Trying to choose for Lore Bard Magical Secrets, too many options

[Flashkannon]

Right, so I play a Lore Bard, newly at level 6. I'm basically the support caster/healer of the group. I keep everyone in working order, give people advantage vs the boss, mend people's snapped bowstrings, that kind of thing. I've already got one of my Magical Secrets spells locked down, as I needed to choose Revivify right away because our wizard picked up a Vulnerability to fire and got hit with a fire spell, killing him instantly. My DM was merciful though, and allowed me to take more time to think about my other choice.

I'm leaning towards Mass Healing Word, but there are really way too many spells to choose from.

I also have a Mac-Fuirmidh Sitern and I got a couple extra spells from Magic Initiate (Warlock) and a story event, so I have a few more spells than would the average bard.


Cantrips:
Minor Illusion
Mending
Vicious Mockery
Prestidigitation
Eldrich Blast

1st Level:
Faerie Fire
Healing Word
Hellish Rebuke
Cure Wounds
Protection from Evil and Good
Fog Cloud

2nd Level:
Lesser Restoration
Suggestion
Invisibility
Shatter
Magic Mouth
Levitate
Barkskin
Enhance Ability

3rd Level:
Dispel Magic
Fly
Revivify


My Party Members:
-A Swashbuckler Rogue, uses two rapiers
-A Barbarian with a Pirate-themed Homebrew Subclass (leadership & guns), uses a greataxe and also a gun now
-A Ranger with a Pirate-themed Homebrew Subclass (guns and treasure), uses guns and a bow
-A Wizard with a Pirate-themed Homebrew Subclass (voodoo, a couple extra spells)


Cantrips:
Unknown

1st Level:
Burning Hands
Comprehend Languages
Detect Magic
Disguise Self
False Life
Feather Fall
Fog Cloud
Jump
Magic Missile
Shield
Silent Image
Thunder Wave
Unseen Servant
Illusionary Script
Silent Image

2nd Level:
Alter Self
Detect Thoughts
Invisibility
Misty Step
Shatter
Flaming Sphere
Knock
Suggestion
Gust of Wind
Silence
Mirror Image

3rd Level:
Counterspell
Fireball
Dispel Magic
Haste
Leomund's Tiny hut
Fly
Waterbreathing

[dnd2016]

Well if you're you're not going to take hypnotic pattern,Slow is a great spell. Almost every melee foe will have two attacks, And 50% chance to stop a spell caster.

[Arenabait]

Counterspell, Counterspell COUNTERSPELL

You would not believe how good this is, and how many of your DM's evil plans it will ruin.

The DM - "The evil wizard casts Meteor Storm for 20d6 fire damage and 20d6 bludgeoning damage! BWAHAHAHHAHA!"

You - "No."

TL;DR: If someone casts a spell you really don't want going off, counterspell is a great choice.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Animate Dead
Find Steed
Elemental weapon
conjure barrage
Lightning Arrow
cordon of arrows
lightning arrow
Misty Step
Call Lightning

Look for an other exclusive or close to exclusive spells. or Animate Dead. Animate Dead is pretty good.

[Flashkannon]

Counterspell, Counterspell COUNTERSPELL

You would not believe how good this is, and how many of your DM's evil plans it will ruin.
And that's why our wizard has Counterspell, as noted above. Plus, we're in kind of a low-magic, low caster-density campaign. More call for Dispel Magic than Counterspell thus far. I've actually been called on to use Dispel Magic once! As opposed to the 0 enemy spellcasters we've encountered thus far.


Animate Dead
Find Steed
Elemental weapon
conjure barrage
Lightning Arrow
cordon of arrows
lightning arrow
Misty Step
Call Lightning

Look for an other exclusive or close to exclusive spells. or Animate Dead. Animate Dead is pretty good.
Those'd be better suggestions if my group weren't a bunch of Goodie Goodies (whom I am already on thin ice with after stealing one (1) artifact), if we didn't already have a blast caster (the wizard) or if we didn't own a very fast frigate. Misty Step would be an okay choice but I haven't really been hurting in the mobility department so far. I play a Tabaxi so I have a burst of speed if I really need it.


