How would you make the perfect horror film?

[Blackhawk748]

With IT proving that Hollywood is capable of making a horror film that doesn't hinge on Gore and jump scares, I've been thinking about what a good horror film would be like.

Me being me, this is mostly Slasher style films that either subvert certain tropes or ignore them all together to create a better atmosphere.

So, how would the playground handle this?

[SaintRidley]

It's been done. It's called Audition.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I personally prefer the "X characters in a box approach", my favorites include Cube and the first half of The Beast (which isn't even trying to be a horror movie), so that's what I'd go with. I'd probably add a healthy helping of "what's real and what's not?", something with supernatural visions or something, from a source outlined as vaguely as possible. Pan's Labyrinth is my absolute favorite here, but I'd also try to gain some inspiration from movies like Ju-on: The Grudge. What would be really important is to keep everything as believable as possible. It's impossible to completely prevent fake looking effects, but they should at the very least look like they're actually there, think The Thing (1982). Across all that the movie needs a creepy theme, something worked out well across all corners of the movie, whether it's a science fiction theme like Alien handles so well or supernatural or modern with a twist or anything. Following in the footsteps of The Beast I think I might actually try a horror movie set in a tank. The tank is lost in some sort of supernatural landscape, forcing them to stay clustered up and find the real horror is found on the inside. Also, I'd avoid endings that make the horror any less real. This can be done very well, but it's a risk. If the main character wakes up from a coma or something there should definitely be a clear sign the cycle is just going to immediately start again.

Audition was nice, but maybe not completely my style.

[Blackhawk748]

It's been done. It's called Audition.

That would be the Japanese movie? I just read a plot synopsis on it and it is very much not what I want. I prefer low Gore in my horror. I wanna be scared not sick

[Kid Jake]

I'd go with something like The Shining or the old Amityville Horror. Supernatural horror with a slower pace, building on a feeling of uneasiness rather than a bunch of "Ooga booga." type moments.

I think I'd focus the supernatural events on a single character, since being able to relate his experiences to someone else would provide some degree of comfort and decrease the tension. Instead, he'd have to hide his experience lest people think he's crazy or out for attention.

I'd never show a ghost on screen, just unexplained phenomena. He'd hear things, see stuff out of the corner of his eye, crap would move on its own...things that everyone can relate to in the middle of the night.

As things got worse he'd wake up with claw marks, hear growling and voices, develop health problems and maybe find physical evidence that this carp isn't in his head.

To wrap things up I'd end on a downer. Maybe someone finds him dead in his home and calls it suicide, maybe have him assuring his painfully skeptical girlfriend that everything's fine as some intimidating shadowy figure materializes just out of her view to taunt him...etc...

Whether the Supernatural element is real or not, just make sure to emphasize that it consumed and ruined his life while the rest of the world rolled its eyes and there's not a damned thing he can do about it. Because absolute helplessness is the scariest thing if all.

[Anthony222]

I think it should be like The Strain. I watch it on http://torrents-movies.info/ltv/films/ (http://torrents-movies.info/ltv/films/). It has three seasons already. In my opinion, those people who like horror films should enjoy this series. Recently I've found out there exist comics called The Strain and I'm going to read them.

[Sinewmire]

It really depends on what scares you.

Paranormal Activity, for example, could have been tailor made to scare me. It features everyday unexplained things - things falling, wierd noises etc. ie. stuff that actually happens in real life with no explanation (beyond "the cat must have knocked it" or whatever) coupled with a slow build and no real explanation. If that's not bad enough to which, finding out more and confronting the 'Demon' is actively making things WORSE and the only answer is to try and ignore it and hope it goes away.

That couples something that genuinely frightens me with making my preferred response actively harmful. I lay awake for some time after watching that film.

[JoshL]

I'm not sure I could make a perfect horror film, because I like too many different kinds. I don't mind (and often like) gore, but not really into slashers, so anything on my list would probably be different than yours. I also disagree that IT shows filmmaking without gore and jumpscares, since it's chock full of both. Hell, the opening scene has a monster-face jumpscare, complete with soundtrack sting, followed by ripping a kid's arm off, so he bleeds out in the rain. I loved it, but it's hardly subtle horror

So if I were to make a film, with no budget considerations, i'd love to do fantasy horror. A swords and sorcery, d&d style horror film. It would be tough because monsters and supernatural are already part of the setting, and horror works by subverting expectations (you are safe in your own home, so it is scary to think of a killer standing right behind you, for example). So if you did a haunted house or an evil cult summoning elder gods, other than horror aesthetics, it wouldn't be as scary because the audience already accepts that stuff as part of the world (still cool though). A zombie apocalypse/plague film might still work, if you can get a proper sense of futility and dread. I think it would take a more clever writer than I to make it actually scary, but I want to see it. And all the failed attempts too, because they would still be awesome!

