They added gith in ua!

[Dankus Memakus]

How do you guys feel about the gith? I'm personally underwhelmed by the githyanki but I love gith so I'm gonna ignore that im dissatisfied

[Cybren]

Who hurt you so badly that you decided to take it out on us by not linking to the article

[nickl_2000]

Who hurt you so badly that you decided to take it out on us by not linking to the article

It's in the UA September thread (and a discussion as well :) )

[Dankus Memakus]

Who hurt you so badly that you decided to take it out on us by not linking to the article

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/race-options-eladrin-and-gith

IM SORRY

[Millstone85]

My concern is that gith psionics still follows the model of component-less spells, when the release of the mystic class might open the way to races with psionic disciplines.

But this might just be keeping in line with the MM.

[Dankus Memakus]

My concern is that gith psionics still follows the model of component-less spells, when the release of the mystic class might open the way to races with psionic disciplines.

But this might just be keeping in line with the MM.
I can see that but my main complaint is that githyanki don't get greatswords

[Shadow_in_the_Mist]

I find it distinctly underwhelming in terms of both mechanics and flavor. The 'zerai's +1 AC is incredibly lazy when we could have had the Wisdom equivalent of the Lizardfolk's Natural Armor feature instead, the "Gith Psionics" are both very bland, and the 'yanki's Decadent Mastery makes little sense for a race that is supposed to be highly xenophobic and militarized.

[Naanomi]

Eladrin being 'fey elves' drives me crazy... what are they going to do with chaotic good outsider lore once we get a 'planar manual'?

[Varlon]

The 'zerai's +1 AC is incredibly lazy when we could have had the Wisdom equivalent of the Lizardfolk's Natural Armor feature
Githzerai are designed to be monks. If they were given another way to calculate AC, it wouldn't stack with Unarmored Defense. +1 AC means that they can still start with 16 AC as a monk without starting with a DEX boost.

[Maxilian]

I find it distinctly underwhelming in terms of both mechanics and flavor. The 'zerai's +1 AC is incredibly lazy when we could have had the Wisdom equivalent of the Lizardfolk's Natural Armor feature instead, the "Gith Psionics" are both very bland, and the 'yanki's Decadent Mastery makes little sense for a race that is supposed to be highly xenophobic and militarized.

It makes sense for the sake of the monk class (that's basically part of the whole flavor of the class, so it makes sense they make their abilities work with that class), either way.... i think they are ok, i was expecting the Gith to have some other way to show its "psionic" power, but i guess, even though they went with normal spells, those are spells that could easily be worked out as psionic abilities (maybe make those abilities inmune to counterspell -or any of that sort- for the only sake to make it not feel like magic)

[Sariel Vailo]

For your gith ac just give it the lizardfolk ability
I dont necasarily like the eladrin season thing.

Can we as gitp make better racials i beleive so.shall we begin

[Waterdeep Merch]

I don't mind. The githyanki are a little more powerful than most races, around the half-elf in terms of OP'ness. But their abilities are githyanki enough to work with 5e's paradigm. You can make some good builds out of them that do feel appropriate for their lore.

Githzerai are a little more irksome for me, because Int+1 Wis+2 is just a poor spread. Despite the unarmored boost, this makes them crap at being monks compared to humans, elves, halflings, gnomes, and every other thing that gets a Dex boost. And that's just silly. Their abilities don't much compensate for the bad spread either. Shield once a day is nice, but hardly groundbreaking considering a variant human could've had that at level 1 alongside twice as many cantrips, an extra skill, an extra language, and two selectable stats. Really, the githyanki extra skill/tool and language should've gone to the githzerai instead. They're supposed to be the contemplative negotiators.

Still, githzerai should be played because you think they're cool, not because of statistical power. They have a unique story and view on the multiverse that should always be played up. And they aren't that bad. In this I see them more like the PHB tiefling- people still played them prior to the SCAG power creep for the flavor despite the lackluster stats/abilities. They're still better than dragonborn, too.

Overall, a good first pass. The lack of 'signature' abilities from previous iterations was always inevitable. I might add dex to the 'zerai, and I might nix the extra skill/tool and language from the 'yanki.

[Maxilian]

For your gith ac just give it the lizardfolk ability
I dont necasarily like the eladrin season thing.

Can we as gitp make better racials i beleive so.shall we begin

Well... as we pointed out before, the problem with giving the lizardfolk ability, it doesn't let it work with the class that makes more sense for gith.... Monks...

