Working on Barbarian / Rogue

[Mocpages]

Preface: I honestly think Reckless Attack sucks, even for rogue. I'd rather use Swashbuckler to get my Sneak Attack in.

So, basically, I've been working on characters based on backstory and roleplaying, not optimization or filling slots in the party lineup.
One of my favorite historical characters was a hot-tempered wizard who fought with flintlock pistols (this was napoleonic) more than spells. It was awesome and I want to try a similar character: low HP, high temper, general coolness.

I got some pretty good stats (18 16 16 15 12 10 before racials and ASI), and I'm building for level 6. I'm fond of Variant Human, but not sure what feat is best given that I'm going to be using a finesse weapon albeit with strength. Lucky is always good so that's my current thought. Get one of the classes to 4 and get my Str to 20, con or dex to 18. Aim for Barbarian 4 because I want the Bear Totem resistance and my understanding is once you hit l3 you should take 4 for the ASI. So, start at Rogue 4 / Barb 2?

Now, the major questions:
-Advice on how to RP her? (I think she will be pretending to be a man since the world is somewhat sexist and I like the idea)
-Stat lineup?
-How will I be getting AC? I'm assuming that I'll use my Cunning Action to Dodge every turn, and my Rage resistances and Barb HP will also be a huge help. That said, light or medium armor? Perhaps mithril?
-Is swashbuckler the best rogue subclass for this?
-Am I correct about Reckless Attack or is it actually awesome?
-General advice etc.

[Mocpages]

The other thing I'm considering is a foul-mouthed Monk / Barb with the Soldier backround. Possibly an alcoholic. He's trying to find peace, he really is, but he isn't very good at it.

[smcmike]

Barbarian/Rogues are super fun.



I got some pretty good stats (18 16 16 15 12 10 before racials and ASI), and I'm building for level 6. I'm fond of Variant Human, but not sure what feat is best given that I'm going to be using a finesse weapon albeit with strength. Lucky is always good so that's my current thought. Get one of the classes to 4 and get my Str to 20, con or dex to 18. Aim for Barbarian 4 because I want the Bear Totem resistance and my understanding is once you hit l3 you should take 4 for the ASI. So, start at Rogue 4 / Barb 2?

Those are crazy good stats. If you are starting at level 6, I'd consider Barbarian 5/Rogue 1, with all subsequent levels in Rogue. Extra attack is very good. Take barbarian first regardless, for max first level hit points, better saves, and armor proficiency.

Two feats I think you should consider - Shield Master and Sentinel. You will be optimized for Athletics, and shield master lets you take advantage of that (particularly valuable if you don't like reckless attack). Sentinel gives you another way to get in a second sneak attack per round. I would take both of these over Lucky.



Now, the major questions:
-Advice on how to RP her? (I think she will be pretending to be a man since the world is somewhat sexist and I like the idea)


With those stats? As a superhero. Passing is a fun twist.



-Stat lineup?


Priority strength, then constitution, then dexterity, then wisdom or charisma, your choice. With mountain Dwarf you could start 20, 18, 16, 15, 12, 10. With half Orc or dragonborn you could start 20, 16, 16, 16. 12, 10. Consider picking a race with darkvision, for stealth.



-How will I be getting AC? I'm assuming that I'll use my Cunning Action to Dodge every turn, and my Rage resistances and Barb HP will also be a huge help. That said, light or medium armor? Perhaps mithril?

1. You don't need armor. With 16s in dexterity and constitution, and wielding a shield, your AC is 18. Max constitution, and it's 20. That's plenty.

2. You can't Dodge with Cunning Action.



-Is swashbuckler the best rogue subclass for this?

Depends entirely on what you want. Having four high stats makes it very viable.



-Am I correct about Reckless Attack or is it actually awesome?

It is actually awesome. Fortunately, you don't need to use it all the time - just when you don't have another source of sneak attack, or really want advantage.

[DarkKnightJin]

I've been planning a (refluffed) Goliath Rogue/Barbarian, with a 14/6 split, and going Totem. Thief for the Rogue. Rapier, sorta sneaky, maybe Shield Master to go ham on baddies..

I'm getting giddy just thinking about the possible shenanigans.

[Specter]

If you're not fond of Reckless Attack, you could be better off with a DEX barbarian. With a maxed DEX, 18CON and a shield, you can have 21AC. Adding Rage, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion and a shield, you'd have 21AC and lots of ways to mitigate damage.

[grumbaki]

So then...

(1) Stats rolled 18 16 16 15 12 10
(2) Character Concept: Female Barbarian Rogue
(3) Crunch Advice:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/8f/96/fc/8f96fcd3734c1e41f9ea60465a35c6d4.jpg

Race Mountain Dwarf
Str (20) Dex (16) Con (18) Int (12) Wis (15) Cha (10)

Lvl 1: Barbarian
* Axe and Shield
* AC19
* Rage to bash berks over the head
* Intimidate and Perception as class skills, Survival and Knowledge Nature as background skills

Start barbarian to get the most out of the d12 HP base, and for starting off with the AC19.