[Lacco]

So if I were to make a film, with no budget considerations, i'd love to do fantasy horror. A swords and sorcery, d&d style horror film. It would be tough because monsters and supernatural are already part of the setting, and horror works by subverting expectations (you are safe in your own home, so it is scary to think of a killer standing right behind you, for example). So if you did a haunted house or an evil cult summoning elder gods, other than horror aesthetics, it wouldn't be as scary because the audience already accepts that stuff as part of the world (still cool though). A zombie apocalypse/plague film might still work, if you can get a proper sense of futility and dread. I think it would take a more clever writer than I to make it actually scary, but I want to see it. And all the failed attempts too, because they would still be awesome!

Oh, fantasy horror... that could work. Mainly by starting the film quite normal (I once did this by introducing a party as warriors hired to defend a city) and then turning it into a horror (to escape when the city fell they had to use the tunnels which lead through ancient necropolis). Plus, as you stated - subverting expectations (in the game I mentioned light did not save them from horrors - the stronger the light, the more powerful the shadows...). Also: there is no safe spot. There is no right choice.

I'd let them escape the barrow, go to the inn just for them to wake up in it again. Yeah, I know. 1408 did that already... :smallwink:

[Lvl 2 Expert]

By the way, since we have this topic anyway: inspired by the comment about The Strain above, does anyone know of any good horror movie or series where they are investigating some weird disease or at least something sciency but which does not turn into a zombie movie at the halfway point? Let's label it lab rat horror. Turning into a monster movie featuring something clearly not zombies, like The Thing or Leviathan (both '89) is still okay.

[Pit of Shades]

How do you make the perfect Horror Movie? That's easy! Get Jeffrey Combs, Bruce Campbell, and Robert Englund to star and hire Stuart Gordon to direct. Done.

As for the new iteration of "It" it's not a perfect movie, or perfect horror movie, by any stretch. Every time that the clown does something "scary" there's a big dumb disembodied unexplained loud noise that goes off signaling the audience that this is supposed to be a scary moment. It's very much the epitome of a jump scare, but unlike most jump scares it's not a one and done and the scene/scary thing lingers for a while afterwards which gives it the appearance of not being a jump scare. If something truly frightening is happening you shouldn't need to auditory cue to the audience to be afraid, at least one that's not actually present in what's going on in the scene. Pennywise didn't have a big trash can to hit with a baseball bat, so what is that noise supposed to be?

[Blackhawk748]

It really depends on what scares you.

Paranormal Activity, for example, could have been tailor made to scare me. It features everyday unexplained things - things falling, wierd noises etc. ie. stuff that actually happens in real life with no explanation (beyond "the cat must have knocked it" or whatever) coupled with a slow build and no real explanation. If that's not bad enough to which, finding out more and confronting the 'Demon' is actively making things WORSE and the only answer is to try and ignore it and hope it goes away.

That couples something that genuinely frightens me with making my preferred response actively harmful. I lay awake for some time after watching that film.

Paranormal Activity was a great concept, my problem with it is two fold. 1. It was really easy for me to figure out their timing, and i rather annoyed my friends by counting down (silently) the scary bits in the theater (im actually pretty good at this most of the time, but then stuff like Playable Trailer goes and has no frigging timing and it scares the crap out of me) 2. The sequels. Just why?? It was good you shoulda just left it alone.

[Pit of Shades]

Paranormal Activity was a great concept, my problem with it is two fold. 1. It was really easy for me to figure out their timing, and i rather annoyed my friends by counting down (silently) the scary bits in the theater (im actually pretty good at this most of the time, but then stuff like Playable Trailer goes and has no frigging timing and it scares the crap out of me) 2. The sequels. Just why?? It was good you shoulda just left it alone.

