LGBTAI+ #59: Will You Take This Woman To Be Your Galpal?

[JusticeZero]

As of New Years, I am unemployed.
I'm going to try to become an author, since I am afraid of working for someone else again. It seems like it ends horribly when I do.
I am absolutely terrified to the point of tears.

[Florian]

It seems like it ends horribly when I do.

How comes?

[Roland St. Jude]

Why are there so many trans people in the Playground? Did someone drop a cauldron full of Elixir of Sex Shifting in the water supply here or something?

Probably just a case of us trying to be a very welcoming place so people feel comfortable bringing the topic up.

Yeah, it's kind of to be expected that the forum which has had a thriving LGBT+ support thread for many years attracts and retains more trans members than one which hasn't.Sheriff: Truth.

That said, I need to offer a little red text modly guidance here. First, please don't discuss real world politics on this forum, even if it intersects acceptable topics. Please give discussions of politics (including electoral, party, legislative, administrative, law, policy, etc.) a wide berth. I had to scrub a couple posts upthread that linked to a news article about US policy.

Second, please remember that the rules that apply to the Forum threads also apply in PMs. The exchange below shouldn't happen here. Please don't make these kinds of requests or offer to facilitate them over PM. There are other venues for things not allowed here.

If anyone has some helpful advice for a subject I could get infracted or banned for mentioning out in the open I would appreciate it.
I'm asking for someone to help me in PM, so no one gets in trouble. Hopefully, I would get some help from a gay, or bi man.

PM'd you.extracharacters

[ArlEammon]

Sheriff: Truth.

That said, I need to offer a little red text modly guidance here. First, please don't discuss real world politics on this forum, even if it intersects acceptable topics. Please give discussions of politics (including electoral, party, legislative, administrative, law, policy, etc.) a wide berth. I had to scrub a couple posts upthread that linked to a news article about US policy.

Second, please remember that the rules that apply to the Forum threads also apply in PMs. The exchange below shouldn't happen here. Please don't make these kinds of requests or offer to facilitate them over PM. There are other venues for things not allowed here.

All I have to say is sorry..

[Mystic Muse]

I heartily recommend Discord for non-board safe topics. It's been my program of choice after putting the final nail in the coffin of Skype.

[Dire Moose]

https://i.postimg.cc/c4vpBvM5/FBF16-EFF-011-B-4603-9-AE5-30-B5-E99-E1-A2-C.jpg

[Lycunadari]

I came out to almost everyone who knows me today :smalleek: My dad writes a "family newsletter" every year before Christmas, about what we've done and what happened this year, and sends it to all our relatives and friends, and this year I wrote a short coming out letter and asked him to please send it along with the family newsletter. So once it reaches everyone (most people get it per email, but a bunch of mostly older relatives get it per snail mail) I'll officially be out to everyone. :smalleek::smallsmile:

[CWater]

I came out to almost everyone who knows me today :smalleek: My dad writes a "family newsletter" every year before Christmas, about what we've done and what happened this year, and sends it to all our relatives and friends, and this year I wrote a short coming out letter and asked him to please send it along with the family newsletter. So once it reaches everyone (most people get it per email, but a bunch of mostly older relatives get it per snail mail) I'll officially be out to everyone. :smalleek::smallsmile:

Good luck!! I hope it goes well!:smallsmile:

[noparlpf]

I came out to almost everyone who knows me today :smalleek: My dad writes a "family newsletter" every year before Christmas, about what we've done and what happened this year, and sends it to all our relatives and friends, and this year I wrote a short coming out letter and asked him to please send it along with the family newsletter. So once it reaches everyone (most people get it per email, but a bunch of mostly older relatives get it per snail mail) I'll officially be out to everyone. :smalleek::smallsmile:

Congrats! Hope it goes over well.

[Kesnit]

So...

My mother passed away suddenly the day after Thanksgiving. (Nov 23 for those not in the US.) A friend of my father wrote the obituary for the newspaper where they lived and the newspaper where they spent most of their adult lives and where I grew up. (My parents moved a few years after they retired.)

The orbit has me listed as their son, under my new name. While I was staying with Dad for the first memorial service, I got a friend request on Facebook from someone I knew in high school, M. She told me her mom (who was a teacher at that high school) had figured out how to find me (probably through the orbit) and told the person messaging me. M went on to say she understood if I didn't want to accept the friend request because I wanted to stay hidden. Given how supportive she was, I accepted. Within a few days, I had about 10 more friend requests from high school classmates.

I had been debating going to the memorial in the town where I grew up because I wasn't sure how it would go over. After the support I got, I decided to go. (It is this weekend.)

In addition, my 25th high school reunion is next year. I skipped my 20th because my parents still lived in the town where I grew up, and I didn't want to put them in an awkward position. I was not sure if I would go to my 25th because I didn't want to deal with drama. Now it seems likely I will go.

[Lycunadari]

Good luck!! I hope it goes well!:smallsmile:


Congrats! Hope it goes over well.
Thanks! Tbh, I'm not too concerned about how everyone will take it– I've already been out to all the important people for much longer, so this is really just for extended family and friends. The only reason I haven't done this sooner is that my grandma was still alive last year (I don't think she would have reacted badly, but she was really old and not that well mentally, so I didn't want to confuse her with this). But of course I still hope nobody's going to be a **** about it, even if I rarely see any of them, it would suck to know that my family is full of transphobes (but I don't think it is). In any case, I've already gotten two positive replies (from my nephews mother and an old friend of my father; not directly though, the wrote to my dad and dad told me what they wrote). :smallsmile:


So...

My mother passed away suddenly the day after Thanksgiving. (Nov 23 for those not in the US.) A friend of my father wrote the obituary for the newspaper where they lived and the newspaper where they spent most of their adult lives and where I grew up. (My parents moved a few years after they retired.)

The orbit has me listed as their son, under my new name. While I was staying with Dad for the first memorial service, I got a friend request on Facebook from someone I knew in high school, M. She told me her mom (who was a teacher at that high school) had figured out how to find me (probably through the orbit) and told the person messaging me. M went on to say she understood if I didn't want to accept the friend request because I wanted to stay hidden. Given how supportive she was, I accepted. Within a few days, I had about 10 more friend requests from high school classmates.

I had been debating going to the memorial in the town where I grew up because I wasn't sure how it would go over. After the support I got, I decided to go. (It is this weekend.)

In addition, my 25th high school reunion is next year. I skipped my 20th because my parents still lived in the town where I grew up, and I didn't want to put them in an awkward position. I was not sure if I would go to my 25th because I didn't want to deal with drama. Now it seems likely I will go.

I'm sorry for your loss. :smallfrown: But I'm glad you've found so many supportive people and I hope the memorial and the high school reunion will go well!

[Heliomance]

I just watched Incredibles 2, and holy hell they are not subtle about their queer allegories.

And then I read a series of unbelievably wholesome fan comics about the blatantly queer character, and I'm actually crying from the adorable.

<3 casual representation - even though it's never explicitly said that she's queer, its so very blatant that no queer person looking for representation could possibly miss it.

[JusticeZero]

So I just submitted my first ebook, in the process of learning how to be a full time author so I won't have to worry about politics at work. Getting fired from my day job for New Year.
One part hopeful, one part terrified.

[137beth]

So I just submitted my first ebook, in the process of learning how to be a full time author so I won't have to worry about politics at work. Getting fired from my day job for New Year.
One part hopeful, one part terrified.

Where'd you submit it to?

[JusticeZero]

Kindle and Smashwords (ergo, 'most everywhere else' - Smashwords and its competitor Draft2Digital distribute to various non-Amazon retailers). I don't know how much information about title/author I can give out here, given that it's under a pen name so I wouldn't be giving personal information.

[Florian]

I don't know how much information about title/author I can give out here, given that it's under a pen name so I wouldn't be giving personal information.

Well, you should give some thoughts about how you will advertise and how you will drive sales. The usual problem is that successful sales will drive further sales because your product (and yourself) will gain more visibility (rankings, recommendations and such). Ex: Spam your facebook profile and twitter account, get into WhatsApp groups of like-minded people and announce it there, anything to get this all-important initial boost.

[Lake Huron]

So I'm in love with a fellow who is homophobic as all hell.

Really starting to wonder why I bother waking up in the morning.

[137beth]

Kindle and Smashwords (ergo, 'most everywhere else' - Smashwords and its competitor Draft2Digital distribute to various non-Amazon retailers). I don't know how much information about title/author I can give out here, given that it's under a pen name so I wouldn't be giving personal information.
Cool, I like Smashwords. Although I understand if you are unable to post a link to it here.

So I'm in love with a fellow who is homophobic as all hell.

Really starting to wonder why I bother waking up in the morning.

That...sounds bad. Is are they directing their homophobia towards you or just towards other people?

[Lake Huron]

That...sounds bad. Is are they directing their homophobia towards you or just towards other people?

It's not really "directed". It's just something that gets brought up.

[Dire Moose]

I have an appointment to get my hair dyed pink on January 13.

[Ravens_cry]

I have an appointment to get my hair dyed pink on January 13.
Neat! Can't wait to see pics. I'd like to dye mine a bloody auburn. Probably not something that occurs naturally, but what the hey.

[137beth]

I saw an endocrinologist today. I'm starting on an anti-androgen tonight, although I will be holding of on estrogen for now.

[Ravens_cry]

I saw an endocrinologist today. I'm starting on an anti-androgen tonight, although I will be holding of on estrogen for now.
Congratulations! Best hopes on this step of your journey.

[The Extinguisher]

Some good news, i might ending fronting a really cool queer local band which is exciting and terrifying cause they're all very cool people and im going to a practice on monday to see how things work
Also ive quit smoking, which was unfortunately bad timing given:

Some bad news,
my nanny died over the new years. i knew it was coming cause she was in really bad condition right before, and i had started to make plans with my parents to go to the funeral, because i wouldnt make it in time to see her. but when my mom called me to tell me she passed, she also said that i shouldnt go down there for the funeral cause "with all thats going on" it "wouldnt be the right time" to tell my family im trans.

so yeah

it doesnt come from a place of hate, just that subtle rejection of not bothering to understand it. i almost wish they just hated me because thats almost easier to work through

[Honest Tiefling]

Go to the funeral if you can go with support. Don't miss out on it, you might end up regretting it, but it'll help if you have some burly family members on your side. Or bring a very large and socially adroit friend along. It'll probably help if you go without cross-dressing to have a friendly face or two as some seem like they might freak out that you're in a dress.

[Heliomance]

Ugh, I haven't heard anything more about surgery yet. I was told to expect that I'd get it done this January, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen because if it was surely they'd have told me by now

[Ravens_cry]

Ugh, I haven't heard anything more about surgery yet. I was told to expect that I'd get it done this January, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen because if it was surely they'd have told me by now
Contact them to find out what's up?

[Heliomance]

Contact them to find out what's up?

Surgeon is just back from maternity leave, there's no surgery slots free until February because another surgeon is using them all, they're going to discuss my case on Friday

[Prospekt]

I'm getting laser next week! I'm excited, and maybe a bit scared of the pain, but mostly excited! Besides, I had the skin on my right hand melted off a couple months ago, so how bad can it be, eh?

[JusticeZero]

Hey, is there anybody around who is strongly genderfluid, as in "sense of gender wanders and spends substantial amounts of time in one or the other binary in a strong way"? I'm trying to include a character like that in writing as a secondary character, but my gender is static and I don't know what that experience is like, so I would rather not work from secondary sources. Or if I have been misled, I need to know that too. PM-able.

[Lycunadari]

Hey, is there anybody around who is strongly genderfluid, as in "sense of gender wanders and spends substantial amounts of time in one or the other binary in a strong way"? I'm trying to include a character like that in writing as a secondary character, but my gender is static and I don't know what that experience is like, so I would rather not work from secondary sources. Or if I have been misled, I need to know that too. PM-able.

*raises hand* My gender changes around a lot, and while I'm most often some nonbinary gender, I'm also frequently a man and occasionally a woman. Feel free to PM me your questions. :smallsmile:

[Heliomance]

Hey, is there anybody around who is strongly genderfluid, as in "sense of gender wanders and spends substantial amounts of time in one or the other binary in a strong way"? I'm trying to include a character like that in writing as a secondary character, but my gender is static and I don't know what that experience is like, so I would rather not work from secondary sources. Or if I have been misled, I need to know that too. PM-able.

Not anymore, but I was for a year or so. Mostly I found it really bloody annoying. I am answer questions, though, if you like

[Dire Moose]

Hey, is there anybody around who is strongly genderfluid, as in "sense of gender wanders and spends substantial amounts of time in one or the other binary in a strong way"? I'm trying to include a character like that in writing as a secondary character, but my gender is static and I don't know what that experience is like, so I would rather not work from secondary sources. Or if I have been misled, I need to know that too. PM-able.
I’m actually like that, and you can PM me.

[TaiLiu]

Does anyone else think we should maybe update the list of Topical Consultants? I was there when it was first constructed, so my name is on it, and once in a blue moon, I'll get a message. But the list is severely outdated, and a lot of people on it aren't here anymore. I figured a fresh list might be helpful for those who might seek consultation in the future.

[Lentrax]

It might be a good idea.

Perhaps for the next thread, we just delete everyone off the list, then ask who wants to be on it?

[Dire Moose]

Well, I’m willing to volunteer for non-binary advice.

[TaiLiu]

Perhaps for the next thread, we just delete everyone off the list, then ask who wants to be on it?
That's a good idea. My only concern would be the speed of this thread - it might be a very long while before we'll get to do it.

Well, I’m willing to volunteer for non-binary advice.
Nice!

[Mystic Muse]

I can provide general support.

[Lentrax]

True, but so long as we remember having this conversation, we can remember to bring the topic up again as we approach page 50 here. Give folks a chance to get used to it, to volunteer if they want to, or to even recall we have such a list.

[137beth]

It might be a good idea.

Perhaps for the next thread, we just delete everyone off the list, then ask who wants to be on it?

I think a better solution would be to delete only people who are inactive. Say, remove everyone who hasn't logged on in at least six months?

[Algeh]

I think a better solution would be to delete only people who are inactive. Say, remove everyone who hasn't logged on in at least six months?

Maybe PM anyone who doesn't mention whether or not they want to be in the list anymore in this thread, but who is still logging in somewhat regularly to the site/posting elsewhere on the board? It's possible for people to be still on the board but going through a place of not being able to be particularly supportive right now, and those are the active people who are least likely to be watching this thread to see that we're updating the contact list and know to post here about being taken off.

[Lentrax]

That’s a lot of messages. Frankly, it would just be easier for those of us who are still active here to post that we still want to be on the list. Plus, with the folks that are active elsewhere on the boards but not here have reasons for staying away, and would likely appreciate not having raw memories being brought up.

[Kesnit]

I'm good to stay on the list

[Lycunadari]

I'm also still here, I can do advice on being genderqueer/genderfluid/nonbinary, (grey)asexuality and bi/pansexuality.

[Lissou]

I'm happy to consult for polyamory.

[Eldest]

I can still talk about polyamory, pansexuality/bisexuality, and the basics, and can add trans stuff to that.

[DocWoollybear]

Hey everyone! I've been lurking this thread for a while, and I just wanted to pop in and say hi. I figured out that I'm trans a few months ago, and started coming out to my family back in January. I've slowly started acquiring my new wardrobe, and I have my first laser appointment tomorrow!

I'd also be willing to consult on Bi and trans stuff. This thread made me feel less isolated when I was grappling with my identity, so I'd love to pay it forward :smallbiggrin:

[Lentrax]

Well, DocWoolybear, allow me to welcome you into the thread with open arms, and offers of cake!

[Heliomance]

I HAVE A SURGERY DATE! AFTER SIX YEARS, I'M FINALLY THERE! ONE MORE MONTH, AND I'M AT THE FINISH LINE! AAAAAAHHHHH!
(small letters)

[Domino Quartz]

I HAVE A SURGERY DATE! AFTER SIX YEARS, I'M FINALLY THERE! ONE MORE MONTH, AND I'M AT THE FINISH LINE! AAAAAAHHHHH!
(small letters)

Yay for you!!

[Mystic Muse]

I HAVE A SURGERY DATE! AFTER SIX YEARS, I'M FINALLY THERE! ONE MORE MONTH, AND I'M AT THE FINISH LINE! AAAAAAHHHHH!
(small letters)

Congratulations!

[Lissou]

Woot! Finally, after all the wait and the delays! This is great :D

[Dire Moose]

I will volunteer more specifically to discuss the following topics:

Homosexuality
Bisexuality/Pansexuality
Non-binary topics, including being a gender, genderfluid etc.
Hormone replacement therapy
Figuring out sexual orientation and gender identity

[Recherché]

So today I got called a "man hating narcissist" and "special snowflake" for the audacity of requesting that straight cis guys and heterosexual couples to please stop listing themselves as single women seeking women on Tinder. On one hand the insults are so ridiculous that they're laughable. On the other hand it still hurts y'know.

