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Tekrow
2017-09-11, 07:05 PM
Hey, for my next campaign I'm looking to make a roguelock, probably Tiefling or Half Elf Drow. UA is allowed for the characters. I'm not exactly looking for the most optimized build, we play with a good mix of RP and serious combat, so it doesn't have to be super optimized. So my questions are:
Is it better to go Rogue first then Warlock? or the other way? I know sneak attack doesn't work with magic, but for example can I have a dagger in one hand and cast spells with the other? Which would be the best patron? I was thinking of the Raven Queen for roleplaying puroposes, but I could go with another patron if it works better. Obviously a dex bladelock. What would be the best rogue archetype? Asassin or arcane trickster?. And what would be the best level spread? The campaign could probably go until really late game. Thanks.

MeeposFire
2017-09-11, 07:21 PM
Hey, for my next campaign I'm looking to make a roguelock, probably Tiefling or Half Elf Drow. UA is allowed for the characters. I'm not exactly looking for the most optimized build, we play with a good mix of RP and serious combat, so it doesn't have to be super optimized. So my questions are:
Is it better to go Rogue first then Warlock? or the other way? I know sneak attack doesn't work with magic, but for example can I have a dagger in one hand and cast spells with the other? Which would be the best patron? I was thinking of the Raven Queen for roleplaying puroposes, but I could go with another patron if it works better. Obviously a dex bladelock. What would be the best rogue archetype? Asassin or arcane trickster?. And what would be the best level spread? The campaign could probably go until really late game. Thanks.

My example sadly does not use a lot of warlock but it is effective and lets you cast and get sneak attack. It is also very effective levels 1-20. Only slight issue is you have to wait for official warlock and rogue levels but if you are really into roguish and warlock fluff you can get a lot for that from back ground and a few well placed choices.

Fighter(EK)7-8/warlock2/rogue10-11

Essentially the fighter levels allow you to cast a cantrip and make a weapon attack. If you want to melee use booming blade, if ranged use eldritch blast, and if both use eldritch blast along with crossbow expert or of course take both and switch weapons when needed.

Warlock 2 gets you your cha mod to your EB for better damage.

Rogue lets you boost your weapon attack and gives you skills and special defenses.

So you use your action to either booming blade or eldritch blast and then follow it up with a bonus action weapon attack that gets your sneak attack damage to it which adds up to some nasty damage.

The progression is really easy to. At first you are a fully functioning fighter which means you are deadly (grab crossbow expert and a hand crossbow and go to town for instance). After you grab your warlock levels you can EB and shoot with a heavy crossbow for some good damage. After that you just keep increasing your damage with sneak attack while adding awesome but not required rogue features. You never have a dead zone where you lack basic competence and you will always be a boon for your party that always gets better as you get more levels.


Only downside for you is if you really want to cast more as even if you go acracne trickster your number of spells and warlock spells will not be that many and will be low level spells. Effective but may not be what you are looking for. On the other hand you will be quite deadly so it may not bother you.

Tekrow
2017-09-11, 07:40 PM
Sounds interesting. One thing I forgot to mention is that I'm going to be using daggers as melee weapons, specifcally a dagger created from the Pact of the Blade.

Chugger
2017-09-11, 08:12 PM
Are you planning on using Devil's Sight and to stab enemies in Darkness a lot?

You can do darkness 1 time per long rest and twice per short rest as the spell, meaning it is available to you often. You can't hex and darkness at the same time (unless someone else in the party casts darkness or unless the racial darkness works in ways I don't understand).

And the invocation DS is up all the time.

If on the other hand you go Var Human fighter 1 and then lock, you can have heavy armor and shield and, oh, polearm mastery - and fight at ac 18 hitting twice per round with your stick (quarterstaff one handed). At lock lvl 5 you'll hit 3 times per round (or you can). Not all DMs allow one handed quarterstaff, but if they do it's something to consider.