I find the problem with Paranormal Activity is just how boring it is to watch. At least 60% of the movie is silent single angle shots of empty rooms or people sleeping. Cinematography is a great way to draw the viewer in and make them interested in an otherwise uninteresting thing or premise. Paranormal Activity doesn't have any... it's stationary camera angles of uninteresting things. When something actually does happen my mind is so disinterested for me to even try and care at that point.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

2. The sequels. Just why?? It was good you shoulda just left it alone.

Because they tried, through marketing, to sell a cheap dime a dozen horror movie (not a bad thing in itself, lots of good and even great ones out there) as a triple A blockbuster movie, and it worked. This means they had about half the costs of competing movies, namely only the marketing half, so it made loads of profit, and it put the movie on the map in such a way that they could make sequels they wouldn't even have to advertize as aggressively, because a part 2 of a popular film comes with an interested audience. So now, they could save both halves of the budget. They'd be crazy not to do it.

This series is eventually going to be longer than Hellraiser, because lamps falling over in the dark can be filmed for next to nothing, and for the next 40 years at least there will be people who fondly remember the original. Any surprise hits during the sequel train could further extend the series lifespan.

[Dr.Samurai]

With IT proving that Hollywood is capable of making a horror film that doesn't hinge on Gore and jump scares, I've been thinking about what a good horror film would be like.

Me being me, this is mostly Slasher style films that either subvert certain tropes or ignore them all together to create a better atmosphere.

So, how would the playground handle this?
Interesting, because IT kind of lost me in the first "scene".

I was expecting something creepier, since it's a clown, but when it's jaw stretched out, revealing a nasty maw, and it bites of Georgie's arm, I was kind of like "oh, it's just a monster".

Right at that scene I started thinking about how it could have been more impactful, for me at least.

And what I thought was... instead of IT chomping off his arm, Georgie still reaches for the boat. And IT grabs his arm with his other hand that's been off-screen the whole time. Bonus points if it's coming from a strange angle that doesn't immediately make sense. He's pulling Georgie into the storm drain, and Georgie is struggling, trying to hold himself against the curb. He's screaming "Stop, let go!". IT is smiling, like they're having a good time, and playfully says "No you let go!" And each time Georgie tells him to let go, IT replies back "No you let go!" until Georgie is pulled in and vanishes.

I don't know, the chomping the arm off and stretching his arm out onto the street wasn't scary to me. Same with the running toward the camera bits where he's all shaky or whatever. I did like the projector scene though because the slide mechanism allows tension to be built.

[Maryring]

I'd make it a Metroid movie... filmed from the perspective of the Space Pirates. :smallamused:

[Traab]

What I want are movies that inspire dread. Jump scares are cheap, its the particle board of horror films. Movies that make you scared and keep you that way are the real deal. Its hard to describe what I mean more precisely but I will try. Basically, you need to be immersed in the film, and feel like no matter what happens, its not over yet, you arent safe, you are going to die and at best you are delaying the inevitable. The kind of horror where you see the fear on the actors face as he empties a gun into the approaching monster, to the point where he is clicking an empty magazine multiple times but he is just so mind brokenly terrified he cant stop desperately trying to shoot because he is trapped and there is no way out. Survival horror I think is the term. You see it in some games where your character is very much so NOT armed, cant fight the bad guys, his only hope is to hide, sneak, and run whenever he has to. Here you are hiding in a locker as the big bad thumps past, praying it doesnt hear you, praying it doesnt search the room and find you. Knowing that if it DOES, you are dead.

[zlefin]

I don't know; horror is one of the few genres I really don't like much; and I don't understand it that well. I do have a dark side and could make up some scary/disturbing things; but ensuring it's a truly good movie would be difficult. I don't have a good sense of the objectives of horror; what mix of scaring the audience, vs the audience feeling they in some sense "enjoyed" the movie. the differences between scaring, worrying, and disturbing, and undoubtedly some other categories I'm not thinking of; and which of those exact things to aim for.
and of course what exactly constitutes "horror" as opposed to some related genres (or maybe subgenres).

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I think it should be like The Strain.

By the way, this is good tip. It's up on Netflix over here. Is there anything Guillermo del Toro does that is not at least sort of great? (Yes, I'm definitely already counting Trollhunters here.) A few episodes were even directed by Robocop.

EDIT: Although if I get one free complaint it would be that the main character is treated a bit too much like a main character. He's at best the fourth or fifth most useful member of even just his group, which is fine, but he gets treated by everyone including himself as really important, as the guy you want on point for how great he is at fighting or even as the leader while he just plain doesn't serve those roles. Aside from that he's a pretty good character.

[Yora]

First rule of horror: Don't give the audience a good look at the momster.
Second rule of horror: Don't explain the creature or supernatural force.

Which is why Alien is a good horror movie and everything that followed wasn't. (Though Aliens is a great action movie.)