[Unavenger]

So today I got called a "man hating narcissist" and "special snowflake" for the audacity of requesting that straight cis guys and heterosexual couples to please stop listing themselves as single women seeking women on Tinder. On one hand the insults are so ridiculous that they're laughable. On the other hand it still hurts y'know.

"Stop pretending to be lesbians plz?"
"OH MY GOD YOU MUST HATE MEN!"

How do their minds even work?

[TerrickTerran]

Congratulations Heliomance.

[Recherché]

"Stop pretending to be lesbians plz?"
"OH MY GOD YOU MUST HATE MEN!"

How do their minds even work?

Apparently I can just swipe no on the heterosexual couples and men but my comparison that this would be comparable to large numbers of gay men setting their gender as female to seek out potentially closeted gay men is completely out of the ball park.

[Comrade]

straight cis guys ... listing themselves as single women seeking women on Tinder.

... is that actually something people do? Why? What's their gameplan? 'Hey, I couldn't get any matches with women who are interested in men, maybe it's time to try something new'?

[Eldest]

... is that actually something people do? Why? What's their gameplan? 'Hey, I couldn't get any matches with women who are interested in men, maybe it's time to try something new'?

The het couple looking for a woman for threesomes while she doesn't date anybody else and only does the stuff with them is enough of a stereotype that it's nicknamed unicorn polyamory. That's probably what that is. Single men listing themselves as single women is new and even worse. :smallbiggrin:

[Recherché]

... is that actually something people do? Why? What's their gameplan? 'Hey, I couldn't get any matches with women who are interested in men, maybe it's time to try something new'?

Not only is it their game plan but more than a third of the people I see on Tinder are men or heterosexual couples. My settings are for single women only. I might be a wee bit salty about this.

[Astrella]

I HAVE A SURGERY DATE! AFTER SIX YEARS, I'M FINALLY THERE! ONE MORE MONTH, AND I'M AT THE FINISH LINE! AAAAAAHHHHH!
(small letters)

Aaah, congrats! If you need support or advice before or after you can always send me a message if needed.


Not only is it their game plan but more than a third of the people I see on Tinder are men or heterosexual couples. My settings are for single women only. I might be a wee bit salty about this.

Understandably so. :/

[Lentrax]

So...

A while ago, during a conversation on dysphoria, I said that I don’t experience it the same way that some others talked about.

But yesterday. Yesterday, I was shaving, which involves a lot of looking at myself in the mirror. And what I saw there was enough to make my physically ill. For the first time, I was sick of seeing me in the mirror, and I was so depressed for the rest of the day that I almost couldn’t go to work.

It made me realize how much I need therapy, but I called around, and either I can’t get the help I need and want, or it’s too expensive, even with my insurance. Same thing with online counseling. Just too expensive.

And that hit me worse. That I can’t even afford to take care of myself when now I know that I need it.

I just... I don’t know what to do...

[Liquor Box]

Not only is it their game plan but more than a third of the people I see on Tinder are men or heterosexual couples. My settings are for single women only. I might be a wee bit salty about this.

Can't you see their picture, and therefore see that they are men. Or do the dress up as women, or use fake photos or something?

[Recherché]

Can't you see their picture, and therefore see that they are men. Or do the dress up as women, or use fake photos or something?

They're plainly men and heterosexual couples in their pictures and they have masculine names and will even say they're men/het couples in their profiles. They just list themselves as women seeking women for the computer so that they show up as matches for queer women

[Liquor Box]

They're plainly men and heterosexual couples in their pictures and they have masculine names and will even say they're men/het couples in their profiles. They just list themselves as women seeking women for the computer so that they show up as matches for queer women

Why do they do that? Surely women seeking women would simply scan right past them?

[Lissou]

Why do they do that? Surely women seeking women would simply scan right past them?

That's the mystery, but they do that. Not just on Tinder, but pretty much on any online dating or hooking up platform.

[Liquor Box]

That's the mystery, but they do that. Not just on Tinder, but pretty much on any online dating or hooking up platform.

It must be in the hopes that a woman who is filtering for other woman will change their mind on seeing the man's profile. I would imagine it doesn't have a very high success rate, but maybe it happens sometimes.

[Lissou]

It must be in the hopes that a woman who is filtering for other woman will change their mind on seeing the man's profile. I would imagine it doesn't have a very high success rate, but maybe it happens sometimes.

I think it's just guys trying to widen their net? I have a profile on OK Cupid that I keep even though I'm not looking for a partner because my partners link to it. So it's set on "looking for friends" only. I should only show in searched for people looking for friends. Yet, until they changed the way messages are sent (not clear on how), I would get messages consisting in something like "Hi, wanna have sex?" and nothing else.

I guess they figure the more they try the higher their chances?

[Mith]

I know I am not a regular here, but I just want to share that I saw a bank ad that had a lesbian couple as the "photogenic stock couple" banner without drawing any special attention to the fact that they were doing so. I thought that was awesome.

To be fair, it was subtle enough that considering how much I care about banner ads (none), I could have missed others. But it's the first non LGBTQ2S targeted representation that I have seen in common advertising.

[Recherché]

I've also noticed that a lot of these guys seem to think that lesbian women are actually bi.

[Potato_Priest]

I've also noticed that a lot of these guys seem to think that lesbian women are actually bi.

Hmm, well that would certainly explain their inefficient pattern of listing themselves. Still doesn't explain the couples though.

[Iruka]

Hmm, well that would certainly explain their inefficient pattern of listing themselves. Still doesn't explain the couples though.

Looking for some kind of threesome arrangement, I guess.

[Recherché]

Yup, they're pretty much always looking for a threesome relationship of some kind. And usually being pretty damn offensive about it. I'm poly and not completely opposed to dating men (just not my normal thing). The unicorn hunters still creep me the hell out.

[Liquor Box]

I think it's just guys trying to widen their net? I have a profile on OK Cupid that I keep even though I'm not looking for a partner because my partners link to it. So it's set on "looking for friends" only. I should only show in searched for people looking for friends. Yet, until they changed the way messages are sent (not clear on how), I would get messages consisting in something like "Hi, wanna have sex?" and nothing else.

I guess they figure the more they try the higher their chances?

Yeah, I'm familiar with the scattergun approach, and I think it is quite effective. But I though you'd still aim it in vaguely the right direction.

Maybe from time to time they do find a girl who had been looking for a girl, but decides to go for a guy on the spur of the moment.

[ve4grm]

I know I am not a regular here, but I just want to share that I saw a bank ad that had a lesbian couple as the "photogenic stock couple" banner without drawing any special attention to the fact that they were doing so. I thought that was awesome.

To be fair, it was subtle enough that considering how much I care about banner ads (none), I could have missed others. But it's the first non LGBTQ2S targeted representation that I have seen in common advertising.

There was a comedy sketch on Conan last week for valentine's day that cut between three couples, one of which was a lesbian couple. No special attention was paid, they were just another couple. It was nice to see.

I also saw an ad for for a Canadian store recently that used a pair of gay men as their "photogenic couple" which was cool.

[halfeye]

Yeah, I'm familiar with the scattergun approach, and I think it is quite effective. But I though you'd still aim it in vaguely the right direction.

Maybe from time to time they do find a girl who had been looking for a girl, but decides to go for a guy on the spur of the moment.
It's basically spam, they want one, if they have to piss off a million to find that one, so what? it doesn't cost them anything.

[TaiLiu]

True, but so long as we remember having this conversation, we can remember to bring the topic up again as we approach page 50 here. Give folks a chance to get used to it, to volunteer if they want to, or to even recall we have such a list.
That's very true. My concern is just that it'll take a real long time, since these kinds of threads have slowed down over the years, and people are always gonna be in need of help. I guess I'm trying to argue that we should update it sooner rather than later, so the folk that need it can have it sooner rather than later.

I can provide general support.

I'm good to stay on the list

I'm also still here, I can do advice on being genderqueer/genderfluid/nonbinary, (grey)asexuality and bi/pansexuality.

I'm happy to consult for polyamory.

I can still talk about polyamory, pansexuality/bisexuality, and the basics, and can add trans stuff to that.

I'd also be willing to consult on Bi and trans stuff. This thread made me feel less isolated when I was grappling with my identity, so I'd love to pay it forward :smallbiggrin:

I will volunteer more specifically to discuss the following topics:

Homosexuality
Bisexuality/Pansexuality
Non-binary topics, including being a gender, genderfluid etc.
Hormone replacement therapy
Figuring out sexual orientation and gender identity
Nice! Really cool to see such a large list of volunteers. :smallbiggrin:

Hey everyone! I've been lurking this thread for a while, and I just wanted to pop in and say hi. I figured out that I'm trans a few months ago, and started coming out to my family back in January. I've slowly started acquiring my new wardrobe, and I have my first laser appointment tomorrow!
Hey, DocWoollybear! Super glad things are going well for you!

I HAVE A SURGERY DATE! AFTER SIX YEARS, I'M FINALLY THERE! ONE MORE MONTH, AND I'M AT THE FINISH LINE! AAAAAAHHHHH!
(small letters)
Congrats, Heliomance!

So...

A while ago, during a conversation on dysphoria, I said that I don’t experience it the same way that some others talked about.

But yesterday. Yesterday, I was shaving, which involves a lot of looking at myself in the mirror. And what I saw there was enough to make my physically ill. For the first time, I was sick of seeing me in the mirror, and I was so depressed for the rest of the day that I almost couldn’t go to work.

It made me realize how much I need therapy, but I called around, and either I can’t get the help I need and want, or it’s too expensive, even with my insurance. Same thing with online counseling. Just too expensive.

And that hit me worse. That I can’t even afford to take care of myself when now I know that I need it.

I just... I don’t know what to do...
Sorry to hear that, Lentrax. I think I know how that feels like, and it really, really sucks. Are there any trans support groups around you? Sometimes it's helpful to talk to people who've dealt with similar situations, even if they can't provide therapy proper.

[Lycunadari]

Since the beginning of this year, it is possible to get a third gender marker here in Germany, D for "diverse", and if you change your gender marker to d, you can also change your name. Sounds all great - but it's exclusively for biologically intersex people, you need a doctor's note confirming that you have a "irregularity of sex development". If you're nonbinary, you're out of luck.
And it's killing me. Before, I could sort of ignore that I'm legally still my AGAB, while hoping that one day I would be able to change it. But now I'm constantly reminded that it is possible - just not for me. I see job listings looking for [job] (m/w/d) that were [job] (m/w) before, I read articles about the first people in [city] who changed their gender marker to D, and I want to be happy about it but it's making me incredibly depressed. We were so close, the people who fought for this, all the trans and intersex organisations, they all tried to make it possible for NB people, and when the court ruling decided that we get a new gender marker, I was so hopeful. We were so close, but ****ty politicians decided that we can't have people deciding their own gender so now only intersex people get to be "diverse".
And I'm just... I feel crushed. This new law has torn open the old wound that is existing in a cissexist society just to rub salt into it. I'm not "trans enough" to change my name with the "transsexual law" (also that's extremely expensive), I'm not intersex so the new law is useless for me, I'm just a confused, broken freak. I can try changing my name like a cis person could, but you need a "significant reason" for it and you can only change your name to one of your assigned gender that way; so I have to hope that being NB is a significant enough reason, and that I'm allowed to have my chosen neutral names. And I AM going to try it, because I can't live like this, but even starting to write the application makes me extremely anxious because I'm so scared of being denied.
All of this has seriously trigged my depression, I was doing so much better the last couple of months, but now I'm back in that pit of hopelessness, I've become suicidal again, I'm close to starting selfharming again, I haven't cried so much since my grandma died a year ago... I just... I'm so tired, and I'm not coping well with any of this.

[Lissou]

@Juniper
*hugs*
I wish I could help more than just provide support. Hopefully now that a new gender marker is in place it can be expanded eventually. This really sucks though! I'm glad you have another way to change your name.

[Aveline]

Since the beginning of this year, it is possible to get a third gender marker here in Germany, D for "diverse", and if you change your gender marker to d, you can also change your name. Sounds all great - but it's exclusively for biologically intersex people, you need a doctor's note confirming that you have a "irregularity of sex development". If you're nonbinary, you're out of luck.
And it's killing me. Before, I could sort of ignore that I'm legally still my AGAB, while hoping that one day I would be able to change it. But now I'm constantly reminded that it is possible - just not for me. I see job listings looking for [job] (m/w/d) that were [job] (m/w) before, I read articles about the first people in [city] who changed their gender marker to D, and I want to be happy about it but it's making me incredibly depressed. We were so close, the people who fought for this, all the trans and intersex organisations, they all tried to make it possible for NB people, and when the court ruling decided that we get a new gender marker, I was so hopeful. We were so close, but ****ty politicians decided that we can't have people deciding their own gender so now only intersex people get to be "diverse".
And I'm just... I feel crushed. This new law has torn open the old wound that is existing in a cissexist society just to rub salt into it. I'm not "trans enough" to change my name with the "transsexual law" (also that's extremely expensive), I'm not intersex so the new law is useless for me, I'm just a confused, broken freak. I can try changing my name like a cis person could, but you need a "significant reason" for it and you can only change your name to one of your assigned gender that way; so I have to hope that being NB is a significant enough reason, and that I'm allowed to have my chosen neutral names. And I AM going to try it, because I can't live like this, but even starting to write the application makes me extremely anxious because I'm so scared of being denied.
All of this has seriously trigged my depression, I was doing so much better the last couple of months, but now I'm back in that pit of hopelessness, I've become suicidal again, I'm close to starting selfharming again, I haven't cried so much since my grandma died a year ago... I just... I'm so tired, and I'm not coping well with any of this.

Things may differ between processes in our respective places of living, but I have a positive attestation from when I went through the same sort of thing.

I live in rural United States, and in my jurisdiction, anyone who wants to change their gender marker is, nominally, required to provide a surgeon's letter which certifies a particular procedure. I do not desire this procedure. I was afraid I would never be able to change my gender marker.

When I eventually located and met an endocrinologist in a neighboring state, I talked to her about this concern, and she simply... printed a template letter with my former name on it, basically authorizing me to be "officially" transgender.

Regarding name change, I was required to purchase a classified advertisement in the local newspaper, publishing my intent to change my name from this to that. I did so, and got an affidavit of publication.

Then I appointed a court date with the notary, and met a judge, who saw I "met" the requirements for a change in gender marker, and intended to change my name, as is my right. He asked me if I was sure I wanted to do this; I said yes; then he struck the gavel and issued me... well, basically a warrant, stating that I am officially a woman, now named such and such, and all authorities - including Vital Records - must revise their records in accordance.

I brought all my documents to the Department of Motor Vehicles, presented my documents, and asked for a revised license. They gave me one. Now my authoritative identification says F for female, and gives my true name which I chose.

Here are the morals:
There are doctors who trained specifically to address your problem. They want to help you, and they have the authority to do so. Authority propagates. Legal arbiters will submit to a doctor's letter. Record-keepers know they aren't to treat their work subjectively. There is no active opposition to your specific effort to change your identification.

So, just go through the formalities. If my experience is any indication, they work in your favor.

[Lentrax]

That's very true. My concern is just that it'll take a real long time, since these kinds of threads have slowed down over the years, and people are always gonna be in need of help. I guess I'm trying to argue that we should update it sooner rather than later, so the folk that need it can have it sooner rather than later.

So, in the interest of having it out there for everyone to have time to find and keep it relevant, I have made a new thread, here (
Sorry to hear that, Lentrax. I think I know how that feels like, and it really, really sucks. Are there any trans support groups around you? Sometimes it's helpful to talk to people who've dealt with similar situations, even if they can't provide therapy proper.

Sadly, I don't think such a pace exists where I am. But I will keep looking and hoping and see what I can do.

[137beth]

I'd be willing to be listed in the OP as someone who can talk about asexual and aromantic issues.

[Eldest]

So, in the interest of having it out there for everyone to have time to find and keep it relevant, I have made a new thread, here ([QUOTE=TaiLiu;23728600) for everyone to be able to add themselves. That way, even those who may not pop in here like they used to, have somewhere to say that they are still willing to help out, even if they do't want to come back in here for whatever reason.

Wrong link. This is the one you wanted. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?581847-LGBTAI-itp-Updating-support-lists)

[Lentrax]

Huh. Well, thanks, Eldest.