Well if you're you're not going to take hypnotic pattern,Slow is a great spell. Almost every melee foe will have two attacks, And 50% chance to stop a spell caster.
You make a good case; I think I'll swap out a regular bard spell to get Hypnotic Pattern. As for Slow... I'll consider it. We tend to either run into a bunch of 1-attack mobs or a big boss, so there isn't as much use for it as one might think, especially in the absence of spellcasters.

[Aaron Underhand]

Since you're the healer you might consider Mass Healing Word, or Aura of Vitality

[Flashkannon]

Since you're the healer you might consider Mass Healing Word, or Aura of Vitality
Well, Mass Healing Word is, as noted in my post, my current frontrunner. Aura of Vitality's definitely a strong possibility, but I often find my concentration slot taken up by Faerie Fire in battle. Plus, as a Bard, I'm often using my Bonus Action to give the barbarian a hit of Bardic Inspiration.

Honestly the only reason Mass Healing Word isn't a shoo-in is because I do my job relatively well, and it has never yet occurred that two party members were ever down at the same time. Of course it could come in handy in a ship battle our crew was losing bad, but... I'm not really sold on the whole idea, especially considering the range limit of 60 feet, which is surprisingly hampering for ship battles.

[Protato]

I always go for Eldritch Blast myself, if you've got nothing better to do in your turn then why not get in a few attacks?

[FabulousFizban]

conjure animals. Yes conjure animals. Then summon 8 raven swarms.

[Flashkannon]

I always go for Eldritch Blast myself, if you've got nothing better to do in your turn then why not get in a few attacks?
Er, I already have Eldritch Blast (although I spelled it wrong on my spell list in the OP, to my chagrin). I took Magic Initiate (Warlock) to pick it up, since it seemed like we'd be fighting some oddball opponents from time to time, and only two things resist/nullify Force Damage.


conjure animals. Yes conjure animals. Then summon 8 raven swarms.
You know that just might work... I recall a druid in a campaign I was in using that to horrifyingly efficient effect. He'd always summon wolves, although I suppose raven swarms would be more effective, if moderately ominous.

[Mortis_Elrod]

conjure animals. Yes conjure animals. Then summon 8 raven swarms.

you mean 8 conspiracies.

[Matrix_Walker]

Looks like you're the party healer, so Mass healing word seems like a strong choice.

Find Steed is remarkably useful... A mount can help in battle, grant ridiculous movement, drag downed friends off the battlefield or over to you for healing, scout for you sending back telepathic messages, attack without sucking your action (but the low HP usually makes this a suicide mission), lots of fun stuff.

[Flashkannon]

Looks like you're the party healer, so Mass healing word seems like a strong choice.

Find Steed is remarkably useful... A mount can help in battle, grant ridiculous movement, drag downed friends off the battlefield or over to you for healing, scout for you sending back telepathic messages, attack without sucking your action (but the low HP usually makes this a suicide mission), lots of fun stuff.

Yep, Mass Healing Word is definitely second on the list, after Conjure Animals. As for Find Steed... I'm not sure a cat bard would look right riding on top of any of the provided options >_< (plus they might not be so great at sea)

If I can convince my DM to let me ride something of similar CR but maybe less or more silly I could consider it.

[Drayelock]

My College of Lore Bard just hit Level 6 recently and I went with Conjure Animals and Spiritual Weapon.

I know the conventional wisdom is Counterspell and something else but with these two spells I can control creatures around the battlefield, bonus action to attack with a floating spectral rapier, and also throw a spell or cantrip and still Cutting Words to boot. I use almost every action (move, action, bonus, and reaction) and am hurting enemies, controlling a beast, and helping allies all on my turn. I just feel so exhaustedl!

[Mortis_Elrod]

. I just feel so exhaustedl!