Also: No jumpscares. The fact that the monster is present has to be horrific in itself. If you need to toot an air horn into the aidiences' ear, then your movie has already failed.

[random11]

Just saw IT yesterday, and... I was not impressed.
I liked the actors, and the effects were decent, but after the movie I went to drink coffee, and I discovered with my friends that we could hardly remember anything about the movie we just saw.

There was one part in particular, when one after the other all the kids are attacked by jump scares.
This part too fast, left no room to breath or build tension, so by the end I could MAYBE remember one or two of the scares in that entire set.
There were also some other flaws, but I'll keep them for a thread more focused on that movie.

IMO, a good horror movie is a movie that leaves you with feelings hours after it was done.
"The Ring" is probably the best example I can think of for a movie that scares you in that way, "Get out" also did a very good job with very little jump scares and with a disturbing emotion replacing the classic fear.

[Strigon]

Also: No jumpscares. The fact that the monster is present has to be horrific in itself. If you need to toot an air horn into the aidiences' ear, then your movie has already failed.

I disagree. Jumpscares are part and parcel of the horror movie; they're a tool, like any other.
Even Alien, which you claim to be a good horror movie, used jump scares. Now, the movie didn't need them; Alien would still work without them, but they definitely added to the experience.

The trick with jumpscares is using them correctly. Obviously they shouldn't be overdone - which I contend is where the perception that they're cheap and ineffectual came from - but they shouldn't be ignored entirely either. There's also the concern that they can serve as a release of stress; the creature has jumped out, the thing you were afraid of has happened, so there isn't anything left to fear. The trick, then, is to keep the tension.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

"The Ring" is probably the best example I can think of for a movie that scares you in that way,

Have you seen Ju-on: The Grudge? If not, I'd recommend it, to anyone who likes the "don't explain too much" style The Ring also uses.

[Kyberwulf]

Yea.. I have to agree with the statement made about alien. The movie is basically one long series of jumpscares. Like most of the slasher films, and paranormal activity. Nothing's happening, nothing's happening....nothings happening.... bam monster.

I used to think the same way about alien also. That it was a good action move. I think differently now. It's a good horror movie with good action scenes.

[Tvtyrant]

Here is my go.

City of Bad Stuff was evacuated due to a natural disaster. A group of college kids working on their various photography/journalism/modern archaeology degrees decide to go into the town and document it.

They go in and the weird thing is there is nothing wrong. Birds are singing, the sun is shining, all of the buildings are in good repair.

Their first destination is city hall, which looks totally normal except for a weird black door into a completely red room with a drain in the floor.

They next go to the local super market, which has all of the food in an unspoiled state despite the place being abandoned for years and also has the black door and red room.

Nightfalls and the group decide to hole up in a house. The house they go in has the same room, and the group decides It won't sleep in a house with that room. Five houses later and they are starting to get freaked, as every house has an unexplained room and no dust or decay.

As the group walks about at night, too creeper out to go into any more houses, they see the lights come on in the houses. Not all at once on a timer, but a lamp here, an overhead light there, and the occasional sound of a window sliding open.

At this point half the group wants to flee, the other half wants to hunker down. The camera stays with the ones who stay.

They decide to stay at the church, having think walls and only one entrance. The door to the church is black, and inside the entire church is red. Red and black candles make an aisle going down to the bodies of the members who fled a few minutes before, who are all in coffins and clearly dead.

The three remaining members at this time have a full blown breakdown, kicking and screaming at the floor and pulling out chunks of their hair. Black figures grab them and shove bags over their heads.

The protagonist wakes up at a nearby hospital with an IV in his arm and breathing tubes in his nose. He frantically calls the doctor, and they come in and explain that the town was abandoned due to a leak of a rare type of gas which causes hallucinations, paranoia, adrenal spikes and then cardiac arrest. It wasn't released because they didn't want people going in to experience it.

The rest of the party is in the other room, everything is fine. Protagonist goes back to his/her house, mom asks him/her to get something out of the basement. Black door, red room.

[Blackhawk748]

I would watch that, as it could make great use out of the POV camera

[Tvtyrant]

I would watch that, as it could make great use out of the POV camera

It needs some reorganizing, I didn't realize the potential of having it be a guy in an asylum until halfway through.