It would be 2 x (1d6 (1h quarterstaff) + 3 (str) + 1d6 (hex) ) + 1d4 (the butt attack) + 3 + 1d6. If all attacks hit that's an average damage of 29. And you have ac 18. You can have ac 20 when you buy plate. Do one dip in sorc and get shield - several times a day you'll have ac 25 for a round. And a bit on you get an invo to add ch damage to your attacks.

If you want lower ac and higher damage, use a glaive.

Gignere
2017-09-11, 08:48 PM
If I ever get to play again a Rogue/Lock was going to be my next character.

My build is 17 rogue / 3 lock. It can work with all 3 pacts, from your post you prefer pact of the blade. However if all you are doing is using daggers there is no reason to be pact of the blade other than RP. I see the pact of the blade benefit as allowing your rogue to use a whip.

Start rogue go to level 2, multi into lock for 3 levels. The idea is to abuse darkness and devil's sight, the second invocation can be anything that floats your boat. Generally you will be moving in BB and bonus action hiding. If your target moves without using disengage AoO to sneak attack off turn.

After level 3 lock go all rogue, personally I think arcane trickster is the best for this build, as you will want spells particularly haste, this way you can sneak attack with haste attack and hold your action for off turn BB sneak attack. This is more reliable than hoping opponent doesn't disengage.

Your weakness is dispel magic on your darkness that is why arcane trickster is so good because it gives you more slot in between short rests to cast darkness again.

Mortis_Elrod
2017-09-11, 08:48 PM
I would probably go Raven queen pact of the blade 6/ Rogue (AT or Swash, maybe Scout ) 14

Be a Tabaxi or Drow (OR Changeling) pick up booming blade or green flame blade for early game.

Now even your dagger is doing decent damage. You grab the 3 Blade invos (smite, improved weapon, thirsting) and now you have a +1 dagger, extra attack, and can smite to force prone and do more damage.

You also have a raven buddy that you can ride around in. (Beatrice is a good name for her). Call yourself Corvid, son of the Raven Queen.

You'll be fine either way you start. You could rush for extra attack (5 warlock) or split the levels around.
Rogue 2 > Warlock 3 > Rogue 3 > Warlock 6 > Rogue all the way
-this is if you want to RP getting your power as a warlock. pretty fun for some, too much for others.
Warlock 3 > Rogue 2 > Warlock 4 > Rogue 4 > Warlock 6 > Rogue 14
-shows a progression of a warlock training his body and mind in the rogue ways, then going back to study his magic until he ultimately chooses the rogue lifestyle instead of UNLIMITED POWER.
Warlock 6 > Rogue 14
- straight forward. Get all the warlock goodies then go live a life of backstabbing.

Other combos exist but I don't want to branch out of these to classes since you wanted a 'roguelock'

Biggstick
2017-09-11, 10:36 PM
Hey, for my next campaign I'm looking to make a roguelock, probably Tiefling or Half Elf Drow. UA is allowed for the characters. I'm not exactly looking for the most optimized build, we play with a good mix of RP and serious combat, so it doesn't have to be super optimized. So my questions are:
Is it better to go Rogue first then Warlock? or the other way? I know sneak attack doesn't work with magic, but for example can I have a dagger in one hand and cast spells with the other? Which would be the best patron? I was thinking of the Raven Queen for roleplaying puroposes, but I could go with another patron if it works better. Obviously a dex bladelock. What would be the best rogue archetype? Asassin or arcane trickster?. And what would be the best level spread? The campaign could probably go until really late game. Thanks.

Going Rogue first will be ideal. Better saving throws, and the ability to have up to 4 saving throw proficiencies (we're grabbing Resilient Con or Lucky, your choice really), skills, and an easier jump RP-wise into being a Warlock imo.

Sneak Attack doesn't work with magic like Eldritch Blast, but it works just fine with BB/GFB. Also, yes, you can cast if you have a dagger in one hand and a spell focus in the other.

There is no "best" archetype for Rogue, or Warlock. This is especially true if you're multiclassing, as each archetype or patron brings different benefits that accomplish different goals. What you need to decide is what kind of things do you want your Rogue xx / Warlock xx to be able to do?