Ahh the sounds of complete use of action economy. Music to my ears.

[Citan]

Right, so I play a Lore Bard, newly at level 6. I'm basically the support caster/healer of the group. I keep everyone in working order, give people advantage vs the boss, mend people's snapped bowstrings, that kind of thing. I've already got one of my Magical Secrets spells locked down, as I needed to choose Revivify right away because our wizard picked up a Vulnerability to fire and got hit with a fire spell, killing him instantly. My DM was merciful though, and allowed me to take more time to think about my other choice.

I'm leaning towards Mass Healing Word, but there are really way too many spells to choose from.

I also have a Mac-Fuirmidh Sitern and I got a couple extra spells from Magic Initiate (Warlock) and a story event, so I have a few more spells than would the average bard.


Cantrips:
Minor Illusion
Mending
Vicious Mockery
Prestidigitation
Eldrich Blast

1st Level:
Faerie Fire
Healing Word
Hellish Rebuke
Cure Wounds
Protection from Evil and Good
Fog Cloud

2nd Level:
Lesser Restoration
Suggestion
Invisibility
Shatter
Magic Mouth
Levitate
Barkskin
Enhance Ability

3rd Level:
Dispel Magic
Fly
Revivify


My Party Members:
-A Swashbuckler Rogue, uses two rapiers
-A Barbarian with a Pirate-themed Homebrew Subclass (leadership & guns), uses a greataxe and also a gun now
-A Ranger with a Pirate-themed Homebrew Subclass (guns and treasure), uses guns and a bow
-A Wizard with a Pirate-themed Homebrew Subclass (voodoo, a couple extra spells)


Cantrips:
Unknown

1st Level:
Burning Hands
Comprehend Languages
Detect Magic
Disguise Self
False Life
Feather Fall
Fog Cloud
Jump
Magic Missile
Shield
Silent Image
Thunder Wave
Unseen Servant
Illusionary Script
Silent Image

2nd Level:
Alter Self
Detect Thoughts
Invisibility
Misty Step
Shatter
Flaming Sphere
Knock
Suggestion
Gust of Wind
Silence
Mirror Image

3rd Level:
Counterspell
Fireball
Dispel Magic
Haste
Leomund's Tiny hut
Fly
Waterbreathing

Hi!
Well...
Considering...
1. You have 2 melee characters with powerful attacks and.
2. You are the only one that can heal decently...

I'd suggest to you either one of the following:

- Aura of Vitality: decent enough spell to use in a really tough fight, but it uses your concentration, so there is that. Outside a fight, it's a decent slot to healing ratio.

- Beacon of Hope: possibly the best "healing" spell for your party, which lacks healing otherwise: this allows everyone to maximize the effect of their hit dice restoration, but also any use of Healer feat, potions, Healing Words etc.

- Warding Bond: I'm not sure of how vulnerability and resistance would interact (I'd argue that resistance being a magical effect takes precedence) for your Wizard, but that is always a great spell to use on anyone.

- Conjure Animals: enter the most versatile spell in essence: scouting (any), melee helpers (wolves), mounts (elks/horses), 1-2 rounds meatshield (2 high hp creatures), etc... You cannot expect them to last long in a fight, but there is certainly something useful to make of them in any situation.

- Slow: nothing like a good old friendly mass debuff: you are sure to hit at least one or two creatures, and this is as good as you can imagine: makes them easier to hit, far more dangerous (breaks multiattack), especially crippling on caster (spell delay).

[HandofBlades]

I would honestly suggest taking aid since you have melee. Five hit points for the base carting is nice. And up casting gets you five for ever level above 2nd. Lasts 8 hours no concentration and gives you a bit more for your healing to work on making you cast healing less.

[Maxilian]

you mean 8 conspiracies.

You mean 8 murders?

[Contrast]

You mean 8 murders?