[Maxilian]

I don't mind. The githyanki are a little more powerful than most races, around the half-elf in terms of OP'ness. But their abilities are githyanki enough to work with 5e's paradigm. You can make some good builds out of them that do feel appropriate for their lore.

Githzerai are a little more irksome for me, because Int+1 Wis+2 is just a poor spread. Despite the unarmored boost, this makes them crap at being monks compared to humans, elves, halflings, gnomes, and every other thing that gets a Dex boost. And that's just silly. Their abilities don't much compensate for the bad spread either. Shield once a day is nice, but hardly groundbreaking considering a variant human could've had that at level 1 alongside twice as many cantrips, an extra skill, an extra language, and two selectable stats. Really, the githyanki extra skill/tool and language should've gone to the githzerai instead. They're supposed to be the contemplative negotiators.

Still, githzerai should be played because you think they're cool, not because of statistical power. They have a unique story and view on the multiverse that should always be played up. And they aren't that bad. In this I see them more like the PHB tiefling- people still played them prior to the SCAG power creep for the flavor despite the lackluster stats/abilities. They're still better than dragonborn, too.

Overall, a good first pass. The lack of 'signature' abilities from previous iterations was always inevitable. I might add dex to the 'zerai, and I might nix the extra skill/tool and language from the 'yanki.

They don't fall that behind, they just fall behind in DEX boost by 1, and they are not loosing any boost to their AC, they even get a better chance to increase their AC than any other Monk (and AC boost are not common in 5E), i don't agree that the extra skills would be better for this ones (IMHO they do need an extra skill, but not the one gave to the other subclass -as it does not work so well for the sake of theme)

also have in mind that they are giving you WIS instead of STR, and WIS will always be better than STR, in every class, even classes that uses STR as it main stat, can work without it (BY THE POWER OF DEX!)

Note: You would have prefered INT and DEX? have in mind that they have always tried to evade giving 2 main stat in the same race (evade, there are others that....... brake this idea -looking at you Helf, Vuman)

[grumbaki]

I like it.

A Githerazi monk with +1 AC? That's damned nice. Dex20, Wis 20, AC21? Yes please. They'd also make nice rangers. Dual wielding or bow use. Dex 20 and light armor gives you AC18. Being a Gith makes it 19. Wis boost for your spells. I can see it.

Finally, a Githerazi druid? Nothing says that they don't get +1 AC while they wildshape. Add on the +2 Wis for casting, and they look like a good pick.

I'd also see Githyanki making nice eldrich knights. +2 Str, +1 Int, an extra cantrip/spells, extra language and tool knowledge? Seems good to me.

[Blas_de_Lezo]

I think they can make great melee wizards. Just put an odd number in your Str score, take the Weapon Master feat, and choose greatsword, longsword, shortsword, scimitar and +1 to Str to be a swordmaster (just a starting 13 in Str will give you Str 16 at 4th level). Grab half plate armor, put your greatsword at your back and choose spells as greenflame blade, booming blade, shield, expeditious retreat (rename it "arcane charge"), mirror image, misty step, enlarge, blink, haste, counterspell and fireball. Choose War Magic arcane tradition form UA (you can increase your AC and concentration checks as reaction, but you can only cast cantrips next round, not a problem at all for you, as you can cast cantrips through your swords). There you have a great gish githyanki, an arcane swordmaster, with high offense and defense without taking any level in fighter. At 8th level grab heavy armor proficiency, resilient (Con) or war caster (depending on your Dex Score).

Example


Gythyanki wizard 8 (War Magic arcane tradition)
Standard point Buy

Str 13+2+1(feat)=16
Dex 14
Con 15+1(feat)=16
Int 13+1=14
Wis 9
Cha 8

CA: 17
Hit Points: 58
Feats: Weapon Master (+1 Str, proficiency in greatsword, longsword, shortsword, scimitar), Resilient (Con)

Have at least half of the following spells per spell level:
Cantrips: Blade Ward, Greenflame Blade, Booming Blade, Shocking Grasp,
1st level: shield, expeditious retreat, longstrider, find familiar, burning hands
2nd level: mirror image, misty step, blur, enlarge, magic weapon, see invisibility, web
3rd level: fireball, counterspell, haste, vampiric touch
4th level: fire shield, dimension door, ice storm, greater invisibility, stoneskin

Give it some fluff to make him real and enjoy.