Lvl 2: Rogue
* Sneak Attack
* More and better skills. Can grab stealth.

Go Bear Totem Barbarian (Tank anything) and Swashbuckler Rogue (Specialize in fighting people 1v1)

For ASIs, get Con20 asap, then Dex20 right after. You can get this at lvl12.
While you won't get the amazing barbarian capstone, it is rare for campaigns to go that high anyways.
Between rage, sneak attacks, and swashbuckler dueling, you'll be pumping out some insane damage.
At lvl12, you'll have Str20 Dex20 Con20. With a shield, that is AC22, resistance to everything but psychic damage.

For future ASIs, grab resilient (+1 Wis for 16 and get prof bonus on Wis saves)
Can also get polearm master (bonus attack when using a quarterstaff and shield), Shield Master, or Sharp Shooter (with Str20 and Dex20 you can throw axes or fire bows with the best of them. This makes you a real threat in close quarter combat and at range)

I recommend doing Barbarian (8) Rogue (4). This gives you all the ASIs for lvl12 so you have the perfect physical stats. It also gives you 2 attacks, with +2d6 sneak attack damage for when one hits. With a basic axe, that is 1d8+2d6+7 damage. Really not bad.


(3) RP Advice

* She is a dwarf from a northern clan. Unlike the 'soft' people of the south, women in her clan are expected to be just as tough and as skilled with an axe as any man. Otherwise, they won't survive
* She is an expert trapper, hunter, and warrior. Hence why she can stealth, disarm traps, and why her survival and knowledge nature skills are so good.
* Her adventuring career started off by taking work as a guide for settlers and merchants, seeking to explore the north for untapped resources
* This offered her far more gold than she had ever seen before in her life. It was shocking to her how people could be so wealthy, and so weak at the same time. It wasn't long before she headed south, both to see the world and to make more 'easy money'
* The concept of women 'staying at home' and being someone who needs protecting, is completely alien to her.
* Her goal is to eventually return to her clan in glory, with tales of conquest and with enough gold to be remembered as a great hero. She really wants a saga written about her.

[smcmike]

I recommend doing Barbarian (8) Rogue (4). This gives you all the ASIs for lvl12 so you have the perfect physical stats. It also gives you 2 attacks, with +2d6 sneak attack damage for when one hits. With a basic axe, that is 1d8+2d6+7 damage.

You can't sneak attack with an axe.

[grumbaki]

You can't sneak attack with an axe.

Sorry. You're right. Completely forgot about that. I'm just used to having "axe" and "dwarf" in the same sentence. A rapier would thus be best (1d8 damage) but it'd feel weird. I'd just use a shortsword then.

Or if your GM is nice, a warpick. It's also 1d8 piercing damage, and feels much more 'dwarven barbarian.' Just pay the 25 gold instead of 5 and call it a day.

[djreynolds]

NO.

If you want some rogue for cunning action and expertise, okay. 2 levels.

Otherwise take GWM and reckless attack everything in sight. Most things will be dead before they ever get to swing at you with advantage.

So grab a great axe, or maul, or great sword. Or grab PAM after selecting GWM, and get a glaive.

[Marcloure]

I've made a build of a Barbarian/Rogue quite a time ago. I made a thread in these forums looking for tips, so I'm just pasting my concept here (somethings may be out of context).
__________________________________________________ ________________________

So, I'm thinking in a character and I need some help with her build. I'm doing her based on a concept that is not very powerful by it's own, but I want the best I can do with it.

What I'm looking for is a character that "fights dirt and brutal". Fristly, I've thought in doing her barb/rogue (ok, that is weird). The ideia is to use berserker (I know it's just too punitive) and use grapple action and shove with advantage of rage, then use the bonus action of frenesi to sneak attack the prone enemy. It would be like she shoves her enemies to their knees, and cut their throat.

I've thought in doing fighter or ranger in the place of barbarian (I don't think the concept would keep it's coolness, but whatever). With fighter/ranger, I could take Dueling Style and add 2 to the damage (as do rage). This way, I would be able to pick some maneuvers or hunter's skills, or even focus on the rogue path instead. But, I woludn't have neither the bonus attack to strike with sneak attack until the 5th level of fighter/ranger or the advantage in grapple.

With barbarian, the DPR would be something like: 1d4 (tavern brawler) + 2 (rage) + 3 (str) + 1d8(weapon) + 1d6 (sneak) + 2(rage) + 3(str).
Avarage: 19 damage/turn, if all goes right. Less than a straight foward damage dealer, but with a cool flavor.