Murder is for crows, I say with the confidence of someone who probably couldn't reliably tell you which one was which when presented with a raven and a crow :smallbiggrin:

[Maxilian]

Murder is for crows, I say with the confidence of someone who probably couldn't reliably tell you which one was which when presented with a raven and a crow :smallbiggrin:

Even better, just make 4 ravens and 4 crows to have a conspiracy of murder.

[90sMusic]

Unless your DM is being extremely easy on your party, you will never be able to outheal the damage that enemies will do to you. You'll run out of spell slots and still not be able keep up.

What you should invest in are some spells that reduce the damage your party is going to take rather than healing it retroactively.

Wall of Water seems very thematic for a piratey, high seas adventure. You can use it to protect your party against ranged attacks and fire damage. Wall of Sand is a little bit better but less thematic, it blocks line of sight completely and creatures are blinded while passing through it. Can setup some nice ambushes on the other side and things like that in addition to protecting your party from ranged attacks, spells that need line of sight, and so on.

Another good option i've always found was Goodberry. You can make 10 little berries and each one counts as a day's worth of nourishment, so you never have to worry about carrying food. They also have a great little perk in that they heal 1 hitpoint when eaten. That means that if you make 10 of these suckers with a single spell cast, you can bring back up to 10 people who are dying/unconscious back to 1 hitpoint and consciousness by shoving one down their throat. Otherwise it takes a spell slot to do something like cure wounds or healing word, and a single attack is likely to knock them unconscious again anyway, so the goodberry is the better choice imo. It gets you more bang for your spell slots.

But it really just depends how many fights you're getting into and how often you're given time to long rest to get spells back. If you aren't worried about trying to hold onto as many spell slots as possible, it may not matter as much to you.

[Sans.]

The DM - "The evil wizard casts Meteor Storm

Swarm, it's Meteor Swarm...

[Mortis_Elrod]

Swarm, it's Meteor Swarm...

you mean a shower. a Meteor Shower

[Flashkannon]

My College of Lore Bard just hit Level 6 recently and I went with Conjure Animals and Spiritual Weapon.

I know the conventional wisdom is Counterspell and something else but with these two spells I can control creatures around the battlefield, bonus action to attack with a floating spectral rapier, and also throw a spell or cantrip and still Cutting Words to boot. I use almost every action (move, action, bonus, and reaction) and am hurting enemies, controlling a beast, and helping allies all on my turn. I just feel so exhaustedl!
Conjure Animals is definitely the frontrunner for now. I was doing some thinking, and I could summon a Quetzacoatlus from Volo's, as that's CR 2, to serve as the party's airbus, since it's a Huge creature.


Hi!
Well...
Considering...
1. You have 2 melee characters with powerful attacks and.
2. You are the only one that can heal decently...

I'd suggest to you either one of the following:

- Aura of Vitality: decent enough spell to use in a really tough fight, but it uses your concentration, so there is that. Outside a fight, it's a decent slot to healing ratio.

- Beacon of Hope: possibly the best "healing" spell for your party, which lacks healing otherwise: this allows everyone to maximize the effect of their hit dice restoration, but also any use of Healer feat, potions, Healing Words etc.

- Warding Bond: I'm not sure of how vulnerability and resistance would interact (I'd argue that resistance being a magical effect takes precedence) for your Wizard, but that is always a great spell to use on anyone.

- Conjure Animals: enter the most versatile spell in essence: scouting (any), melee helpers (wolves), mounts (elks/horses), 1-2 rounds meatshield (2 high hp creatures), etc... You cannot expect them to last long in a fight, but there is certainly something useful to make of them in any situation.

- Slow: nothing like a good old friendly mass debuff: you are sure to hit at least one or two creatures, and this is as good as you can imagine: makes them easier to hit, far more dangerous (breaks multiattack), especially crippling on caster (spell delay).

Warding Bond is worth taking a look at, especially since our Barbarian has eschewn the path of the bear totem. I'm afraid Beacon of Hope won't be worth it for another long while, but I might come back to it later on once I'm rolling more dice for healing on a consistent basis. Aura of Vitality sounds great, but in practice I have other things to use my con slot on in battle, and outside of battle, we often get a lot of time to rest, since as the owners of a pirate ship we have a handy moving rest stop in about 3/4 of circumstances. Slow is a Wizard spell, so I'll leave that to the wizard to pick up for now.