[Shadow_in_the_Mist]

Eladrin being 'fey elves' drives me crazy... what are they going to do with chaotic good outsider lore once we get a 'planar manual'?
Okay, first of all, seriously, it's bad manners to go into threads that aren't talking about Eladrin at all just to complain about the Eladrin - do it in the Sept UA thread or make your own. Secondly, it's obvious that they'll make the Bralani, Firre, etc into high-level noble faeries (in contrast to "vanilla" Eladrin, which are 0-level nobodies), because that's what they did in the last edition - Eladrin simply don't WORK as "Angels but Chaotic Good" anymore, and good riddance to that idea.


Githzerai are designed to be monks. If they were given another way to calculate AC, it wouldn't stack with Unarmored Defense. +1 AC means that they can still start with 16 AC as a monk without starting with a DEX boost.
I suppose that makes sense. I tend to forget about the specific mechanics of classes.


It makes sense for the sake of the monk class (that's basically part of the whole flavor of the class, so it makes sense they make their abilities work with that class), either way.... i think they are ok, i was expecting the Gith to have some other way to show its "psionic" power, but i guess, even though they went with normal spells, those are spells that could easily be worked out as psionic abilities (maybe make those abilities inmune to counterspell -or any of that sort- for the only sake to make it not feel like magic)
Don't forget, the Mystic isn't official yet. WoTC can't put out "Mystic-inspired" racial psionic powers yet because the Mystic's ruleset won't be formalized until next year at the earliest. There is no literally no way that psionics can be presented in 5e except as reflavored spell-like abilities. Plus, I think that after the disaster that was 3e's psionics system, and the poor reception to 4e's psionics system, WoTC is never going to portray psionics as anything but "magic with different window dressings" again.


Githzerai are a little more irksome for me, because Int+1 Wis+2 is just a poor spread. Despite the unarmored boost, this makes them crap at being monks compared to humans, elves, halflings, gnomes, and every other thing that gets a Dex boost. And that's just silly. Their abilities don't much compensate for the bad spread either. Shield once a day is nice, but hardly groundbreaking considering a variant human could've had that at level 1 alongside twice as many cantrips, an extra skill, an extra language, and two selectable stats. Really, the githyanki extra skill/tool and language should've gone to the githzerai instead. They're supposed to be the contemplative negotiators.
Actually, Wis/Int is kind of flavorable; Githzerai have been a +Int race at least as long as they've been a +Wis race, and in fact traditionally they've valued Zerths - warrior-wizards who double as the clerics of Zerthimon in their atheistic society - at least as much as they've valued monks.

[Waterdeep Merch]

They don't fall that behind, they just fall behind in DEX boost by 1, and they are not loosing any boost to their AC, they even get a better chance to increase their AC than any other Monk (and AC boost are not common in 5E), i don't agree that the extra skills would be better for this ones (IMHO they do need an extra skill, but not the one gave to the other subclass -as it does not work so well for the sake of theme)

also have in mind that they are giving you WIS instead of STR, and WIS will always be better than STR, in every class, even classes that uses STR as it main stat, can work without it (BY THE POWER OF DEX!)

Note: You would have prefered INT and DEX? have in mind that they have always tried to evade giving 2 main stat in the same race (evade, there are others that....... brake this idea -looking at you Helf, Vuman)
They broke it twice in Volo's, too. It's not a hard rule. Plus there's almost no build outside of janky multiclassing that could ever take advantage of having high intelligence and wisdom at the same time*.

The issue with them being monks is that dexterity is so much more important for them than wisdom. They're a melee class, so accuracy and damage is very important. Every combination that gets a bump to both dexterity and wisdom will beat a githzerai monk in accuracy and damage while still matching them in AC. This is assuming anything but rolling for stats, of course- though those bumps are still extremely valuable then, too, since monks want three good stats if they can help it (dex, wis, and con, typically in that order). If you're point buying, a githzerai monk can't cap dex and wisdom until level 19. Anyone else either gets an extra feat or a con bump, both very lucrative here and more useful than +1 AC. Variant humans get both (to be fair though, they're well known for being OP).

*Wisdom saves aren't a bad reason for a higher than normal wisdom score if going wizard. It's better than the reverse at least, since intelligence saves are only common if you've got a mystic player.

[Millstone85]

Naanomi, Shadow, I quoted you in the UA thread.

[dejarnjc]

Githzerai definitely seem best suited to a druid, particularly moon druid.

Monk seems attractive but if you're playing with point buy you'll generally be behind all the other martials in your main attack stat until fairly late in the game which kind of sucks.