[CWater]

Since the beginning of this year, it is possible to get a third gender marker here in Germany, D for "diverse", and if you change your gender marker to d, you can also change your name. Sounds all great - but it's exclusively for biologically intersex people, you need a doctor's note confirming that you have a "irregularity of sex development". If you're nonbinary, you're out of luck.
And it's killing me. Before, I could sort of ignore that I'm legally still my AGAB, while hoping that one day I would be able to change it. But now I'm constantly reminded that it is possible - just not for me. I see job listings looking for [job] (m/w/d) that were [job] (m/w) before, I read articles about the first people in [city] who changed their gender marker to D, and I want to be happy about it but it's making me incredibly depressed. We were so close, the people who fought for this, all the trans and intersex organisations, they all tried to make it possible for NB people, and when the court ruling decided that we get a new gender marker, I was so hopeful. We were so close, but ****ty politicians decided that we can't have people deciding their own gender so now only intersex people get to be "diverse".
And I'm just... I feel crushed. This new law has torn open the old wound that is existing in a cissexist society just to rub salt into it. I'm not "trans enough" to change my name with the "transsexual law" (also that's extremely expensive), I'm not intersex so the new law is useless for me, I'm just a confused, broken freak. I can try changing my name like a cis person could, but you need a "significant reason" for it and you can only change your name to one of your assigned gender that way; so I have to hope that being NB is a significant enough reason, and that I'm allowed to have my chosen neutral names. And I AM going to try it, because I can't live like this, but even starting to write the application makes me extremely anxious because I'm so scared of being denied.
All of this has seriously trigged my depression, I was doing so much better the last couple of months, but now I'm back in that pit of hopelessness, I've become suicidal again, I'm close to starting selfharming again, I haven't cried so much since my grandma died a year ago... I just... I'm so tired, and I'm not coping well with any of this.

*hugs*

I'm sorry it sucks where you live. I know it's a huge hassle, but have you considered moving? I believe there are a couple of countries now that allow one to be officially enby.

[Lentrax]

I have a counselor appointment tomorrow. She does a lot of LGBT+ work, and asked for my preferred name when I set the appointment. So hopefully this time I have someone who doesn’t think I’m not really trans and just can’t deal with my bullying issue.

[Dragonquetra]

Today is coming out day for me. I disclosed it privately to a few people only for those people to eventually cross me and out me against my desire. I'm not hiding myself anymore. I can't take the pain of hiding and I no longer want to suffer any anguish over having to be hidden in the closet.

I'm transgender. Male-to-female.

For the sake of living a healthier life and being healthier in mind and body coming out is a necessity. I've taken to over-eating in the past from being in the closet. No more tears, no more pain.

I want to live a healthier life. It starts with being truthful.

[Lycunadari]

I have a counselor appointment tomorrow. She does a lot of LGBT+ work, and asked for my preferred name when I set the appointment. So hopefully this time I have someone who doesn’t think I’m not really trans and just can’t deal with my bullying issue.
How did it go?
(Anyone who tries to tell you you're not actually trans should shut up and possibly step on a lego <.<)


Today is coming out day for me. I disclosed it privately to a few people only for those people to eventually cross me and out me against my desire. I'm not hiding myself anymore. I can't take the pain of hiding and I no longer want to suffer any anguish over having to be hidden in the closet.

I'm transgender. Male-to-female.

For the sake of living a healthier life and being healthier in body coming out is a necessity. I've taken to over-eating in the past from being in the closet. No more tears, no more pain.

I want to live a healthier life. It starts with being truthful.

Coming out can be a huge relief, but it sucks when it happens against our will or before we are ready. But I hope everything will go smoothly now!

----
Update on the name/gender marker change: I did some more research about what exactly the new law covers and also talked about it with my therapist. There's a legal loophole that technically makes it okay for non-intersex trans people to use the new law as long as we have a doctor who writes a note that we have a "variation of gender/sex development". My therapist strongly recommended me to use that option, considering how bad this whole situation has been for my mental health. So I am actually going to do this.
... if everything goes as planned, I might have legally changed my name and gender marker in less than a month. :smalleek::smallbiggrin:

[Ravens_cry]

----
Update on the name/gender marker change: I did some more research about what exactly the new law covers and also talked about it with my therapist. There's a legal loophole that technically makes it okay for non-intersex trans people to use the new law as long as we have a doctor who writes a note that we have a "variation of gender/sex development". My therapist strongly recommended me to use that option, considering how bad this whole situation has been for my mental health. So I am actually going to do this.
... if everything goes as planned, I might have legally changed my name and gender marker in less than a month. :smalleek::smallbiggrin:
Fingers, toes, and eyes crossed, Lycunadari. I wish you all the best in this.

[Dragonquetra]

Coming out can be a huge relief, but it sucks when it happens against our will or before we are ready. But I hope everything will go smoothly now! I'm still pre-everything and not sure when I'll be able to start moving forward with changes, but at least I can be myself more freely and live a lifestyle that agrees with my inner truth.

[Lentrax]

How did it go?
(Anyone who tries to tell you you're not actually trans should shut up and possibly step on a lego <.<)

It went great. I walked in, and she greeted me with my preferred name (Ashleigh). We started talking, and I think it went well. Granted, we spent my hour talking about my kids, because that is a huge block in my road right now, but I don’t think she is going to gatekeep.


I'm still pre-everything and not sure when I'll be able to start moving forward with changes, but at least I can be myself more freely and live a lifestyle that agrees with my inner truth.
Good to hear. And if you ever need help, or an ear, or anything, we are all here to support you.

[Heliomance]

4 days to go until surgery! It's happening this Friday! *screams*

[Domino Quartz]

4 days to go until surgery! It's happening this Friday! *screams*

Yaaay! Congratulations! I hope it goes well.

[Lentrax]

4 days to go until surgery! It's happening this Friday! *screams*

Congrats, Tamsin! It’s been a long road, and you are so near the end!

[Dire Moose]

4 days to go until surgery! It's happening this Friday! *screams*

Yay Heliomance! I know you had been struggling with setting this up for a while, but congratulations on finally having a date set! Hope it goes well!

[SaintRidley]

Hi everybody. Long time no see.

So. I don't really know how to go about figuring this out for sure for myself, but it's been floating in the back of my mind for several years now and only recently decided to be a surface thing. I'm pretty sure I'm either nonbinary or genderfluid. I haven't told many people yet in real life because I don't have that many I feel comfortable sharing with. I'm also right close up to the end of my PhD, so while I really do think speaking to a gender therapist to talk it out would be good, I simply don't have the time.

I'm also nervous as hell because my partner and I are slowly opening things up in our marriage, and I've got a lunch date with this woman we both happen to have a crush on and I'm really hoping it goes well. I'm okay with whatever outcome - if she's not interested, interested in only me, interested in only my partner, or interested in both of us. I just haven't directly told someone I had a crush on them since high school and I'm feeling super nervous.

[Astrella]

4 days to go until surgery! It's happening this Friday! *screams*

Good luck and a quick recovery! Feel free to message me if you need to vent about recovery stuff or need help or such.

[Heliomance]

Tidying done - I've successfully thrown out my junk

[Unavenger]

Tidying done - I've successfully thrown out my junk

Shojo would be proud.

Anyway, congrats!

[Recherché]

Tidying done - I've successfully thrown out my junk

Congrats on the ultimate KonMari

[Lissou]

Woot! Awesome, Helio!

[Lentrax]

Tidying done - I've successfully thrown out my junk

Glad to hear. Hope the newfound space is to your liking.

[Dragonquetra]

Posted this on Facebook, thought I'd share it here.


Being in denial of being transgender has done a lot to me, notably not being able to love myself. After my father died it's like a switch clicked and I started to process through all the self-loathing and self-hatred. Now that I a know who I am, more accurately, being attuned to the truth that I am female has allowed me love myself. It's not my interests that define me, more it is the pure joy that I feel when I am connected to that wellspring of femininity...that love is what does define me.

[JusticeZero]

How are father/daughter relationships supposed to look?

My dad is trying, he really is, but he's a talentless parent because "don't be like the abusive !!!! who raised me" doesn't give very good guidance on what TO do. He cobbled together a vague, non-toxic idea of how to relate to a son from I have no idea where and subjected it to me inflexibly, ignoring all indicators that it might not be working.

Now? He's totally off the edge of the map. I'm incredibly frustrated because his wife just died, he wants me around more, he's trying to be my father, I want my daddy, and the two are NOT the same thing. I feel like there's some huge stuff that's just... missing, and I don't know what or how to explain any of it. It's really frustrating trying to visit, and I want to make things a bit better.

[Kesnit]

How are father/daughter relationships supposed to look?

However you and your father want it to be.

[Lissou]

Yeah, can't help you with father/daughter relationships, I only hear from my father on Christmas and on my birthday (and he hears from me on Christmas and his birthday), so...

[Razade]

Now? He's totally off the edge of the map. I'm incredibly frustrated because his wife just died, he wants me around more, he's trying to be my father, I want my daddy, and the two are NOT the same thing. I feel like there's some huge stuff that's just... missing, and I don't know what or how to explain any of it. It's really frustrating trying to visit, and I want to make things a bit better.

You're going to have to really clarify the bolded. Because honestly this all just comes off as....well rather selfish honestly. His wife just passed away and he wants you around because he loves you and values your support. Sure, there's things going on on your end but honestly? This isn't about you. You and him and this new wrinkle can wait. Should wait. Until he's had some time to grieve and to right himself. I understand you want to be comfortable and that surely will make him more comfortable but maybe ask him what you can do to help that?

To the rest...there's no handbook on how to be a parent. I don't know you or him or your relationship but the way you describe it really rather rubs me the wrong way. Taking a pot shot at your pop for being a "talentless" father...just makes you look bad. At least you had a father and at least he tried and good on him for trying to be a better parent than he got. Parents can only do the best they do and they mess up from time to time. That's just how it goes. The others are being rather gentle about this but honestly...I think you should cut your father some slack. You're not particularly entitled to have your father and your relationship with your father to be the way you want. There's two people involved.

I don't know if you've sat down with him and discussed any of this with him because you haven't indicated you have or haven't. The only real solution is to suggest you do in fact do that. If the answer is he can't fulfill the role you want him to...I guess that will be a shame. But he doesn't owe it to you.

[Themrys]

How are father/daughter relationships supposed to look?

My dad is trying, he really is, but he's a talentless parent because "don't be like the abusive !!!! who raised me" doesn't give very good guidance on what TO do. He cobbled together a vague, non-toxic idea of how to relate to a son from I have no idea where and subjected it to me inflexibly, ignoring all indicators that it might not be working.

Now? He's totally off the edge of the map. I'm incredibly frustrated because his wife just died, he wants me around more, he's trying to be my father, I want my daddy, and the two are NOT the same thing. I feel like there's some huge stuff that's just... missing, and I don't know what or how to explain any of it. It's really frustrating trying to visit, and I want to make things a bit better.

It would be great if you could explain the situation for people who are new to this thread. For example, is this your biological father, since you seem to miss your daddy and call his wife "his wife" instead of "my mother".

But regardless, asking what it is "supposed to look like" is a question that you either ask your therapist (if you have been abused so severely that you actually don't know which behaviours are abusive), or don't ask at all.

If I told you that a father is supposed to favour his sons over his daughters and all but ignore a daughter, would you then happily ask your father to ignore you most of the time and treat you as inferior the rest of the time? Would you then be happy with that kind of relationships because it is how things are supposed to be?

[halfeye]

If I told you that a father is supposed to favour his sons over his daughters and all but ignore a daughter, would you then happily ask your father to ignore you most of the time and treat you as inferior the rest of the time? Would you then be happy with that kind of relationships because it is how things are supposed to be?

That wasn't how my father was.

People are all different.

All parents are amateurs.

[JusticeZero]

is this your biological father, since you seem to miss your daddy and call his wife "his wife" instead of "my mother". Biological father, stepmother. It's mostly that our relationship was pretty peacefully dysfunctional and ended up with us not talking much, and he keeps doing the same things that end up with us not talking very well. He deserves better, but I never knew how to respond to him, and now it's painfully obvious because I have to. It's a blend of me trying to support him in his time of need and wanting to pull my hair out when he gets really confused on how to talk to me and defaults to, of all things, dry history lectures. I had to listen to five hours of Napoleonic history last time I was there, and I could barely get a word in edgewise to qualify as 'talking'.

[Algeh]

Biological father, stepmother. It's mostly that our relationship was pretty peacefully dysfunctional and ended up with us not talking much, and he keeps doing the same things that end up with us not talking very well. He deserves better, but I never knew how to respond to him, and now it's painfully obvious because I have to. It's a blend of me trying to support him in his time of need and wanting to pull my hair out when he gets really confused on how to talk to me and defaults to, of all things, dry history lectures. I had to listen to five hours of Napoleonic history last time I was there, and I could barely get a word in edgewise to qualify as 'talking'.

My dad and I end up having, for want of a better word, "parallel conversations" pretty often. He will tell me in great deal about how his golf game is doing, and I will reply with equal detail about how my own hobbies are doing, and we will just continue our halves of the conversations as though they had something to do with each other. It is awkward as all get out, but I think he really likes talking about golf and I have absolutely nothing to say on the subject.

It might go better if you try to relate to each other in the form of some kind of structured activity rather than just trying to have a really long conversation with no obvious "hooks". My dad is too competitive for me to enjoy playing board games or most video games with, but maybe you'll have more luck with yours. Dad and I mostly watch tv together and talk during the commercial breaks or between episodes, which I would not say is ideal but gives us chances for short conversations about things we both have something to say about if we talk about the show we were just watching or tactics for whatever sport is on. (I do not follow sports the rest of the time, but at this point I have a decent tactical grasp of the 5 or so he watches most often so I can have short conversations about them.)

My dad never really did have a grasp on the whole "daughter" or possibly even "kid rather than small adult" thing when I was growing up though (highlights include the time we played most of Leisure Suit Larry 3 together while I was in elementary school on the general theory that we played all Sierra games as a team since it was helpful to have a second person keeping the map/notes and helping brainstorm the puzzles), so I'm not sure I'm a helpful baseline.

[Heliomance]

Happy trans day of Visibility, all. I was visible outside the house/hospital for the first time since surgery! I think I overdid it a bit though, and I am crashing hard

[Heliomance]

I just looked at myself naked in the mirror for the first time since surgery, and I'm genuinely crying with happiness! That's really me! I did it! I got there at last!

[Lycunadari]

Congrats, Helio! It's great that you finally got there after having to wait so long! :smallsmile:

[Lissou]

I am SO happy for you, Helio! It's been such a ride for you, it's a relief it finally went somewhere and you can be yourself and be happy :)

[The Succubus]

I just looked at myself naked in the mirror for the first time since surgery, and I'm genuinely crying with happiness! That's really me! I did it! I got there at last!

I remember when you started that journey, so long ago. Congratulations on making it!

[Lentrax]

I just looked at myself naked in the mirror for the first time since surgery, and I'm genuinely crying with happiness! That's really me! I did it! I got there at last!

Congratulations! You have made your dream a reality.

Thank you for letting us be there with you on your journey.

[137beth]

Congratulations Heliomance!

[Kesnit]

I just looked at myself naked in the mirror for the first time since surgery, and I'm genuinely crying with happiness! That's really me! I did it! I got there at last!

CONGRATS!!! I'm crying happy tears for you. This is such an amazing accomplishment

[Xihirli]

I just looked at myself naked in the mirror for the first time since surgery, and I'm genuinely crying with happiness! That's really me! I did it! I got there at last!

Hey congratulations!


Been awhile since I've been here.
I've finally nailed down my sexuality at pan upon falling for a man before I ever joined GitP with an nb and lady just recently.
I've scheduled some appointments with Hormone people and I have a decently wide assortment of clothing I can love myself in.
As far as my gay life is going I'm at my peak.

[Lycunadari]

Guess who changed hir name today and is now also officially, legally, nonbinary! :biggrin:

[Xihirli]

Is it you?

[Lycunadari]

You guessed correctly! :smallbiggrin:

[Xihirli]

Woot woot!

Congratulations!

[Florian]

Guess who changed hir name today and is now also officially, legally, nonbinary! :biggrin:

And that while living in the backwaters of our only real conservative ruled state. Congrats, but you could have had it easier.

[Heliomance]

Guess who changed hir name today and is now also officially, legally, nonbinary! :biggrin:

Yay! Go you!

[Dire Moose]

Guess who changed hir name today and is now also officially, legally, nonbinary! :biggrin:

Go you!

Meanwhile, I’m stuck here in Arizona which has no such option...

[KyooTrap]

I get to introduce one of my partners to my dad next month!! I'm really excited and nervous. We might end up meeting his as well since they're in the same state, although it would be a long drive for them. I'm just super gay aaaaa

[Domino Quartz]

I get to introduce one of my partners to my dad next month!! I'm really excited and nervous. We might end up meeting his as well since they're in the same state, although it would be a long drive for them. I'm just super gay aaaaa

Congratulations! I really hope it goes well for you. I'm sure it will. I wish I had your courage.