I would honestly suggest taking aid since you have melee. Five hit points for the base carting is nice. And up casting gets you five for ever level above 2nd. Lasts 8 hours no concentration and gives you a bit more for your healing to work on making you cast healing less.
I'll consider that, but it doesn't seem like it'll offer the versatility of Conjure Animals. And plus, we haven't had too many problems with people actually running out of HP faster than I can help people (except the wizard, who has maybe 24 HP at level 6 because he thought the wizard hit die was still a d4 in 5e), in part because we're all experienced players and we tend to be the ones in control of the pace at which we get into more fights.


Unless your DM is being extremely easy on your party, you will never be able to outheal the damage that enemies will do to you. You'll run out of spell slots and still not be able keep up.

What you should invest in are some spells that reduce the damage your party is going to take rather than healing it retroactively.

Wall of Water seems very thematic for a piratey, high seas adventure. You can use it to protect your party against ranged attacks and fire damage. Wall of Sand is a little bit better but less thematic, it blocks line of sight completely and creatures are blinded while passing through it. Can setup some nice ambushes on the other side and things like that in addition to protecting your party from ranged attacks, spells that need line of sight, and so on.

Another good option i've always found was Goodberry. You can make 10 little berries and each one counts as a day's worth of nourishment, so you never have to worry about carrying food. They also have a great little perk in that they heal 1 hitpoint when eaten. That means that if you make 10 of these suckers with a single spell cast, you can bring back up to 10 people who are dying/unconscious back to 1 hitpoint and consciousness by shoving one down their throat. Otherwise it takes a spell slot to do something like cure wounds or healing word, and a single attack is likely to knock them unconscious again anyway, so the goodberry is the better choice imo. It gets you more bang for your spell slots.

But it really just depends how many fights you're getting into and how often you're given time to long rest to get spells back. If you aren't worried about trying to hold onto as many spell slots as possible, it may not matter as much to you.
Mostly what I do is prop the other party members back up into a fighting position when they run out of HP, but I digress. The walls seem worth looking into, as soon as I figure out what book they're from. And I do love theming! Goodberry is also worth checking out, for the reasons you mentioned, or at least Cajoling our Ranger into taking it.

[Pex]

Aura Of Vitality

Bonus action heal 2d6 hit points on someone every round of combat.

[JAL_1138]

Well, Mass Healing Word is, as noted in my post, my current frontrunner. Aura of Vitality's definitely a strong possibility, but I often find my concentration slot taken up by Faerie Fire in battle. Plus, as a Bard, I'm often using my Bonus Action to give the barbarian a hit of Bardic Inspiration.

Honestly the only reason Mass Healing Word isn't a shoo-in is because I do my job relatively well, and it has never yet occurred that two party members were ever down at the same time. Of course it could come in handy in a ship battle our crew was losing bad, but... I'm not really sold on the whole idea, especially considering the range limit of 60 feet, which is surprisingly hampering for ship battles.

Aura of Vitality is best used out-of-combat, IMO. For the slot cost, and for the ability to choose how to allocate each round of healing between party members (e.g., give it all to one party member, or distribute it somewhat more evenly), it's one of, if not the, best healing spells in the game. But as you noted, it's Concentration and you have better things to do with Concentration in combat.

Generally I find that in-combat healing for anyone but a Life Cleric is a losing game in terms of resource expenditure and/or action economy. But Aura of Vitality is still massively useful for out-of-combat healing, especially on a long adventuring day.

I dunno how well it does at high levels, but in level 5-10 play I've seen Conjure Animals deliver great results in Storm King's Thunder with summoned snakes. I dunno if I'd pick it up with a wizard with Fireball around, though. Makes it harder to drop AoE, since your critters will get crispy-fried.