Githyanki seem pretty cool though. Not sure what would motivate a lawful evil planeshopping Githyanki to join most adventuring groups.


I think +1 int OR +1 dex would've been best for the base "gith" race but the probably don't want to give +1 dex and +2 str to githyankis.

[grumbaki]

I'd call this good design. If you are going only by doing the most damage per punch for lvls 1-18, then a wood elf monk or a halfling monk is still better. The Gith does best when both races cap out Dex and Wis at 20. Then they have an edge.

But the Gith gives some useful racial spells which make them more unique. And they can hold their own quite well against more 'normal' racial counterparts.

So you have a race which isn't very common. But if you want to play them, and RP a Gith, they do it well. Not an 'auto choice, must have', but 'take it if you want to RP one and don't feel like you are neutering yourself.'

------------


Though I still think that they make great, if not the best, druids.

+2 Wisdom, and +1 AC when wildshaping? What's not to love about that?

[Dankus Memakus]

Githzerai definitely seem best suited to a druid, particularly moon druid.

Monk seems attractive but if you're playing with point buy you'll generally be behind all the other martials in your main attack stat until fairly late in the game which kind of sucks.

Githyanki seem pretty cool though. Not sure what would motivate a lawful evil planeshopping Githyanki to join most adventuring groups.


I think +1 int OR +1 dex would've been best for the base "gith" race but the probably don't want to give +1 dex and +2 str to githyankis.

Renegade githyanki are quite common. Especially hero's since their queen eats their souls so i assume any githyanki who wants power is gonna have to stoop to levels their kind wont usually stoop to and adventure. Also githzeria will make flavorful arcana clerics which kinda fits the old zerths.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Renegade githyanki are quite common. Especially hero's since their queen eats their souls so i assume any githyanki who wants power is gonna have to stoop to levels their kind wont usually stoop to and adventure. Also githzeria will make flavorful arcana clerics which kinda fits the old zerths.

Exactly this. My Githyanki PC is gonna be the scion or former apprentice of a high-level Githyanki who was consumed by their Queen. Revenge is a powerful motivation for the Lawfully-aligned. Still haven't picked a class yet.

[Quoxis]

The issue with them being monks is that dexterity is so much more important for them than wisdom. They're a melee class, so accuracy and damage is very important. Every combination that gets a bump to both dexterity and wisdom will beat a githzerai monk in accuracy and damage while still matching them in AC. This is assuming anything but rolling for stats, of course- though those bumps are still extremely valuable then, too, since monks want three good stats if they can help it (dex, wis, and con, typically in that order). If you're point buying, a githzerai monk can't cap dex and wisdom until level 19. Anyone else either gets an extra feat or a con bump, both very lucrative here and more useful than +1 AC. Variant humans get both (to be fair though, they're well known for being OP).

The issue is that they start out worse in terms of dex, yes, but as i've been told over and over (and over and over and over and so on) that +1 to hit isn't too important, especially as a monk gets many light attacks instead of the rogue's one hard hitting attack. The githzewhatevenisthisname monk gets +1 AC for free, that's what they're losing out on in terms of defensive dex. I feel like it's equally important for most monks to hit AND to have the wis for a stunning strike to work as that's arguably their strongest feature.

[dejarnjc]

The issue is that they start out worse in terms of dex, yes, but as i've been told over and over (and over and over and over and so on) that +1 to hit isn't too important, especially as a monk gets many light attacks instead of the rogue's one hard hitting attack. The githzewhatevenisthisname monk gets +1 AC for free, that's what they're losing out on in terms of defensive dex. I feel like it's equally important for most monks to hit AND to have the wis for a stunning strike to work as that's arguably their strongest feature.

Wouldn't the + DEX be mechanically superior to a +1 AC anyway though? Seeing as how you'd get the +1 AC bonus plus a +1 to hit bonus and a +1 to damage bonus and a bonus to DEX saves and skills etc.

[Azgeroth]

bah! i cant read it!! all the text appears as Chinese characters, numbers and special characters!! what is this madness!?!?!

did i accidentally stumble across some far realm scripture??

any other links to it aside from wizards site??

or ideas on wtf is going on?

[nickl_2000]

bah! i cant read it!! all the text appears as Chinese characters, numbers and special characters!! what is this madness!?!?!

did i accidentally stumble across some far realm scripture??

any other links to it aside from wizards site??

or ideas on wtf is going on?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4Rf5npwkmpLZndVVW85LUJIRTg

I copied it to my Google Drive from the English WotC site, maybe it will work for you.

