Breath weapon changes

[The Ship's dog]

I have realised that the Dragonborn breath attack is, honestly, pretty garbage after level 4. I know that racial traits aren't supposed to be better than class features, but seeing as things like the Yuan-Ti Innate Spellcasting is a things, and their breath weapon is kind of the whole point of being a Dragonborn, I've decided to improve them.

My thoughts are to simply add 'riders' which are additional features based on the type of damage that the breath attack does, if the target fails their saving throw.

Fire: Add 1d6 to your damage of this ability
Cold: All affected creatures cannot gain hit points until the start of your next turn
Lightning: All affected creatures cannot take reactions until the start of your next turn
Acid: All affected targets take an extra 1d6 at the end of their turn for the next two rounds.
Poison: All affected creatures are poisoned until the start of your next turn
Damage dice are changed to d8s, but it still scales like is usually does.

Recharge on a d10 roll of 9-10. It can only recharge this way a number of times between long rests equal to your Con mod.

Riders:
Fire: Deals an additional 1d8 damage per tier.
Cold: Reduces all affected creature's speed by 10ft until the start of your next turn.
Lightning: All affected creatures cannot take reactions until the start of your next turn. Creatures wearing armour made of metal have disadvantage on this saving throw.
Acid: All affected creatures take an extra 1d8 points of acid damage per tier at the end of their next turn for two turns.
Poison: All affected creatures are poisoned until the start of your next turn.

At 11th level all effects that continue until the start of your next turn continue until the end of your next turn.

My ideas behind these are that they are almost all Cantrip effects, so they really aren't overpowered, but it means that they also can stay useful throughout the Dragonborn's adventuring career, like any racial trait should.

So, what do you think?

[DarkKnightJin]

It's a nice touch to give each type a bit more personality.

I think what most people have issue with though, is that the damage scaling isn't rewarding enough.
The RAW damage cap is 5d6 at 16th level.
By the time you get to that level of power, most if not all classes will be better served by using their action NOT unleashing that Breath Weapon. Unless you manage to get enemies in a perfect spot. And you've been bumping your Con all game, so the DC is actually not something they're going to step over and only take half damage.

Personally, I'd bump the damage by 2d6 every increment, ending at 8d6 at 16th level. Pretty much a short range Fireball/Lightning Bolt, once per short rest.
It would need some playtesting, but I think that'd be a decent jumping off point.

Either that, and/or letting them roll a d6 every so often, and it recharges on a 6.

[Balyano]

Maybe the rider for the Fire breath could be a cloud of obscuring smoke for one round?

[Joe the Rat]

Some other thoughts:

Fire: Ignites flammable materials; On Fire: additional 1d6 per round, DC 10Dex save to extinguish. You have a built in oil flask/alchemist's fire
Ice: -10 movement, per Ray of Frost until SONT / End of their next turn. Also extinguishes fires.
Acid: -2 to AC (soften them up) until SONT. Melf's Acid Arrow has a half-damage 2nd turn burn, but that would throw the damage out of line with the other breaths. Automatic full damage to objects is possible environmental.
Poison: Lightly Obscures AOE until EONT; the Poisoned condition is a really good idea.

Rather than give a recharge die, you could let Dragonborn spend a hit die to get another blast (draining their reserves to push). You could limit this to 1/sr (meaning two blasts /sr).

[Sigreid]

It would be cool if it recharged on a short rest and was a bonus action attack so you can breathe and do your normal action.

[Aett_Thorn]

It would be cool if it recharged on a short rest and was a bonus action attack so you can breathe and do your normal action.

Uhh...they do recharge on a short rest.

[Joe the Rat]

The bonus action breath, however, would give it more utility.

[Aett_Thorn]

The bonus action breath, however, would give it more utility.

That I agree with.

Also, Dragonborn are the only race in the game that only gets two racial abilities. Most get 4-5. Dragonborn get "three", but one of those is choosing the effects of the other two, and so really doesn't count. Their lack of Darkvision, or some sort of racial AC or natural weapon is just bizarre.

[Sigreid]

Uhh...they do recharge on a short rest.

AFB and wasn't sure. They haven't been popular in my group.

[Specter]

You know the Dragonborn's breath weapon is garbage when it's weaker than cantrips after level 5.