From the regular Bard list, Hypnotic Pattern is amazing. No bard should pass it up, although I wouldn't spend a Secret on it. Take it at your next level. It has been the deciding factor in so many combats over my bard's career it's not funny. It's Concentration, but enemies don't get a save after the first one--if it sticks, they just stand there looking at the pretty colors for a minute or until you lose concentration, they take damage, or one of their allies uses its action to wake them up. Taking something (or preferably several somethings) out of the fight like that is a massive help.

[90sMusic]

Conjure Animals is definitely the frontrunner for now. I was doing some thinking, and I could summon a Quetzacoatlus from Volo's, as that's CR 2, to serve as the party's airbus, since it's a Huge creature.



Warding Bond is worth taking a look at, especially since our Barbarian has eschewn the path of the bear totem. I'm afraid Beacon of Hope won't be worth it for another long while, but I might come back to it later on once I'm rolling more dice for healing on a consistent basis. Aura of Vitality sounds great, but in practice I have other things to use my con slot on in battle, and outside of battle, we often get a lot of time to rest, since as the owners of a pirate ship we have a handy moving rest stop in about 3/4 of circumstances. Slow is a Wizard spell, so I'll leave that to the wizard to pick up for now.


I'll consider that, but it doesn't seem like it'll offer the versatility of Conjure Animals. And plus, we haven't had too many problems with people actually running out of HP faster than I can help people (except the wizard, who has maybe 24 HP at level 6 because he thought the wizard hit die was still a d4 in 5e), in part because we're all experienced players and we tend to be the ones in control of the pace at which we get into more fights.


Mostly what I do is prop the other party members back up into a fighting position when they run out of HP, but I digress. The walls seem worth looking into, as soon as I figure out what book they're from. And I do love theming! Goodberry is also worth checking out, for the reasons you mentioned, or at least Cajoling our Ranger into taking it.

The walls are from Elemental Evil i'm pretty sure.

[Flashkannon]

The walls are from Elemental Evil i'm pretty sure.
Gotcha. I'll go borrow my friend's manual.


Aura of Vitality is best used out-of-combat, IMO. For the slot cost, and for the ability to choose how to allocate each round of healing between party members (e.g., give it all to one party member, or distribute it somewhat more evenly), it's one of, if not the, best healing spells in the game. But as you noted, it's Concentration and you have better things to do with Concentration in combat.

Generally I find that in-combat healing for anyone but a Life Cleric is a losing game in terms of resource expenditure and/or action economy. But Aura of Vitality is still massively useful for out-of-combat healing, especially on a long adventuring day.

I dunno how well it does at high levels, but in level 5-10 play I've seen Conjure Animals deliver great results in Storm King's Thunder with summoned snakes. I dunno if I'd pick it up with a wizard with Fireball around, though. Makes it harder to drop AoE, since your critters will get crispy-fried.

From the regular Bard list, Hypnotic Pattern is amazing. No bard should pass it up, although I wouldn't spend a Secret on it. Take it at your next level. It has been the deciding factor in so many combats over my bard's career it's not funny. It's Concentration, but enemies don't get a save after the first one--if it sticks, they just stand there looking at the pretty colors for a minute or until you lose concentration, they take damage, or one of their allies uses its action to wake them up. Taking something (or preferably several somethings) out of the fight like that is a massive help.
I guess I will be shelving Aura of Vitality then. Our party gets ample opportunity to rest outside of combat and often days pass in-game between combat encounters. 'Tis the nature of the sea.

I don’t fear Fireball for any uses of Conjure Animals.
The player who plays the wizard has a tactical mind and likes to cooperate. We can work things out in a sufficient manner.

And yeah I think I'll just lose Lesser Restoration for Hypnotic Pattern.

[FabulousFizban]

raven swarms: let me point out that swarms can occupy other creatures space - including themselves. stack 8 swarms on one target, tell the DM this should grant advantage. then roll 16d20 for 16d6 damage. witness the power of this fully armed and operational spellcaster!

