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View Full Version : DM Help [3.5] Non-Psionic Elan & Half-Giant Variants



Thurbane
2017-09-13, 03:51 AM
Hey all,

If I was looking to houserule/homebrew non-psionic versions of these races into my game, what changes should I make to their racial traits:

ELAN

-2 Charisma
Aberration: Elans are not subject to spells or effects that affect humanoids only, such as charm person or dominate person.
Medium: As Medium creatures, elans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Elan base land speed is 30 feet.
Elans (unlike most aberrations) do not have darkvision.
Naturally Psionic: Elans gain 2 bonus power points at 1st level. This benefit does not grant them the ability to manifest powers unless they gain that ability through another source, such as levels in a psionic class.
Resistance (Su): Elans can use psionic energy to increase their resistance to various forms of attack. As an immediate action, an elan can spend 1 power point to gain a +4 racial bonus on saving throws until the beginning of her next action.
Resilience (Su): When an elan takes damage, she can spend power points to reduce its severity. As an immediate action, she can reduce the damage she is about to take by 2 hit points for every 1 power point she spends.

Repletion (Su): An elan can sustain her body without need of food or water. If she spends 1 power point, an elan does not need to eat or drink for 24 hours.
Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic). Elans’ past lives expose them to wide ranges of language.
Favored Class: Psion.
Level Adjustment: +0.


HALF-GIANTS

+2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity: Half-giants are tough and strong, but not too nimble.
Giant: Half-giants are not subject to spells or effects that affect humanoids only, such as charm person or dominate person.
Medium: As Medium creatures, half-giants have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Half-giant base land speed is 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision: A half-giant can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Fire Acclimated: Half-giants have a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against all fire spells and effects. Half-giants are accustomed to enduring high temperatures.
Powerful Build: The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger.
Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him.
A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.
Naturally Psionic: Half-giants gain 2 bonus power points at 1st level. This benefit does not grant them the ability to manifest powers unless they gain that ability through another source, such as levels in a psionic class.
Psi-Like Ability: 1/day-stomp. Manifester level is equal to 1/2 Hit Dice (minimum 1st). The save DC is Charisma-based.
Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Giant, Gnoll, Ignan.
Favored Class: Psychic warrior.
Level Adjustment: +1.


...please save the "Psionics are great, just use them in your game" arguments please. :smallwink: I like both of these races, but we VERY strictly do not include Psionics in our games.

For Elan, I'm thinking +1 luck bonus to saves, DR 2/magic, and the benefits of a Ring of Sustenance? Favored class: Wizard?

For Half-giant, I'm thinking Ironthunder Horn (SC p.126) as an SLA 1/day? Favored Class: Swordsage (or maybe Barbarian)?

PS I will NOT be changing the LA on either of these races.

Cheers - T

Venger
2017-09-13, 08:18 AM
For elan, do you want to switch its goodies over to arcane stuff if you want to make more of a wizard focus? Maybe some crappy slas, like drow.

for what you're giving up, just make the save bonus untyped.

for half-giant, it definitely needs more stuff if you're planning on keeping it LA1. as-is, it's already a bad waste of a level. Again, you might consider some slas. Look to secrets of xen'drik's primordial giant template for inspiration.

since swordsages are often good fits for skulks, they offer little synergy with half-giant. crusader or warblade may be a better fit for favored class (do you play with multiclass xp penalties?)

TIPOT
2017-09-13, 08:54 AM
How about for Elan,

An Elan can use two of these abilities in any combination per day
Resistance (Su):As an immediate action, an elan can gain a +4 racial bonus on saving throws until the beginning of her next action.
Resilience (Su): When an elan takes damage, she can reduce its severity. As an immediate action, she can reduce the damage she is about to take by 2 hit points or spend 2 uses to reduce it by 4
Repletion (Su): An elan can sustain her body without need of food or water and does not need to eat or drink for 24 hours.

For half Giant just refluff Goliath? They're pretty similar in a none psionic world.

ATHATH
2017-09-13, 10:54 AM
So, uh, WHY are you very firm on not adding psionics to your campaign?

NomGarret
2017-09-13, 02:01 PM
Yeah, not really sure what role these races would play. The half-giant is basically a Goliath with heat tolerance, for a "Dark Sun but no psionics so not really" feel. You can change the backstory of the Elan to something else - arcane, most likely. Convert their powers to SLAs.

Out of curiosity, are there other XPH races you're keeping?

Crake
2017-09-13, 02:19 PM
Yeah, not really sure what role these races would play. The half-giant is basically a Goliath with heat tolerance, for a "Dark Sun but no psionics so not really" feel. You can change the backstory of the Elan to something else - arcane, most likely. Convert their powers to SLAs.

Out of curiosity, are there other XPH races you're keeping?

I'm just as confused. Honestly, half giant I can understand, I always thought it was weird that they were psionic, but for elan, being psionic is their thing. It's like saying "I want genasi in my game, but I don't want them to be descended from elementals". If you take that away from them, then what you have left isn't really an elan, is it? It's just a pile of abilities that somewhat resembles those that an elan has.