If you want to improve it, you needsone (or maybe more) of the following:

1) Recharge like a dragon's breath (on a 5 or 6)
2) Increase by 2d6 instead of 1d6 on every increment
3) Use Charisma instead of Constitution for the save
4) Make their ranges broader (20ft. cone or 40ft. line)

Personally I'd go with 1 and 2.

[Rebonack]

A Dragonborn's breath weapon falls somewhere between a cantrip and a 1st level spell (burning hands) on a short rest refresh. It's supposed to be their big thing, but it's situational early game and once you hit ~level 5 it becomes a detriment in most cases to use it.

One option is to make it become a bonus action once the player hits level 5. That keeps it relevant as a nice little damage bump. Though, personally, I think it would be more fun to preserve it as something core to the character. The breath weapon is honestly all you get out of this racial choice, so it should be pretty great. It's competing with an extra feat or all the goodies half-elf gets.

At level 1 the breath weapon remains unchanged. It's a solid early game choice if you can catch at least two baddies in it. At level 5 its damage increases to 4d6 and it now uses the recharge mechanic of actual dragon breath weapons. Roll a d6 at the beginning of your turn, on a 6 you can use the breath weapon again. At level 11 the damage bumps to 6d6 and it now recharges on a 5 or a 6. At level 17 the damage bumps to 8d6. Finally, base the save DC on St or Cha, whichever is greater.

I'm also a fan of offering Dragonborn caster players a custom feat, Voice of Light. They get a +1 bump to Str or Cha and the ability to Smite using their breath weapon. Just a fun option for players that want to feel a little more dragon-y.

[Aett_Thorn]

You know the Dragonborn's breath weapon is garbage when it's weaker than cantrips after level 5.

If you want to improve it, you needsone (or maybe more) of the following:

1) Recharge like a dragon's breath (on a 5 or 6)
2) Increase by 2d6 instead of 1d6 on every increment
3) Use Charisma instead of Constitution for the save
4) Make their ranges broader (20ft. cone or 40ft. line)

Personally I'd go with 1 and 2.

In terms of 3), I'd almost be tempted to use Str for the save. Constitution is just odd, but it's not really their force of personality that the enemy is trying to avoid in this case. However, the strength of the DB's lungs might come into play for how quickly/powerfully the burst comes out. Most other races with spells or spell-like abilities get to use their +2 stat for the save.

[JBPuffin]

My DM's letting our Dragonborn Tempest Cleric use breath as a bonus action, and he's okay with it thus far. My personal fix gives DB darkvision, bonus action breath weapon, and proficiency with the player's choice of Athletics, Intimidation, or Persuasion.

[DarkKnightJin]

At level 1 the breath weapon remains unchanged. It's a solid early game choice if you can catch at least two baddies in it. At level 5 its damage increases to 4d6 and it now uses the recharge mechanic of actual dragon breath weapons. Roll a d6 at the beginning of your turn, on a 6 you can use the breath weapon again. At level 11 the damage bumps to 6d6 and it now recharges on a 5 or a 6. At level 17 the damage bumps to 8d6. Finally, base the save DC on St or Cha, whichever is greater.


I'm stealing this to put forth to my DM about my Dragonborn Paladin.
It's got a bunch of what we already fleshed out (2d6 per bump), but finetunes some other things.
I might have to give up the 5-6 recharge since I got 2 Breaths per short rest with Dragon Knight Oath's Channel Divinity.

Thanks for that one btw, digits of MFoV! Love the flavor.

[90sMusic]

Just slap a 5-6 recharge on the breath and call it done.

It will always be inferior damage to using basically anything else you can use unless it hits multiple targets, but if you do manage to get it off on a few targets at once, it can be on par or even slightly above attacking depending on the number of targets hit.

I ran these numbers just the other day. Greatsword and 18 strength (at level 5) dealing 4d6+8 damage per round (22 average), or if they grabbed great weapon master instead of +2 strength, it could potentially do 4d6+26 per round (40 average).

The breath doesn't even increase until level 6, so we'll compare it to that.

With breath weapon only doing around 10.5 damage per round at 3d6, it has to hit 3 targets to surpass hitting something with your weapon.

Assuming great weapon master, it has to hit 4 targets and then only do, on average, 5% more than just straight hitting would have done, so it really has to hit 5 targets to see a real benefit from using it.

And while attacks can potentially miss, the breath can be resisted and more often than not is because it scales off their constitution modifier which typically isn't very high unless someone is making a tanky character.