[Flashkannon]

raven swarms: let me point out that swarms can occupy other creatures space - including themselves. stack 8 swarms on one target, tell the DM this should grant advantage. then roll 16d20 for 16d6 damage. witness the power of this fully armed and operational spellcaster!
After doing some supplemental reading I'm not sure whether swarms count as a singular creature for the purposes of Conjure Animal. Otherwise though, I could use them as an impromptu wall of sorts.

[Saiga]

Also, the DM chooses what animals are summoned by Conjure Animals.

I'm pretty sure Swarms don't get advantage from occupying a creature's space either.

[KnotaGuru]

Also, the DM chooses what animals are summoned by Conjure Animals.

Not always, ask your DM first. It's a pain for the DM to choose the creatures and taking time to look up options. Much easier for the player to do it. The online SRD has most creatures. Giant owls are probably the best flying choice, wolves for pact tactics and trip,
giant poisonous snakes (cobras) can cause some serious damage, as can 8 charging elk. 2 giant octopus would work well in a pirate campaign.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Also, the DM chooses what animals are summoned by Conjure Animals.

I'm pretty sure Swarms don't get advantage from occupying a creature's space either.


DM only has the statistics, but the character chooses which creature is summoned following the guidelines. Swarm of Ravens is a different creature than a Raven. Both are beasts though and Swarm of Ravens is 1/4 CR, making it legal to have 8 summoned via Conjure Animals. I think you are right about the advantage thing though, don't seem to see any reason tha swarms have advantage when occupying same square....

[Saiga]

Sage Advice clarified that it is up to the DM. If they choose to hand that responsibility back to the player, they're also free to do that.

I think that's especially relevant if you're aiming to abuse a specific creature.

[FabulousFizban]

Also, the DM chooses what animals are summoned by Conjure Animals.

I'm pretty sure Swarms don't get advantage from occupying a creature's space either.

no, it does not RAW grant advangtage. This is why i said you tell them DM it should grant advantage, then see if they buy it. nothing in the spel says the DM specifies the animals conjured. They are fey spirits that assume the form you want, not actual animals.

[Flashkannon]

Also, the DM chooses what animals are summoned by Conjure Animals.

I'm pretty sure Swarms don't get advantage from occupying a creature's space either.
It may be Rules As Intended, but it sure as heck isn't Rules As Fun. I'm really not sure why that rule would be in place except to prevent powergaming, but honestly I don't think it can cause too much harm to allow me to select my own creatures, especially when I'm gonna be summoning a bunch of big cats usually for Flavor reasons. If they were real animals I'd understand, but they're not, at all. And, to be honest, I didn't choose to be a Wildmage Sorcerer, so I don't see why the DM should be in control of any aspect of my magic.

[Chugger]

If you're the group healer I don't see why you wouldn't take Aura of Vitality and dip 1 in Life Cleric to get that nice bonus (I don't mean this in a hostile way - and of course there could be reasons you wouldn't - I mean it in a figurative way).

Fairie Fire - I get it - but after a couple of rounds those guys are dead (the ones you got on round one, cuz they get taken out first usually) and the remaining enemy is probably going to be spread out - you're not going to get that much advantage off FFing again one at a time.

If your main focus is FF then you're a debuffer more than you are a healer - you're a debuffer first and a healer in a pinch.

With aura you got a decent heal every turn for 10 turns or so. If you don't lose conc. If not in battle, that can heal back a hwole party often when a short rest is not possible or when hit dice are spent.

How do your fights go? Do you all ever need heavy in battle healing? If so you may wanna drop the FF at the point where healing is needed and Aura. If you never are that desperate, then I dunno - pick something else.

[Chugger]

The warlock spell hunger of hadar is possibly the meanest control spell there is. It's wicked.

Especially if there's someone who can "push" them back in as they emerge! (evil!)

[Flashkannon]

If you're the group healer I don't see why you wouldn't take Aura of Vitality and dip 1 in Life Cleric to get that nice bonus (I don't mean this in a hostile way - and of course there could be reasons you wouldn't - I mean it in a figurative way).