Thurbane
2017-09-13, 05:44 PM
How about for Elan,

An Elan can use two of these abilities in any combination per day
Resistance (Su):As an immediate action, an elan can gain a +4 racial bonus on saving throws until the beginning of her next action.
Resilience (Su): When an elan takes damage, she can reduce its severity. As an immediate action, she can reduce the damage she is about to take by 2 hit points or spend 2 uses to reduce it by 4
Repletion (Su): An elan can sustain her body without need of food or water and does not need to eat or drink for 24 hours.

For half Giant just refluff Goliath? They're pretty similar in a none psionic world.

That looks really cool, thank you!


for half-giant, it definitely needs more stuff if you're planning on keeping it LA1. as-is, it's already a bad waste of a level. Again, you might consider some slas. Look to secrets of xen'drik's primordial giant template for inspiration.

I disagree: powerful build and the ability boosts are enough for LA +1 in a relatively low powered game. YMMV. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?310087

I thought Ironthunder Horn was a pretty good replacement for Stomp 1/day.


So, uh, WHY are you very firm on not adding psionics to your campaign?

With no disrespect intended: for reasons I won't be going into here. :smallsmile:


I'm just as confused. Honestly, half giant I can understand, I always thought it was weird that they were psionic, but for elan, being psionic is their thing. It's like saying "I want genasi in my game, but I don't want them to be descended from elementals". If you take that away from them, then what you have left isn't really an elan, is it? It's just a pile of abilities that somewhat resembles those that an elan has.

Yeah, not really sure what role these races would play. The half-giant is basically a Goliath with heat tolerance, for a "Dark Sun but no psionics so not really" feel. You can change the backstory of the Elan to something else - arcane, most likely. Convert their powers to SLAs.

Out of curiosity, are there other XPH races you're keeping?

For much the same reason as I use non-psionic Illithids and Gith in my games (their "psionics" are basically just re-fluffed SLAs anyway).

No psionics in my game, period. For any creature where there is a psionic and non-psionic official version, the non-psionic will always be used. At this point in time, as far far as player races go, no other psionic races will be included.

Venger
2017-09-13, 06:00 PM
I disagree: powerful build and the ability boosts are enough for LA +1 in a relatively low powered game. YMMV. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?310087

I thought Ironthunder Horn was a pretty good replacement for Stomp 1/day.
I'm aware that goliath is also LA 1. It's overpriced too because melee can't have nice things. Between either of those at LA 1, or something like a dragonborn water orc for 0, I'd go with the latter every time.

ironthunder horn's a nice sla and all, but you need some compelling stuff to waste a level.

Thurbane
2017-09-13, 06:13 PM
I'm aware that goliath is also LA 1. It's overpriced too because melee can't have nice things. Between either of those at LA 1, or something like a dragonborn water orc for 0, I'd go with the latter every time.

ironthunder horn's a nice sla and all, but you need some compelling stuff to waste a level.

Fair call. However, in our games we usually go with the WotC stingy LA assignments rather than the more generous Playground LA assignments.

Even the humble Hobgoblin incurs LA +1, and they are definitely weaker than a Half-giant, even without psionics.

What are people thinking of my suggested favored classes (FC is a rule we enforce in our games. Yes, I realize that makes us horrible people)?

Venger
2017-09-13, 06:25 PM
Fair call. However, in our games we usually go with the WotC stingy LA assignments rather than the more generous Playground LA assignments.

Even the humble Hobgoblin incurs LA +1, and they are definitely weaker than a Half-giant, even without psionics.

What are people thinking of my suggested favored classes (FC is a rule we enforce in our games. Yes, I realize that makes us horrible people)?

Huh? Those templates are +0, though, it isn't a houserule.

What is your goal with keeping multiclass xp penalties? This will help us judge how fitting they are

Thurbane
2017-09-13, 06:45 PM
Huh? Those templates are +0, though, it isn't a houserule.

What is your goal with keeping multiclass xp penalties? This will help us judge how fitting they are

Erm, templates? I'm confused - I was talking Half-giant and Hobgoblin?

To be fair, I'm very sleep deprived today, so I may have mistyped something...

Venger
2017-09-13, 06:52 PM
Fair call. However, in our games we usually go with the WotC stingy LA assignments rather than the more generous Playground LA assignments.

Even the humble Hobgoblin incurs LA +1, and they are definitely weaker than a Half-giant, even without psionics.



Huh? Those templates are +0, though, it isn't a houserule.

What is your goal with keeping multiclass xp penalties? This will help us judge how fitting they are


Erm, templates? I'm confused - I was talking Half-giant and Hobgoblin?

To be fair, I'm very sleep deprived today, so I may have mistyped something...

your post implied that the LAs I quoted for these races are not accurate. did you mean something else?

Thurbane
2017-09-13, 07:00 PM
your post implied that the LAs I quoted for these races are not accurate. did you mean something else?

Oh, I missed your reference to Dragonborn etc. altogether, sorry.

No, what I meant, and I explained this badly, is that our group rolls with the official LAs as much as possible, even if they are wildly variable and/or inaccurate at times.

Like I said, I'm a bit sleep and coffee deprived right now. :smalltongue:

Venger
2017-09-13, 07:12 PM
Oh, I missed your reference to Dragonborn etc. altogether, sorry.

No, what I meant, and I explained this badly, is that our group rolls with the official LAs as much as possible, even if they are wildly variable and/or inaccurate at times.

Like I said, I'm a bit sleep and coffee deprived right now. :smalltongue:

it's cool.

fair enough.