On another note. To all the transgender/nonbinary people on here (or even just lurking) - You are awesome people, for surviving this long in this world of ours. Keep going! You can do it! I believe in you! I am totally serious on this point. I absolutely support you, and I know for certain that other people here do as well. The world would be the lesser for your absence.

[ve4grm]

On another note. To all the transgender/nonbinary people on here (or even just lurking) - You are awesome people, for surviving this long in this world of ours. Keep going! You can do it! I believe in you! I am totally serious on this point. I absolutely support you, and I know for certain that other people here do as well. The world would be the lesser for your absence.

I don't jump in here much, as it's usually not my place except to support people, but as a random cis/straight dude I'll tag my name on this. We sometimes blend in with the haters and bigots, but if you need a supporter from our "side" we're certainly around and will be there if you call. Go you!

We may not always understand fully (how could we without living your life) but we support you and want the best for you!

[GAAD]

Um... Hi!

Some of you may remember me from a couple years ago when I posted more regularly. But uh.

I'm scared.
I'm exited.
I'm a girl.
My name is Lauren.

And I don't know what to tell my family.:smalleek:

I doubt they'll be surprised given I've been training my voice feminine for the last 8 years but still.
I'm seeing a therapist tomorrow, hopefully I'll be able to get me some HRT!

Also I can stop obsessively lurking on threads like this :smalltongue:

[Dire Moose]

Wonderful to hear and good luck in your journey! I know it seems scary and intimidating right now, but just take it one step at a time and try not to stress out too much.

Oh, and since you’re just getting started here, welcome to the thread! Here’s the official hug.

GLOMP!

[Lissou]

Hey Lauren! Welcome back!

[GAAD]

Hey! Thanks. I'm kinda confused and scared about what to do and what to say and what people will think and everything's been turned upside down.

But, I really LIKE it when my friends call me Lauren. I LIKE being called a girl. Deeply. And I can't change that.

So... I guess I have to change other things, so that happens all the time.

I've been stewing for months about "will I regret it" and the only way to be sure is to do it and I've been female online for a full week now and it feels SO NICE. There's a little fuzziness in my chest and a surge of yeswarmth through my body and I will never forget the first time my friend used my name. My name.

You folks understand what I'm getting at, right? Sheesh I need to transition asap says my super cracked dysphoria :smallredface: I feel so... off.

[SkepticalSquid]

Best of luck, Lauren!

I feel like I might be feeling similarly right now. I'm out as nonbinary to my close friends and partner, as well as my immediate family, but the option to seek medical transition has presented itself to me, and I want to try to take it. But I have to tell the rest of my family, and my martial arts sensei, who is like family to me, and I'm not sure how to say it at all. If anyone has advice, I'd love it.

But anyways, I'm very happy for you, and wish you all the best, and I understand what you're saying.

[GAAD]

So I told my family.

My mother is convinced that someone talked me into this and that I’ll come to my senses once I realize how hard this choice to follow this trend is.

My father is in shock. He is refusing to call me anything but deadname his baby boy. At least he didn’t kick me out of the house.

My sister is coming to visit next week and is going to alter a dress for me. Eeeeeee


These are all different responses and I don’t know how to deal with them. Anyone else have similar experiences?

[TerrickTerran]

Good luck, Lauren. It's always hard on parents but hopefully they will eventually accept you.

[Lissou]

I'm glad your sister is supportive! Give your parents some time to realize it's you and spend most of your time with supportive people (online if need be)

[Xihirli]

Getting Estrogen next week!

[GAAD]

Grats sis! Here's hoping I can get that soonish too. I'm jealous :smallbiggrin:

[Dire Moose]

I switched over my body chemistry a year and a half ago. You’re in for an amazing trip.

[Callista]

I still notice that the forums don't have an "other" option for gender. There's still only male, female, intersex, m2f, and f2m. Goshdarnit.

[Togath]

So... has anyone here tried watching a new anime called Sarazanmai? It's three episodes in and fairly weird(and fairly surreal at times), but...
It's looking to have a surprisingly decent portrayal of an LGBTAI+ character. It's this quirky slice of life/boys going through middle school/surreal kappa adventures with butt-souls(which... manages to sort of make sense in context) story that dips into some stuff I don't often see acknowledged or done well in anime.

First off, one of the three main protagonists is gay. Not "look how sexy this yaoi guy is" gay, but what so far seems like a well done depiction of a boy coming to terms with his feelings and sexual orientation. I mean, so far he hasn't actually gotten the courage to tell his crush(one of the other protagonists) how he feels... but we're also only three episodes in at this point.
For other stuff... as a stinger(I think that's the term for an after-credits scene?) it's been revealed that the main boy's little brother uses a wheelchair to get around. Though it seems to have been hinted at that they have trouble walking, but only now confirmed. Again, it seems like a decent portrayal. They're still a happy kid with a fairly normal life even if they need some help getting around.
Finally, because it's like, late-o-clock and I need to sleep and I have been pondering this show waaay too much :smalltongue:; the third of the main trio of protagonists has had some... unusual scenes. His first appearance was him trying to break into a car, and it has pulled surprisingly few punches with the stuff he's involved with since then. (edit: like, when was the last time you saw a realistic depiction of an illegal cannabis farm in anime?)

[AuthorGirl]

Hey all . . . I know I went silent for quite a while but I remember some usernames and I am so glad to see you all again.

[Grytorm]

Hello again. Thinking about it it has been like four or five years since I first felt uncertain about my gender identity. And I have no particular progress to report. Just feeling depressed about it I guess and my utter failure to have figured anything out.

[Dire Moose]

Don’t worry too much about figuring yourself out. As long as you live a happy and fulfilling life, that’s what counts. Spending all the time on finding a label for yourself takes away from simply enjoying life, which is something I have had to learn the hard way. All that time I spent a couple years ago trying to rush things resulted in a lot of mostly pointless wracking my brain and making myself miserable.

[Kesnit]

I am not here because of an issue with my own identity. I am here because a dear friend had a breakdown over the weekend...

I've know Jac for several years, and know she is ace.

For the past 6 years, my wife and I have gone to a Beltane festival. This festival is family friendly, but does have an adult area (called Inter Sanctum, or IS) where workshops are of a more sexual nature. IS also holds a ritual with a sexual theme, and a cabaret where participants can perform in a way they choose - singing, dancing, stripping, etc. IS is all about consent, and consent is pushed VERY HARD.

Since this festival is family friendly, it is not expected that all adults participate in IS. (My mother-in-law has gone with use for several years. She goes to the cabaret some years, but that is all she does with IS.) Last year, we took a friend with us. After a falling out with said friend, we had an available ticket for this year. Jac said she wanted to go to Beltane, and we said yes.

Beltane started Thursday. My wife and MiL went to sleep. (I got very drunk and went to sleep). Jac - who is a night owl - decided to check out the late night event at IS. We learned the next day that "some old men" were groping her. Her viewpoint was "I don't get anything from it, but if they liked it, what is the harm?" Since she was not concerned, I let it go.

Friday night was the IS ritual. My wife and MiL went to sleep. Jac and I went to ritual. In years past, there has been some level of "audience participation" of a non-physical nature before the orgy begins. This year, there was not. Many people - including me and Jac - just left.

And then we got to Saturday night, and all of us went to the cabaret. (My MiL was sitting on the other side of the large tent that is used for IS events.) Jac took a pouch of rum (I didn't find out until later how much), but none of us thought about it since alcohol is allowed in IS. The show started, and Jac continued drinking. She told us later she was drinking after every performance (each a few minutes long), but was also passing the pouch, so I did not realize how much she was drinking. After about an hour, she is crying. With the help of one of the IS Guardians (people who volunteer to watch and make sure everyone is consenting to events), we got Jac out of the tent. And that is when we all learned what was going on in Jac's head.

As I said, Jac is ace. She's always been so matter-of-fact about it that I thought she was adjusted to it. Turns out she isn't. She wants to feel sexual attraction, but cannot. She hoped that by getting really drunk and trying, she could force herself to feel. Obviously, it didn't work, and between alcohol and shame, she lost it. She began crying that she is "stupid" (which we eventually translated as her saying she thinks she is broken) and eventually started to hyperventilate. (Jac has asthma, so breathing issues are a real concern for her.)

We eventually got her back to the cabin and calmed down enough to sleep. By late afternoon Sunday, she was back to normal.

But this leaves me at a loss of what to do. It's clear that Jac needs serious psychological help, but that is not an option for financial reasons. I don't want to just pretend Saturday night didn't happen, but I am totally not qualified to actually do more than just give her emotional support. So I turn to the ace people here. How did you come to terms with what you are? What can I say to help Jac, or at least help her find a support system? (She does not use the Internet much. She does have email, but does not use social media.)

[Lycunadari]

Are there any LGBTQIA+ organisations/communities where you live? They might have an ace group or ace meet-ups she could go to. Meeting other ace people helps a lot, to feel less alone, less broken, to see how other people are living, both those who have fully accepted their sexuality and those who are still struggling. If she uses what's app or Discord, there are probably groups/servers for ace people she could check out, but I sadly don't know any myself.

Additionally, reading about other ace people is also good! Like here (https://****yeahasexual.tumblr.com/tagged/ace+stories/) - it's on tumblr, but she doesn't have to sign up or anything, she can just scroll through the entries and read about other people's experiences (mostly good, but also some sad ones - but that can also help in feeling less alone). Personally, it has helped me a lot to hear from people who are ace and are in happy relationships (both with other ace people and with allo people) because feeling like I'll always be alone is something I struggle with. So maybe that would help her as well. Or, if she's also aromantic (or just generally not interested in relationships) there are also posts by people who are happy with friends and family and who don't feel like they "miss out" or are alone because they don't do sex and romance.

And if she likes books, there's a database about ace and aro characters (http://claudiearseneault.com/?page_id=1320) in books, sortable by stuff like gender of the character, romantic and/or sexual orientation and if the representation is word of god only or if it's actually stated on page. She can also look at this list (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r7AMBX9qJtQOlt7v-Pj46F4u48jkrN_Hjmpyzr8Ob5E/edit#gid=0) - it also includes comics and games and has a bit different information for each entry (like if it's #ownvoices and also includes warnings for negative representation), but it's also shorter. Representation can help a lot.

I hope any of this helps! :smallsmile:

[Aspheric]

Hey Kesnit, being asexual myself, I thought I'd share my thoughts on your friend's situation. I first want to echo Lycunadari's resources, and add The Asexual (http://theasexual.com/). It's a journal with a somewhat formal format, but it mostly consists of ace folks personally thinking through asexuality in a variety of contexts, some of which might be particularly applicable to Jac's situation. It hosts a number of different writers, so I can't advocate for every article, but it's the best resource I know of as an ace person myself.

Everyone experiences asexuality differently, so don't take what I have to say as necessarily lining up with your friend's personal sense of their sexuality. Consider it advice, more than anything.I empathize with Jac's feelings, and I think her anxieties are common among ace people. I definitely feel pressured to express sexual desire when it becomes common in my friend groups, which does lead me into situations sometimes that are uncomfortable (in the awkward way, not the non-consensual way). I can't honestly claim to have a firm grasp on asexuality myself, but what helped me personally was finding ways to hang out in settings/at events that aren't as sexually charged. From your description, you know Jac outside of the festival, so presumably you have met elsewhere? If so, it could help to find other social events to go to with her, that don't necessarily involve the pressure of meeting her own (or someone else's) sexual desires.

Something else to consider is that there are differences between the desires for sexual activity and for romance, and differences between these and the desire of physical intimacy. A problem Jac might be having is that these exchanges are sensually and sexually charged, when she may only desire the former. Given that she was interested in both the IS and Cabaret (at least until she broke down), she may be looking for something that these spaces don't necessarily provide on their own. I'm not really an expert on the differences between the three, but there are articles in The Asexual journal I linked above that discuss differences in sensual and sexual desire, which may prove helpful for her. People often conflate the two (and non-ace, non-queer people can be pretty dismissive that this is a real nuance of desire), but since you seem willing to support her, you may consider bringing this up.

That said, Jac will need to understand her sexuality on her own terms. It is smart and kind of you to reach out, but this is something that she will need to figure out herself. From the sound of it, you're a supportive friend that she trusts, and your actions strike me as mature and respectful, so kudos for that. You may pass on some or all of what is said here if she welcomes your support, though I'd be careful about overloading her with information if she's not too keen on hearing it. It does seem like she could use the help, but I wouldn't necessarily say its psychological help she needs. From the sound of it, she may not know anyone else who's ace, and that can be a large source of her problems, especially if the local LGBT groups don't demonstrate explicit support for ace people (and a lot of them don't).
Anywho, hope this helps! Again, I'm not an expert, and this is only coming from my own experiences, so take it as you will. I hope Jac finds what she needs, one way or another.

[Heliomance]

Found out this evening that someone I count as a friend is emotionally abusive and predatory :/

It's really difficult to reconcile. I believe the person making the claims, they have no reason that I can see to lie, and it matches with vague whispers I'd heard before. But it's hard to believe on an emotional level - I've never personally seen any of the behaviour in question, so it's a purely intellectual "I have heard from a source I believe that this person has done bad things" going up against an emotional "but I like them! Surely not!" and facts don't fare well against feelings. :smallsigh:

[Chen]

Found out this evening that someone I count as a friend is emotionally abusive and predatory :/

It's really difficult to reconcile. I believe the person making the claims, they have no reason that I can see to lie, and it matches with vague whispers I'd heard before. But it's hard to believe on an emotional level - I've never personally seen any of the behaviour in question, so it's a purely intellectual "I have heard from a source I believe that this person has done bad things" going up against an emotional "but I like them! Surely not!" and facts don't fare well against feelings. :smallsigh:

Its rare you’ll find “perfect” people. People make mistakes. Forgiveness or acceptance depends on context I’d say. A single instance of something bad in someone’s past may be forgiveable. Continued bad acts maybe not. Definitely a difficult situation.

[Heliomance]

Its rare you’ll find “perfect” people. People make mistakes. Forgiveness or acceptance depends on context I’d say. A single instance of something bad in someone’s past may be forgiveable. Continued bad acts maybe not. Definitely a difficult situation.

Oh no, it's ongoing and persistent behaviour, and there's a lot of people going "that makes a lot of sense and gels with things I've heard before" about it.

[halfeye]

Oh no, it's ongoing and persistent behaviour, and there's a lot of people going "that makes a lot of sense and gels with things I've heard before" about it.

Some people are liars. Some liars are terrible at it and get easily found out, others really, really, very much aren't and you might only find out years later. Somebody is lying here, it could be one versus one, with everybody else repeating what they heard, or it might not be, you need to know what people actually saw, not what they heard somebody else saw.

[EternalMelon]

I think Heliomance knows the situation well enough to trust her sources here. Much better than random people on the internet at least.

@Heliomance: I've been there, it sucks. And while I confess I didn't necessarily do the right thing the first time, when you cut someone out of your life eventually the wound heals over.

[Heliomance]

Some people are liars. Some liars are terrible at it and get easily found out, others really, really, very much aren't and you might only find out years later. Somebody is lying here, it could be one versus one, with everybody else repeating what they heard, or it might not be, you need to know what people actually saw, not what they heard somebody else saw.

I did say in the original post that I believe the source. This is not "I don't know what the truth is", this is "I'm pretty certain I do know what the truth is but I'm having a hard time accepting it on an emotional level".

I do know what people saw. The original post (let's call the author P) was a long and detailed recounting of exactly how this person (now referred to as C) had been manipulative and emotionally abusive to P, how their interactions started, and descriptions of what P believes is C's normal pattern. It was followed by many, many responses of "C's actions in [other situation] look really creepy in light of this", "I can personally confirm I've seen [one particular behaviour called out in the post] from C before", and "I think I'm in the early stages of that pattern".

I trust the people involved not to make false accusations, and there are enough separate people that are not in each other's closest circles saying things that it's unlikely to be a concerted smear job.

I believe P. I just don't want to.

[halfeye]

Much better than random people on the internet at least.

That's exactly who I am. I don't claim otherwise in any way.


I did say in the original post that I believe the source. This is not "I don't know what the truth is", this is "I'm pretty certain I do know what the truth is but I'm having a hard time accepting it on an emotional level".

I do know what people saw. The original post (let's call the author P) was a long and detailed recounting of exactly how this person (now referred to as C) had been manipulative and emotionally abusive to P, how their interactions started, and descriptions of what P believes is C's normal pattern. It was followed by many, many responses of "C's actions in [other situation] look really creepy in light of this", "I can personally confirm I've seen [one particular behaviour called out in the post] from C before", and "I think I'm in the early stages of that pattern".