Fairie Fire - I get it - but after a couple of rounds those guys are dead (the ones you got on round one, cuz they get taken out first usually) and the remaining enemy is probably going to be spread out - you're not going to get that much advantage off FFing again one at a time.

If your main focus is FF then you're a debuffer more than you are a healer - you're a debuffer first and a healer in a pinch.

With aura you got a decent heal every turn for 10 turns or so. If you don't lose conc. If not in battle, that can heal back a hwole party often when a short rest is not possible or when hit dice are spent.

How do your fights go? Do you all ever need heavy in battle healing? If so you may wanna drop the FF at the point where healing is needed and Aura. If you never are that desperate, then I dunno - pick something else.
It depends on the situation. Usually, I save Faerie Fire for combats where we have a Boss on our hands and then focus on Vicious Mockery as often as I can to keep its damage down. For more mob-focused encounters, I've got Shatter (and Hypnotic Pattern now) if they're grouped up, and if they aren't I toss a bardic inspiration to the barbarian and if there isn't something fun and creative I could do with Suggestion or Dispel Magic to gum up the works I go work on whatever ancilliary problems might be going on. Like if the giant squid just tossed a guy overboard, I go get him. If the Ranger just snapped their own bowstring for the Nth time, I go fix it for him. If the Rogue is having trouble hitting things I go stand on the other side of the enemy he's trying to hit. If someone goes down at any point, I use Healing Word to get them back up, and since my initiative bonus is pretty high, they usually still get their turn that round.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm the combatant that goes around and puts out fires. Sometimes metaphorical, sometimes literal, like when the Wizard got melted that one time and I had to Revivify him.


The warlock spell hunger of hadar is possibly the meanest control spell there is. It's wicked.

Especially if there's someone who can "push" them back in as they emerge! (evil!)
I know why Hunger of Hadar exists, and it sure is a great spell, but I'm pretty sure that if I took it, my character's fellow PCs would think she's finally gone off the deep end. They're already convinced she's a sociopath for, uh, semi-valid reasons? If I summoned the void from beyond time and space that's filled with the caressing tentacles of things that must not be thought about too deeply, I don't think it'd look too good. All the same, due consideration.

[Saiga]

It may be Rules As Intended, but it sure as heck isn't Rules As Fun. I'm really not sure why that rule would be in place except to prevent powergaming, but honestly I don't think it can cause too much harm to allow me to select my own creatures, especially when I'm gonna be summoning a bunch of big cats usually for Flavor reasons. If they were real animals I'd understand, but they're not, at all. And, to be honest, I didn't choose to be a Wildmage Sorcerer, so I don't see why the DM should be in control of any aspect of my magic.

So talk to your DM. I think the rule is there to prevent abuse in an open ended way since the MM isn't necessarily balanced around player use. They also explained it allows the DM to pick thematically appropriate creatures based on the environment.

If you have a specific idea for your character (big cats), ask your DM before you pick the spell. I did the exact same thing for a "raised by wolves" themed character and it was no issue.

[Flashkannon]

So talk to your DM. I think the rule is there to prevent abuse in an open ended way since the MM isn't necessarily balanced around player use. They also explained it allows the DM to pick thematically appropriate creatures based on the environment.

If you have a specific idea for your character (big cats), ask your DM before you pick the spell. I did the exact same thing for a "raised by wolves" themed character and it was no issue.
I suppose I'll have to. :smallfrown:

My DM and I don't have the best of histories as far as powergaming is concerned. I got into D&D back in the days when 3.5 was big, and I was super into cheese, to a slightly detrimental degree. I learned my lesson pretty dang quick, but ever since that his hackles always raise when I could be doing things to cheese stuff (read: optimizing my character, trying to make homebrew stuff), which is part of why I've been kinda laid-back as far as my character's direct debuffing and control spells go, and why I've been sparing with Suggestion and Invisibility.