That is at level 4, human variant. I could even take 2 fighter level after that, and gain the action surge and dueling style (bye bye ASI though).

In my skills list, I have got Stealth, athletics, intimidation and maybe survival. The character I'm looking for fights with brutality, but can do a trick or two.

Obs: If I have undestood right, rage requires that the attack is made with STR for damage bonus, but the sneak attack only requires that the weapon is finesse, not made with DEX. (this is confirmed right, but I will leave the observation here anyway)
Obs2: She would use a rapier, but customized in the form of a basket-hilt sword. It's more into the pirate theme.

[djreynolds]

You could begin as a barbarian for unarmored defense, and then go monk.

Leave dex and con around 16, max strength, and leave wisdom at 13

Its not optimal with standard array but it isn't terrible.

[smcmike]

NO.

If you want some rogue for cunning action and expertise, okay. 2 levels.

Otherwise take GWM and reckless attack everything in sight. Most things will be dead before they ever get to swing at you with advantage.

So grab a great axe, or maul, or great sword. Or grab PAM after selecting GWM, and get a glaive.

What a silly thing to say.

[GlenSmash!]

Barb/Rogues work great either you go deep into Rogue with a little bit of Barb, or Deep into Barb with a little bit of Rogue. A Rogue dip will get a Barb Expertise in athletics for better shoves and grapples, and likewise a Barb dip will give rogue Rage for better shoves (to give advantage for sneak attack)

As far as Reckless Attack goes, I love it. It's one of the best Tanking abilities there is. Also combined with Elven Accuracy form the UA feats for races it becomes at will super advantage.

Of course if you are not tanking, or are not an Elf or Half Elf reckless attack is less valuable.

[bid]

I got some pretty good stats (18 16 16 15 12 10 before racials and ASI), and I'm building for level 6.
Now, the major questions:
-Advice on how to RP her? (I think she will be pretending to be a man since the world is somewhat sexist and I like the idea)
-Stat lineup?
-How will I be getting AC? I'm assuming that I'll use my Cunning Action to Dodge every turn, and my Rage resistances and Barb HP will also be a huge help. That said, light or medium armor? Perhaps mithril?
-Is swashbuckler the best rogue subclass for this?
-Am I correct about Reckless Attack or is it actually awesome?
-General advice etc.
With those stats, don't bother with a Str race. You are more than 2 ASI above point buy and can pick whatever race suits your fancy. What racial feature is a must for your RP concept?

About your questions:
You can't dodge with CA. Swashbuckler guarantees you'll get SA, which negates needs to RA, and good initiative if you Cha15+.

The best stealth medium armor gives you AC16, same as Dex16 / Con16 unarmored defense. Light armor is weaker, same as Con14. If you have extra attacks, you can use a shield for AC18 in either case. That'd make shield master your best feat, along with athletics expertise.

The problem with naked defense is... you can't hide your sex. Unless you fluff wearing a fur top that is neither armor nor too revealing. You may want medium armor master and reach AC18/20 with an excuse for not using unarmored defense.

Same issue with being a wrestler, it becomes harder to avoid discovery. You may have to take suboptimal choices to keep your RP concept.


Halflings can Str18 Dex18 Con16 Int10 Wis12 Cha16.
Gnomes can Str18 Dex16 Con16 Int12 Wis12 Cha16.
You could even pick tiefling and still have good stats.

Really, find a racial feature you need.

[Theodoxus]

NO.

If you want some rogue for cunning action and expertise, okay. 2 levels.

Otherwise take GWM and reckless attack everything in sight. Most things will be dead before they ever get to swing at you with advantage.

So grab a great axe, or maul, or great sword. Or grab PAM after selecting GWM, and get a glaive.

At level 6? Only if he's going after popcorn. Any decent encounter at that level is going to have things with 70-120 HP... and multiples of them. There's no way he'll one shot them.

I've played that barbarian/rogue, and while fun, I was on my back most encounters I 'recklessly' used reckless attack. If there's good support, it's fun. if there's not, you miss out the last half of the combat...

[djreynolds]

At level 6? Only if he's going after popcorn. Any decent encounter at that level is going to have things with 70-120 HP... and multiples of them. There's no way he'll one shot them.

I've played that barbarian/rogue, and while fun, I was on my back most encounters I 'recklessly' used reckless attack. If there's good support, it's fun. if there's not, you miss out the last half of the combat...

IMO, a barbarian is designed to get hit.

You want to draw the enemy in.... and then take half damage while raging

Reckless attack and rage are a perfect combo. And GWM especially does so much damage with advantage

I like barbarian/rogues, but honestly I'd rather use shield master with rogue and get advantage that way.

http://burrowowl.net/2014/10/the-5e-savage-duelist/

This build ^^ works, grab what you need from barbarian and then stay rogue and focus on that sneak attack damage.