Once I got to the party splitting I suddenly realized it would be better with white rooms, and instead of a city a small village where every house is a white room. Some stuff subtly moves but the party never notices, and each major location "kills" one of his imaginary friends as he undergoes treatment. The big moment would be suddenly seeing hundreds of other people, freaking out, and then reverting to not seeing real people.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

It would need a bunch of foreshadowing though, that makes the difference between a twist ending (Sixth Sense, Sublime), and a cop out ending (every novel rejected by a publisher for heaving the words "it was all a dream" at the end ever).

EDIT: ninja'd by a post which kind of addresses this.

[Tvtyrant]

It would need a bunch of foreshadowing though, that makes the difference between a twist ending (Sixth Sense, Sublime), and a cop out ending (every novel rejected by a publisher for heaving the words "it was all a dream" at the end ever).

I don't know that the audience ever needs to be told it is an asylum, honestly. The best horror doesn't explain why things are happening, and the asylum bit just makes it easier to keep track of the pacing.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I don't know that the audience ever needs to be told it is an asylum, honestly. The best horror doesn't explain why things are happening, and the asylum bit just makes it easier to keep track of the pacing.

I meant the gasleak thing. If you build up a horror film and out of nowhere have someone wake up in a hospital (or turn out to be in a coma, or having a dying dream etc etc), even if you add the mandatory "or was it real anyway?" that's lame. There need to be hints to it (doubly so if the eventual explanation is pretty out there like "this town has continuously leaked hallucinogenic gas for the last four years, and nobody knows about it for some reason, where is that stuff even coming from, why?). There doesn't need to a really strong connection where everything in the dream is caused by something in the real world, but there needs to be a connection. Either that, or just leave the horror unexplained and don't try to have a twist ending.

EDIT: I would try to find a way to keep the red and black color scheme though, it looks good in my mind. They're dangerous colors, so they automatically invoke the feelings you want in those scenes.

But that's just my two cents of course.

[Tvtyrant]

I see your point. The twist to me is less important than letting the audience think they have won, giving them a moment of then, then taking that away.

The Ring is a perfect example, where they indicate they stopped the events then they happen anyway. It is a lucky with a football effect.

So somehow the protagonist needs to "get away" and then get caught anyway.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Maybe... the guy has a bunch of visions while in the village too, so you don't know whether the end is him waking up from a vision that was the main body of the film or him being in another vision inside of it?

[Tvtyrant]

Maybe... the guy has a bunch of visions while in the village too, so you don't know whether the end is him waking up from a vision that was the main body of the film or him being in another vision inside of it?

That's not bad. Especially if every vision has a black door and red room in it, so opening the black door to the basement just ends the movie without seeing if the room is there.

[Zogip2]

Joined the thread a little late but I actually have talked with a friend about this exact concept of what we would do if we made a horror movie.

I would definitely want something that has that slight meta parody feel like Scream, except I wanted something with a lot more gore like the Saw movies, because those tended to be my favorites. The problem is, not a lot of gory films become more open to parody like that. Then one certain movie hit me as perfect for this...

Final Destination

...it's both gory and the setup is simple enough to subvert. For those who haven't seen the movies, it's typically a story where a psychic character sees a scenario where a bunch of people die in over-the-top ways and one by one they all die in over-the-top rube goldberg machine ways later in the movie. The first thing I thought was "what if we had a final destination movie where the psychic is the killer?" and then I built it off that. Basically, it's a Final Destination movie where no one believes the psychic character, so the psychic does everything they can to make people believe them. Setting up the traps, tinkering with certain machinery, hell if it was considered a continuation to the series it could justify some deaths in earlier movies, like what Saw 7 did with its ending.

[random11]

I see your point. The twist to me is less important than letting the audience think they have won, giving them a moment of then, then taking that away.


Personally, I'm a bit tired of this trope.
It's not bad by definition, but recently almost every horror/suspense movie I've seen contained this, so it reached a point that in the last minute I'm EXPECTING a twist, which undermines the point of it.

Someone in this thread mentioned that sequels, but that problem applies not only to direct sequels, but also to anything that hits a saturated market.
Take zombies as an example, they are the monster version of a natural disaster and can be extremely scary, but when the audience see too much of them, it's hard for the concept itself to be scary.

[Loxagn]

I've always been a fan of Silent Hill as a game series. The film was... distinctly okay, but that style of horror speaks to me, the investigation, the growing sense of dread as you realize you're trapped in a place with something that hates you, and you can't do anything to drive it back. It explores the darkest parts of he psyche and reminds us why we fear the dark. A film in the vein of Silent Hill with better writing and a bit less 'fanservice' would probably be ideal.