In regards to what I put in bold, the only character I've ever gotten to level 20 was a Halfling Arcane Trickster 15 // Fiendlock 5. My biggest problem was being able to actually do damage to an enemy. Getting close to an enemy at that level was practically suicidal, as I only had Shield (spell), Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, and +2 Studded Leather (I can't remember if it was +2 or 3, either way, I had 19-20 AC and was getting hit unless I used my reaction on the Shield spell, and even then!). My primary means of fighting for many levels was Darkness/Devil's Sight. The problem with that strategy is eventually creatures are going to be able to see through the Darkness due to their vision capabilities.

Now, with a bit of meta-gaming, I knew creatures usually couldn't "true-see" past 120'. The problem, I was a Halfling, meaning my weapon selection was limited to non-heavy weapons. I also ended up taking Sharpshooter as my final feat for a character who had spent almost the majority of his career in melee range so that I could actually get in useful hits against creatures at the furthest end of the game.

What I'm getting at, is if you're really building the Rogue-Lock for end game, you should look to be using a Longbow with the Sharpshooter feat at the end. You won't be tough enough to run up in to melee range. All your Warlock tricks will be for naught in most situations. What I ended up doing with my Warlock slots (and the occasional AT slot) was casting the Invisibility spell and the Fly spell.

If I had to do it over again, I would go Rogue for the first three, five, or seven levels, and then pick up two-three levels of Warlock. The reason for the variation is really more so for RP in the timing of a making a Pact. If RP is thrown to the side, I'd grab three Warlock levels at PC levels four, five, and six and then go back to Rogue. I'd make a Pact with the most appropriate patron in that DM's world, as our Patron on this character only really matters regarding RP. If my race can't see in the dark, I'd grab Devil's Sight. My race would have dark vision though, and I'd grab Mask of Many Faces along with another flavor Invocation. I'd grab BB, and a flavor cantrip like Prestidigiation or Mage Hand. I'd grab Hex, Invisibility, Spider Climb, and whatever interesting level 1 Warlock spell sounds like fun. As for Pact choice, I would probably end up going Pact of the Chain or Pact of the Blade. I'd go Pact of the Chain if I went with a Fiendish Pact, as an invisible Imp is a pretty powerful Familiar that can make the rest of your mid-game very very easy. If I didn't go Pact of the Fiend, I'd go Pact of the Blade for a magic weapon that I can summon to me (or simply create if I don't yet have one). If I went Pact of the Chain, I'd take the corresponding Invocation, as sight/speaking through an invisible scout makes for an easy scout that can make it through most dungeons without getting "prevented access" that happens to users of Arcane Eye (just my experience).

For Expertise choices, I'd easily go with Persuasion and Stealth for my level 1 choices. For my level 6 choices (which come at character level 8 or 9 depending on if you went 2-3 levels of Warlock), I'd go with Perception and whatever flavor seems to be lacking in the party.

Overall, my level spread on this Rogue/Warlock would go something like this:
Rogue: 1-3 (Swashbuckler)
Warlock: 4-6 (Fiend, Pact of the Chain)
Rogue 7-18 (Slippery Mind)
For levels 19 and 20, it'd be a choice as to if I want 9d6 Sneak Attack Dice or 3rd level Warlock spells. I'd probably make the same choice for Warlock spells as I did last time, as Fly is a powerful spell.

TLDR; Contributing on the damage side of things in the late game as a Rogue/Warlock is difficult. Your best bet is to use a Longbow, Sharpshooter (simply for the increased distance), the Hide Cunning Action, and generally remaining unseen. For the early and mid game, Playing like a standard Rogue with BB or GFB will carry your damage well enough. Out of combat you'll still be an effective Rogue as long as you take Expertise in Stealth.
I wish you the best with this multiclass! It's a ton of fun to play, the classes mix really well together, and roleplaying any class that is making a "small" Pact with any Patron is always great fun. ^_^

MeeposFire
2017-09-11, 10:52 PM
Better saving throws? Not so sure about that. Dex saves are more common than wisdom saves but wisdom saves tend to be more punishing. Cha saves are more common than int saves and both can be debilitating depending on the effect in question. Kind of a wash really though if you pick up evasion things get interesting where a rogue first is more likely to take no damage but a warlock first essentially is like getting the advantage of what you want in having prof in saving throws (making the save more often which evasion most of the time in failure is like everybody else's success) without using one of your prof on that saving throw. So a warlock first good saves in wisdom,charisma, and get at the very least the same effect on most dex saves as if you passed the save on anyone without evasion with a lesser chance of no damage, and still have an option to use a feat to gain an additional save. A rogue first gets int saves, dex saves have a higher chance of no damage and of course even if you fail you take half damage, and you have access to a feat to get another save.

Rogue first then has a higher chance of no damage while the warlock first can get essentially wider coverage with a lesser chance at no damage.


The math changes of course if you take rogue up to level 14 because then you get wisdom prof regardless.

Biggstick
2017-09-11, 11:38 PM
-Snip-
The math changes of course if you take rogue up to level 14 because then you get wisdom prof regardless.

And that's the plan. Take Rogue up to at least level 15. Grab Resilient Con. Have four different saving throw proficiencies at character level 15-18 depending on how you've leveled the multiclass.

Staying out of range of having to make Wisdom saves is a good strategy as well.

Tekrow
2017-09-12, 07:40 AM
Thank you guys for all your responses.

Going Rogue first will be ideal. Better saving throws, and the ability to have up to 4 saving throw proficiencies (we're grabbing Resilient Con or Lucky, your choice really), skills, and an easier jump RP-wise into being a Warlock imo.

Sneak Attack doesn't work with magic like Eldritch Blast, but it works just fine with BB/GFB. Also, yes, you can cast if you have a dagger in one hand and a spell focus in the other.

There is no "best" archetype for Rogue, or Warlock. This is especially true if you're multiclassing, as each archetype or patron brings different benefits that accomplish different goals. What you need to decide is what kind of things do you want your Rogue xx / Warlock xx to be able to do?

In regards to what I put in bold, the only character I've ever gotten to level 20 was a Halfling Arcane Trickster 15 // Fiendlock 5. My biggest problem was being able to actually do damage to an enemy. Getting close to an enemy at that level was practically suicidal, as I only had Shield (spell), Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, and +2 Studded Leather (I can't remember if it was +2 or 3, either way, I had 19-20 AC and was getting hit unless I used my reaction on the Shield spell, and even then!). My primary means of fighting for many levels was Darkness/Devil's Sight. The problem with that strategy is eventually creatures are going to be able to see through the Darkness due to their vision capabilities.

Now, with a bit of meta-gaming, I knew creatures usually couldn't "true-see" past 120'. The problem, I was a Halfling, meaning my weapon selection was limited to non-heavy weapons. I also ended up taking Sharpshooter as my final feat for a character who had spent almost the majority of his career in melee range so that I could actually get in useful hits against creatures at the furthest end of the game.

What I'm getting at, is if you're really building the Rogue-Lock for end game, you should look to be using a Longbow with the Sharpshooter feat at the end. You won't be tough enough to run up in to melee range. All your Warlock tricks will be for naught in most situations. What I ended up doing with my Warlock slots (and the occasional AT slot) was casting the Invisibility spell and the Fly spell.

If I had to do it over again, I would go Rogue for the first three, five, or seven levels, and then pick up two-three levels of Warlock. The reason for the variation is really more so for RP in the timing of a making a Pact. If RP is thrown to the side, I'd grab three Warlock levels at PC levels four, five, and six and then go back to Rogue. I'd make a Pact with the most appropriate patron in that DM's world, as our Patron on this character only really matters regarding RP. If my race can't see in the dark, I'd grab Devil's Sight. My race would have dark vision though, and I'd grab Mask of Many Faces along with another flavor Invocation. I'd grab BB, and a flavor cantrip like Prestidigiation or Mage Hand. I'd grab Hex, Invisibility, Spider Climb, and whatever interesting level 1 Warlock spell sounds like fun. As for Pact choice, I would probably end up going Pact of the Chain or Pact of the Blade. I'd go Pact of the Chain if I went with a Fiendish Pact, as an invisible Imp is a pretty powerful Familiar that can make the rest of your mid-game very very easy. If I didn't go Pact of the Fiend, I'd go Pact of the Blade for a magic weapon that I can summon to me (or simply create if I don't yet have one). If I went Pact of the Chain, I'd take the corresponding Invocation, as sight/speaking through an invisible scout makes for an easy scout that can make it through most dungeons without getting "prevented access" that happens to users of Arcane Eye (just my experience).

For Expertise choices, I'd easily go with Persuasion and Stealth for my level 1 choices. For my level 6 choices (which come at character level 8 or 9 depending on if you went 2-3 levels of Warlock), I'd go with Perception and whatever flavor seems to be lacking in the party.

Overall, my level spread on this Rogue/Warlock would go something like this:
Rogue: 1-3 (Swashbuckler)
Warlock: 4-6 (Fiend, Pact of the Chain)
Rogue 7-18 (Slippery Mind)
For levels 19 and 20, it'd be a choice as to if I want 9d6 Sneak Attack Dice or 3rd level Warlock spells. I'd probably make the same choice for Warlock spells as I did last time, as Fly is a powerful spell.

TLDR; Contributing on the damage side of things in the late game as a Rogue/Warlock is difficult. Your best bet is to use a Longbow, Sharpshooter (simply for the increased distance), the Hide Cunning Action, and generally remaining unseen. For the early and mid game, Playing like a standard Rogue with BB or GFB will carry your damage well enough. Out of combat you'll still be an effective Rogue as long as you take Expertise in Stealth.
I wish you the best with this multiclass! It's a ton of fun to play, the classes mix really well together, and roleplaying any class that is making a "small" Pact with any Patron is always great fun. ^_^

Okay you haver certainly given me a lot of think about. If you don't mind, I would like to ask you a few more questions. You tell me that it's hard as a melee roguelock to contribute to the damage late game. Is it easier for a ranged roguelock? But, if I'm using a longbow, I can cast spells, right? Now, this late game problem to do damage, does it happens to pure Warlocks or Rogues?

Biggstick
2017-09-12, 10:24 AM
Okay you haver certainly given me a lot of think about. If you don't mind, I would like to ask you a few more questions. You tell me that it's hard as a melee roguelock to contribute to the damage late game. Is it easier for a ranged roguelock? But, if I'm using a longbow, I can cast spells, right? Now, this late game problem to do damage, does it happens to pure Warlocks or Rogues?

It is much easier for a Rogue/Warlock to contribute damage in the late game as a ranged character compared to as a melee character. Most of the creatures you're facing at 20th are either massively homebrewed, are the very strongest of creatures in the books, or you're facing a massive amount of creatures and will have trouble gaining Sneak Attack. The reason I would say that it's easier to deal damage as a late game Rogue/Warlock at range is that you can use your Bonus Action to Hide, potentially netting you Advantage on your attack roll against the target because you're an unseen attacker.

If you're using a Longbow, you can indeed still cast spells. You would simply hold the Longbow in one hand, touch or grab the spell focus, cast the spell, and then release the spell focus to go back to your Longbow.

I can't really speak to late game Warlocks regarding their damage, but I would assume they're going to be fine in the late game due to the Invocation Agonizing Blast, Eldritch Blast, and maxed out Charisma. Throw a Hex on top of that and a Warlock's average late game damage is: 4d10 + 4d6 + 20 (average 42 force damage and 14 necrotic damage if all the attacks hit).

Late game Rogues are ones who potentially suffer on damage in the late game because they're so dependent on qualifying for Sneak Attack. Without a reliable ally in melee range of an opponent, the easiest way to constantly gain advantage at range is through the Help action from another (familiars are great for this, but are also tough to depend on in the mid-late game as they're very fragile) or through the Cunning Action Hide.

DivisibleByZero
2017-09-12, 10:42 AM
Cunning Action Disengage if you want to melee as an high level rogue. Or sit there and Uncanny dodge the big attack. Or Shield yourself. Rogues in general, and spellcasting Rogues especially, have plenty of options to reduce or eliminate damage if they so choose.

Mortis_Elrod
2017-09-12, 11:40 AM
its important to note that you can still go pact of the blade with longbow. and picking up improved pact weapon invocation has your pact weapon as your spell focus.

tieren
2017-09-12, 12:09 PM
Was anyone else hoping this thread was about a new type of manacles for securing captured rogues?

DivisibleByZero
2017-09-12, 12:55 PM
Was anyone else hoping this thread was about a new type of manacles for securing captured rogues?

I doubt it. Nope. Just you.

Tekrow
2017-09-12, 07:52 PM
It is much easier for a Rogue/Warlock to contribute damage in the late game as a ranged character compared to as a melee character. Most of the creatures you're facing at 20th are either massively homebrewed, are the very strongest of creatures in the books, or you're facing a massive amount of creatures and will have trouble gaining Sneak Attack. The reason I would say that it's easier to deal damage as a late game Rogue/Warlock at range is that you can use your Bonus Action to Hide, potentially netting you Advantage on your attack roll against the target because you're an unseen attacker.

If you're using a Longbow, you can indeed still cast spells. You would simply hold the Longbow in one hand, touch or grab the spell focus, cast the spell, and then release the spell focus to go back to your Longbow.

I can't really speak to late game Warlocks regarding their damage, but I would assume they're going to be fine in the late game due to the Invocation Agonizing Blast, Eldritch Blast, and maxed out Charisma. Throw a Hex on top of that and a Warlock's average late game damage is: 4d10 + 4d6 + 20 (average 42 force damage and 14 necrotic damage if all the attacks hit).

Late game Rogues are ones who potentially suffer on damage in the late game because they're so dependent on qualifying for Sneak Attack. Without a reliable ally in melee range of an opponent, the easiest way to constantly gain advantage at range is through the Help action from another (familiars are great for this, but are also tough to depend on in the mid-late game as they're very fragile) or through the Cunning Action Hide.

Well, thanks for your replies. I think I'm gonna go a ranged roguelock. In this particular case, the best patron would be the Archfey right? Since it's the only one that allows me to make a longbow as a pact weapon so I can get two attacks per turn with the invocation. Maybe I could convince my DM to let me use that Invocation with the Raven Queen and I could use the crow to Help me get advantage on attacks. What do you think?

Biggstick
2017-09-12, 08:17 PM
Well, thanks for your replies. I think I'm gonna go a ranged roguelock. In this particular case, the best patron would be the Archfey right? Since it's the only one that allows me to make a longbow as a pact weapon so I can get two attacks per turn with the invocation. Maybe I could convince my DM to let me use that Invocation with the Raven Queen and I could use the crow to Help me get advantage on attacks. What do you think?

I haven't actually looked at most of the UA stuff as the DM's I play under typically don't allow UA. If the Archfey Patron allows you to create a Longbow and make two attacks, that sounds like a good fit. The question to ask yourself though, is does the Invocation, Pact choice, and Patron choice match the RP you're looking for?

You're now treading into the "Ask your DM" territory regarding what can and can't be mixed together regarding Patron, Pact, and Invocation choices though. I'd bring these questions to the DM.

Tekrow
2017-09-12, 08:20 PM
I haven't actually looked at most of the UA stuff as the DM's I play under typically don't allow UA. If the Archfey Patron allows you to create a Longbow and make two attacks, that sounds like a good fit. The question to ask yourself though, is does the Invocation, Pact choice, and Patron choice match the RP you're looking for?

You're now treading into the "Ask your DM" territory regarding what can and can't be mixed together regarding Patron, Pact, and Invocation choices though. I'd bring these questions to the DM.

Yeah, the archfey was one of the Patrons I had in mind from a RP perspective. I think I found a winning combination. Thanks for your help.

CaptainSarathai
2017-09-12, 09:18 PM
Here's a slightly different take on strategy:

1. Source of Advantage for Rogue
Hardly matters, firstly. You can go Swashbuckler and get it when you're 1v1. You can get it from basic Rogue for being 2v1 with a friend. You can get it from any source of natural advantage. Or you can manufacture your own with Darkness and Devil's Sight.
So, as a melee character, getting advantage at any level won't be horrifically difficult.

2. About that damage...
So this is a tactical divergence between myself and the others here. Rogue gives you the ability to run a Reaction for Half Damage. Warlock gives you access to a spell that lets you gain TempHP and dole out damage when hit, without a roll or save involved at all. So you're going to mix Armor of Agathys and combining it with Uncanny Dodge.

3. That Action Economy Though: AKA "Do I Dual Wield?"
Alright, so the Rogue has a huge value from their Bonus Action. Hex is also a Bonus Action, and a great source of damage if you're not using Darkness. So you need to decide if you want to dual wield daggers or not. I'm going to lean very heavily towards no, it's a suboptimal choice. That doesn't mean "don't do it," it just means that you're gonna pay for it in outbound damage. Considering you're already choosing to roll 2d4 rather than 2d6 or 1d8... you're gonna be hurting quite a bit.
One way to get around this would be to run Swashbuckler as your Rogue type, so that you can still (sort of) Disengage after making an attack.
Another option would be to grab the Mobile feat, which is essentially the same thing.
The ability to hit and step away, however, can be potentially massive on a spellcaster since you can get Booming Blade. Hit them, step away, and then if they try to follow you they get zapped. The issue is that Booming Blade doesn't count as an attack, and doesn't trigger the off-hand jab. It's also pinning all of your hopes on a single hit.
---

I think that a lot of question is going to come down to where the campaign ends. If you're able to go all the way up to 20, then things get different. Get to Warlock 12, and things change. So you need to decide how far you can potentially go in each class before you decide how to proceed.

Initial Thought:

Sorcerer 4, Rogue 5, Lock 11
This is going to net you Quicken to hit 2x with Booming Blade. The goal isn't to necessarily do that, but it's in the wheelhouse. Stepping away after BB doesn't help at all, if you didn't hit with it. It also has added utility with Quicken, to attack 2 targets and then step away with your Swashbuckler ability. That covers your Bonus action. Your reaction then becomes the Uncanny Dodge, working alongside Armor of Agathys. You're taking the levels of Warlock so that you can get higher and higher renewing spell slots, and get access to more and more Invocations.

Attacking with Booming Blade is going to get you
3d8 +3d6 +d6(Hex) = 27.5 +Weapon +Str/Dex +Secondary
You can potentially do this 2x per turn for a total of 55dam plus everything else (estimate 2x another 9 for Rapier/Dex and 13.5 for secondary)

The alternative is going with the Bladelock for extra attack, going the rest in Rogue, maxing out at
8d6 +d6(Hex) = 31.5 + Weapon +Str/Dex
You can only do this once, and another 7 +2Weapon +Str/Dex for a total of 38.5 plus everything else (estimate another 20.5 for Shortsword/Dex)

Make sense?

bid
2017-09-12, 10:04 PM
This is going to net you Quicken to hit 2x with Booming Blade.
Twin is half the cost for the same result.

Malifice
2017-09-13, 12:34 AM
Swashbuckler/ Bladelock works good.

Mortis_Elrod
2017-09-13, 01:21 AM
Yeah, the archfey was one of the Patrons I had in mind from a RP perspective. I think I found a winning combination. Thanks for your help.

You could also find a magic bow, or have a friend cast magic weapon on it at the same time you do the pact of the blade ritual, giving you a longbow for pact weapon. You could do this yourself as a level 3 hexblade. Also note that the Revised Class Options UA (https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/June5UA_RevisedClassOptv1.pdf) has an updated list of the new invocations that were shone in the warlock and wizard UA.

CaptainSarathai
2017-09-13, 05:09 PM
Twin is half the cost for the same result.

Twin has to be 2 separate targets. Can't hit the same guy twice.
Also worth pointing out that while I didn't mention it in my thread, there's also the option of using Green Flame Blade, which, with a Draconic Sorcerer would also get +Cha to damage; but you cannot Twin GFB, because it technically has multi-targeting.



Twinned Spell

When you cast a spell that targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if the spell is a cantrip)