I trust the people involved not to make false accusations, and there are enough separate people that are not in each other's closest circles saying things that it's unlikely to be a concerted smear job.

I believe P. I just don't want to.

I'm just saying "Let's be careful out there"(TM). It won't be easy.

[Lissou]

I may have missed it earlier in the thread, but I don't think anyone mentioned it yet, so here goes:

The author of Goblins: Life Through Their Eyes came out as trans earlier this month. Her chosen name is Ellipsis (Elli for short, pronounced L E) and her wife has been endlessly supportive during the whole process. I'm stoked for her as she seems happier than ever, and people close to her seem to have taken it very positively, which is great especially because she was super worried about it.

It's always heartwarming to see positive experiences like this :)

[Mystic Muse]

I heard about this, but hadn't heard who it was.

Personally, I think Ellipsis is kind of a weird name, but whatever makes her happy! Hope this improves Elli's quality of life.

[Lissou]

I heard about this, but hadn't heard who it was.

Personally, I think Ellipsis is kind of a weird name, but whatever makes her happy! Hope this improves Elli's quality of life.

It is a weird name, indeed! The reason she picked it is that it was her online name in a bunch of stuff already, so she already identified with the name. I can get that, I made one of my screen names my middle name when I became a citizen :P

So it follows the rules of being a username and not a given name, making it sound odd, but the short version helps with that I think.

[Honest Tiefling]

Personally, I think Ellipsis is kind of a weird name, but whatever makes her happy! Hope this improves Elli's quality of life.

Well, have to admit, a lot better than 'Thunt' especially for a girl. Yeah, anything that rhymes with Thunt is just a bad idea for a lady. Could be a pen name of sorts for all I know, however.

[137beth]

I may have missed it earlier in the thread, but I don't think anyone mentioned it yet, so here goes:

The author of Goblins: Life Through Their Eyes came out as trans earlier this month. Her chosen name is Ellipsis (Elli for short, pronounced L E) and her wife has been endlessly supportive during the whole process. I'm stoked for her as she seems happier than ever, and people close to her seem to have taken it very positively, which is great especially because she was super worried about it.

It's always heartwarming to see positive experiences like this :)
Thanks for the heads up. Now I will move Goblins further up the list of comics I intend read at some point.

[Ravens_cry]

It's not that great, in my opinion. The art style is awkward feeling and the writing very uneven. It's done some great moments of horror, but other moments are just badly done. I'm happy for her, but I read up to the end of the archive once and only occasionally gone back to it since. Really, there's better webcomics to read, even if that one happens, gasp, to be done by a transwoman.

[The Succubus]

It's not that great, in my opinion. The art style is awkward feeling and the writing very uneven. It's done some great moments of horror, but other moments are just badly done. I'm happy for her, but I read up to the end of the archive once and only occasionally gone back to it since. Really, there's better webcomics to read, even if that one happens, gasp, to be done by a transwoman.

It'll be interesting to see if the comic evolves since she came out, whether we see any changes in tone or style. Either way, best of luck to her.

[Honest Tiefling]

It's not that great, in my opinion. The art style is awkward feeling and the writing very uneven. It's done some great moments of horror, but other moments are just badly done. I'm happy for her, but I read up to the end of the archive once and only occasionally gone back to it since. Really, there's better webcomics to read, even if that one happens, gasp, to be done by a transwoman.

You got a recommendation for a better one done by a transwoman while we're on the topic?

[halfeye]

You got a recommendation for a better one done by a transwoman while we're on the topic?

I dunno about better, and it isn't about D&D, but this ticks the other box.

http://www.wildflowerslgbt.ca/comics/

[137beth]

I'm a fan of Rain (http://rain.thecomicseries.com/) (written by a trans woman) and Inhibit (http://www.inhibitcomic.com/) (written by a nonbinary person).

[TerrickTerran]

I tried Rain and I liked it for a while (I can binge webcomic read like a lot of people binge watch shows) but around 2017 it started to taper off and when I hit 2018 and the t-boy came out, I just felt the creator was shoving one too many t-characters into the comic. Rain seems to be a side character in the comic named after her at that point. I'm going to try out the other one and see if I like it better though.

[Lissou]

I'm still reading Rain and still enjoying it. I agree that it has a case of "90% of the main characters are LGBT" (if not more, in this case), and leaning heavily on the T. It does counterbalance all the works with no trans people in them, but it does get it the way of recommending it as a comic about anything other than trans issues. Which, you know, isn't necessarily bad I guess. It's good to have comics about trans issues. But it's clearly meant for people who are either trans or already familiar/comfortable with trans stuff. It's not going to be an introduction for anyone or a comic contributing to making LGBT people more accepted in the mainstream, because the "mainstream" will be turned off too early.

So it's nice to have comics (or other media) with one or two trans characters, where it's not the whole story, and then the comic has things to offer other than just being a comic with trans people in it. That's not what Rain is going for. I still enjoy it, but I understand I'm not the main target demographic (which I would say is probably trans school aged kids who haven't come out).

Anyway. I hope that there will be more trans characters in all forms of media whose arc isn't just "I'm a trans character". But I think we're not quite there yet?

[Honest Tiefling]

...But I understand I'm not the main target demographic (which I would say is probably trans school aged kids who haven't come out)...

Yeah, I think this is why Rain and Wild Flower didn't really work for me, since I am none of those. Inhibit is pretty cool, liking it a lot! So thanks, 137ben!

[Dire Moose]

I went swimming for the first time since my transition started!

https://i.postimg.cc/fR53pFH4/6584-A0-E0-2438-45-D6-BABA-C2-AD6-FC50-D44.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/gJh2zBK2/4619-EB60-EB08-42-A8-8835-D42-A1987-E87-D.jpg

[Kesnit]

I realized something lately...

I started my transition 13 years ago. In all of that time, my mother never approved. I graduated with an advanced degree, but Mom didn't go to my graduation because I was graduating under my male name. I got married, but Mom didn't know it because she didn't approve of my now-wife. (Dad knew and wanted to be at the wedding. However, he had to keep Mom occupied so she wouldn't realize that my aunts - who were invited - were not responding to her e-mails while they were out of town.) I stopped going to holidays with the family (though part of that was because I lived 13 hours away for a few years). I skipped my 20 year high school reunion because my parents were still living in the town where I grew up and I didn't want to embarrass them. When I finally got on Facebook (6 years into transition), I intentionally didn't look up friends from high school because I didn't want to have to explain who I was. Although I was friends with some of my family on FB, Mom blocked me so she wouldn't accidentally see my name if I responded to a family member. The one time I did see my parents (as they drove through going north to visit the rest of the family for Christmas), I shaved my beard (which I had had for years) because I knew Mom would have a fit if she saw it. (I was not without support from family. My in-laws love me, and refer to me as their son, not their son-in-law. It weirds my wife and I out a little, but we know what they mean.)

My mother passed away last November. To my shock (and pleasure), Dad wrote the orbit listing me under my male name. This orbit ran in the local paper where I grew up, as well as the one where my parents moved after they retired. Not long after, I got a FB message and friend request from someone I knew in high school. The message said she wasn't sure if I remembered her (I did), and was very supportive, but said she would understand if I didn't want to reconnect with people who had known me before. I accepted her friend request, and within days had about 20 more friend requests from others I had known in HS. I was added to the FB group for my graduating class and got to see all the posts planning our 25 year reunion. (I wasn't able to go to that because one of my best friends was getting married that weekend.)


It occurred to me that I feel so much freer than I did before. I also didn't know how much I missed people I knew in high school until I had reconnected. (My disconnect was not completely related to my transition. I had drifted away from them after I graduated from college.) My family all calls me by my male name. Dad has offered to take me and my wife on a cruise for our honeymoon. (We've been married over 7 years, but never had the time or finances to have a real honeymoon.)

I didn't know how much hiding my life from my mother was wearing me down until I no longer had that burden. I miss her, and there are many times when I catch myself thinking "I need to call Mom and tell her about this." But I am so glad I am no longer going along under that weight.

[CWater]

I realized something lately...

I started my transition 13 years ago. In all of that time, my mother never approved. I graduated with an advanced degree, but Mom didn't go to my graduation because I was graduating under my male name. I got married, but Mom didn't know it because she didn't approve of my now-wife. (Dad knew and wanted to be at the wedding. However, he had to keep Mom occupied so she wouldn't realize that my aunts - who were invited - were not responding to her e-mails while they were out of town.) I stopped going to holidays with the family (though part of that was because I lived 13 hours away for a few years). I skipped my 20 year high school reunion because my parents were still living in the town where I grew up and I didn't want to embarrass them. When I finally got on Facebook (6 years into transition), I intentionally didn't look up friends from high school because I didn't want to have to explain who I was. Although I was friends with some of my family on FB, Mom blocked me so she wouldn't accidentally see my name if I responded to a family member. The one time I did see my parents (as they drove through going north to visit the rest of the family for Christmas), I shaved my beard (which I had had for years) because I knew Mom would have a fit if she saw it. (I was not without support from family. My in-laws love me, and refer to me as their son, not their son-in-law. It weirds my wife and I out a little, but we know what they mean.)

My mother passed away last November. To my shock (and pleasure), Dad wrote the orbit listing me under my male name. This orbit ran in the local paper where I grew up, as well as the one where my parents moved after they retired. Not long after, I got a FB message and friend request from someone I knew in high school. The message said she wasn't sure if I remembered her (I did), and was very supportive, but said she would understand if I didn't want to reconnect with people who had known me before. I accepted her friend request, and within days had about 20 more friend requests from others I had known in HS. I was added to the FB group for my graduating class and got to see all the posts planning our 25 year reunion. (I wasn't able to go to that because one of my best friends was getting married that weekend.)


It occurred to me that I feel so much freer than I did before. I also didn't know how much I missed people I knew in high school until I had reconnected. (My disconnect was not completely related to my transition. I had drifted away from them after I graduated from college.) My family all calls me by my male name. Dad has offered to take me and my wife on a cruise for our honeymoon. (We've been married over 7 years, but never had the time or finances to have a real honeymoon.)

I didn't know how much hiding my life from my mother was wearing me down until I no longer had that burden. I miss her, and there are many times when I catch myself thinking "I need to call Mom and tell her about this." But I am so glad I am no longer going along under that weight.

I'm glad things have improved for you. Hiding can be very distressing, it's great that you don't have to deal with that anymore. :)

Thank you for sharing this story, it gives a positive example of how one's situation can get better and find a more accepting surrounding. My situation in life is not entirely similar to yours, but there are some common aspects, so hearing your story cheered me up a little.

I am sorry your mother never found the mindset to accept who you are, but I'm glad you could find happiness nonetheless.

[AliceLost]

I stopped talking to my parents when I came out, because I knew the alternative was a life of hiding like that, and honestly it's refreshing to see other people who have had similar experiences. People who don't get it can be utterly uncomprehending of how someone can choose to cut themselves off from their birth family, but you're right that life not dictated by other people's expectations is so much more freeing. I'm glad you're getting to experience all of that now.

[Lentrax]

It's been over a month without a post in here.

Is everyone doing alright?

[Heliomance]

Yep! Healing nicely, back to normal activity levels now!

I think the forum is slowly dying in general, tbh

[SaintRidley]

My spouse is having a hard time of trying to adjust to the idea of me dressing more for comfort and adopting a more androgynous style. Happy I'm happy, but it's a big change for her.

Otherwise doing well. I've had a few dates this week, including one Tuesday night that went really well. I've got a date tomorrow night with Tuesday's girlfriend, as both are very interested in me.

[EternalMelon]

After a long and arduous fight against the untaught rules of the healthcare system and the entropic maw that is my own mind I have finally, since yesterday, achieved hormones.

[CWater]

After a long and arduous fight against the untaught rules of the healthcare system and the entropic maw that is my own mind I have finally, since yesterday, achieved hormones.

Congrats! :smallsmile: I hope everything works out!

[137beth]

After a long and arduous fight against the untaught rules of the healthcare system and the entropic maw that is my own mind I have finally, since yesterday, achieved hormones.

Congratulations!

On a related note, I just got a blood test for the first time since starting E.

[noparlpf]

Haven't been here for ages but I have a question.

Is there a specific gender identity label for somebody who experiences genital dysphoria but is otherwise comfortable with their secondary sex characteristics and more or less comfortable with their socially perceived gender? (Not broad terms like genderqueer and nonbinary.)

[Lissou]

Haven't been here for ages but I have a question.

Is there a specific gender identity label for somebody who experiences genital dysphoria but is otherwise comfortable with their secondary sex characteristics and more or less comfortable with their socially perceived gender? (Not broad terms like genderqueer and nonbinary.)

If there is one, I don't personally know it.

[lio45]

I think the forum is slowly dying in general, tbh
Yeah, it hit me that Lentrax's post was a hair away (a couple days away) from constituting Official Thread Necromancy as per the Forum Rules, which suggests that they were written with a much busier era in mind.

[Lycunadari]

Does anyone have advise on reconnecting with people who knew you pre-transition/name change without having to misgender/deadname yourself?

I used to have two very close friends from primary school age to when I moved away after graduating from high school- two sisters who lived down the street, one about my age (let's call her A), the other two years younger (B)than me. We were really close- playing together every day when we were younger, lots and lots of sleepovers, going on vacation together when we were older, walking to school and home together every day (though we went to different schools, we shared part of the way). I grew a bit less close with A when we got older and we developed different interests (I was still interested in "childish" things like roleplaying, and she was bored of our games. Also, she sided with my bullies one time, and while we patched things up later, we never were as close again), but I stayed really close with B even though we had really different interests (she was a total social butterfly- lots of friends, interested in "girly stuff" like makeup and fashion, going out etc, while I had very few friends, severe social anxiety and was more interested in books and video games)- she never made me feel like I was inferior for not being popular.
When I moved away when I was 19 we tried to keep in contact (and they also left for uni at the same time/ a year later), but neither of them used skype, and I wasn't on facebook, and we didn't keep up with writing emails, so we drifted apart. We met a couple of times when we were both at home during the first two years, and B wanted to visit me at uni (she considered going to the same uni as me) but she ghosted on me and only wrote me an email two weeks later to say that she had decided on another uni (also, she has some mental health problems, so I'm not angry at her or anything). Now I haven't seen or heard from her for a couple of years. I met A last summer by chance and we both said that we want to meet up some time, and she gave me her phone number, but we never followed up on that (that's on me).
During these 6 years, I came out as genderqueer and changed my name (I haven't physically transitioned). I realised I was trans about a year before I moved away, but wasn't ready to come out then so I never came out to them. The few times we met (with exception the one meeting last year) were also before I had changed my name or came out to anyone but immediate family, and so I didn't bring it up with them. But now I'm fully out, and exclusively use my new name.
I really want to reconnect with them- I miss them a lot, I sometimes even still dream about them, and tbh I don't really have many other friends (and making new friends is hard with social phobia). But I don't know how to contact them because they don't know my new name and I really don't want to use my old name. I've considered writing them a letter, asking to meet up, and also explain the name & gender thing, but I can't think of a way that doesn't feel too obtrusive. "Hi A and B, you haven't heard from me in years but btw I'm trans and now called Juniper.[insert trans 101] Wanna meet up? Oh right, you knew me as [redacted]." That's also the reason why I never wrote/called A after she gave me her phone number- I didn't want to deadname myself, but I couldn't figure out a way to use the new name in a way that still let her know who I am.

[Mith]

Does anyone have advise on reconnecting with people who knew you pre-transition/name change without having to misgender/deadname yourself?