[strangebloke]

Wouldn't the + DEX be mechanically superior to a +1 AC anyway though? Seeing as how you'd get the +1 AC bonus plus a +1 to hit bonus and a +1 to damage bonus and a bonus to DEX saves and skills etc.

So think it through:

Wood Elf Monk Lvl1:
DEX: 17
WIS: 16
ATTK: +5
DMG: 1d4+3
AC: 16

Wood Elf Monk Lvl5:
DEX: 19
WIS: 16
ATTK: +7
DMG: 1d4+4
AC: 17
DC: 14

Githzerai Monk Lvl1:
DEX: 15
WIS: 17
ATTK: +4
DMG: 1d4+2
AC: 16

Githzerai Monk Lvl5:
DEX: 16
WIS: 18
ATTK: +6
DMG: 1d4+3
AC: 17
DC: 15

At first level +1 to DEX would be better. But by fourth level, your AC and your ki DC are both one higher than the wood elf, while your attack and damage are one behind.

That +1 to damage is much bigger than the +1 to hit, though, you're quite right. 1 to hit is roughly equal to 5% of the damage done in a single hit... which is way less than 1 damage. More like 1/5 of one damage. It seriously barely matters. However, I'd argue that at fourth level a +1 to AC is a way bigger deal than either.

Let's say that at fourth level you're fighting a bunch of goblins. They've got +4 to hit, and you can't really skirmish in such a way that they can't hit you. You're going to be leaning on your AC heavily. With 16 AC a single goblin will deal an expected 2.5 damage. With 17 AC they'll deal 2.2 damage to you a round. When you're fighting a mob of 20+ goblins, that adds up! This is one of the known weaknesses of the monk, that they can't get AC until later levels.

Additionally, against heavier targets, that DC boost is nice.

[NecroDancer]

I feel like the gith should have an ability to sense abberations nearby.

Anti-Mind-Flayer-Beacon for example.

[Waterdeep Merch]

So think it through:

Wood Elf Monk Lvl1:
DEX: 17
WIS: 16
ATTK: +5
DMG: 1d4+3
AC: 16

Wood Elf Monk Lvl5:
DEX: 19
WIS: 16
ATTK: +7
DMG: 1d4+4
AC: 17
DC: 14

Githzerai Monk Lvl1:
DEX: 15
WIS: 17
ATTK: +4
DMG: 1d4+2
AC: 16

Githzerai Monk Lvl5:
DEX: 16
WIS: 18
ATTK: +6
DMG: 1d4+3
AC: 17
DC: 15

At first level +1 to DEX would be better. But by fourth level, your AC and your ki DC are both one higher than the wood elf, while your attack and damage are one behind.

That +1 to damage is much bigger than the +1 to hit, though, you're quite right. 1 to hit is roughly equal to 5% of the damage done in a single hit... which is way less than 1 damage. More like 1/5 of one damage. It seriously barely matters. However, I'd argue that at fourth level a +1 to AC is a way bigger deal than either.

Let's say that at fourth level you're fighting a bunch of goblins. They've got +4 to hit, and you can't really skirmish in such a way that they can't hit you. You're going to be leaning on your AC heavily. With 16 AC a single goblin will deal an expected 2.5 damage. With 17 AC they'll deal 2.2 damage to you a round. When you're fighting a mob of 20+ goblins, that adds up! This is one of the known weaknesses of the monk, that they can't get AC until later levels.

Additionally, against heavier targets, that DC boost is nice.
It's not a straight improvement here, though. You're forgetting that the wood elf would've had an odd Con score, a major tertiary stat, and bumped it at level 4 alongside Dex instead of increasing it all the way to 19. The monk is a d8 hit dice melee skirmisher- they need hp anywhere they can get it. And Con saves are far more frequent and dangerous in those lower levels than Wis saves, especially since monks lack Con proficiency.

The githzerai example might also have an odd Con score, but they won't be fixing that until level 8 at the earliest, either with a half-feat then or a Dex or Wis half feat at 8 and a split increase at 12. At least, that's how I'd do it.

Though I will admit, I completely ignored the fact that you can intentionally take odd ability score attributes. I rarely do that, though this is a clear example of why it's not always a bad idea. It's not all gloom and doom. and you could certainly cap by 16 instead of 19 and get either a Con bump or a feat, on par with other major monks. I can at least agree that they stop being behind by level 4, and can stay competitive past that point fine.