I have found through many games that the recharge option seems to be the best solution as players aren't afraid to use it when they think it might be beneficial, whereas normal short-rest breath they tend to hold onto because it is virtually never optimal to use and they don't want to waste it and then miss a chance to get some mileage out of it for once. It also lets players use their breath in roleplaying situations or as a tool in their problem solving kit for out of combat situations which they rarely do since it is a limited use attack.

Giving it recharge means you'll see it more often in play, especially in non-combat scenarios to really bring out that dragonborn vibe, but at the same time it takes very special circumstances for it to become optimal to use and needs a lot of targets which doesn't really happen that often, especially in higher levels where targets tend to be bigger and fewer of them. But it covers all bases: makes it fun to use, makes it more useful, makes it feel iconic, all while not making it too strong.

If you're a level 1 fighting hoards of goblins, breath (even short rest breath) will seem like the greatest thing in the world. But once you get out of the little 1-5 modules and into some meatier content, that breath becomes next to worthless. And then again, when you get even higher level, and tend to only fight large or larger enemies most of the time, it falls off again as you aren't going to hit that many at once typically with a 15 foot cone or 30 foot line. But it'll be decent during that middle part, and still have utility and at least the "chance" to be good later on and without feeling like you're being punished for using it until you can take another short rest.

[Eric Diaz]

Many races seem to have "natural weapons" and other powers that become less relevant at high levels. I think that is done on purpose, so I wouldn't want to make them useful at all times (unless you spend a feat, etc). But small fixes per tier seem reasonable. I like the idea of recharging on a 5-6, and maybe raising damage after a while (adding proficiency would be enough IMO).

[90sMusic]

Many races seem to have "natural weapons" and other powers that become less relevant at high levels. I think that is done on purpose, so I wouldn't want to make them useful at all times (unless you spend a feat, etc). But small fixes per tier seem reasonable. I like the idea of recharging on a 5-6, and maybe raising damage after a while (adding proficiency would be enough IMO).

Natural weapons can be useful at high levels though, they never lose any effectiveness and you can use them with extra attack, only catch is they usually do less damage than a real weapon but since you can never be truly disarmed of them, it's always a good time.

I will say though, natural weapons need to have the stipulation that you are automatically proficient in using them and they count as finesse weapons to use either strength or dexterity. I don't think there is a single creature in the monster manual with natural attacks that doesn't use it's highest stat (strength or dexterity) to determine attack and damage rolls with it's claws. And of course, they are all proficient.

With those simple adjustments, a tabaxi can use their claws to sneak attack and do alright damage. It still won't ever be as good as using say, a rapier, but thematically it's awesome. I often play a tabaxi archer along those lines. He carries no melee weapons and fights at range 90% of the time, but on the rare occasion something gets in his face, he'll claw it instead of pulling out a second weapon.

A monk with natural claw weapons is in great shape because they can choose to do either bludgeoning or slashing damage with their attacks and can use the higher of the two values for damage rolls, which is always nice.

[The Ship's dog]

Thank you for all of these great replies! So looking through them, there are a few trends coming up that I would like to incorporate into the second iteration of this (which I will put in the OP):

Breath Weapon 1.1
Damage dice are changed to d8s, but it still scales like is usually does.

Recharge on a d10 roll of 9-10. It can only recharge this way a number of times between long rests equal to your Con mod.

Riders:
Fire: Deals an additional 1d8 damage per tier.
Cold: Reduces all affected creature's speed by 10ft until the start of your next turn.
Lightning: All affected creatures cannot take reactions until the start of your next turn. Creatures wearing armour made of metal have disadvantage on this saving throw.
Acid: All affected creatures take an extra 1d8 points of acid damage per tier at the end of their next turn for two turns.
Poison: All affected creatures are poisoned until the start of your next turn.

At 11th level all effects that continue until the start of your next turn continue until the end of your next turn.

[Aett_Thorn]

Thank you for all of these great replies! So looking through them, there are a few trends coming up that I would like to incorporate into the second iteration of this (which I will put in the OP):

Breath Weapon 1.1
Damage dice are changed to d8s, but it still scales like is usually does.

Recharge on a d10 roll of 9-10. It can only recharge this way a number of times between long rests equal to your Con mod.