I used to have two very close friends from primary school age to when I moved away after graduating from high school- two sisters who lived down the street, one about my age (let's call her A), the other two years younger (B)than me. We were really close- playing together every day when we were younger, lots and lots of sleepovers, going on vacation together when we were older, walking to school and home together every day (though we went to different schools, we shared part of the way). I grew a bit less close with A when we got older and we developed different interests (I was still interested in "childish" things like roleplaying, and she was bored of our games. Also, she sided with my bullies one time, and while we patched things up later, we never were as close again), but I stayed really close with B even though we had really different interests (she was a total social butterfly- lots of friends, interested in "girly stuff" like makeup and fashion, going out etc, while I had very few friends, severe social anxiety and was more interested in books and video games)- she never made me feel like I was inferior for not being popular.
When I moved away when I was 19 we tried to keep in contact (and they also left for uni at the same time/ a year later), but neither of them used skype, and I wasn't on facebook, and we didn't keep up with writing emails, so we drifted apart. We met a couple of times when we were both at home during the first two years, and B wanted to visit me at uni (she considered going to the same uni as me) but she ghosted on me and only wrote me an email two weeks later to say that she had decided on another uni (also, she has some mental health problems, so I'm not angry at her or anything). Now I haven't seen or heard from her for a couple of years. I met A last summer by chance and we both said that we want to meet up some time, and she gave me her phone number, but we never followed up on that (that's on me).
During these 6 years, I came out as genderqueer and changed my name (I haven't physically transitioned). I realised I was trans about a year before I moved away, but wasn't ready to come out then so I never came out to them. The few times we met (with exception the one meeting last year) were also before I had changed my name or came out to anyone but immediate family, and so I didn't bring it up with them. But now I'm fully out, and exclusively use my new name.
I really want to reconnect with them- I miss them a lot, I sometimes even still dream about them, and tbh I don't really have many other friends (and making new friends is hard with social phobia). But I don't know how to contact them because they don't know my new name and I really don't want to use my old name. I've considered writing them a letter, asking to meet up, and also explain the name & gender thing, but I can't think of a way that doesn't feel too obtrusive. "Hi A and B, you haven't heard from me in years but btw I'm trans and now called Juniper.[insert trans 101] Wanna meet up? Oh right, you knew me as [redacted]." That's also the reason why I never wrote/called A after she gave me her phone number- I didn't want to deadname myself, but I couldn't figure out a way to use the new name in a way that still let her know who I am.

This isn't within my experience, but to hopefully get some ideas flowing:

My first thoughts is in either an email or letter to include photos of you all as children along side a photo of yourself now. You can hint at them knowing you by a different name, but never use it. This doesn't work if you do not want _any_ association pre transition, but to me it gives a starting point of "this is who I am, this is how I know you, and I really would like to reconnect." This thought is also from the perpective of the memories they have is of the same person, just that appearances have changed*. Also, who else would have access to these photos?

I am not saying it will not result in slip ups, but I would guess the best way to avoid being deadnamed is to not be the one to start it. That explicitly plants the seed, even if they do not view it as an "excuse".

Hopefully this helps, if not as good advice, then as something to get ideas rolling. I hope I have not crossed any boundary lines with this advice.

*Not meaning to diminish your own (or anyone's) transition, but more that people are so much more than their bodies, so transitions do not change any deep relationships one has that go beyond physical appearance.

[ve4grm]

Does anyone have advise on reconnecting with people who knew you pre-transition/name change without having to misgender/deadname yourself?

I used to have two very close friends from primary school age to when I moved away after graduating from high school- two sisters who lived down the street, one about my age (let's call her A), the other two years younger (B)than me. We were really close- playing together every day when we were younger, lots and lots of sleepovers, going on vacation together when we were older, walking to school and home together every day (though we went to different schools, we shared part of the way). I grew a bit less close with A when we got older and we developed different interests (I was still interested in "childish" things like roleplaying, and she was bored of our games. Also, she sided with my bullies one time, and while we patched things up later, we never were as close again), but I stayed really close with B even though we had really different interests (she was a total social butterfly- lots of friends, interested in "girly stuff" like makeup and fashion, going out etc, while I had very few friends, severe social anxiety and was more interested in books and video games)- she never made me feel like I was inferior for not being popular.
When I moved away when I was 19 we tried to keep in contact (and they also left for uni at the same time/ a year later), but neither of them used skype, and I wasn't on facebook, and we didn't keep up with writing emails, so we drifted apart. We met a couple of times when we were both at home during the first two years, and B wanted to visit me at uni (she considered going to the same uni as me) but she ghosted on me and only wrote me an email two weeks later to say that she had decided on another uni (also, she has some mental health problems, so I'm not angry at her or anything). Now I haven't seen or heard from her for a couple of years. I met A last summer by chance and we both said that we want to meet up some time, and she gave me her phone number, but we never followed up on that (that's on me).
During these 6 years, I came out as genderqueer and changed my name (I haven't physically transitioned). I realised I was trans about a year before I moved away, but wasn't ready to come out then so I never came out to them. The few times we met (with exception the one meeting last year) were also before I had changed my name or came out to anyone but immediate family, and so I didn't bring it up with them. But now I'm fully out, and exclusively use my new name.
I really want to reconnect with them- I miss them a lot, I sometimes even still dream about them, and tbh I don't really have many other friends (and making new friends is hard with social phobia). But I don't know how to contact them because they don't know my new name and I really don't want to use my old name. I've considered writing them a letter, asking to meet up, and also explain the name & gender thing, but I can't think of a way that doesn't feel too obtrusive. "Hi A and B, you haven't heard from me in years but btw I'm trans and now called Juniper.[insert trans 101] Wanna meet up? Oh right, you knew me as [redacted]." That's also the reason why I never wrote/called A after she gave me her phone number- I didn't want to deadname myself, but I couldn't figure out a way to use the new name in a way that still let her know who I am.

(Note: Not trans, so none of this is from experience, just trying to help with what I might need if I got sent such an email. I'm not always the most observant, so some more obvious clues are appreciated for me.)

Do you use the same email as before? If so, you can refer to it by starting the email with something like "Check the email address if you're confused about who this is." If there's another way they might know it's you without the name (old screen name, character name, house number, etc), you could try that. "Hey, it's me, 123 Main Street!" can be just as explicit as "Hey, it's me, Joe!"

Or you could start with "Do you remember a childhood friend you had named 'X'? Well that person has evolved into someone new and fabulous. Hi, my name's Juniper, and I'd like to re-introduce myself for the first time." - This would avoid directly referring to yourself by the deadname, while still giving context. Up to you if you're comfortable enough with that.

Other option, if you have a mutual friend who would be willing, you could have them send the initial email, explaining the situation and saying you'll be in touch, and then you could follow up a few days later with a new introduction.

Unfortunately, if you want to reconnect, you'll probably need to give a bit of context so they know what's happened and who you are/used to be. If you were connected with them the whole time, they'd already have this context. Reconnecting, it might have to be provided. There are ways to do that more or less subtly, and maybe without directly deadnaming yourself. But I imagine you'll want to be explicit that the name IS dead, and it might be tricky difficult without alluding to the name in the first place.

Best of luck.

[LaZodiac]

Not to just barge in here with a "writing LGBTA characters" question but; If I'm writing a story with a trans character, and the story is about them slowly being more open about themselves and finally transitioning, but they know they're trans, how do I go about using pronouns?

To further elaborate, they are trans but I don't want the reader to know till the end of the first chapter. They are't confident about it, at the start of the story, but they know they want it and just need that extra push, so presumably after the reveal to the reader, I'd use their proper pronouns. But would it be a faux-pas to refer to them by the wrong pronoun in the close-third-person narration if they are not currently the viewpoint character, and the person who is doesn't know that they're trans?

I realize this might be a confusing question. Thank you for your patience.

[DataNinja]

Not to just barge in here with a "writing LGBTA characters" question but; If I'm writing a story with a trans character, and the story is about them slowly being more open about themselves and finally transitioning, but they know they're trans, how do I go about using pronouns?

To further elaborate, they are trans but I don't want the reader to know till the end of the first chapter. They are't confident about it, at the start of the story, but they know they want it and just need that extra push, so presumably after the reveal to the reader, I'd use their proper pronouns. But would it be a faux-pas to refer to them by the wrong pronoun in the close-third-person narration if they are not currently the viewpoint character, and the person who is doesn't know that they're trans?

I realize this might be a confusing question. Thank you for your patience.

If it's not the person gendering themself in their own thoughts, I do not think that it would be an issue. An observers thoughts could correspond to what they're presenting as. (It's reminding me of one book where one of the protagonists was a girl disguising herself as a boy. So all of her chapters referred to her as a girl, and used her name. While all of the ones from the viewpoint of the other protagonist - who did not know for pretty much the entire run of the series - referred to her as "him", and used her assumed name. And all of it was done in limited third person.)

I don't imagine it being offensive at all, since the entire point of the limited third person viewpoint is all based on perspective. (Granted, of course, there're always ways to do things wrong, so it's not a blanket statement, but I don't see anything inherently wrong with it.) Since they're not out, especially if they're presenting as the other gender, then I don't see an issue arising.

[EternalMelon]

Does anyone have advise on reconnecting with people who knew you pre-transition/name change without having to misgender/deadname yourself?

I used to have two very close friends from primary school age to when I moved away after graduating from high school- two sisters who lived down the street, one about my age (let's call her A), the other two years younger (B)than me. We were really close- playing together every day when we were younger, lots and lots of sleepovers, going on vacation together when we were older, walking to school and home together every day (though we went to different schools, we shared part of the way). I grew a bit less close with A when we got older and we developed different interests (I was still interested in "childish" things like roleplaying, and she was bored of our games. Also, she sided with my bullies one time, and while we patched things up later, we never were as close again), but I stayed really close with B even though we had really different interests (she was a total social butterfly- lots of friends, interested in "girly stuff" like makeup and fashion, going out etc, while I had very few friends, severe social anxiety and was more interested in books and video games)- she never made me feel like I was inferior for not being popular.
When I moved away when I was 19 we tried to keep in contact (and they also left for uni at the same time/ a year later), but neither of them used skype, and I wasn't on facebook, and we didn't keep up with writing emails, so we drifted apart. We met a couple of times when we were both at home during the first two years, and B wanted to visit me at uni (she considered going to the same uni as me) but she ghosted on me and only wrote me an email two weeks later to say that she had decided on another uni (also, she has some mental health problems, so I'm not angry at her or anything). Now I haven't seen or heard from her for a couple of years. I met A last summer by chance and we both said that we want to meet up some time, and she gave me her phone number, but we never followed up on that (that's on me).
During these 6 years, I came out as genderqueer and changed my name (I haven't physically transitioned). I realised I was trans about a year before I moved away, but wasn't ready to come out then so I never came out to them. The few times we met (with exception the one meeting last year) were also before I had changed my name or came out to anyone but immediate family, and so I didn't bring it up with them. But now I'm fully out, and exclusively use my new name.
I really want to reconnect with them- I miss them a lot, I sometimes even still dream about them, and tbh I don't really have many other friends (and making new friends is hard with social phobia). But I don't know how to contact them because they don't know my new name and I really don't want to use my old name. I've considered writing them a letter, asking to meet up, and also explain the name & gender thing, but I can't think of a way that doesn't feel too obtrusive. "Hi A and B, you haven't heard from me in years but btw I'm trans and now called Juniper.[insert trans 101] Wanna meet up? Oh right, you knew me as [redacted]." That's also the reason why I never wrote/called A after she gave me her phone number- I didn't want to deadname myself, but I couldn't figure out a way to use the new name in a way that still let her know who I am.
Do you have a nickname? Or do you think they remember your last name? Let me know if you come up with a solution though, I've been mulling over how to handle similar situations myself and I'm pretty sure I'm just going to have to bite the bullet.

Not to just barge in here with a "writing LGBTA characters" question but; If I'm writing a story with a trans character, and the story is about them slowly being more open about themselves and finally transitioning, but they know they're trans, how do I go about using pronouns?

To further elaborate, they are trans but I don't want the reader to know till the end of the first chapter. They are't confident about it, at the start of the story, but they know they want it and just need that extra push, so presumably after the reveal to the reader, I'd use their proper pronouns. But would it be a faux-pas to refer to them by the wrong pronoun in the close-third-person narration if they are not currently the viewpoint character, and the person who is doesn't know that they're trans?

I realize this might be a confusing question. Thank you for your patience.
I think that its ok, kinda like how you change what name is used if someone... changes their name in the story, or if someone realizes they are gay over the course of the story the narration doesn't contradict them anytime they say they are straight.


"Oh no sorry," he said, embarrassed "I'm straight."
He wasn't

Also, call it cheesy but a pronoun change at the end of the chapter might be a good way to confirm to the reader that yes, the character right in thinking they are trans.


He took a deep breath and said "I'm trans."

And he was.

[LaZodiac]

I think that its ok, kinda like how you change what name is used if someone... changes their name in the story, or if someone realizes they are gay over the course of the story the narration doesn't contradict them anytime they say they are straight.

Also, call it cheesy but a pronoun change at the end of the chapter might be a good way to confirm to the reader that yes, the character right in thinking they are trans.

Thanks.

Naw that was something like what I was thinking. I don't want to write out my ideas yet since this was basically be brainstorming for Nanowrimo and that'd be cheating I guess, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt. I was thinking somethin' like...;

"All that talk of puberty depressed her. Thinking about growing up, becoming a woman, depressed her. Because Anne had a secret, a secret she hadn't told her best friends, her crush, even her twin sister.

Anne wasn't a girl. He was a boy."

[Morgana]

You could use gender neutral pronouns

[ve4grm]

You could use gender neutral pronouns

That might give away that something is up, if overused. But it is only one chapter.

Heck, for just one chapter, you could just avoid using pronouns altogether! Make it gradually more awkward and obvious that you're avoiding it, until you come out with that proper pronoun at the end of the chapter.

I mean, I won't say that's good writing practice, but it might be amusing to see.

[LaZodiac]

That might give away that something is up, if overused. But it is only one chapter.

Heck, for just one chapter, you could just avoid using pronouns altogether! Make it gradually more awkward and obvious that you're avoiding it, until you come out with that proper pronoun at the end of the chapter.

I mean, I won't say that's good writing practice, but it might be amusing to see.

I think I could get away with that. I'll try it out once November comes around.

[Sobol]

The latest strip from Housepets! (http://www.housepetscomic.com/) webcomic. One of the characters, a human teenager, has been transformed into a squirrel:


http://www.housepetscomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/2019-09-13-times-makes-fools-of-us-all.png

[137beth]

The latest strip from Housepets! (http://www.housepetscomic.com/) webcomic. One of the characters, a human teenager, has been transformed into a squirrel:


http://www.housepetscomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/2019-09-13-times-makes-fools-of-us-all.png

That gave me a chuckle. Housepets has been on my list of "webcomics to read at some point" for a long time, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

[halfeye]

The latest strip from Housepets! (http://www.housepetscomic.com/) webcomic. One of the characters, a human teenage boy, has been transformed into a female squirrel:


http://www.housepetscomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/2019-09-13-times-makes-fools-of-us-all.png

FTFY :smallbiggrin:

[Sermil]

Heck, for just one chapter, you could just avoid using pronouns altogether! Make it gradually more awkward and obvious that you're avoiding it, until you come out with that proper pronoun at the end of the chapter.

I mean, I won't say that's good writing practice, but it might be amusing to see.


I think I could get away with that. I'll try it out once November comes around.


The original Thieves' World book had a short story in which the main character was a woman, disguised as a man - but the narrator just never used pronouns for her until the very last sentence. You didn't notice because the other characters call Lythande "he / him" in a few places, so the fact that the narrator doesn't use pronouns doesn't stand out.

At least, I didn't notice until the very last sentence, even though the entire story revolves around her having a secret and people trying to figure out what the secret is. Of course, I was lot younger back then...

[Algeh]

So, I feel like I am having a lot of trouble separating "perhaps I am non-binary" from "I experienced a lot of gendered bullying as a child and have a range of coping skills involving how I express gender, some of which are kind of terrible" and suspect that perhaps I should Talk To Someone About That. (A large part of my constantly-being-in-trouble-as-a-child narrative, as explained by my mother, is "everyone isn't putting up with [some behavior or other, not always the same one] from you because you're a girl, which is unfair because they never get boys in trouble for that, society is full of terrible misogyny and you don't have to put up with it, but if you don't conform more school/dating/life will be much harder for you", which means I'm having trouble separating not-a-girl from my-life-would-be-better-if-I-weren't-a-girl, which aren't inherently the same concept because I can think of lots of true things about myself that make my life harder.)

Does anyone have suggestions for how I go about finding a suitable sort of someone to talk to about all this? I have not had the greatest luck with therapists in the past, but admittedly I haven't gone in quite awhile and never brought up gender stuff. I'm not looking for the kind of therapist who exists to sign off on red-tape paperwork to medically rubber-stamp what people know to be true about themselves, but rather someone to help me actually think about my own gender stuff, and I worry that if I go to someone who specializes in Gender Stuff I'm going to find someone focused on the red-tape-clearing role.

[JusticeZero]

My orientation has quietly shifted slightly into a stupider shape. That or I don't remember the data from before. Either way. *airthrottle* makesense! Grump.
Also hormonal today, so everything is turned to 12.
Right now I seem to be S+/= ace, sensual attraction aimed at women and romantic attraction.. Ish? Maybe? I'm not sure? Aimed at men.
There's a completely unavailable guy I know who makes me jelly for some reason with lots of 'please notice me' stuff I catch myself doing. Quietly but insistently hinting about availability of RP characters. Being extra nice. I don't want to touch him, and it's not as though I know why I'm doing that. I'm pretty sure that's not the first time this year.
Meanwhile I keep seeing women and fantasizing about cuddling or kissing them, even though I know from experience that I have never actually enjoyed kissing. Don't want to do anything more than that.
Is there a word for that kind of jumble?

