Ability Scores or Racial Traits when creating a new race?

[mrguymiah]

Exactly as it says on the tin. Which do you think is more important when creating a custom race (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/creating-new-races/)?

My DM *may* allow me to make a custom race and I've been looking at the options. So I'm curious, giantip, which do you find more important; higher ability scores or a plethora of racial traits?

To me, higher ability scores seem to be the ultimately more powerful option, since one can acquire the various racial traits through magical methods, usually, where as AS seems to have a more hard cap. I can also see how flavorful many of these ability options are, though.

[Crake]

Beyond the base ability score quality of the race (of which you can only pick one, and the maximum you can spend there is 2, unless you're creating a race of advanced or monstrous power level), the only other options for raising ability scores is the advanced ability traits, which cost 4 points for a single +2, or the equivilent of picking the bonus feat racial trait. I suppose the question becomes: what are you looking for in the race. There are many racial traits that cost less than 4 points and can be quite valuable to a character, far more so than +2 to a single score, but then other classes may highly value that single +2, namely casters.

You could, for example, make a 9RP race that used greater paragon, and two advanced ability traits in the same score, netting +8 to a single score, and -2 to a physical and mental score. That could be very useful for a caster, but something that might be less SAD might not get much out of that. On the other hand, a bonus feat in exchange for reducing that +8 to a +6 could also be very lucrative for many characters.

Basically, the answer will depend on what your aim is with the race.

[bahamut920]

It really does depend. You generally do want to pick a race that has a bonus to your primary (or at least secondary) stat, but it's not always the be-all-end-all of the race's usefulness. A racial trait that complements your chosen class could be a make-or-break option as well. For example, humans were among the strongest races in 3.5 despite not having an ability score bonus at all, because a bonus feat and a bonus skill point each level are useful to literally any class, regardless of role or class abilities. Wizards and their phenomenal cosmic power appreciated them as much as the lowly fighter or rogue. And elves made good arcane casters due to their free martial weapon proficiencies giving them an in to PrCs like Abjurant Champion or Spellsword without needing to sacrifice caster levels on a fighting class or precious feats on Martial Weapon Proficiency (whatever), not due to their racial Dex bonus being particularly useful to wizards or sorcerers. Elven Rogues also generally appreciated free longbow proficiency. Dwarven Rangers liked being able to dual-wield dwarven waraxes without needing to spend a feat. The list goes on.

[zlefin]

I'd say on average ability scores are a bit omre valuable; but some of the traits are really solid; some, less so.
The main question though is: how much do you want to game the system for optimization of a race, vs making a race that's organic and sensible and feels like a coherent whole.
There's definitely a fair bit of room for optimization of a race; even more so if you're only making it fora single character, rather than something that needs to stand on its own as a race that supports many classes and builds.


just realized: the advanced stat traits require an "advanced" race; not a "standard" race. so a regular power race can't take the extra stats option. (at least if i'm reading it right)

[Crake]

just realized: the advanced stat traits require an "advanced" race; not a "standard" race. so a regular power race can't take the extra stats option. (at least if i'm reading it right)

Ah yes, that's right. I thought that to be the case, but I didn't see the advanced or monstrous race pre-requisite in the traits, so i thoguht it was alright. Then upon reading this, i noticed the Advanced traits heading. So yeah, in that case, for a standard race, the most you could spend on ability scores is 2 points for either +2 to two ability scores, or 2 points for +4 to one ability score and -2 to a physical and mental score.

Also keep in mind that some creature types are definitely worth a lot of racial points for their abilities.

[mrguymiah]

Ah yes, that's right. I thought that to be the case, but I didn't see the advanced or monstrous race pre-requisite in the traits, so i thoguht it was alright. Then upon reading this, i noticed the Advanced traits heading. So yeah, in that case, for a standard race, the most you could spend on ability scores is 2 points for either +2 to two ability scores, or 2 points for +4 to one ability score and -2 to a physical and mental score.

Also keep in mind that some creature types are definitely worth a lot of racial points for their abilities.

The race I'm building would have 30rp to work with. Long story involving casters and gods on power trips. So I could build a race with +4 in three stats, +2 in two, and buy off the penalty to the last one and STILL have ten points to spend on traits. Exactly why I'm asking for people's thoughts before I spam ability score upgrades.

[zlefin]

I'd say that's probably a good way to spend things (depending on what the goal of the race is); I didn't review the higher end traits you can pick up; there's some really sweet things in there. I'd say it makes more sense to pick out the awesome traits you want (and only the really good/worthwhile ones) then pour the rest of the points into stats.

[mrguymiah]

I'd say that's probably a good way to spend things (depending on what the goal of the race is); I didn't review the higher end traits you can pick up; there's some really sweet things in there. I'd say it makes more sense to pick out the awesome traits you want (and only the really good/worthwhile ones) then pour the rest of the points into stats.

I'm going for an angelic sort of theme. Due to their magical abilities my character has become the subject of a cult rapidly turning religion. They got wings through alteration magic and thus get called an angel. So my idea is to (hopefully) grab some magic from nirvana and grab the halo, to strengthen the image.

Side note; halfbreeds die stillborn in this world. So the other point is for my character and their lover to reincarnate into this race and avoid that.

Edit; mechanically, I'm waiting till I get a chance to talk to the dm, but this is my preemptive prototype.

For ability scores, I went with the advanced spread and then upped them further to the following array; 0 str, +4 str, +2 con, +4 int, +2 wis, +4 cha.

Racial Traits so far; 2rp static bonus feat for the Vestigial Wings heritage feat. Those who reach level seven get double land speed (via taking the next feat in the chain) Those who don't can have Spheres of Power Alteration magic used to permanently replace them with actual wings.

Since they're human type, I'm getting the flexible bonus feat, but trading it out for Sphere's Doppleganger alternate, which gives Alteration sphere as a SLA. So they've got shapeshifting on top of the wings.

Then, since they've got +4 to den and no bonus to str, I got nimble attacks for built in weapon finesse.

Then a couple of minor traits to help fluff them out.

[zlefin]

surprised you aren't going with native outsider with ties to one of the upper planes then.
overall that sounds like a fine build you've got going. have you reviewed the half-celestial template? if not it might give some interesting ideas.

[mrguymiah]

surprised you aren't going with native outsider with ties to one of the upper planes then.
overall that sounds like a fine build you've got going. have you reviewed the half-celestial template? if not it might give some interesting ideas.

Part of why I need to talk to the DM. My character is using spheres magic to create this race. (To then soul transfer into an empty body) so I'm pretty sure I'd actually need some of that planes magic to be able to make it outsider type. I'm friendly with the NG goddess, but I can't be sure shed let me use her magic for that. I want to make them outsiders of that plane for the celestial resistances and the halo.

[mrguymiah]

Finally got a chance to speak with the DM and they confirmed that I could get some magic from a Good plane. I pay the 3RP and I'm an Outsider associated with that plane. So here's the race build so far; Link (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-7Q46ISDUV6Y4v-7n2cf85F7VE6Qze_WRYczlAoIhhE/edit?usp=sharing)