Riders:
Fire: Deals an additional 1d8 damage per tier.
Cold: Reduces all affected creature's speed by 10ft until the start of your next turn.
Lightning: All affected creatures cannot take reactions until the start of your next turn. Creatures wearing armour made of metal have disadvantage on this saving throw.
Acid: All affected creatures take an extra 1d8 points of acid damage per tier at the end of their next turn for two turns.
Poison: All affected creatures are poisoned until the start of your next turn.

At 11th level all effects that continue until the start of your next turn continue until the end of your next turn.

I think that most recharges are done using a d6 in this edition. Not like it can't be a d10, but I think that a d6 is more consistent.

As for the riders:

Fire: I'd say just a flat 1d8 regardless of tier

Cold: Good

Lightning: Disadvantage on the save is huge compared to the others in terms of the overall damage output. I'd say scrap that. Inability for multiple creatures potentially to use reactions is enough.

Acid: again, just a flat 1d8 per turn is fine

Poison: Fine

[The Ship's dog]

I think that most recharges are done using a d6 in this edition. Not like it can't be a d10, but I think that a d6 is more consistent.

As for the riders:

Fire: I'd say just a flat 1d8 regardless of tier

Cold: Good

Lightning: Disadvantage on the save is huge compared to the others in terms of the overall damage output. I'd say scrap that. Inability for multiple creatures potentially to use reactions is enough.

Acid: again, just a flat 1d8 per turn is fine

Poison: Fine
I had the recharge be an a d10 roll so that it was possible to recharge, but because I'm putting riders on them, I didn't want it to recharge very quickly.

The lightning one was basically just experimenting with putting more of shocking grasp onto it.

The Acid and Fire ones were ecause lots of people were saying more damage per tier would be good.

[Eric Diaz]

Natural weapons can be useful at high levels though, they never lose any effectiveness and you can use them with extra attack, only catch is they usually do less damage than a real weapon but since you can never be truly disarmed of them, it's always a good time.

I will say though, natural weapons need to have the stipulation that you are automatically proficient in using them and they count as finesse weapons to use either strength or dexterity. I don't think there is a single creature in the monster manual with natural attacks that doesn't use it's highest stat (strength or dexterity) to determine attack and damage rolls with it's claws. And of course, they are all proficient.

With those simple adjustments, a tabaxi can use their claws to sneak attack and do alright damage. It still won't ever be as good as using say, a rapier, but thematically it's awesome. I often play a tabaxi archer along those lines. He carries no melee weapons and fights at range 90% of the time, but on the rare occasion something gets in his face, he'll claw it instead of pulling out a second weapon.

A monk with natural claw weapons is in great shape because they can choose to do either bludgeoning or slashing damage with their attacks and can use the higher of the two values for damage rolls, which is always nice.

Completely agree; what I was referring to is the bold part (also thinking of magic weapons), but you make some fair points about not being disarmed, making characters thematically cool, etc.


Thank you for all of these great replies! So looking through them, there are a few trends coming up that I would like to incorporate into the second iteration of this (which I will put in the OP):

Breath Weapon 1.1
Damage dice are changed to d8s, but it still scales like is usually does.

Recharge on a d10 roll of 9-10. It can only recharge this way a number of times between long rests equal to your Con mod.

Riders:
Fire: Deals an additional 1d8 damage per tier.
Cold: Reduces all affected creature's speed by 10ft until the start of your next turn.
Lightning: All affected creatures cannot take reactions until the start of your next turn. Creatures wearing armour made of metal have disadvantage on this saving throw.
Acid: All affected creatures take an extra 1d8 points of acid damage per tier at the end of their next turn for two turns.
Poison: All affected creatures are poisoned until the start of your next turn.

At 11th level all effects that continue until the start of your next turn continue until the end of your next turn.

Seems a bit OP, but cool.

I assume creatures that make the save avoid these effects?

"Recharge on a d10 roll of 9-10. It can only recharge this way a number of times between long rests equal to your Con mod." Seems a bit fiddly; maybe recharge could be tied to damage.

E.g.: you only need a short rest if you cause more than 5 points of damage per dice (assuming 1d8s).

[Kane0]

For your consideration, how my table does it:

Breath weapon damage scales at 2d6 @ lvl 1, 4d6 @ lvl 5, 6d6 @ lvl 11 and 8d6 @ lvl 17
Breath weapon required a bonus action, recharging on a short rest

Dragonborn also gain darkvision and the Hoardsense ribbon (always know the value and location of all treasure in your possession)