Husband is sick today. Has surgery coming up soon... Again... Keeping those details under wraps.

[EternalMelon]

My orientation has quietly shifted slightly into a stupider shape. That or I don't remember the data from before. Either way. *airthrottle* makesense! Grump.
Also hormonal today, so everything is turned to 12.
Right now I seem to be S+/= ace, sensual attraction aimed at women and romantic attraction.. Ish? Maybe? I'm not sure? Aimed at men.
There's a completely unavailable guy I know who makes me jelly for some reason with lots of 'please notice me' stuff I catch myself doing. Quietly but insistently hinting about availability of RP characters. Being extra nice. I don't want to touch him, and it's not as though I know why I'm doing that. I'm pretty sure that's not the first time this year.
Meanwhile I keep seeing women and fantasizing about cuddling or kissing them, even though I know from experience that I have never actually enjoyed kissing. Don't want to do anything more than that.
Is there a word for that kind of jumble?

Husband is sick today. Has surgery coming up soon... Again... Keeping those details under wraps.

Ugh, ace spectrum stuff is hard... unfortunately for us no one can really figure things out except ourselves. Although it sounds like you are touch/attention starved. How about a date night with your husband when he feels better before the surgery, if you can?

[Florian]

Ah, you know, it´s one of _those_ days.

You know, one of these when one of the people you work with outs him/her/itself as having an afghan lover, then as being bi and being secretly in love with one girl, then moths later as being trans and wanting to transition F2M? Now I'm cool with all that, but now I'm asked to find a good psychiatrist in Munich/Bavaria to get the prep work done and, well, I'm lost there.

[Lycunadari]

This site (http://transmann.de/adressen/) has a lot of trans related therapists/doctors etc., but it's probably best if he gets in contact with a local trans group- they often have their own lists, including information like "charges a ton of money for letters of indication, but is fine if you can afford it", "needs to be called everyday for a week to get an appointment, but when you have an appointment he's really good", "is the first one who comes up in a google search but is actually awful" etc- stuff that you wont find in public lists but is really helpful. Finding a group in Munich should be easy enough.

[Rydiro]

Ah, you know, it´s one of _those_ days.

You know, one of these when one of the people you work with outs him/her/itself as having an afghan lover, then as being bi and being secretly in love with one girl, then moths later as being trans and wanting to transition F2M? Now I'm cool with all that, but now I'm asked to find a good psychiatrist in Munich/Bavaria to get the prep work done and, well, I'm lost there.Sounds a little wild. You know, it needs psychiatrist approval for a reason.

[halfeye]

Sounds a little wild. You know, it needs psychiatrist approval for a reason.

That reason being that he needs a medic to write a prescription for the meds needed to begin the biological transition.


ect

In case you don't know, this is a typo; "etc." is a short version of "et cetera" which is latin for "and the rest".

[Lycunadari]

In case you don't know, this is a typo; "etc." is a short version of "et cetera" which is latin for "and the rest".
Yup, that was a typo, I have shaky hands today. I know where that acronym comes from. :smallsmile:

[Florian]

Sounds a little wild. You know, it needs psychiatrist approval for a reason.

It´s actually not that weird. Jaqueline is a bit of a freak, but overall a nice lad. Thing is, she understood pretty early what is going on with her and has an overall more or less accepting environment, but is rather thin-skinned and frustrated around certain topics, like having had multiple miscarriages and one of them in the phase when she was already sure to transition, so she is looking for a psychiatrist that is not only "qualified" but also "able and understanding" to work with her.

[KyooTrap]

Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... I have a new partner to join the poly family and the NRE is soooo nice, they're super cute and I can't stop thinking about them. I just love being turbo gay tbh. Sighh...

[super dark33]

Being Turbo Gay is the best form of Gay and Turbo to be

[Malozing]

How is everyone doing? It's been a while since I stuck my head in here.

Life has been stressful for my family and me, but my partner and I worked hard to make sure the necessary steps were taken. Now things are looking up.

[Dire Moose]

Thought I’d drop in to say I’m really enjoying life as a girl and thank you for helping me realize it was actually possible.

[Lentrax]

Just a reminder that today is the Transgender Day of Remembrance, where we remember those of us who are no longer here because of hate.

Take a moment today, and tell a trans person you know that they aren’t alone. Reach out. Lend a hand.

And remember those of us who are no longer here.

[DarthArminius]

I'm sorry to have to ask for help, yet again, for the billionth time. Can someone PM me ?

[Lentrax]

Did everyone survive the holidays?

[LaZodiac]

Barely, but yes. My Mom basically didn't try at all to use my proper gender, and got mad at me over something stupid. Everything else was good.

Also my aunt got me a very emotional, symbolic gift. When I was born a family member gave me a Hush Puppy hand puppet to grow alongside me. It's old and faded and missing pieces now, but I still have it. My aunt got me a new one to represent my rebirth due to my transition. We both cried, it's one of the most meaningful gifts I've ever received.

[137beth]

Barely, but yes. My Mom basically didn't try at all to use my proper gender, and got mad at me over something stupid. Everything else was good.

Also my aunt got me a very emotional, symbolic gift. When I was born a family member gave me a Hush Puppy hand puppet to grow alongside me. It's old and faded and missing pieces now, but I still have it. My aunt got me a new one to represent my rebirth due to my transition. We both cried, it's one of the most meaningful gifts I've ever received.
Good that you have at least one supportive relative.

[TaiLiu]

Happy new year and new decade to everyone here! Admittedly, it's not the Gregorian new year anywhere in the world, but those in UTC +14:00 have less than an hour, and I'm unlikely to log on again before the Gregorian new year passes worldwide.

I don't really post in this thread anymore, but the LGBTAI+ thread played a real important role in my self-understanding and self-development this decade, as I'm sure it did for many of you, too. I figured I ought to pay some small tribute, even if it's only a few pixels on a page. Thanks to all of you who were around when I was. And for those who have yet to join, I hope that this thread can play a small part in your life, too. For those of us queer and trans, this thread is a genuine oasis.



Barely, but yes. My Mom basically didn't try at all to use my proper gender, and got mad at me over something stupid. Everything else was good.
That sounds super frustrating and upsetting, especially over the holidays.

Also my aunt got me a very emotional, symbolic gift. When I was born a family member gave me a Hush Puppy hand puppet to grow alongside me. It's old and faded and missing pieces now, but I still have it. My aunt got me a new one to represent my rebirth due to my transition. We both cried, it's one of the most meaningful gifts I've ever received.
That's beautiful! I'm so so happy for you, LaZodiac, and I hope the gift augurs good tidings.

[The Fury]

I've been wanting to ask for advice on something for a while. I've been putting it off since it's feels pretty minor compared to what other folks are dealing with. One of the struggles with the LGBTQ experience is... labels. That is trying to find one that fits amid people in your life that apparently know better. Especially when consensus is the one that fits you best "isn't really a thing."

Specifically, I feel like I'm demisexual panromantic. Maybe it's something that requires too much explanation as to what that actually means so it's easily dismissed. I'm mostly just sort of... hangin' out in the closet mostly. I am out to people that I feel like would understand, but not out to most people in my life.

[LaZodiac]

I've been wanting to ask for advice on something for a while. I've been putting it off since it's feels pretty minor compared to what other folks are dealing with. One of the struggles with the LGBTQ experience is... labels. That is trying to find one that fits amid people in your life that apparently know better. Especially when consensus is the one that fits you best "isn't really a thing."

Specifically, I feel like I'm demisexual panromantic. Maybe it's something that requires too much explanation as to what that actually means so it's easily dismissed. I'm mostly just sort of... hangin' out in the closet mostly. I am out to people that I feel like would understand, but not out to most people in my life.

I'm admitidly a bad person to give advice on this for a number of reasons but if someone asks what you mean just say it means exactly what they think it means. Labels are, ultimately, for other people to use as shorthand to identify you. For good or ill, there's always going to be some roughness with that, so making it an explicit statement of "I don't actually really care that much this is the one that fits the best near as I can tell, it means what it means" would probably make it easier.

Also they can't say you are X, and then say X "isn't really a thing" because there you are, right there, you are X. X=The Fury. So I'd just kinda live your life.

[Kesnit]

Specifically, I feel like I'm demisexual panromantic. Maybe it's something that requires too much explanation as to what that actually means so it's easily dismissed. I'm mostly just sort of... hangin' out in the closet mostly. I am out to people that I feel like would understand, but not out to most people in my life.


I'm admitidly a bad person to give advice on this for a number of reasons but if someone asks what you mean just say it means exactly what they think it means.

I 100% disagree with saying this. I know how I would interpret that phrase, but my meaning may not be at all what The Fury means.

(Puts on old-timer hat)
I've been a part of the LGBT community (before all the rest of the letters were added) for over 20 years. When I came out, the letters were fairly straightforward. As time (decades!) passed, more terms came into use. But you know what was never done? Definitions! Could someone please explain the difference between demi- and pan- to me? (Please don't. It's a rhetorical question for the sake of the argument I'm making.) Every time someone tries to explain what a label means to them, I get a different answer - even for the same label.

So if you want people to understand what you are - TELL THEM YOUR DEFINITION. In plain terms!

[Mith]

I've been wanting to ask for advice on something for a while. I've been putting it off since it's feels pretty minor compared to what other folks are dealing with. One of the struggles with the LGBTQ experience is... labels. That is trying to find one that fits amid people in your life that apparently know better. Especially when consensus is the one that fits you best "isn't really a thing."

Specifically, I feel like I'm demisexual panromantic. Maybe it's something that requires too much explanation as to what that actually means so it's easily dismissed. I'm mostly just sort of... hangin' out in the closet mostly. I am out to people that I feel like would understand, but not out to most people in my life.

For clarification of my perspective (as I don't spend any time in this part of the internet), I personally see labels as a necessary evil in that they are precisely inprecise. For me, my perspective on my personal orientation has basically reached the point of "complicated mess, but "bisexual" keeps it within a comfortable character limit". Not to say that anyone else's use of labels for self understanding or communicating ideas is wrong, but I think focusing on labels as identifiers, rather than just short hand for broader ideas, is a futile purpose. But I don't have a solid bedrock that makes one label speak to me over others.

I second Zodi's point in that labels are only really useful to help process and communicate ideas. External confirmation for validity isn't really a thing (and gate keeping healthy sexual orientation is pure [insert frivolous flinging of flavourful fricatives] bull****).

You are you, and you are valid. I don't know the people you have issues with, but it may be good to remind them that they do not know the whole of human experiences. If you tell them you are demisexual panromantic, then that is that. They can inquire about your experiences, but they cannot deny those experiences.

Anyways, to those who may see this, I wish you all a happy New Year!

[The Fury]

Thanks to everyone that offered up their advice. And even if you didn't, I like you anyway.

I'm often around people that are more interested in telling me why I'm wrong, and it's made me go a little crazy in my own head. I'm not sure how or if I'll change in how I present myself, but if nothing else, I feel a little better about it.

[Mystic Muse]

I am doing okay, though I have not gotten to start transitioning yet. The hope is this year.

I will likely not be posting in this thread again. For reasons I can't really get into, I am most likely leaving the forum for good in a while. Somewhere between a week, and after my birthday (February 21st.)

Hope things go well for all of us this year.

PM me if you want my Discord information.

[Anymage]

Thanks to everyone that offered up their advice. And even if you didn't, I like you anyway.

I'm often around people that are more interested in telling me why I'm wrong, and it's made me go a little crazy in my own head. I'm not sure how or if I'll change in how I present myself, but if nothing else, I feel a little better about it.

This is a thing that drives me nuts in a lot of circles, treating labels as keywords. This often involves assuming that these keywords have more to them than just what's plainly on the tin. Either going to logical contortions to attach a popular keyword to themselves (to make up an example, someone who tries to add the trans tag to themselves despite being perfectly happy expressing and identifying with their birth sex), or else adding extra crud for gatekeeping purposes (e.g: insisting that you aren't really gay if you aren't a gold star gay).

In either case, I'm a much bigger fan of linguistic descriptivism. You can be interested in anybody, but you take a long time to get really engaged. I guess to some degree having words for it can help you see that you aren't some freakish exception. But for the most part, only use the words to the degree that they clarify communication (long rant about academic-ish obscuratinism here removed for space), and don't worry about what keywords other people might or might not attach.

[Themrys]

Thanks to everyone that offered up their advice. And even if you didn't, I like you anyway.

I'm often around people that are more interested in telling me why I'm wrong, and it's made me go a little crazy in my own head. I'm not sure how or if I'll change in how I present myself, but if nothing else, I feel a little better about it.

Why tell people everything about your attraction, actually? Especially if they want to tell you you are wrong.

Just say you are bi, if you need to weed out those who'd have a problem with it.

Everything else is specifics that are really only important to those you actually are attracted to.


Labels are overestimated. They might be useful for online dating purposes, but in real life? You don't really need one. You don't need to justify your no by telling people that you consider yourself demisexual. No means no, period. You are allowed to have boundaries, you need no label to justify them.

[The Fury]

This is a thing that drives me nuts in a lot of circles, treating labels as keywords. This often involves assuming that these keywords have more to them than just what's plainly on the tin. Either going to logical contortions to attach a popular keyword to themselves (to make up an example, someone who tries to add the trans tag to themselves despite being perfectly happy expressing and identifying with their birth sex), or else adding extra crud for gatekeeping purposes (e.g: insisting that you aren't really gay if you aren't a gold star gay).

In either case, I'm a much bigger fan of linguistic descriptivism. You can be interested in anybody, but you take a long time to get really engaged. I guess to some degree having words for it can help you see that you aren't some freakish exception. But for the most part, only use the words to the degree that they clarify communication (long rant about academic-ish obscuratinism here removed for space), and don't worry about what keywords other people might or might not attach.

Gatekeeping is something that I worry about in general. Maybe it's unfounded, but the possibility of having a conversation around, "No, I am supposed to be here." scares me. Especially since I "pass" for straight and look a little like I should be at a chilli cookoff. I say that it might be unfounded because most LGBTQ people I meet are actually nice to me, (I do get crap from some straight people though.)


Why tell people everything about your attraction, actually? Especially if they want to tell you you are wrong.

Just say you are bi, if you need to weed out those who'd have a problem with it.

Everything else is specifics that are really only important to those you actually are attracted to.


Labels are overestimated. They might be useful for online dating purposes, but in real life? You don't really need one. You don't need to justify your no by telling people that you consider yourself demisexual. No means no, period. You are allowed to have boundaries, you need no label to justify them.

I guess when people actually ask me what I am, I get hung up on labels because I like to be able to answer honestly. I'm not really bi, I'm not really ace. But sometimes I feel a little like both. It doesn't help that bi and ace people all too often aren't understood properly. Throwing in that I'm attracted to people outside the gender binary and that I'm not sexually interested unless there's a strong romantic connection muddles the issue further.

I'm right with you as far as boundaries go though. There have been a few points that I have been asked to justify a "no," and it wasn't fun. (Ultimately, the "no" stood and I got home safe in case you were worrried.)

[Themrys]

I guess when people actually ask me what I am, I get hung up on labels because I like to be able to answer honestly. I'm not really bi, I'm not really ace. But sometimes I feel a little like both. It doesn't help that bi and ace people all too often aren't understood properly. Throwing in that I'm attracted to people outside the gender binary and that I'm not sexually interested unless there's a strong romantic connection muddles the issue further.

I'm right with you as far as boundaries go though. There have been a few points that I have been asked to justify a "no," and it wasn't fun. (Ultimately, the "no" stood and I got home safe in case you were worrried.)

Eh, honesty is about telling people what they need to know to make the decisions they want to make. If people label themselves as being outside the gender binary, they might want to know that you could be attracted to them. However, to those people who don't, "bi" contains enough information.

I am hetero, pretty much only attracted to men who look like androgynous elves, and not interested in sex outside of a committed relationship.

All that matters to people I'm not interested in anyway is the hetero part.

[TinyMushroom]

As someone who's nonbinary, I don't feel like the distinction between being bi and pan matters that much. Like, it's cool that people want to specifically include nb people. And if the label holds value for you, that's great! Really don't want to invalidate pan people, but practically I don't feel bi people really use their label to explicitly exclude nb people either. To me it feels more like 'bi' is used simply because it's the most common term for attraction regardless of gender. I think a relationship with an nb person will come down way more to how that person specifically expresses their gender identity, and how supportive you are towards their feelings and behavior.

