case that the opposite is true.

[Mato]

Not entirely Pathfinder-related but in D&D an arcanist is any character who can cast arcane spells. The term is essentially synonymous with "arcane spellcaster." And an arcane spellcaster whose primary talent is spellcasting is called a mage. Bards, for example, are not referred to as mages (as sorcerers and wizards are) because spellcasting is simply one facet of their overall talents. In most human cities and towns, the general populace is notoriously insensitive to the distinctions of training, skill, and talent that separate arcane spellcasters. The differences between a sorcerer and an enchanter, a warlock and a necromancer, or an evoker and a warmage are lost on such people, and any arcane spellcaster (other than the bard, who is generally easy to identify) is equally likely to be called mage, arcanist, sorcerer, enchanter, or wizard by someone without any real understanding of the character’s true skills. To most people, distinctions between types of arcane spellcaster matter only to arcanists themselves.

Sorcerers cast spells through innate power rather than through careful training and study. Their magic is intuitive rather than logical and sorcerers create magic the way a poet creates poems, with inborn talent honed by practice. Sorcerers develop rudimentary powers at puberty. Their first spells are incomplete, spontaneous, uncontrolled, and sometimes dangerous. Developing this power is a quest in itself for many sorcerers, regardless of how they wish to use their power. Wizards however depend on intensive study to create their magic. They examine musty old tomes, debate magical theory with their peers, and practice minor magics whenever they can. For a wizard, magic is not a talent but a difficult, rewarding art that required years apprenticeship to learn. They seek knowledge, power, and the resources to conduct their studies. In civilized lands where wizards study in academies, schools, or guilds, wizards also identify themselves and others according to membership in these formal organizations.

[WorldAdventurer]

Not entirely Pathfinder-related but in D&D an arcanist is any character who can cast arcane spells. The term is essentially synonymous with "arcane spellcaster."

This was specifically addressed in the very first sentence of my OP. I would much prefer that you read the discussion in full before responding.

[Sam K]

I think you should replace "willpower" with "force of personality", but other than that it seems like your descriptions are fairly good. Wizard learns and casts through study. Arcanist learns through study but casts through force of personality. Sorcerer learns innately and casts through force of personality.

[WorldAdventurer]

I think you should replace "willpower" with "force of personality"

Can you explain to me this perceived difference?


Arcanist learns through study but casts through force of personality.

Is this what you intended to write? Because Arcanists have innate magic and cast using Int.

[Sam K]

Whoops, got the arcanist confused. My PF knowledge is nowhere near my 3.5 knowledge, sorry for that.

The difference, as I see it, is that willpower is INTERNAL where as force of personality is EXTERNAL. Willpower is your ability to impose your will on yourself, force of personality is your ability to impose your will on others (and in the case of sorcerers, on the laws of physics).

I would relate willpower to wisdom (especially considering the will-save being effected by wis), whereas force of personality is related to charisma.

[WorldAdventurer]

Whoops, got the arcanist confused. My PF knowledge is nowhere near my 3.5 knowledge, sorry for that.

The difference, as I see it, is that willpower is INTERNAL where as force of personality is EXTERNAL. Willpower is your ability to impose your will on yourself, force of personality is your ability to impose your will on others (and in the case of sorcerers, on the laws of physics).

I would relate willpower to wisdom (especially considering the will-save being effected by wis), whereas force of personality is related to charisma.

That is a rather interesting interpretation.

Thank you for the insight.

[Mato]

Not entirely Pathfinder-related but in D&DThis was specifically addressed in the very first sentence of my OP. I would much prefer that you read the discussion in full before responding.You read 7% of my post, didn't understand the part you quoted, and complained about not fully reading posts to a person trying to help you with two thirds of the classes you asked about.

I know you just joined but I think you'll fit into GitP perfectly.


Whoops, got the arcanist confused. My PF knowledge is nowhere near my 3.5 knowledge, sorry for that.It's not holding you back through.

I feel like you've read page 109 of complete warrior before too...

[ahyangyi]

I believe the "some seek to control their abilities through meditation and discipline" sentence in sorcerer's description is about their attempt to control their innate power, as it then tries to contrast with other sorcerers who "give in to their magic".

So the difference is obvious: wizards learn and research first, and gain power only as a result. Sorcerer are born with magical power, then they practice to properly use their power. The order is different.

The arcanist is indeed tricky though.