Attack / Skills Class Combo

[Allstar]

Got an upcoming weekend game in an illegal magic setting (ie if you use magic you are hunted.) Magic items are at a premium so I can't rely on them for much functionality. I'm fine with picking the item(s), looking for ideas on classes.

Criterion:

Any book, no homebrew.
10 Levels
Base races only.
No Factotum; we already have one!
Start with 1-2 wild classes (like Barbarian, Ranger, Wilderness Rogue etc)
Finish with 1-2+ urban classes (Fighter, Martial Rogue etc.)
I'd like to ignore magic (because almost everyone else doesn't.)
Lots of skill points, lots of class skills
Strong Combat; deep TWF or big hard attacks


I imagine it's a combination of classes that get lots of feats at low levels and steering them into combat choices.

Suggestions?

[Papa_Smurf]

What kind of tactics, weapons, and/or career path are you wanting to do or have?

[ATHATH]

For somebody else in your group to use: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?325933-Easy-Bake-Wizard-Handbook

Why not just refluff a class into being a "wild" or "urban" (or both) class?

[Fliggl]

Maybe something like Barbarian4/Ninja6 ?

Feats you want: Power Attack, Leap Attack

Barbarian for martial weapon proficiency and either pounce or fast movement. Both are good in this build

Ninja for sudden strike and especially for great leap (at level 4)

Grab a bastard sword and power attack for x4 with a 10ft jump.

The other feats can be something like improved critical or raptor school


When you can grab a ring of evasion, 3 levels of thief acrobat (CAdv) let you charge over difficult terrain...

This build will be MAD - you need high str, dex, con and wis. Maybe even int.
But it can be a good damage dealer which doesn't relay on magic (and is not the standard shocktrooper barbarian)

[Necroticplague]

You have a limit in races, what about template use? Some good beatstick templates can provide enough bonuses to compensate for lack of items. Like half Minotaur half ogre feral mineralized
warrior loth touched Human Lion Spirit Totem Wolf Totem Barbarian 2/Rogue 2/Dungeoncrasher Fighter 1.

[zlefin]

I'd recommend putting in some warblade levels at some points; warblade's int focus should go well with your plan to have lots of skill points and good fighting ability.

[Allstar]

Why not just refluff a class into being a "wild" or "urban" (or both) class?
We prefer doing 99% by the book. If we ever swap something out it would be D&D Fighter for Pathfinder Fighter (boring example, we'd do it for something interesting.)


For somebody else in your group to use: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?325933-Easy-Bake-Wizard-Handbook
Nice, I might use that for another campaign. I found Alacritous Cogitation for a character a while back and thought it rather useful on a level 2 slot, then found Uncanny Forethought and regretted having taken it instead of Arcane Mastery. (Didn't find it until much later as I tend to avoid the Exemplars of Evil, Libre Mortis, Book of Vile Darkness books because I've never done an evil campaign! :P All of those other little bits will be a lot of use. Thanks muchly.


You have a limit in races, what about template use? Some good beatstick templates can provide enough bonuses to compensate for lack of items. Like half Minotaur half ogre feral mineralized
warrior loth touched Human Lion Spirit Totem Wolf Totem Barbarian 2/Rogue 2/Dungeoncrasher Fighter 1.
Template would most likely be fine IF they are related to core races and merely augmentations like 'desert' or 'forest' YKWIM. I'd probably get scowled at for a Lion Spirit with a Wolf Totem, both would have to be Lion or Wolf.


I'd recommend putting in some warblade levels at some points; warblade's int focus should go well with your plan to have lots of skill points and good fighting ability.
It's a good call, but I'd need to multi-class for more class skills so the Maneuver progression wouldn't get boosted any more.


What kind of tactics, weapons, and/or career path are you wanting to do or have?
Due political happenings in the major city the countryside is being disrupted and they've sent their best (wo)man to find out what is going on. A war-like event has happened and thus extensive mining and lumbering would be happening near the city. Hence wild first, urban last.


Maybe something like Barbarian4/Ninja6 ?

Feats you want: Power Attack, Leap Attack

Barbarian for martial weapon proficiency and either pounce or fast movement. Both are good in this build

Ninja for sudden strike and especially for great leap (at level 4)

Grab a bastard sword and power attack for x4 with a 10ft jump.

The other feats can be something like improved critical or raptor school

Interesting combination, I could backstory that transition. Is a bit limited on class skills. x4 damage on attack sounds strong.


This build will be MAD - you need high str, dex, con and wis. Maybe even int.
But it can be a good damage dealer which doesn't relay on magic (and is not the standard shocktrooper barbarian)
I can reduce dependence on INT a bit by taking Dwarf with Ancestral Knowledge (RoS) so my per level skill points are WIS based.


Any other ideas?

[AnimeTheCat]

If you're looking to use two weapon fighting, I would reccommend something liiiiike...

Barbarian 2 - Use the Spirit Lion Totem for pounce and/or Whirling Frenzy variant of Rage.
Rogue 8 - Skills and sneak attack.

This will get you a lot of attacks on a charge (+ sneak attack damage if flanking) as well as additional attacks when your fighting (hopefully while flanking). At level 3, you can get 3 attacks (each at a -4) but that's made up for by the +4 strength and the +2 flanking bonus if you qualify. This means that if you hit, at level 3, you can deal your weapon damage+sneak attack 3 times which is pretty nice and doesn't rely on magic. Since you're counting on extra dice for damage, you could take weapon finesse and not focus on strength at all (minimum 10).

Another option could be to open as a wilderness rogue and blend into a martial adept class like warblade or swordsage, I personally don't enjoy the ToB classes, but they have their uses.

Two Handed weapon I would recommend taking Barbarian again with the whirling frenzy variant again, extra attacks are always great. Best part is that you don't need spirit lion totem to get the extra attack after a charge and the charge bonus offsets the attack penalty from the frenzied attack. After that, go in to the feat progression rogue or wilderness rogue if you would like (I'm not sure what skills you want so this is up to you) and then finish with some kind of martial adept class for a few strong maneuvers/stances. The only feat you really need is Power Attack, but other feats like leap attack, shock trooper, etc help too.

At whatever point possible, your best armor will be mithral heavy or medium armor (plate or breastplate) if you can get it, otherwise you're pretty good i would think.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Scout 4/(any initiator) 6 would be solid. Taking four levels of other classes first lets you jump straight to 2nd level maneuvers, and Skirmish goes well with standard-action maneuvers. Grab Able Learner to keep your class skills up.

[Thurbane]

Human Ranger 2/Warblade 6/Urban Soul 2

Load up on Tiger Claw maneuvers to leverage off TWF. You'll have an Initiator level of 8 by ECL 10.

Able Learner as a first level feat. Nymph's Kiss if you can wrangle it.

Urban Soul is a little...meh, but it definitely fits the bill of urban based skillmonkey.

One of the more effective ways to use TWF is with a two-handed weapon (falchion, greatsword) + armor spikes. You still get the goodies for Power Attack with your two hander.

With Able Learner, you'll be able to have max-ranks in the following skills:


Balance
Climb
Concentration
Craft
Diplomacy
Escape Artist
Gather Information
Handle Animal
Heal
Hide
Intimidate
Jump
Knowledge (architecture and engineering)
Knowledge (dungeoneering)
Knowledge (geography)
Knowledge (history)
Knowledge (local)
Knowledge (nature)
Listen
Martial Lore
Move Silently
Profession
Ride
Search
Speak Language
Spot
Survival
Swim
Tumble
Use Rope

[Zaq]

Is there anything wrong with going just pure Rogue (or at least primary Rogue)? They're hard to beat in the skills game, and if SA doesn't qualify as a "big attack," then one of us has our definitions wonky. Maybe dip in Crusader or Warblade for a little extra survivability and BAB, but if it's damage you want, SA is always a good starting point. Add in Craven if possible.

Alternatively, is incarnum too "magical"? Totemist is an excellent face-eater, and while Incarnate makes the better skillmonkey, Totemist still has more skill-boosting melds than are always immediately apparent.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Is there anything wrong with going just pure Rogue (or at least primary Rogue)? They're hard to beat in the skills game, and if SA doesn't qualify as a "big attack," then one of us has our definitions wonky. Maybe dip in Crusader or Warblade for a little extra survivability and BAB, but if it's damage you want, SA is always a good starting point. Add in Craven if possible.

Alternatively, is incarnum too "magical"? Totemist is an excellent face-eater, and while Incarnate makes the better skillmonkey, Totemist still has more skill-boosting melds than are always immediately apparent.
Or better yet, a combination of both. Totemist 2/Incarnate 4/Ironsoul Forgemaster 10 has a ton of combat and noncombat potential.

[Nifft]

I feel like you could do the whole Wild -> Urban thing just within Warblade.

Just vary the maneuvers you take to suit the feel of that time-frame.

Early "Wild" Levels:
- Iron Heart
- Tiger Claw
savagery + brute force

Later "Urban" Levels:
- Diamond Mind
- White Raven
concentration + coordination


You can add more classes as you wish, but you could also do the whole transition within Warblade.

[Thurbane]

Straight Warblade with Able Learner and Apprentice (Woodsman) at 1st level. Cram City Slicker in there is you can have a flaw.

Bam: effective melee type with urban and rural aspects.