I don't know, keep calling yourself pan if you want. I just wanted to give some reassurance that I don't really think bi is offensive or exclusive either and it's totally fine to use it if it's easier to explain to people. I feel like the separation between the two terms is not entirely necessary.

[The Fury]

Eh, honesty is about telling people what they need to know to make the decisions they want to make. If people label themselves as being outside the gender binary, they might want to know that you could be attracted to them. However, to those people who don't, "bi" contains enough information.

I am hetero, pretty much only attracted to men who look like androgynous elves, and not interested in sex outside of a committed relationship.

All that matters to people I'm not interested in anyway is the hetero part.

That's a fair point. I feel like I might be holding onto some concerns that were more relevant to a me from some years ago. I used to have some friends acquaintances that really did make me feel like I needed to offer well-reasoned explanation for things that I did or felt. One of these people once opined that bisexuality isn't a thing "psychologically speaking." There was someone else that said my lack of sexual interest was just me being "uptight."

I mostly got shamed into silence back then. Things are different now though. I feel like I know that intellectually, but maybe haven't fully internalized it yet.


As someone who's nonbinary, I don't feel like the distinction between being bi and pan matters that much. Like, it's cool that people want to specifically include nb people. And if the label holds value for you, that's great! Really don't want to invalidate pan people, but practically I don't feel bi people really use their label to explicitly exclude nb people either. To me it feels more like 'bi' is used simply because it's the most common term for attraction regardless of gender. I think a relationship with an nb person will come down way more to how that person specifically expresses their gender identity, and how supportive you are towards their feelings and behavior.

I don't know, keep calling yourself pan if you want. I just wanted to give some reassurance that I don't really think bi is offensive or exclusive either and it's totally fine to use it if it's easier to explain to people. I feel like the separation between the two terms is not entirely necessary.

I appreciate you saying that. Though in my case, I feel like the "pan" identity speaks a little more true than the "bi" one does. I will admit that "bi" might be useful as a quick, (fairly) easily-understood term.

[Themrys]

That's a fair point. I feel like I might be holding onto some concerns that were more relevant to a me from some years ago. I used to have some friends acquaintances that really did make me feel like I needed to offer well-reasoned explanation for things that I did or felt. One of these people once opined that bisexuality isn't a thing "psychologically speaking." There was someone else that said my lack of sexual interest was just me being "uptight."

I mostly got shamed into silence back then. Things are different now though. I feel like I know that intellectually, but maybe haven't fully internalized it yet.



I see.
Seems you spent way too much time with terrible people.

If anyone demands justification for someone not being sexually interested in them (or anyone else, for that matter), and/or belittles them for said lack of interest, that's a huge red flag and a cue to run away very fast.

That's why I never would justify my lack of attraction to someone in any way - I'd be already busy running away.

(Granted, in very threatening situations, it can be wise to give the guy a false phone number, tell him that it's not him, it's your big, strong boyfriend, and then walk away slowly ... but any verbal justification would just be part of the running away process. I wouldn't do it in order to stay friends with people who call me uptight.)

[Anymage]

I appreciate you saying that. Though in my case, I feel like the "pan" identity speaks a little more true than the "bi" one does. I will admit that "bi" might be useful as a quick, (fairly) easily-understood term.

To repeat something I said upthread. Sometimes specialized terms like that are useful to discuss finer points when talking with people who are also used to specialized terms for finer points. And sometimes they're useful so people can see a label, realize that it applies to them, and realize that there are other people going through the same sort of thing that you are. In general usage, though, often all you need is to communicate the most basic idea. Info beyond that isn't really necessary, and can often come off as trying too hard. The cashier at the grocery store probably doesn't need to know your custom pronouns, for instance.


I see.
Seems you spent way too much time with terrible people.

If anyone demands justification for someone not being sexually interested in them (or anyone else, for that matter), and/or belittles them for said lack of interest, that's a huge red flag and a cue to run away very fast.

Having seen the sort of person that The Fury is talking about, it's less about getting someone else to sleep with them or their friends, and more about roundly castigating anybody who believes things at odds with their world view. They aren't saying you're a trash person for not going out with them specifically. They're saying you're a trash person because you care about something like weight, partner count, or HSV status when those are things that the larger community has decreed Should Not Matter.

They're still horrible people who should be avoided when possible and not taken as a serious source on anything. But they're more like religious moral bullies who try to bludgeon you with a cause (heavily influenced by their own tastes and spin, natch) than sexual bullies who try to badger you out of being such a prude.

[The Fury]

Having seen the sort of person that The Fury is talking about, it's less about getting someone else to sleep with them or their friends, and more about roundly castigating anybody who believes things at odds with their world view. They aren't saying you're a trash person for not going out with them specifically. They're saying you're a trash person because you care about something like weight, partner count, or HSV status when those are things that the larger community has decreed Should Not Matter.

They're still horrible people who should be avoided when possible and not taken as a serious source on anything. But they're more like religious moral bullies who try to bludgeon you with a cause (heavily influenced by their own tastes and spin, natch) than sexual bullies who try to badger you out of being such a prude.

That's closer to what they were like, yeah. I don't think any of them were sexually interested in me. Then again, my self-esteem was so low at the time that I couldn't fathom anyone being interested in me. They weren't nice people though. While I see that now, having people that say and believe things like that in my life didn't do me any favors. In particular, because it was familiar, it felt normal. At least I saw it as normal enough that I wasn't sure I was correct about bisexuality, (in how it related to me and others,) or even whether or not I was uptight.

I don't see or speak to these people anymore, and I'm better for it.

[Themrys]

They're still horrible people who should be avoided when possible and not taken as a serious source on anything. But they're more like religious moral bullies who try to bludgeon you with a cause (heavily influenced by their own tastes and spin, natch) than sexual bullies who try to badger you out of being such a prude.

They could still bully a sensitive person with low self esteem into submitting to sex she (or in rarer cases he) doesn't want, so I judge them harshly. (How many teenagers have sex to "get rid of virginity" because their peers have made them feel like they have to? And that's without anyone even explicitly saying it.)

Besides, I don't think they'll abstain from using the same tactics on a person they are attracted to, if they happen to not be that person's type.


Men raping lesbians because they are "morally" offended by lesbianism is a thing, after all. That's not a "you rejected me, personally" thing, but a "you rejected the group of people I belong to" thing.


I mean, I don't know of any cases of violent rape where the reason for the rejection was anything but maleness, but I find it hard to imagine that someone would make such a difference between what he expects for others of his group and what he expects for himself.

So "I think you are a horrible person for not being attracted to short men in general, but it is perfectly fine for you to reject me because I'm not tall enough for your taste" ... not something I think likely happens.

A reaction like "Wow, you just said no because I'm short, you are such a mean meanypants" is much more likely. (In fact, I once got a mild version of that when the guy was, actually, rather too tall for my liking, but unattractive to me for entirely different reasons. It was the thing he was insecure about ... for whatever reason.)


Now, I am pretty resilient when it comes to that sort of bullying, so nothing happened, but I shudder to think what the effect might have been on a more easily influenced, younger person who doesn't want to be considered a mean meanypants, or worse, a horrible person.

[Rydiro]

Just say you are bi,...
Thats the thing to say.
If you are actively looking for a relationship, it might be useful to think about your flirting preferances. And talk to good friends about them. You never know if they know someone...
Actively reaching out works like a miracle.

[The Fury]

Thats the thing to say.
If you are actively looking for a relationship, it might be useful to think about your flirting preferances. And talk to good friends about them. You never know if they know someone...
Actively reaching out works like a miracle.

Flirting is kind of hard for me to tell the truth. On my best day when I'm feeling my most confident, I still worry that I don't even sound like a real person. It doesn't help that I tend when I'm drawn to someone, it's usually because their voice, their eyes, or their sense of humor. So any flirting "preference" for me is more like just encouraging them to keep talking.

Even though I feel like I've turned a corner with my mental health, and I am getting better, I'm still not sure if I'm relationship material. I've felt like I might be too badly broken to ever love or be loved for years now. It's really only recently that I'm starting to internalize the idea that I might deserve to be happy. So I'm honestly not sure that I'm ready for a romantic partnership yet.

[Rydiro]

Even though I feel like I've turned a corner with my mental health, and I am getting better, I'm still not sure if I'm relationship material. I've felt like I might be too badly broken to ever love or be loved for years now. It's really only recently that I'm starting to internalize the idea that I might deserve to be happy. So I'm honestly not sure that I'm ready for a romantic partnership yet.Then you are probably not ready ... yet.
Anyway, once you are doing fine by yourself, getting into and maintaining a relationship both takes effort. Since you have to offer the other person something.

[LaZodiac]

Every so often I read an empowerment thing like "you don't owe it to anyone to pass, or the way vocal feminization makes you speak is unnatural" and I feel really bad, because I WANT to pass as a quote unquote Real Girl, and I know I don't have to, but I want to, and I'm worried that that's the wrong behavior to have.

Thoughts?

[DataNinja]

I don't feel like it's a bad way to feel - you just want to be seen as you, not with a caveat of "oh, you're trans." Given that, the way things are today, that will almost certainly cause at least a significant fraction of people to fixate on that. So you end up being judged in part as a category, not a person. Which is very much something that's understandable to want to avoid.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Every so often I read an empowerment thing like "you don't owe it to anyone to pass, or the way vocal feminization makes you speak is unnatural" and I feel really bad, because I WANT to pass as a quote unquote Real Girl, and I know I don't have to, but I want to, and I'm worried that that's the wrong behavior to have.

Thoughts?

While I don't think I've read any articles like that myself, I've seen similar ones on the Real GayTM debate in the gay community, so let me analogize for a moment and you can see if this kind of sounds familiar.

Basically, there's a bit of a philosophical divide between the "straight-passing" guys and the "flamboyant" guys (also phrased as "straight-acting" vs. "stereotypical", "masc" vs. "fem", or the like, but there are really no good non-pejorative ways to label either one). Some guys are naturally straight-passing, think that's a good thing, and feel that Real GaysTM should act like that to "be normal" because gay people are just like straight people; some guys are naturally straight-passing, don't think that's a good thing, and do what they can to actively play into the stereotypes because they feel that's what Real GaysTM are like and feel left out of the gay community otherwise; some guys are naturally flamboyant, think that's a good thing, and feel that Real GaysTM shouldn't try to integrate into "straight society" because gay culture is freeing and worth preserving; some guys are naturally flamboyant, think that's not a good thing, and do what they can to suppress their natural behavior because they feel that Real GaysTM in [current year] should be like everyone else and want to fit in.

So you see all sorts of articles along the lines of "You don't owe it to anyone to 'act straight'!" written from the flamboyant perspective and "You don't owe it to anyone to put on a 'gay accent'!" written from the straight-passing perspective, because they're targeting the guys who are in one group and feel pressured to act like the other. You don't tend to see many articles along the lines of "It's fine to be gay and like sports!" and "It's fine to be gay and like drag!" because those are often viewed as defensive or performative or whatever, and also simply because guys who feel comfortable in their own skin don't tend to write articles about it. And that's unfortunate, because someone who is straight-passing and likes it but reads a lot of "it's okay to be flamboyant" articles, or someone who is flamboyant and likes it but reads a lot of "it's okay to be straight-passing" articles, might get the impression that Real GaysTM are the opposite of them and they shouldn't feel fine with how they are.

Which is all to say, when it comes to passing (physically, or socially, or culturally, or whatever), there are no wrong options! If you do pass and are happy about that, that's fine; if you don't pass and wish you did, that's fine; if you don't pass and are happy about that, that's fine; if you do pass and wish you didn't, that's fine. If you see an "empowerment" article that aligns with what you want to do, use it as a pick-me-up and take its message to heart; if you see one that doesn't align with what you want to do, don't see it as a commentary on your worthiness as a Real [Anything], but rather realize that it's aimed at people who feel insecure in their own different goals and shouldn't make you feel insecure in your own goals. Because the whole point of empowerment is to empower you, as you are and want to be.

[Thufir]

Every so often I read an empowerment thing like "you don't owe it to anyone to pass, or the way vocal feminization makes you speak is unnatural" and I feel really bad, because I WANT to pass as a quote unquote Real Girl, and I know I don't have to, but I want to, and I'm worried that that's the wrong behavior to have.

Thoughts?

While some people might take it further, I think the majority of concerned people would agree that such a thing could be better phrased "You don't owe it to anyone else to pass." If you want to pass, then you should try to, because that's what you want - you might choose to say you owe it to yourself. The point should be that you don't have to conform to standards set by other people, but you should be free to set your own, wherever they happen to fall.

[The Fury]

Then you are probably not ready ... yet.
Anyway, once you are doing fine by yourself, getting into and maintaining a relationship both takes effort. Since you have to offer the other person something.

I largely agree. And I am aware that any kind of relationship does take effort. Even platonic friendships, and I do try. Ever since I started having better mental health, I'm more accepting of the idea that people might like me rather than tolerate me. I've started to feel like maybe I do have something good to offer. I'm not sure what it is, I was never good at seeing my strengths, but I might have something.


Every so often I read an empowerment thing like "you don't owe it to anyone to pass, or the way vocal feminization makes you speak is unnatural" and I feel really bad, because I WANT to pass as a quote unquote Real Girl, and I know I don't have to, but I want to, and I'm worried that that's the wrong behavior to have.

Thoughts?

Hm. Well, you're evidently not imaginary, so I'm pretty sure that makes you a real girl.

Jokes aside, I feel like I should put my cards on the table, I'm not trans. For that reason, I don't feel like I can claim to be any kind of expert on a trans experience. I'll try my best to be helpful though.

Maybe you don't owe it to present in a certain way just to make anyone else comfortable. But what do you want for yourself? Maybe you don't have to "pass" but you're not wrong for wanting to. In the end, you have to do what's best for yourself and only you has any idea of what that is.

[LaZodiac]

Thanks guys. That really helped a lot.

It's just hard sometimes. I want to pass... and to some people I DO, but I want to pass To Me, which seems pretty difficult.

[DataNinja]

Thanks guys. That really helped a lot.

It's just hard sometimes. I want to pass... and to some people I DO, but I want to pass To Me, which seems pretty difficult.

You're your own worst critic. In writing. In art. In anything. It's just a fundamental truth of being human - you see what you set out to do, to make. You see all the flaws, where you failed to live up to your intentions. Others simply see the results.

[Themrys]

Thanks guys. That really helped a lot.

It's just hard sometimes. I want to pass... and to some people I DO, but I want to pass To Me, which seems pretty difficult.

How does that work? You know you are a "real girl" so why would you have to prove that to yourself? I cannot quite wrap my brain around it.

I mean, I know that feeling when I look in the mirror and don't look at all how I would like to look, but then, I can still see that's me, just with circles under my eyes and pimples. (And then I tend to solve that problem by walking away from the mirror and distracting myself by doing something that's nothing to do with my looks and doesn't require me to be near mirrors. I guess I still have to work on my self esteem, but for now, it works.)

Love yourself. Be kind to yourself. You can't always influence what other people do and say, but you can always choose to be kind to yourself and accept yourself just as you are.

[DataNinja]

How does that work? You know you are a "real girl" so why would you have to prove that to yourself? I cannot quite wrap my brain around it.

Logic and emotions aren't always the same. You might know you are, in your head, but don't necessarily feel it. You want to see you as your ideal, not someone who reminds you of the mask you wore. That's what it seems to me, at least.

[King539]

Just came out as nonbinary over Instagram. Feeling stressed but hopeful.

[137beth]

Just came out as nonbinary over Instagram. Feeling stressed but hopeful.

Congratulations on that step.:smallwink:

[King539]

Congratulations on that step.:smallwink:

It's been great! My family and friends have been super supportive, and even people who I thought would be kinda queerphobic have been nice!

[BisectedBrioche]

It's been quite a long time since I posted in these fora (unless you count trying to post literally when the forums went down. Everyone thought I was a guy at the time (I think; I might have come out as NB before then, but I came out as a woman after that).

I've spent the last decade transitioning while working retail, which wasn't great (although it could have been worse), but it means I can wear my hair like my favourite video game character now, so it's all good.

Also, question: Do I have to set my gender as MtF to the left there, or is just F OK?

[catagent101]

In response to your question: yup, just F is okay and no you don't have to set it to MtF. Both are (like the gender marker itself) options, not requirements. Choose whichever one best suits you.

[Eldest]

Also, question: Do I have to set my gender as MtF to the left there, or is just F OK?

Up to you. Some people do, some people don't.

[BisectedBrioche]

In response to your question: yup, just F is okay and no you don't have to set it to MtF. Both are (like the gender marker itself) options, not requirements. Choose whichever one best suits you.


Up to you. Some people do, some people don't.

Aight, thanks!

Back when I was last active there was only an M and F option. Definitely a step up, anyway. :smallwink: